How to turn opticor vandal from average to GODLY

[17inchguns]

hace 2 minutos, Zeclem dijo:

if you go full damage on both, opticor will be worthless in any actual gameplay but vandal will be very much top tier. and its not just "paper dps" its actually a massive loss on its usability, especially when you consider that anybody who counts in rivens in a balance discussion should be reminded that rivens arent a point in balance. and even then, 9 shots on vandal is faster than 2 shots on an opticor. 

You dont go full damage on opticor out of choice. You can if you want and as a result you do get the feel of an opticor. You dont have that option with vandal...I already said, if you put fire rate mods on opticor its it's practically the same gameplay wise as the vandal (slight stat variation). Vandal without the unique neg puncture riven will never be top tier. Other weapons are far better at that role and it just feels like a status ferrox, not a opticor (a interesting niche weapon, 1 shot 1 kill)

[Zeclem]

19 minutes ago, 17inchguns said:

You dont go full damage on opticor out of choice. You can if you want and as a result you do get the feel of an opticor. You dont have that option with vandal...I already said, if you put fire rate mods on opticor its it's practically the same gameplay wise as the vandal (slight stat variation). Vandal without the unique neg puncture riven will never be top tier. Other weapons are far better at that role and it just feels like a status ferrox, not a opticor (a interesting niche weapon, 1 shot 1 kill)

its not a matter of "gameplay feel" tho, its a matter of numbers. vandal has more dps without counting in the supplementary stat changes which only widen the gap, which means it will kill singular targets faster by that amount. and on top of that its infinitely better at handling trash mob crowds as well. and yes, ofc they will have the same feel. opticor vandal is a variant of opticor lol.

and opticor vandal is also infinitely better than ferrox, again, by numbers and modding options. not "feel" or rivens. and it is very much top tier, for it can easily handle any kind of content you use it at without any real effort, without any stupid riven that kills its damage for slash procs that are massively overrated and only truly strong in simulacrum. 

Edited March 24, 2019 by Zeclem

[17inchguns]

hace 2 minutos, Zeclem dijo:

its not a matter of "gameplay feel" tho, its a matter of numbers. vandal has more dps without counting in the supplementary stat changes which only widen the gap, which means it will kill singular targets faster by that amount. and on top of that its infinitely better at handling trash mob crowds as well. and yes, ofc they will have the same feel. opticor vandal is a variant of opticor lol.

and opticor vandal is also infinitely better than ferrox, again, by numbers and modding options. not "feel" or rivens.

Infiniteley better at handling trash mobs? Vandal fires slightly faster than the regular opticor with fire rate, but not to the point of "infinitely better". The only excuse would be if you aren't adding the fire rate mod, regardless, for trash mobs there are way better substitutes (amprex, ignis, catchmoon etc). If you are using opticor for trash mobs your doing it wrong. 

You arent listening to what I am saying. Ive tested both and after testing (vandal vs fire rate opticor) there was little difference in feeling or performance. Both without riven. In simulacrum this is also reflected, time to kill was practically the same. 

If you want to try and proove me wrong you are welcome, but im going to need evidence other than paper dps (ie a video) 

[Zeclem]

25 minutes ago, 17inchguns said:

Infiniteley better at handling trash mobs? Vandal fires slightly faster than the regular opticor with fire rate, but not to the point of "infinitely better". The only excuse would be if you aren't adding the fire rate mod, regardless, for trash mobs there are way better substitutes (amprex, ignis, catchmoon etc). If you are using opticor for trash mobs your doing it wrong. 

You arent listening to what I am saying. Ive tested both and after testing (vandal vs fire rate opticor) there was little difference in feeling or performance. Both without riven. In simulacrum this is also reflected, time to kill was practically the same. 

If you want to try and proove me wrong you are welcome, but im going to need evidence other than paper dps (ie a video) 

by putting in those fire rate mods you are losing precious mod slots that could be used for damage, so yes, its infinitely better that you have to make up for it. and no, theres absolutely nothing wrong with using opticor for trash mobs, ignis isnt exactly better than opticor v in that regard. 

what tests? the ones in the video that were laughably trash and badly made? im sorry but numbers>simulacrum. its simple as that. i dont need to provide a video for basic math. and point of balance is not level 300 enemies, cus if it was, any gun that wasnt named tigris prime would be trash. 

Edited March 24, 2019 by Zeclem

[17inchguns]

hace 7 minutos, Zeclem dijo:

by putting in those fire rate mods you are losing precious mod slots that could be used for damage, so yes, its infinitely better that you have to make up for it. and no, theres absolutely nothing wrong with using opticor for trash mobs, ignis isnt exactly better than opticor v in that regard. 

what tests? the ones in the video that were laughably trash and badly made? im sorry but numbers>simulacrum. its simple as that. i dont need to provide a video for basic math. 

If you actually compared both, side to side you would see how wrong you are. Since you arent prepared to listen and wont test it yourself take Ksilisabs recent opticor video time 6:26. 

Im sorry but if you say ignis isnt better than the opticor vandal for trash mobs I cant take you seriously any more. 

Not sure what video you are calling trash and badly made, its easy to criticise when you have none to show for. All standard riven testers/ gun testers use simulacrum to test and corrupted to show toughest case. Its easy to criticise without having any videos of your own, but if you do atleast provide feedback. 

Simulacrum plus testing in regular gameplay>>> numbers. 

[Zeclem]

24 minutes ago, 17inchguns said:

If you actually compared both, side to side you would see how wrong you are. Since you arent prepared to listen and wont test it yourself take Ksilisabs recent opticor video time 6:26. 

i did test it myself, and i did compared their numbers both, side by side. and again, another comparison video with a riven. how suprising. oh and a riven with a fire rate roll on it that could be used for other things!

Quote

Im sorry but if you say ignis isnt better than the opticor vandal for trash mobs I cant take you seriously any more. 

yes. it isnt. ignis wraith can be, but normal ignis just isnt. and even the wraith doesnt have the pure crit damage potential that opticor vandal has, nor its range or ammo economy. not everybody uses carrier. 

Quote

Not sure what video you are calling trash and badly made, its easy to criticise when you have none to show for. All standard riven testers/ gun testers use simulacrum to test and corrupted to show toughest case. Its easy to criticise without having any videos of your own, but if you do atleast provide feedback. 

the one you put up in the op is what im calling trash, cus none of the actual gameplay balance is made around those levels nor in those conditions. and i did already provide these feedback

Quote

Simulacrum plus testing in regular gameplay>>> numbers. 

"regular" what. again, what? theres nothing "regular" about cheesing a two hour survival with cc. cus if it was, suprise suprise, %99 of the weapons would be trash and useless. 

and any actual minmaxer would laugh at the statement that simulacrum>>numbers. show me one factual information that with the same rivenless build, that opticor vandal wont have more kills. and you can only do that with numbers. only "evidence" you have provided is anectodal. 

honestly this just isnt even worth replying to.

Edited March 24, 2019 by Zeclem

[Sharkgoblin]

what about something more spicier: lower charge rate to 0.60 to 0.20 and make it fully automatic and maybe magazine size from 8 to 16 shots. 

[nslay]

4 hours ago, 17inchguns said:

I would never take it for high lvl content, unless neg puncture riven. To put things into perspective, even with a cd cc ms riven in simulacrum it took way too long to kill a 160, it just cant proc slash consistently because of puncture.

Why not put Argon Scope and Hunter Munitions on it? It's a workaround, but you should be able to get more slashes that way.

[17inchguns]

hace 31 minutos, Sharkgoblin dijo:

what about something more spicier: lower charge rate to 0.60 to 0.20 and make it fully automatic and maybe magazine size from 8 to 16 shots. 

Been done and ive tried myself. Not my thing. Very low damage. Its turning it into something it wasn't designed to be and it shows since there are far superior alternatives that arent as clunky and more efficient. Its funny for 5 minutes as a meme gun but thats about it

[17inchguns]

hace 6 minutos, nslay dijo:

Why not put Argon Scope and Hunter Munitions on it? It's a workaround, but you should be able to get more slashes that way.

I tried it with a cc cd ms riven with several builds, including a hunters one. In order to get consistent slashes you want the neg puncture. Also, that argon scope has to take the space of something and its already a very tight build. 

Not a bad idea (i gave it a try myself) but its not the best option 

[nslay]

22 minutes ago, 17inchguns said:

I tried it with a cc cd ms riven with several builds, including a hunters one. In order to get consistent slashes you want the neg puncture. Also, that argon scope has to take the space of something and its already a very tight build. 

Not a bad idea (i gave it a try myself) but its not the best option 

But when you reduce your base damage via the -puncture damage, you are reducing Opticor Vandal's overall damage even though you're rightly trying to make Slash shine. If you have a Riven that provides similar or more CHC as Argon Scope as well as lots of multi-shot, then I would guess the Hunter Munitions will really shine more than trying to persuade Opticor Vandal to dish out its own innate slash damage.

EDIT: Yeah, the Hunter Munitions will tick in the tens of thousands. I see your video only showing some thousand per tick. That's probably because you reduced the weapon's biggest damage type to make it more likely to proc Slash.

EDIT2: Yeah, I don't know. I tried with Hunter Munitions and I get a mixed bag of slash procs like your video. So no idea how Hunter Munitions applies slash. Thought it was some percentage of your overall damage since it will apply Slash even if your weapon doesn't have any Slash to begin with!

Edited March 24, 2019 by nslay

[(PSN)cleefsentence]

I like the vandal more than the normal version but i have a good riven to boost the dmg.

ps. the glaxion is a beast with a riven (i have one electricity toxin cd and it shreds 3/4 corrupted heavy/bombards lvl. 155 before the reload, hope to see a vandal version with more cc).

Edited March 24, 2019 by (PS4)cleefsentence

[17inchguns]

hace 53 minutos, nslay dijo:

But when you reduce your base damage via the -puncture damage, you are reducing Opticor Vandal's overall damage even though you're rightly trying to make Slash shine. If you have a Riven that provides similar or more CHC as Argon Scope as well as lots of multi-shot, then I would guess the Hunter Munitions will really shine more than trying to persuade Opticor Vandal to dish out its own innate slash damage.

EDIT: Yeah, the Hunter Munitions will tick in the tens of thousands. I see your video only showing some thousand per tick. That's probably because you reduced the weapon's biggest damage type to make it more likely to proc Slash.

The value may be affected due to enemy type and lvl. Against the 160 chg im getting 38k slashes which isnt "some thousand" if you check. In sortie/lvl 120 it deals insane slash damages if it doesent 1 shot, at higher difficulty its a different story. 

The hunters has a 30% chance to proc and feeds off damage multipliers 

Edited March 24, 2019 by 17inchguns

[Benour]

Cause bleeds from innate slash are just to low, if you want "proper" slash you need hunters munitions. My normal opticor does 35k bleeds vs 17k on opticorV iirc, thats on lvl 160CHG. So if you want riven + firerate mod + HM on normal opticor you need element on riven (or firerate but then you missing on  dmg) or you simply wont have enough mod slots.

On the other hand opticorV has this nice firerate as base so you can use ANY riven on it and just slap HM on and you set. OR and thats what i do (got toxin on riven) i use HM AND vile acceleration same time.  So yeah you proc different slashes/bleeds, one from innate IPS and one from HM. 

But still thats NOTHING compared to rubico prime with HM that thing is dirty with god riven. Or try Gas/HM lanka or vulkarV (both can do like 50k bleeds,) but thats for another topic!

[Ikyr0]

6 hours ago, 17inchguns said:

Lvl 150 isn't high lvl content for me, but regardless, corpus are very weak, even more so if modded with gas, it won't indicate a weapons potential tbh. My catchmoon can 1 shot lvl 160 corpus but it falls off at high lvl content and wont scale.

I disagree with the "any riven can make a weapon godly". Plenty of weapons out there that cant be fixed, no matter what riven, even fewer which can be turned into a 1 shot monster that scales amazingly at high level.

I'd just like to point out that most people right now aren't really fighting high level Grineer units in the first place. Have you grinded toroids in OV against lvl 135 OV Corpus? They're actually a lot tougher than any Grineer on the star chart. The OV Corpus don't even compare to vanilla Corpus. They probably have double the HP, and a bunch more robotic units. 

I guess what I'm trying to say is you're measuring a weapon against content that 99% of the player base doesn't do right now (the high level and the faction), using a particular riven (which most don't have access to); while calling the gun bad against most of the content that players do. I'm just emphasizing the gun without the riven is great for most content. 

Edited March 24, 2019 by Ikyr0

[17inchguns]

hace 2 minutos, Ikyr0 dijo:

I'd just like to point out that most people right now aren't really fighting high level Grineer units in the first place. Have you grinded toroids in OV against lvl 135 OV Corpus? They're actually a lot tougher than any Grineer on the star chart. 

How is a lvl 135 ov corpus stronger than a grineer equivalent? My catchmoon 1 shots lvl 160 elite terra trenchers easily, same cant be said for a 160 heavy gunner/bombard. Corpus are far weaker than grineer, its a known fact man

[(XBOX)Salty Ginger]

Can`t wait to try it out! Only 40 more to go! 🤗

[Ikyr0]

9 minutes ago, 17inchguns said:

How is a lvl 135 ov corpus stronger than a grineer equivalent? My catchmoon 1 shots lvl 160 elite terra trenchers easily, same cant be said for a 160 heavy gunner/bombard. Corpus are far weaker than grineer, its a known fact man

but i'm not doing Simulacrum warrioring. the faction as a whole is stronger, with way more robotics, CC, and bubbles that vanilla Corpus. lvl 135 Grineer are a joke in comparison. they do nothing but waddle forward while shooting occasionally. and can be one-shot by a bunch of stuff without stripping armor even. like with a non-riven'd Tombfinger for example. as I said, no one right now is doing Grineer survivals so your example is kinda moot for most people, and u can't call the gun bad without riven for 99% of the game's content. that's all im saying. but I understand your topic is for very specific content and i'm getting off topic, so carry on. 

Edited March 24, 2019 by Ikyr0

[xXIcyBladeXx]

I like the way it shoots. 

[Loza03]

24 minutes ago, xXIcyBladeXx said:

I like the way it shoots. 

Can't lie. Having experienced both, they both have their own niche. When I first picked it up, it did feel a little hollow (charge-up of the Regular just fills me with this unmatched glee which Vandal doesn't provide), but rapid-fire artillery blasts into oncoming hordes are still very satisfying.

[17inchguns]

hace 35 minutos, Ikyr0 dijo:

but i'm not doing Simulacrum warrioring. the faction as a whole is stronger, with way more robotics, CC, and bubbles that vanilla Corpus. lvl 135 Grineer are a joke in comparison. they do nothing but waddle forward while shooting occasionally. and can be one-shot by a bunch of stuff without stripping armor even. like with a non-riven'd Tombfinger for example. as I said, no one right now is doing Grineer survivals so your example is kinda moot for most people, and u can't call the gun bad without riven for 99% of the game's content. that's all im saying. but I understand your topic is for very specific content and i'm getting off topic, so carry on. 

By strong I mean hp and armour wise, the damage potential from each faction is another story.

Nobody doing grineer survival? You must not do kuvival then. Kuva survival 2+ hours on a regular means I get more exposure to high lvl grineer than orb v guys which I dont farm since I just do profit taker for standing much quicker when and if I need to. 

[Ikyr0]

7 minutes ago, 17inchguns said:

By strong I mean hp and armour wise, the damage potential from each faction is another story.

Nobody doing grineer survival? You must not do kuvival then. Kuva survival 2+ hours on a regular means I get more exposure to high lvl grineer than orb v guys which I dont farm since I just do profit taker for standing much quicker when and if I need to. 

yeah, like Corpus are way more threatening in the higher levels than Grineer because they can turn off your 90% DR and smoke you. We need OV Corpus survivals, but that would make too many people cry. 

Nah man you don't need a riven on the Vandal for 1-2hr kuva survival. Bit of armor stripping, and that's it. 

[(PSN)thefallenloser]

People are still talking about this?

You don't need to OnE ShoT with the Opticor Vandal because its DPS overall is greater than that of the Opticor's.

Rivens can make anything better. OV is way better than average, by the way. Just learn how to mod. Unless for some reason you think not being able to one-shot level 150+ enemies automatically makes the weapon bad.

[Sharkgoblin]

On 2019-03-24 at 4:04 PM, 17inchguns said:

Been done and ive tried myself. Not my thing. Very low damage. Its turning it into something it wasn't designed to be and it shows since there are far superior alternatives that arent as clunky and more efficient. Its funny for 5 minutes as a meme gun but thats about it

but if opticor vandal would have been like i wrote in my previous post, you wouldn't need fire rate mods and arcanes + macro to make it fully automatic, meaning that you would using the regular opticor vandal build rather than the meme one, but its understandable that opticor people wanted well...an opticor

[Lutesque]

LoL.... don't have Riven so this doesn't help me.

I like this Rifle but goodlord the 60% Crit chance really hurts this weapon. 

I've been using Prisma Grinlok instead. Its got 94% Crit chance so atleast its easier to plan my play style around if I know exactly how much damage im going to do.