The real test for Nightwave would be....

[Hypernaut1]

2 minutes ago, SordidDreams said:

Games are all about rewards, always have been. Try playing a version of Tetris that doesn't display or record your score, see how fun that is. "Gameplay for gameplay's sake" is total BS, games need rewards to be fun.

Tetris is a bad example. I don't even look at the score in Tetris.

[Test-995]

2 minutes ago, SordidDreams said:

Games are all about rewards, always have been. Try playing a version of Tetris that doesn't display or record your score, see how fun that is. "Gameplay for gameplay's sake" is total BS, games need rewards to be fun.

I mean, rewards doesn't have to be literal reward.

The fun gameplay/challenging fight can be itself as reward in the end.

[SordidDreams]

2 minutes ago, Test-995 said:

I mean, rewards doesn't have to be literal reward.

The fun gameplay/challenging fight can be itself as reward in the end.

Getting to see new content certainly can be used as a reward, but that only works once, and since it takes longer to produce content than to consume it, it can't be used as the only reward. Especially in endless games, the devs have to somehow motivate players to keep doing the same things over and over.

Edited April 9, 2019 by SordidDreams

[(PSN)Zero_029]

1 hour ago, Krion112 said:

Says a lot about DE's ability to design games, if the only way to motivate play is by dangling 'rewards'; Heaven forbid they design something with interesting and engaging game-play.

They did this with multiple new modes & without good Rewards no one bothered to play them.

Sanctuary Onslaught & Arbitrations would like to have a word with you.

The modes introduced leaderboards, it gave players the "arena" (ESO) & "challenging" (Arbitrations) content they asked for. But it died because players such as yourself said they wanted something engaging. That rewards didn't matter as long as they got to test themselves & feel challenged.

Once challenged they quickly faded out because everything challenging was not worth the reward.

Profit Taker is a more recent example. It's a harder (than Exploiter) fight & no one runs it because of the rewards.

While you maybe content running content just to run it. The extreme majority of players NEED "something to chase".

_________________

As for Nightwave having no rewards behind it except the standard Alert rewards. Well then just like Alerts...

No one would run them.

All these folks with Rose Colored eye implants seem to forget that 99% of Alerts were ignored.

People only ran Forma, Catalyst, Reactor, & Nitain Alerts. With newer players going after Aura Mods, maybe a weapon, & all of the precious listed. With the once in a lunar eclipse/blood moon/planetary alignment Helmet alert.

Alerts went ignored by everyone. We all know it.

No one logged in & was like: "Alright! 2500 credits, 5,000 Ferrite, Dual Zoren Skin, & Focus Energy . Let's knock all these out!!"

Everyone went..."Meh..."

Until their phone or app said: "Nitain!" at 3:45am.

Nightwave sees better participation because a decent amount of the challenges get completed passively (last week was the best Nightwave has been) while some require a little change of pace.

It is FAR from perfect. (Ayatan, Forma, with Friends/Clanmates, and anything above 3 repetitions is overkill.)

But it's a huge step in the right direction & its granted the playerbase wish of breathing life into old content while also giving people something to do other than stand in their Orbiter.

Just now they are so lethargic they dislike having to leave their Orbiter. They just want DE to hand them rewards for free or for absolute minimum effort (alerts).

[Krion112]

1 hour ago, -SDM-NerevarCM said:

Interesting and engaging gameplay doesn't matter if there's nothing rewarding at the end.

If you think people will play a new game mode or system only because is engaging, then you're really naive.

Observe how gaming has changed, for the worse then:

I have played games across the entirety of my life, and the fondest ones I remember and cherish, and arguably spent the most money on, didn't have rewards, at least not in this fashion. No, they offered experiences, accomplishments, and involvement. By comparison, Warframe only has the rewards you obtain after an extensive enduring of dull and monotonous game-play, those rewards being things you just continue to use amid the dull monotony.

I would say, rewards are worthless if they are obtained, and serve to extend, uninspired game-play. And the fact that people feel so starved and needy for the next crumb of 'reward', amid a massive game, proves my point.

 

28 minutes ago, (PS4)Zero_029 said:

They did this with multiple new modes & without good Rewards no one bothered to play them.

Sanctuary Onslaught & Arbitrations would like to have a word with you.

The modes introduced leaderboards, it gave players the "arena" (ESO) & "challenging" (Arbitrations) content they asked for. But it died because players such as yourself said they wanted something engaging. That rewards didn't matter as long as they got to test themselves & feel challenged.

Once challenged they quickly faded out because everything challenging was not worth the reward.

Profit Taker is a more recent example. It's a harder (than Exploiter) fight & no one runs it because of the rewards.

While you maybe content running content just to run it. The extreme majority of players NEED "something to chase".

I did want something engaging, and DE never delivered. Reskinning existing game-modes (which already have their own problems) and tacking 'Nullifier' type enemies to every faction doesn't constitute engagement or challenge. I would describe things like this as blatant disregard for anything resembling competent game-design.

Warframe doesn't have anything that represents challenge, it relies purely on statistical amplification, which isn't challenge, it's just numbers. Just because an enemy has one-million health, doesn't mean it's a challenge and doesn't mean it's engaging. In fact, 'Bullet Sponge' is in the common vernacular for gamers, yeah? And I've not often heard of it being used for anything but the most negative of criticism.

To me, Archwing, Conclave, Lunaro, Onslaught, and Arbitrations all failed on the merit of poor game-play, on top of poor reward structure; overall, examples of DE's poor game-design execution.

"Something to chase"... kind of makes it sound like an addiction. After the next big 'high' you'll get? Hek, DE even seems to think so, going by some of Nora's dialogue. How sad.

 

[T.Hoagie]

Well, once I am done with nightwave, probably as soon as Sunday for the final level. I'm done. I will not repeat Nightwave.

This has been a painful unfun slog, and I'm not going to waste any more time on it. People can make up all the crap they want and think what they want, won't change my mind.

[(PSN)Limorkil]

19 hours ago, (XB1)Tucker D Dawg said:

To be fair to nightwave however - the MAJORITY of the challenges can be done quickly, don't need to be done in a day (you have a week), many are things you would already be doing, and many can be overlapped.

If one decides to wait until sunday noon then tries to cram all the nightwave tasks in before reset, well they're going to hate life. 

but if you look at the challenges you can overlap them: Nightmare+Spy, Nightmare+capture, or find syndicate medallions + kill enemies with xyz damage, open relics + x mission type + y damage type etc.  This weeks on XBone for example took me 3 hours to finish the weeks worth of stuff.  and in addition to completing the challenges I was also finishing levelling some garbage gear, farming an extra set of equinox etc.

 

If people do things inefficiently, they can't complain about how long and what a grind it is.  So if they chose to do 10 nightmare defense missions for the nightmare missions which are slow to finish, didn't bring the right damage type for the kill x enemies with challenge, then did 10 slow mobile defense missions for the relic runs, etc etc... well that's on them.

I agree that "not getting them this season" sucks -as I'm in that boat with the forma since I shelved the game for 3 months and didn't even bother to login after farming atmo systems for hours and not getting any, then didn't come back to warframe until nightwave was well underway.

The problem with your argument is that it basically turns Nightwave into the old alert system, since what you are saying is people need to be online all the time monitoring missions to find ones that can be completed quickly.  Often I find there are no “fast” relic missions or nightmare missions etc.  Sure, I could hang around doing other stuff until something ideal pops up, but the problem for many people - like with the old alerts - is that not everyone can be on all the time.  

Obviously leaving everything while Sunday is really dumb, although personally I end up spending a large part of the weekend doing Nightwave because it’s hard to be on for an extended period during the week.  

Dont get me wrong.  It’s not terrible, it just needs a little fine tuning.  

[(XBOX)Tucker D Dawg]

5 minutes ago, (PS4)Limorkil said:

The problem with your argument is that it basically turns Nightwave into the old alert system, since what you are saying is people need to be online all the time monitoring missions to find ones that can be completed quickly.  

not really - there are always a few mission types up that overlap the requirements.   its nothing like hanging around waiting for that Vauban/aura/nitain alert you need which is only very few times per day and only up for a short while.  

I never had to "wait around" for overlapping missions... just was aware of what my tasks were and selected missions appropriately.

sure - I didn't finish all the nightmare - then finish all the spy - I would do a bit of nightmare e.g. then a bit of relic, then back to nightmare or whatever as things came up - but was never waiting for something - that in itself is inefficient.

 

 

Edited April 10, 2019 by (XB1)Tucker D Dawg

[-CdG-Zilchy]

OP I'll still play it. I enjoy revisiting parts of the game I haven't touched in ages. And it takes at worst maybe 3 hours of my time per week?

Edited April 10, 2019 by Zilchy