Guest Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 7 minutes ago, (PS4)haphazardlynamed said: its easier to CG a fantastic ugly character than it is to CG a realistic attractive character. Consider Gollum from the old LoTR trilogy. Most convincing photorealistic CG character; because he so darn ugly that it fools your eyes into not attempting to compare him so much to reality. Any flaws just get chalked up to; well he's supposed to be ugly anyway... whereas if you were to attempt an attractive character, any flaws will end up standing out. In a way, you can be said to be correct, although your only mistake was stating a realistic ugly character, since Gollum and many others are in a way, complete inventions of fantasy. There is a Chinese proverb that states that Ghosts are far easier to paint than Horses and Dogs. Because everyone knows what a Horse or Dog looks like, but no one can say what is a Ghost. The unknown may be easier to represent than the well known. It doesn't matter if your Ghost drawing is on the same level as Da Vinci or a three year old's. You cannot objectively state it is inaccurate. Photorealism =/= realism. It is no so much as your eyes fooling you into not comparing him to reality, but that there is no reality for him to be compared to. You cannot accurately say that there is an ugly Gollum or beautiful Gollum because we all have no idea what a real Gollum would look like, given such does not exist. Now, DE is not making fantastic ugly characters, they are making ugly humans. We all know what a human is meant to look like, so either way, flaws stand out and it is just low effort. As a consequence, things like the Ostrons end up as an eyesore. You don't see people complain about the Infested, do you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)enormous897show Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 12 hours ago, MirageKnight said: If it did, I'd quit playing in a heartbeat and never look back. FNIAframe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)haphazardlynamed Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 1 hour ago, Datam4ss said: In a way, you can be said to be correct, although your only mistake was stating a realistic ugly character, since Gollum and many others are in a way, complete inventions of fantasy. There is a Chinese proverb that states that Ghosts are far easier to paint than Horses and Dogs. Because everyone knows what a Horse or Dog looks like, but no one can say what is a Ghost. The unknown may be easier to represent than the well known. It doesn't matter if your Ghost drawing is on the same level as Da Vinci or a three year old's. You cannot objectively state it is inaccurate. Photorealism =/= realism. It is no so much as your eyes fooling you into not comparing him to reality, but that there is no reality for him to be compared to. You cannot accurately say that there is an ugly Gollum or beautiful Gollum because we all have no idea what a real Gollum would look like, given such does not exist. Now, DE is not making fantastic ugly characters, they are making ugly humans. We all know what a human is meant to look like, so either way, flaws stand out and it is just low effort. As a consequence, things like the Ostrons end up as an eyesore. You don't see people complain about the Infested, do you? Yeah you have a point too; though I thing that you're more describing the 'uncanny valley' effect. Where the closer a rendering is to something familiar; the more obvious the parts that don't fit become. I literally meant that it's easier to depict ugly features than attractive ones. Like, warts and scars and wrinkles etc flaws are easier for an artist to just paste all over a character than to just try and get subtle details right. I think the Ostrons are kinda suffering from this. Just make everyone it some kinda mutated demihuman and now there's less work for the artists. ah maybe that's just saying the same thing... anyway, to OP. what's it matter? most the people you meet in Warframe you're going to shoot in the face anyhow. Go play an actual RPG if you want to focus on characters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Temp0- Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 В 24.07.2019 в 11:58, (PS4)Viveeeh сказал: Sure, there are traits seen as pretty / attractive by most of the people. Could cite psychological studies if someone made me, but please don't - I'm too lazy and this is something everyone knows without psychologists playing captain obvious. There are exceptions thought, for example, I think Brad Pitt is only average, and while a lot of girls like Justin Bieber, if you'd put him beside a pile of trash, I could barely tell the difference. Stop confising your subjective taste and objective facts. Objective fact is, hes good looking. Do you like him? No. Pretty straight forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Temp0- Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 3 часа назад, (PS4)haphazardlynamed сказал: Too Many Pages Just going to say that as far as Art Direction goes its easier to CG a realistic ugly character than it is to CG a realistic attractive character. Consider Gollum from the old LoTR trilogy. Most convincing photorealistic CG character; because he so darn ugly that it fools your eyes into not attempting to compare him so much to reality. Any flaws just get chalked up to; well he's supposed to be ugly anyway... whereas if you were to attempt an attractive character, any flaws will end up standing out. What a load of bs. Gollum looks fine cause hes a monster first so you simply cant compare him with anything real, and second when he was create cg was worse. Now look at any decent game, faces there are fine, you even have movies like Tron with fully animated real human head. Heck like WTF are we talking about, even relatively low poly games like Silent Hill 2 to 4 had awesome face models. And you have a gal to say all human faces are BOUND to look bad in games when in fact its specific to stty studis and games like andromeda, fallout and the likes of those memes. Its only a matter of 1 skill 2 will to do it. Period. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 10 minutes ago, -Temp0- said: Stop confising your subjective taste and objective facts. Objective fact is, hes good looking. Do you like him? No. Pretty straight forward. You can't objectively say someone is good looking unless measured. Since Brad Pitt has not measured his face (along with all its ratios) and all opinions of him are sampled from people's subjective tastes, it would be fallacious to say he is objectively good looking. It is normal that one has to adjust for racial differences, since different races actually have biological inclinations in what they look for. But, understanding what you would say, the difference between this and NPCs in Warframe is that Brad Pitt most likely has facial ratios that would put him in the bracket that many whites would consider as handsome/attractive. Why race should be controlled for is obvious enough - the difference in appearance between what is beautiful in say Korean Cinema and Hollywood is obvious enough. If you can say Yoona and Scarlett Johansson are the same I think you need an optometrist's help. In the case of Warframe, any facial measurements would tell you that the facial ratios are wrong and actually inhuman. There is nothing gained from comparing Brad Pitt to Ostrons, TBH, because there's no way Brad Pitt is going to look like a chimp rather than a human since he's not a badly textured NPC. Ostrons are objectively ugly because they are low effort and have facial ratios that are not human. This line of objectivity actually excludes human taste. Which actually means, anyone in this thread who argued that "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" is uttering platitudes, assuming they were not posting memes. 8 minutes ago, -Temp0- said: What a load of bs. --Bla Bla-- Its only a matter of 1 skill 2 will to do it. Period. You realize he is explaining the excuse that DE is using to cover up their laziness in texturing faces. The fact is, DE is lazy to do faces. We don't know about their skill at making said faces but we know they won't do it. Again, as I would explain, just because there is an explanation and an excuse for laziness, doesn't make laziness right or DE immune to criticism. Yet, it does mean that DE has said excuse to not do work some may consider necessary. Which kind of means you are arguing against a person who actually shares your opinion, except he is more pessimistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Temp0- Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 You dont have to measure anything, you look at the thing and see if it is or isnt beautiful. A pretty human face is the same as a beautiful painting or a healthy animal. NOW when scientists try to understand what makes it beautiful they reveal all the ratios, symmetry and sht, but you dont have to go into this detail, the face is either symmetrical and balanced or it isnt. Even complete strangets to art most of the times can tell a fake painting and an original if fake has different proportions and structure, and im obviously not talking about absolute iconic art piece everyone knows. We evolved with this kind of thing in us, you dont have to teach whats beautiful and whats not to know it. And for the record, I dont find Bieber or Pitt attractive, I still understand they look good. But then just like with any other human, their behavior, manners, manner of speech and deeds can turn you of, making that good looking face very punchable, thats not the point of this conversation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LunaSelenis Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 Being attractive or not is highly subjective. I may find someone or something pretty that you find repulsive and vice versa. To me, they all look like they have normal faces. Not everyone looks like a supermodel. I personally think that most supermodels are rather ugly, mainly because they use so much makeup and present themselfes in this false light which has the side effect to make them all look kind of the same, which gets boring to look at for me after a couple minutes. The more imperfections a face has, the more interesting it becomes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MirageKnight Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 10 hours ago, (PS4)enormous897show said: FNIAframe And that means...what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InfinitusPhoenix Posted July 25, 2019 Author Share Posted July 25, 2019 (edited) Making vendors attractive actually will only do betterfor DE. If the vendor is very attractive, player willbewillingmore to come back to that vendor, so he would spend more time in the game and be more interested in it. Edited July 25, 2019 by InfinitusPhoenix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goatwin Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 (edited) On 2019-07-23 at 2:02 PM, InfinitusPhoenix said: Where did I say that I want anime faces? People here can't even read right... I want attractive faces. It doesn't need to be anime themed You literally praised examples of art styles you consider good for warframe, all anime and one is a loli about to get fisted with kuva. But how about sticking to debating your point of views instead of calling people fanboys or some other low effort insults? So far you are the one not putting any effort into reading. Maybe then more will agree to adding attractive npcs. Hell I have a high standard when it comes to attractiveness. But i don't see your examples of scantly clothed pigtailed gothic brunette lolis cutting fish liver for me realistic. Edited July 25, 2019 by goatwin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goatwin Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 13 hours ago, Datam4ss said: In a way, you can be said to be correct, although your only mistake was stating a realistic ugly character, since Gollum and many others are in a way, complete inventions of fantasy. There is a Chinese proverb that states that Ghosts are far easier to paint than Horses and Dogs. Because everyone knows what a Horse or Dog looks like, but no one can say what is a Ghost. The unknown may be easier to represent than the well known. It doesn't matter if your Ghost drawing is on the same level as Da Vinci or a three year old's. You cannot objectively state it is inaccurate. Photorealism =/= realism. It is no so much as your eyes fooling you into not comparing him to reality, but that there is no reality for him to be compared to. You cannot accurately say that there is an ugly Gollum or beautiful Gollum because we all have no idea what a real Gollum would look like, given such does not exist. Now, DE is not making fantastic ugly characters, they are making ugly humans. We all know what a human is meant to look like, so either way, flaws stand out and it is just low effort. As a consequence, things like the Ostrons end up as an eyesore. You don't see people complain about the Infested, do you? Now see, unlike OP, you make logical fair points about this. I only see one 'potentially' attractive character in this game, and it's lotus. But half her face is covered. Could be artist limitations, which then should be very easily fixed. Any change though i think better start with operators. Would be nice to at least have a chance to create something outside the uncanny valley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgabor Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 (edited) On 2019-07-24 at 9:21 AM, Datam4ss said: Actresses like Qin Lan (Chinese), Yoona (Korean) or Li Yitong (Chinese) look beautiful to me (although pretty sure tonnes of Whites or Blacks would disagree). I looked it up. Imo. Yoona and to some extent Li are attractive and i'm completely indifferent to Qin. Don't know anything about their personalities though and it would take me a lot of time to bother with that, only telling this about their looks. I'm caucasian btw. and personally find a lot of asian and some black women attractive, but true, naturally people will always find some characteristics that are more common in their race to be more attractive. Edited July 25, 2019 by kgabor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InfinitusPhoenix Posted July 25, 2019 Author Share Posted July 25, 2019 (edited) Tzuyuis better. Yoona looks mediocre to me. And btw, Scarlet Johanson was very attractive in Iron Man 2 and in first Avengers. After that she just got old. Edited July 25, 2019 by InfinitusPhoenix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)The1stAzrael Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 Woah, this thread went deep, like really fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgabor Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 18 minutes ago, (PS4)The1stAzrael said: Woah, this thread went deep, like really fast. This thread is so deep, Adele is rolling rivens in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HugintheCrow Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InfinitusPhoenix Posted July 25, 2019 Author Share Posted July 25, 2019 49 minutes ago, HugintheCrowsaid: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HugintheCrow Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 2 minutes ago, InfinitusPhoenix said: Ok, then come to my thread for waifus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InfinitusPhoenix Posted July 26, 2019 Author Share Posted July 26, 2019 6 hours ago, HugintheCrow said: Ok, then come to my thread for waifus. Link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)LorenzoClimbs Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 On 2019-07-10 at 5:31 PM, rastaban75 said: Have you seen the fish the Ostrons eat? There lies your answer. Sooner or later they all start looking like the food they eat, and Konzu is slowly but surely turning into a Norg-face. This is H.P.Lovecraftian horror, right there. Do... they also... Breed with the fishes...? Explains the Innsmouth look on Konzu lmao. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sziklamester Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 On 2019-07-24 at 1:06 AM, TaylorsContraction said: Keep in mind that a lot of people are space faring, those masks are necessary in case of decompression or loss of atmosphere. If I were in space I'd rarely take mine of too. That part is true but I meant mostly those whom are in a planet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryYourWaiter Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 Well, they think you’re ugly too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady_Xenomorph Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 I personally could not find here any symphatetic npcs out there. Warframes are look good but there is no ideal npc for me. All of you wrong, this is the beauty. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleopatranikea Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 (edited) Basically the devs just in many part of the game making skip progress and effort because they are focusing on what they do like. Ostron faces and copy paste the same npcs is basically a lazyness what any developer do in their game if they consider multiple characters in a game. There are samples for multiple characters in different games but this actually enough to them. No matter if they use it as excuse or not they decided their vision on faces-models are this what they ae doing. DE is famous anyway of their working habit to finish something, check it years later and done something. They are creative developers but often they are lazy because not hiring enough people to the needed departments so they focusing their rescources on eye candy mechanics and keep the grind up. Would be nice to see more npc-s with better facial options even generated characters which using the operator creator faces with slightly tweaked version. No need to be all beautiful but they cannot say this is what we can provide because it is our vision on the game. I dont know their skill at making faces because if they want they could do better shapes both in body and both in faces also good character creators exists so they could lend ideas from. The copy pasting npc-s are a cheap way to fill the space with some meanings and content but to see 10 times the same face on other npcs are kinda illusion breaking. You accept the grineers ugliness because they are genetically degraded clones but on corpus you could see more variation since they are not clones but enslaved capitalists. Infested is good at it is maybe more variation in types and textures would do a lot to them but the corpus-grineer / other factions needs more facial type despite you shot most of them on the face so that not really matter. Minor thing but can helps. I myself have no problems with the different races because I can find (for my taste) beautiful faces. Also Datamass explained it well in his/her long post. Edited July 26, 2019 by Cleopatranikea 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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