Saryn - Queen of Disaster - A rework that doesnt kill her

[DarkRuler2500]

With her rework Saryn‘s power reached to unknown heights, the spores would annihilate entire waves without the squad having to fire a single shot. It robbed allies of their opportunity to fight. What would happen? Either the player would go afk, he would leave at the next opportunity or he would run off into other areas of the map to have some fun on his own. Of course these scenarios are a bit exaggerated but should just serve to point out what Saryn‘s main issue is.

Saryn needs not a straight nerf but a proper redesign!

The team of Digital Extremes had quickly discovered that the original reworked Saryn was way too strong as her scaling broke all charts. Thus they limited the scaling but in return added a function to preserve some damage over time. Still, Saryn is by far the most potent damage frames currently in the game because it does not matter to limit the increase-gain if there is no limit to the top at all.

Do not get my wrong, I am a Saryn-player and I love the feeling of nuking the enemies but I am far away from just spamming Spores and Miasma as I enjoy the whole kit. So I would like to present a concept that would shift her damage properties to her other skills and it would also make her kit a bit less „nuking without thinking“, as right now one spore is easily sustained forever in a crowded area (e.g. Elite Sanctuary Onslaught).

Abilities

Please note that X is a variable, I use to show a number that ought to be determined by Digital Extremes as I am not perfectly sure about which values might be considered balanced.

• Contagion

  • NEW: Instead of having limitless numbers the passive ability orb that now shows the damage cap will be reworked to a 0% to 100% orb. At zero percent it could look like a fossilized infested orb. And at 100% energy-coloured gas could emit from it.

• Spores

  • CHANGE: Remove all damage from the ability but instead makes it a guaranteed corrosive proc at all times. Each successful proc will charge the Contagion passive by 1%.

  • NEW: Allows the Spore to be casted on the Molt will induce a chemical reaction within the Molt. It will quickly deteriorate and then deal its original explosion damage to enemies in the area.

  • NEW: Each time a spored enemy is killed by an attack while Toxic Lash was active, will grant a +5% bonus to the Contagion passive.

• Molt

  • NEW: For each % of Contagion the ability efficiency is increased by 0,5%. So if you were to cast the Molt at 100% Contagion it would cost half. At the same time one third of the current points will be destroyed at that time.

  • NEW: Damaging the Molt with Viral, Gas or Toxin damage will manually increase its maximum health points and thus the dealth damage upon explosion. It will not restore already lost health to its current health. Consider it as a stationary Antimatter Drop that you can charge and then either manually detonate, detonate by expiring or by bursing it with your spores.

• Toxic Lash

  • NEW: For each % of Contagion the ability strength is increased by 1%. At 100% Contagion it would increase the toxin-enhancement by 100%. At the same time half your current points will be destroyed.

  • NEW: Additionally to the already existing blocking-enhancement, Toxic Lash will also add a small toxin burst in a 5 meter area around Saryn whenever she succesfully blocks an attack. The toxin damage considered for the proc-calculation is based on the damage previously blocked.

  • CHANGE: Contagion Cloud-augment should be slightly revisisted too. Instead of just creating clouds with flat toxin damage upon kill, the clouds should behave similar to Chroma‘s 2nd ability and destroy X% of enemy max life per second.

• Miasma

  • NEW: For each % of Contagion the ability duration is increased by 2%. At 100% Contagion it would cause the Viral proc and the stun to last much longer. At the same time all of your current Contagion points will be destroyed.

  • NEW: Enemies killed during Miasma‘s duration have a small change to burst similar to Acid Shells and deal X% of their maximum life to all enemies in their perimeter als viral damage.

  • NEW: While Miasma lasts on an enemy any toxin, gas, corrosive or viral proc from others will not run out. Of course this does not apply to Miasma itself.

  • NEW: Casting Miasma while Molt is out will first double the Molts current health/damage and then manually detonate her in 1,5x the normal radius.

If you read till this point, thanks for reading. I would really love reading your feedback.

Greetings
DarkRuler

Edited April 1, 2019 by DarkRuler2500

[CreamedSoda]

12 minutes ago, DarkRuler2500 said:

With her rework Saryn‘s power reached to unknown heights, the spores would annihilate entire waves without the squad having to fire a single shot. It robbed allies of their opportunity to fight. What would happen? Either the player would go afk, he would leave at the next opportunity or he would run off into other areas of the map to have some fun on his own. Of course these scenarios are a bit exaggerated but should just serve to point out what Saryn‘s main issue is.

Saryn needs not a straight nerf but a proper redesign!

The team of Digital Extremes had quickly discovered that the original reworked Saryn was way too strong as her scaling broke all charts. Thus they limited the scaling but in return added a function to preserve some damage over time. Still, Saryn is by far the most potent damage frames currently in the game because it does not matter to limit the increase-gain if there is no limit to the top at all.

Do not get my wrong, I am a Saryn-player and I love the feeling of nuking the enemies but I am far away from just spamming Spores and Miasma as I enjoy the whole kit. So I would like to present a concept that would shift her damage properties to her other skills and it would also make her kit a bit less „nuking without thinking“, as right now one spore is easily sustained forever in a crowded area (e.g. Elite Sanctuary Onslaught).

Abilities

Please note that X is a variable, I use to show a number that ought to be determined by Digital Extremes as I am not perfectly sure about which values might be considered balanced.

• Contagion

  • NEW: Instead of having limitless numbers the passive ability orb that now shows the damage cap will be reworked to a 0% to 100% orb. At zero percent it could look like a fossilized infested orb. And at 100% energy-coloured gas could emit from it.

• Spores

  • CHANGE: Remove all damage from the ability but instead makes it a guaranteed corrosive proc at all times. Each successful proc will charge the Contagion passive by 1%.

  • NEW: Allows the Spore to be casted on the Molt will induce a chemical reaction within the Molt. It will quickly deteriorate and then deal its original explosion damage to enemies in the area.

  • NEW: Each time a spored enemy is killed by an attack while Toxic Lash was active, will grant a +5% bonus to the Contagion passive.

• Molt

  • NEW: For each % of Contagion the ability efficiency is increased by 0,5%. So if you were to cast the Molt at 100% Contagion it would cost half. At the same time one third of the current points will be destroyed at that time.

  • NEW: Damaging the Molt with Viral, Gas or Toxin damage will manually increase its maximum health points and thus the dealth damage upon explosion. It will not restore already lost health to its current health. Consider it as a stationary Antimatter Drop that you can charge and then either manually detonate, detonate by expiring or by bursing it with your spores.

• Toxic Lash

  • NEW: For each % of Contagion the ability strength is increased by 1%. At 100% Contagion it would increase the toxin-enhancement by 100%. At the same time half your current points will be destroyed.

  • NEW: Additionally to the already existing blocking-enhancement, Toxic Lash will also add a small toxin burst in a 5 meter area around Saryn whenever she succesfully blocks an attack. The toxin damage considered for the proc-calculation is based on the damage previously blocked.

  • CHANGE: Contagion Cloud-augment should be slightly revisisted too. Instead of just creating clouds with flat toxin damage upon kill, the clouds should behave similar to Chroma‘s 2nd ability and destroy X% of enemy max life per second.

• Miasma

  • NEW: For each % of Contagion the ability duration is increased by 2%. At 100% Contagion it would cause the Viral proc and the stun to last much longer. At the same time all of your current Contagion points will be destroyed.

  • NEW: Enemies killed during Miasma‘s duration have a small change to burst similar to Acid Shells and deal X% of their maximum life to all enemies in their perimeter als viral damage.

  • NEW: While Miasma lasts on an enemy any toxin, gas, corrosive or viral proc from others will not run out. Of course this does not apply to Miasma itself.

  • NEW: Casting Miasma while Molt is out will first double the Molts current health/damage and then manually detonate her in 1,5x the normal radius.

If you read till this point, thanks for reading. I would really love reading your feedback.

Greetings
DarkRuler

I can see you put a lot of effort into this and this is probably a coincidence but all you really did was slap a nidus mechanic on saryn. This isn't really a rework, more of a "Time gate saryn so she has to give her teammates a full 15 seconds of fun before she starts again."

I'd really rather just see her get a nerf instead, not like she doesn't have room for one. (Not to mention that they nerfed Banshees quake despite it being nowhere near as bad as saryn)

Edited April 1, 2019 by Whitestrake0

[DarkRuler2500]

 

vor 1 Minute schrieb Whitestrake0:

I can see you put a lot of effort into this and this is probably a coincidence but all you really did was slap a nidus mechanic on saryn. This isn't really a rework, more of a "Time gate saryn so she has to give her teammates a full 15 seconds of fun before she starts again." 

I think we are having a misunderstanding here.

1. The scaling mechanic is already inside the game and the spores do already increase the spores overall damage.
2. The Contagion reduction upon Molt/Toxic Lash/Miasma cast is not going to stop gathering more counters. As long as there are infected you will have a continuous growth of counters. So if you are infecting an entire room your counters will be stable after a few seconds have passed already even when depleting half your points for a toxic lash.

As for Banshee 4? It was worse as its damage was lower and it even pushed enemies back into their spawn rooms. This was leading to a scenario where enemies would not even enter the area of combat.

[CreamedSoda]

1 minute ago, DarkRuler2500 said:

 

I think we are having a misunderstanding here.

1. The scaling mechanic is already inside the game and the spores do already increase the spores overall damage.
2. The Contagion reduction upon Molt/Toxic Lash/Miasma cast is not going to stop gathering more counters. As long as there are infected you will have a continuous growth of counters. So if you are infecting an entire room your counters will be stable after a few seconds have passed already even when depleting half your points for a toxic lash.

As for Banshee 4? It was worse as its damage was lower and it even pushed enemies back into their spawn rooms. This was leading to a scenario where enemies would not even enter the area of combat.

1. What exactly makes the contagion mechanic different? Just seems like a worse version of what she already has.

2. Yeah now that I look over it this isn't a rework its just a straight up nerf as she is way weaker and pretty much has no damage capability. This is far too changing from what her original design is.

Also I am talking about resonating quake, they nerfed it cause ember reasons

[DarkRuler2500]

vor einer Stunde schrieb Whitestrake0:

1. What exactly makes the contagion mechanic different? Just seems like a worse version of what she already has.

a) It utilizes the Spores to enhance the other abilities considerably
b) It gets rid of the massive damage that Saryn currently causes and that reduces allies' fun in missions
c) You can cast your abilities with or without sufficient Contagion. If you do it with enough Contagion though, you will get a benefit. This will reduce spamming of effects
 

 

vor einer Stunde schrieb Whitestrake0:

2. Yeah now that I look over it this isn't a rework its just a straight up nerf as she is way weaker and pretty much has no damage capability. This is far too changing from what her original design is.

She has plenty of damage utility. It just not "press 1 button and nuke everything around you" anymore. DE recently stated that they wanted to get rid of such playstyles anyway.

a) Her molt can be charged with viral/toxin into a massive local area damage that is equivalent to an Antimatter Drop. => Massive burst damage
Additionally said damage and the area effect can even be further enhanced when paired with miasma.
b) Her Miasma can force Gas/Viral and Toxin procs to stay active as long as the ability lasts which will increase the damage over time alot. => Damage over time damage
c) Her toxic lash augment can deal percentual damage that will scale greatly in late-game content => Scaling damage

So I really don't get how you believe that she does not have enough damage. Its just that the massive damage potential from her Spores was redistributed among the other three skills to enhance inter-ability-synergy.

Edited April 1, 2019 by DarkRuler2500

[LAD.Y]

27 minutes ago, DarkRuler2500 said:

a) It utilizes the Spores to enhance the other abilities considerably
b) It gets rid of the massive damage that Saryn currently causes and that reduces allies' fun in missions
c) You can cast your abilities with or without sufficient Contagion. If you do it with enough Contagion though, you will get a benefit. This will reduce spamming of effects
 

 

She has plenty of damage utility. It just not "press 1 button and nuke everything around you" anymore. DE recently stated that they wanted to get rid of such playstyles anyway.

a) Her molt can be charged with viral/toxin into a massive local area damage that is equivalent to an Antimatter Drop. => Massive burst damage
Additionally said damage and the area effect can even be further enhanced when paired with miasma.
b) Her Miasma can force Gas/Viral and Toxin procs to stay active as long as the ability lasts which will increase the damage over time alot. => Damage over time damage
c) Her toxic lash augment can deal percentual damage that will scale greatly in late-game content => Scaling damage

So I really don't get how you believe that she does not have enough damage. Its just that the massive damage potential from her Spores was redistributed among the other three skills to enhance inter-ability-synergy.

while I like the overall concept and am definitely for it, I also worry about how people will react to it. Like the other person in this thread, players who don't want to press more than 1  button at a time will see this simply as a nerf an rage to who knows what. But I do think this ida i actually really good and has a tonof potential

[DarkRuler2500]

vor 13 Minuten schrieb LAD.Y:

while I like the overall concept and am definitely for it, I also worry about how people will react to it. Like the other person in this thread, players who don't want to press more than 1  button at a time will see this simply as a nerf an rage to who knows what. But I do think this ida i actually really good and has a tonof potential

Well, those who are accustomed to being capable of destroying entire waves with a single ability, will most likely refuse to give up on this. However in return most of these abilities here got a drastic increase in potency and can be utilized in various more ways.

I really appreciate your positive comment 🙂

[LAD.Y]

12 minutes ago, DarkRuler2500 said:

Well, those who are accustomed to being capable of destroying entire waves with a single ability, will most likely refuse to give up on this. However in return most of these abilities here got a drastic increase in potency and can be utilized in various more ways.

I really appreciate your positive comment 🙂

yeah i see that. Saryn has plenty of nuking potential, it's just that you aren't doing it 1 or 2 ways. You have to work for it a little bit more. But even while you're building catagion for maximum potency it's  not like you aren't getting damage in other ways as well. 

[DarkRuler2500]

Gerade eben schrieb LAD.Y:

But even while you're building catagion for maximum potency it's  not like you aren't getting damage in other ways as well. 

Just one thing for addition: In my concept the Contagion build up is rather fast if you consider this.
for each tick you will get 1%. So if you have 20 people infected you will get 20% per second. Killing an enemy with Toxic Lash will even grant +5% additive. So its really easy to use the abiliies with "Contagion" bonus but you just have to put a little effort in it. Nothing much tbh

[LAD.Y]

2 minutes ago, DarkRuler2500 said:

Just one thing for addition: In my concept the Contagion build up is rather fast if you consider this.
for each tick you will get 1%. So if you have 20 people infected you will get 20% per second. Killing an enemy with Toxic Lash will even grant +5% additive. So its really easy to use the abiliies with "Contagion" bonus but you just have to put a little effort in it. Nothing much tbh

so that's like 5 seconds before a max miasma or something. Wow. Honestly I feel like some people might think thats too fast XD. I'm indifferent as a mostly solo CCplayer but i think this honestly is a great idea to move Saryn into

 

[Benour]

Saryn is just fine stop making conclusions cause somebody took her in lvl 15 missions and "ruined" your fun. She had many reworks and dont need any more. 

[DarkRuler2500]

vor 41 Minuten schrieb Benour:

Saryn is just fine stop making conclusions cause somebody took her in lvl 15 missions and "ruined" your fun. She had many reworks and dont need any more. 

Level 15? That's not really where she is strong. In those levels i doubt anyone is going to have issues.
I am talking about level 100+ where she can maintain spores and deal 2k damage per tick three rooms ahead.

 

vor 2 Stunden schrieb LAD.Y:

so that's like 5 seconds before a max miasma or something. Wow. Honestly I feel like some people might think thats too fast XD. I'm indifferent as a mostly solo CCplayer but i think this honestly is a great idea to move Saryn into

Remember that you have to maintain Molt, Toxic Lash and Miasma with your contagion at the same time. It might ramp up fast but you will also use it up fast in the heat of battle. Especially in higher-leveled content.

[Benour]

Woow 2k dmg per tick on enemy that has literally milions of EHP. Woooooooow... Yeah clearly OP. Kappa

[Test-995]

15 minutes ago, Benour said:

Woow 2k dmg per tick on enemy that has literally milions of EHP. Woooooooow... Yeah clearly OP. Kappa

And that's corrosive.

While i don't want to see any more saryn rework(aka.Nerf), i can confirm that she is OP.

 She has largest range and infinite damage scaling with extreme energy economy,  definitely a strongest nuke for now.

Edited April 1, 2019 by Test-995

[CreamedSoda]

8 hours ago, DarkRuler2500 said:

She has plenty of damage utility. It just not "press 1 button and nuke everything around you" anymore. DE recently stated that they wanted to get rid of such playstyles anyway.

 

Correction. She has two damage abilities and one of them is a small AoE that is the equivalent of well. Pissing distance.

Basically one damage ability that has to be built up and even then viral is a trash proc when it isn't combined with other status effects

[Guest]

At level 100, Sortie III

Outdpsed a Saryn Prime and two Mesa Primes using a Whipclaw Khora. I had 61% damage done and my kills were more than the Mesas + Saryn.

Get your butts out of ESO and 10 hour Hydron guys.

Saryn really needs no changes. If you want to spoil her fun in ESO just take Equinox.

Edited April 1, 2019 by Guest

[Birdframe_Prime]

Honestly speaking, as somebody that likes Saryn, but just as a friend, all I can say is just... why not let her be a powerful frame?

On low level you have an area spam ability that can get her through, on mid-level you can use her 3 to buff all the weapon damage to just run-and-gun through enemies, and on some specific places where the spawns are high and the damage is necessary, you have her 1 that will build up and tick over consistently if you farm it with her 3 and if you judiciously apply her 4.

She self-limits on most missions because you don't have the spawns to keep up the damage on her 1. But all of this really does need some specific modding. If you want Saryn to have truly armour-stripping Spores and massive damage on her 4, you have to build in for Strength in ways that doesn't affect the Duration of her 2, 3 and 4, and you also need enough enough Range to make it worth it. There are builds, but they're very much something you have to work on and perfect for yourself.

Saryn is allowed to be good at something, and if that something happens to be dealing a lot of damage radially, then that's not actually all that bad.

As long as the mechanics aren't using broken calculations, and as long as she's actively contributing to the mission, not hindering it, then what is the problem?

Warframe is a co-operative game. If the aim of a mission is to kill a bunch of enemies in waves in the most efficient way possible, and somebody happens to bring a frame that can kill lots of enemies in waves in an efficient manner, then everyone wins because the rewards for that mission are more attainable, more frequently.

If the mission is to stay alive for a long duration of time, based on how many pickups of a certain type you get, then nobody objects when a person brings a frame that increases the amount of chances to get those pickups. They actively encourage it.

Kills don't matter, not individually, damage doesn't matter individually either. If somebody wants to think that a big damage percentage means they have big everything else? Then that's just them being a sad, strange little person.

Just... let Saryn be good at what she does. I wish more frames were good at what they do in turn. Chroma's supposed to be good at buffing himself up with his abillities and dealing a large amount of damage as a result, and I wish he did that properly instead of everyone relying on just Vex Armour. Baruuk is supposed to have a 4th ability that pushes, pulls and lifts enemies, but instead it lifts and catapults them into the next room where he can't hit them anymore. Zephyr is supposed to be high-mobility, high survivability with potential damage through CC and Status dealing, but her mobility is incredibly limiting in enclosed spaces (anywhere that's not the open landscapes) and because of that her survivability suffers, while her CC and Status dealing are unreliable due to the type of CC she has.

So when it comes down to it, I don't think Saryn needs a change. I would like a powerful frame to stay powerful. Because we know what happens when DE gets in a nerfing mood. We've all seen Ember.

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

Unfortunately, In DE's recent message in the patch notes they've basically said they're not overly concerned with Power Creep anymore, and that they're letting it kill CC frames until further notice. Until they take a hard look at how to do a balance overhaul they're only worried about making sure powerful abilities require work instead of passive play.

The only change I'd really care about with Saryn is to make Spores not increase in damage. Just stay a low flat amount, since it's already easily spreadable and constantly procs the most useful proc for high level content, and it already boosts damage of her 4th.

[MJ12]

2 hours ago, (PS4)Riko_113 said:

Unfortunately, In DE's recent message in the patch notes they've basically said they're not overly concerned with Power Creep anymore, and that they're letting it kill CC frames until further notice. Until they take a hard look at how to do a balance overhaul they're only worried about making sure powerful abilities require work instead of passive play.

The only change I'd really care about with Saryn is to make Spores not increase in damage. Just stay a low flat amount, since it's already easily spreadable and constantly procs the most useful proc for high level content, and it already boosts damage of her 4th.

The spore damage increase is actually important because it's not only a method to ensure that Spores stay relevant damage-wise for all content, but it self-limits the ability of spores to spread. Outside of very high level content where you can easily hit the spore damage cap without issue, you will eventually reach a point where the damage is so high that you cannot sustain the spore spread anymore.

And honestly, in a PvE game, "game balance exists to ensure that people are engaged in the game" is a superior philosophy to "game balance exists because nothing can be better or worse than anything else."

[Birdframe_Prime]

13 hours ago, moostar95 said:

ember should not been nerfed then

What's your point? I agree with this statement. It's literally my statement. Was that too subtle?

Ember shouldn't have been nerfed to the point she is. She could have been reworked, since the community outcry was so severe, there were options.

Spoiler

A decent option proposed once, that I've adopted to preach to rework threads since, is the charge-up that was actually used on Harrow. The idea of a 10 second period where all Heat damage dealt out in that time contributes to a multiplier and then you get a short, but mod-able, period of the true World on Fire activity.

That would give Ember some serious wind-up and deploy, but would not be possible to spam through a whole mission without taking advantage of the build-up period to actually get it to do real damage.

Powerful, but not over powered.

But what has happened every. single. time that DE have found community outcry? Over nerfing.

That's why Mag doesn't have a proper Greedy Pull, that's why you now have to wave your mouse around in Mesa's Peacemaker, that's why Excalibur had his 4th ability so nerfed that it was completely replaced by Exalted Blade and it's now his worst ability, that's why Trinity has only ever been nerfed and never once functionally buffed.

I'm not saying that everything should be over-powered, I'm saying that constantly complaining about a frame being powerful (because Saryn is not actually over powered, she's right at the edge of it because of her limits, but not over that edge) will get that frame over-nerfed.

Let Saryn be powerful. It's not actually hurting anything in the game apart from a few people's perceptions of their masculinity.

[(PSN)thefallenloser]

5 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

It's not actually hurting anything in the game apart from a few people's perceptions of their masculinity.

Yikes to this last part. Completely unneeded and untrue. Girls can complain too!

But yeah, I'd rather not have Saryn nerfed. It will begin the cycle...

[Birdframe_Prime]

26 minutes ago, (PS4)ArtPrince17 said:

Girls can complain too!

That is true, but I've generally found that people who identify as female are far less confrontational about somebody else doing well in a co-op situation.

When there's competition, there'll be complaints from all sides towards somebody having an easy time of it, but in Warframe? A 4-person game PvE? Of all the people I've encountered that entirely genuinely were complaining about their kills or damage being marginalised, I've encountered precisely 0 that claimed to be female.

[blacklusterseph]

On 2019-04-01 at 6:33 AM, DarkRuler2500 said:

Spores

• CHANGE: Remove all damage from the ability but instead makes it a guaranteed corrosive proc at all times. Each successful proc will charge the Contagion passive by 1%.

• NEW: Allows the Spore to be casted on the Molt will induce a chemical reaction within the Molt. It will quickly deteriorate and then deal its original explosion damage to enemies in the area.

• NEW: Each time a spored enemy is killed by an attack while Toxic Lash was active, will grant a +5% bonus to the Contagion passive.

I think you could have stopped at the first sentence. Personally I think the first mistake DE made with this was changing the dmg type from viral since its function intrinsically dealt with some of the issues with how spores could be abused, but that boat has sailed so w/e. If the only thing current spores did was apply corrosive procs, it would still be one of, if not the best 1 ability in the game. The passive gameplay option disappears and every Saryn player has to actually play the game. The primary problem with previous spores was that the damage function was inconsistent. The rework was needlessly over-engineered.

 

On 2019-04-01 at 6:33 AM, DarkRuler2500 said:

Molt

• NEW: For each % of Contagion the ability efficiency is increased by 0,5%. So if you were to cast the Molt at 100% Contagion it would cost half. At the same time one third of the current points will be destroyed at that time.

The only thing that Molt ever needed which it still doesn't have is that the taunt doesn't work properly. That is literally it. Additional taunt range would have been nice but really the only thing that continues to plague this ability is that the taunt is inconsistent. On a frame without reliable CC, its the primary irritation if you enjoyed playing melee with this frame.

 

I think in general, I don't really agree with your inclusion of the Contagion mechanic in terms of a rework since it requires such extensive changes, but certainly if such a change was on the cards for Saryn, then your suggestions aren't worse than what she currently is.

[Cibyllae]

I'm going to Rework your rework.

Your OP

Spoiler

On 2019-03-31 at 9:33 PM, DarkRuler2500 said:

With her rework Saryn‘s power reached to unknown heights, the spores would annihilate entire waves without the squad having to fire a single shot. It robbed allies of their opportunity to fight. What would happen? Either the player would go afk, he would leave at the next opportunity or he would run off into other areas of the map to have some fun on his own. Of course these scenarios are a bit exaggerated but should just serve to point out what Saryn‘s main issue is.

Saryn needs not a straight nerf but a proper redesign!

The team of Digital Extremes had quickly discovered that the original reworked Saryn was way too strong as her scaling broke all charts. Thus they limited the scaling but in return added a function to preserve some damage over time. Still, Saryn is by far the most potent damage frames currently in the game because it does not matter to limit the increase-gain if there is no limit to the top at all.

Do not get my wrong, I am a Saryn-player and I love the feeling of nuking the enemies but I am far away from just spamming Spores and Miasma as I enjoy the whole kit. So I would like to present a concept that would shift her damage properties to her other skills and it would also make her kit a bit less „nuking without thinking“, as right now one spore is easily sustained forever in a crowded area (e.g. Elite Sanctuary Onslaught).

Abilities

Please note that X is a variable, I use to show a number that ought to be determined by Digital Extremes as I am not perfectly sure about which values might be considered balanced.

• Contagion

  • NEW: Instead of having limitless numbers the passive ability orb that now shows the damage cap will be reworked to a 0% to 100% orb. At zero percent it could look like a fossilized infested orb. And at 100% energy-coloured gas could emit from it.

• Spores

  • CHANGE: Remove all damage from the ability but instead makes it a guaranteed corrosive proc at all times. Each successful proc will charge the Contagion passive by 1%.

  • NEW: Allows the Spore to be casted on the Molt will induce a chemical reaction within the Molt. It will quickly deteriorate and then deal its original explosion damage to enemies in the area.

  • NEW: Each time a spored enemy is killed by an attack while Toxic Lash was active, will grant a +5% bonus to the Contagion passive.

• Molt

  • NEW: For each % of Contagion the ability efficiency is increased by 0,5%. So if you were to cast the Molt at 100% Contagion it would cost half. At the same time one third of the current points will be destroyed at that time.

  • NEW: Damaging the Molt with Viral, Gas or Toxin damage will manually increase its maximum health points and thus the dealth damage upon explosion. It will not restore already lost health to its current health. Consider it as a stationary Antimatter Drop that you can charge and then either manually detonate, detonate by expiring or by bursing it with your spores.

• Toxic Lash

  • NEW: For each % of Contagion the ability strength is increased by 1%. At 100% Contagion it would increase the toxin-enhancement by 100%. At the same time half your current points will be destroyed.

  • NEW: Additionally to the already existing blocking-enhancement, Toxic Lash will also add a small toxin burst in a 5 meter area around Saryn whenever she succesfully blocks an attack. The toxin damage considered for the proc-calculation is based on the damage previously blocked.

  • CHANGE: Contagion Cloud-augment should be slightly revisisted too. Instead of just creating clouds with flat toxin damage upon kill, the clouds should behave similar to Chroma‘s 2nd ability and destroy X% of enemy max life per second.

• Miasma

  • NEW: For each % of Contagion the ability duration is increased by 2%. At 100% Contagion it would cause the Viral proc and the stun to last much longer. At the same time all of your current Contagion points will be destroyed.

  • NEW: Enemies killed during Miasma‘s duration have a small change to burst similar to Acid Shells and deal X% of their maximum life to all enemies in their perimeter als viral damage.

  • NEW: While Miasma lasts on an enemy any toxin, gas, corrosive or viral proc from others will not run out. Of course this does not apply to Miasma itself.

  • NEW: Casting Miasma while Molt is out will first double the Molts current health/damage and then manually detonate her in 1,5x the normal radius.

If you read till this point, thanks for reading. I would really love reading your feedback.

Greetings
DarkRuler

 

My Version of your Rework

Spoiler

On 2019-03-31 at 9:33 PM, DarkRuler2500 said:

• Contagion

  • NEW: Contagion alters and enhances Saryn's abilities. Saryn has a Maximum of 100 Contagion stacks.

• Spores

  • CHANGE: Spores tick for 50% of listed primary weapon damage, are able to critically strike, and have a guaranteed viral proc. Each successful proc will grant 1 Contagion stack. Critical Chance and Critical Damage are based off of primary weapon total values at the time Spores are cast.

  • NEW: Each time a spored enemy is killed by Saryn, Saryn will gain 3 stacks of Contagion.

• Molt

  • NEW: For each stack of Contagion the range of Molt's taunt and explosion damage is increased by 1% up to a maximum of 100%. Molt drains 3 Contagion stacks every 5 seconds. For every stack of Contagion drained, Molt's explosion damage increases by 1%, no maximum. Molt's damage is now calculated off of your weapon's total damage. This includes all buffs affecting your weapon at the time of Molt's explosion, including Toxic Lash. If Molt Explodes while Toxic Lash is active, Saryn loses all Contagion Stacks. For every enemy killed by Molt's explosion while Toxic Lash is active, Saryn gains 1 Contagion stack. Molt's explosion is able to critically strike. Critical Chance and Critical Damage are based off of your primary weapons total values at the time of Molt's explosion.

  • NEW: Damaging Molt with Viral, Gas or Toxin damage will heal Molt for X% of its health. Every time an enemy is killed by Saryn while Toxic Lash is active, Molt gains a stack of Viral defense. Each stack of Viral Defense grants Molt 1% of innate damage reduction. Viral Defense lasts for 20 seconds, if Viral Defense is not refreshed, Molt loses 20 stacks of Viral Defense. Every time Molt gains one stack of Viral Defense, Viral Defense's duration is refreshed.

• Toxic Lash

  • NEW: For each stack of Contagion Toxic Lash gains 20% toxin damage. At 100 Contagion stacks Toxic Lash is increased by 2000%. Every time Saryn kills an enemy with her primary, secondary, or melee weapon while Toxic Lash is active, Saryn loses 20 Contagion stacks. If Molt Explodes while Toxic Lash is active, Saryn loses all Contagion Stacks. For every enemy killed by Molt's explosion while Toxic Lash is active, Saryn gains 1 Contagion stack.

  • NEW: Additionally to the already existing blocking-enhancement, Toxic Lash will also reflect Toxin Damage whenever she successfully blocks an attack. The toxin damage considered for the proc-calculation is based on the damage blocked. The proc chance of the damage reflected is equal to half of her block chance.

• Miasma

  • NEW: For each stack of Contagion the proc chance of Miasma increases by 1%. Miasma now deals corrosive damage.

  • NEW: While Miasma lasts on an enemy that is infected by Spores, all toxin damage is increased by 4x.

 

 

Edited April 2, 2019 by Cibyllae