DE did it again.

[Altagraive]

tl;dr Cosmetics matter because they allow players to express themselves in video games just like different play styles do. DE knows this and exploits this.

 

Long version:

My last thread was successfully derailed by people that got uncomfortable with the fact that DE released edo prime unvault without sugatra first, and few months later they re-released it with sugatra in, effectively forcing supporters like myself to buy the same thing twice if they (me) want the entire set.

I did some research and apparently youtuber's name who pushed DE to selling prime cosmetics separately is Jim Sterling.

I browsed through his videos and found this

A video where he proves, that skins and other cosmetics do in fact matter.

And while DE, thank god, don't put gambling into their game beyond riven re-rolling and mod packs, they still exploit cosmetic microtransactions with putting incomplete prime cosmetics set on sale first, and then re-selling the full thing later without giving us an option to "upgrade" the purchase, rather than the buying entire thing again and ending up with duplicates.

[Jiminez_Burial]

If you felt the pack was incomplete then why did you buy it the first time?  They're not exploiting anyone, they're just rotating the sets in different combinations.

[Altagraive]

15 минут назад, Jiminez_Burial сказал:

If you felt the pack was incomplete then why did you buy it the first time?  They're not exploiting anyone, they're just rotating the sets in different combinations.

That's what I thought.

But it's not different combination.

Kazeru isn't packaged with some other armor set that I don't have. It's packaged with the one it was with originally, then they skipped it in the unvaulting and now it's back with edo again.

 

Here's another insight on how cosmetics do in fact matter and affect players' experience.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkW4jH-MI3Y

 

Edited May 2, 2019 by Altagraive

[Jiminez_Burial]

46 minutes ago, Altagraive said:

That's what I thought.

But it's not different combination.

Kazeru isn't packaged with some other armor set that I don't have. It's packaged with the one it was with originally, then they skipped it in the unvaulting and now it's back with edo again.

 

Here's another insight on how cosmetics do in fact matter and affect players' experience.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkW4jH-MI3Y

 

The last time Edo was available it came with Verlorum Sigil.  The combination is different.  The next time Edo is available it will most likely be with yet another accessory.  Also the link doesn't mean anything in terms of a reply (better add it to the thread itself rather than as a reply) because I never said cosmetics weren't important, I argued that DE aren't exploiting you in the way that they're doing it now.  In a F2P game, would you rather they monetise gameplay?  No, then cosmetics are the only other option.  When cosmetics are being monetised in a game you paid an entry fee for, then that is not okay.

[Altagraive]

They already monetize gameplay.

[Jiminez_Burial]

1 minute ago, Altagraive said:

They already monetize gameplay.

I guess I should have been more specific.  Given the context that we are talking about is when paying for cosmetics is the only way to reasonably obtain them, the same is for when I mentioned gameplay.  By gameplay I assume you mean Warframes/Weapons/Operator Equipment etc.  With the stated context, you can obtain the 'gameplay' easily without paying for it so that was not what I was meaning.  If what I assumed you meant by 'gameplay' is wrong, then please elaborate keeping in mind the context of what I said.

[Altagraive]

What I'm saying is that I can't buy sugatra without buying a duplicate set of edo set, which is anti-consumer.

Ways to fix this would be either to allow players to "upgrade" their pack or to package different items in a way that avoid duplicates.

[Jiminez_Burial]

5 minutes ago, Altagraive said:

What I'm saying is that I can't buy sugatra without buying a duplicate set of edo set, which is anti-consumer.

Ways to fix this would be either to allow players to "upgrade" their pack or to package different items in a way that avoid duplicates.

Or you just wait...  You assume that the combination of items will always be the same (which is a stupid assumption based on past examples).  And by the fact that you don't mention anything regarding 'gameplay' in this reply, my assumption on what you mean was correct and my further contextual explanation was enough?

Edited May 2, 2019 by Jiminez_Burial
Tidied it up

[Altagraive]

I'm not discussing gameplay because it's not the point of this topic, so please stop trying to derail it.

As for waiting, that's not an argument, because there is no information on when items will go on sale again and in what combinations. It's entirely possible that it will never be repackaged with anything else, DE will not give us such information.

[MagPrime]

7 minutes ago, Altagraive said:

What I'm saying is that I can't buy sugatra without buying a duplicate set of edo set, which is anti-consumer.

Ways to fix this would be either to allow players to "upgrade" their pack or to package different items in a way that avoid duplicates.

You can't buy it with THIS pack but that may not be true for the next one, as the items have been rotated about. 

At worst, you buy a pack and get duplicate items or you want until the item lands in a pack of items you don't already have. 

They can't package items to avoid duplicates for everyone, that sinply isn't possible at this point, but they could break up the packs so you can purchase the individual items.  Personally I have no issue with this but I doubt it'll happen anytime soon. 

[Jiminez_Burial]

14 minutes ago, Altagraive said:

I'm not discussing gameplay because it's not the point of this topic, so please stop trying to derail it.

I'm not derailing, I'm asking if a point that was brought up as a natural result of discussing the thread topic is closed...  If I was trying to derail the topic then why would I still be replying to both aspects?

14 minutes ago, Altagraive said:

As for waiting, that's not an argument, because there is no information on when items will go on sale again and in what combinations. It's entirely possible that it will never be repackaged with anything else, DE will not give us such information.

Except that waiting is an argument.  DE won't give us this information because they don't know what is being packaged with each cosmetic un-vaulting until very soon to release.  They talked about this in one of their devstreams possibly a year ago (my mem isn't good with long term semantics).  There is no exploiting here because if it doesn't favour you, it's not intentional.  Randomness used to exploit is possible (when % odds are manipulated) but that's not what is happening here.  The way it is atm is so that if someone doesn't want to pay the price for a single item they want while having another tacked on to up the price, then they can wait.  You chose to buy the first package, and you can choose to wait to buy a future package which has both items you want.

Edited May 2, 2019 by Jiminez_Burial
Further question

[Altagraive]

If packages were not mixed up, and it would always the same combination of items - THEN there would be no exploiting, since there would be no change of getting duplicates what so ever, since you would already have everything from the same pack.

They are clearly exploting cosmetics with putting parts of different sets in different combinations, pushing players towards buying stuff we already have.

That was the entire point of them separating cosmetics from gameplay items in unvaults in the first place.

It's like taking one step forward, two steps back.

 

[Jiminez_Burial]

5 minutes ago, Altagraive said:

If packages were not mixed up, and it would always the same combination of items - THEN there would be no exploiting, since there would be no change of getting duplicates what so ever, since you would already have everything from the same pack.

Well that's a false dichotomy.  Can't it just be that neither way of doing it exploitative.  The way they're doing it now benefits everyone who understands the concept of patience, giving a wider range of options when all things are said and done.

PS:  No need to keep linking the videos, I watch all of Jim Sterling's stuff (Thank God for him).

Edited May 2, 2019 by Jiminez_Burial
Changed 'videos' to 'stuff' so it would flow better.

[Altagraive]

That's clearly an exploitation.

I already explained how and why, stop defending these predatory practices. They know full well that people don't like to wait so they push duplicates along with items people want.

[(XBOX)zThulsaDoomz]

Here we go again.  I believe the quote is:

"Those who fail to learn from history are destined to repeat it."

[Jiminez_Burial]

3 minutes ago, Altagraive said:

That's clearly an exploitation.

I already explained how and why, stop defending these predatory practices. They know full well that people don't like to wait so they push duplicates along with items people want.

That's not exploitation, that's people being pathetic.  Being impatient isn't a mental affliction like having an addictive personality is, it's just someone lacking self control.  Also, why do you assume malicious intent with their actions.  Could it not just be that they're giving people more options.  Why is it that something that isn't beneficial to you and the actions you took considered exploitative, but if they bent to your will and reduced the number of options by keeping the cosmetics together it wouldn't be?

[Altagraive]

1 минуту назад, (XB1)Thy Divinity сказал:

Here we go again.  I believe the quote is:

"Those who fail to learn from history are destined to repeat it."

And history shown that without large push back from e-celeb DE will not stop exploiting players.

And for some e-celeb to make such push back it's us common players is who need to make a stand first.

[Jiminez_Burial]

2 hours ago, Facadedestroyer said:

i fully support you, lets just hope those gangs of derailleur dont invade this post again.

And after re-reading this after what Thy Divinity commented, I realise the OP obviously didn't like the response he got the first time, so he re-posted.  That's just sad.

Edited May 2, 2019 by Jiminez_Burial

[sleepychewbacca]

1 minute ago, Altagraive said:

And history shown that without large push back from e-celeb DE will not stop exploiting players.

And for some e-celeb to make such push back it's us common players is who need to make a stand first.

Common players like yourself you mean. 

I for one have nothing against the way Prime Accessories are sold. The fact that we get the cosmetics and some plat is just a nice tidy bow on top. Now if it's not what you want, that's on you.  

[FlyingDice]

Or you could, y'know, not buy cosmetics if you don't like the price or package they come in. This whole "but I must have every cosmetic I want or my experience is ruuuuuuiiiiiined" schtick positively reeks of self-absorbed entitlement. I played the game up until late 2017 with no cosmetics save two color palettes, Asa syandana, and Daedalus shoulder pads -- it didn't make me feel bad.

I would certainly agree that the unvault packs before the accessory-only unvaults were a bit S#&$, but jesus wept this is pathetic.

[Altagraive]

"I don't care so you shouldn't care" is not an argument.

[sleepychewbacca]

Just now, Altagraive said:

"I don't care so you shouldn't care" is not an argument.

As opposed to "I care, so you should?" 

[Altagraive]

As opposed to "this is unethical anti-consumer practice and it should stop"

[MagPrime]

1 minute ago, Altagraive said:

As opposed to "this is unethical anti-consumer practice and it should stop"

You keep saying that but I'm not sure it means what you think it means. 

[Altagraive]

I already explained why and how it is.