Armor Scaling

[(XBOX)EchoPhilosophy]

Random thought I had, which was most likely thought of before but, what if armor scaling was more static instead of scaling exponentially. By that I mean separating damage reduction values into a 12 tier system (1 tier = 5% damage reduction.) NPCs would be placed into an armor tier based on their faction and archetype (ex. Grineer Heavy Gunners, Bombards, etc. would be in armor tier 10/50% DR while Corpus Techs, Bursas, etc. would be in tier 8/40% DR tier 11 and 12 are reserved for minibosses and bosses with exceptions like armor modifiers on sorties) the only thing that would scale up with their levels are their health and shield values meaning most of the time you come across one their damage reduction will be the same. Granted armor types and stuff still matter but enemies presumably wouldn't scale out of control.

The same could be applied to Warframes (ex. Chroma with max Steel Fiber without Vex Armor active would probably be at tier 8, with it active could maybe breach into tier 12 depending on the build.) Armor values would have to be adjusted based on tier requirements (1 tier every 250 armor and after 1000 or 2000 armor every 500 maybe?) but I think this system could solve the armor scaling issue to some extent.

Edit: Just to clarify, I came up with this keeping in mind that damage scaling for players and NPCs (and NPC health/shield scaling) would have to be retuned otherwise it would be pointless.

Edited September 26, 2019 by (XB1)EchoPhilosophy

[NekroArts]

49 minutes ago, (XB1)EchoPhilosophy said:

By that I mean separating damage reduction values into a 12 tier system (1 tier = 5% damage reduction.

Damaging reduction capping at 60% is small compare to how large our damage numbers can get.

49 minutes ago, (XB1)EchoPhilosophy said:

the only thing that would scale up with their levels are their health and shield values

This is literally bullet sponge, something the player base is not fond of.

49 minutes ago, (XB1)EchoPhilosophy said:

The same could be applied to Warframes (ex. Chroma with max Steel Fiber without Vex Armor active would probably be at tier 8, with it active could maybe breach into tier 12 depending on the build.) Armor values would have to be adjusted based on tier requirements (1 tier every 250 armor and after 1000 or 2000 armor every 500 maybe?) but I think this system could solve the armor scaling issue to some extent.

This one is just unnecessary because this encompass very few frames that can achieve high armor values over a nonissue (frames having too high armor) . Few will get to tier 3 (15% damage reduction); and even though they could with mods/buffs/and arcanes, it's not ideal to give up so much for armor when they're better off modding for their other stats.

Having high armor at our end is not an issue because most of the content that are there can be done with any frame. The high armor is just a preference; eventually that "high" armor will not matter because enemies damage will hit hard enough where it feels like an armor value of 15 (the lowest armor value in-game). Players will only experience this when they go for long endless missions, and by long I mean going beyond where we can normally start at.

[TheGrimCorsair]

1 hour ago, NekroArts said:

Damaging reduction capping at 60% is small compare to how large our damage numbers can get.

 

Nerf our damage numbers.

Also nerf how easy it is to get massive defense. It should be just about build-breaking to push more than about 50-75% DR for anyone. It's kind of a bad joke that so many frames easily reach 90% as it is, and many more are able to become ridiculously tanky just through a couple Arcanes and Adaptation.

[Avienas]

3 hours ago, (XB1)EchoPhilosophy said:

Random thought I had, which was most likely thought of before but, what if armor scaling was more static instead of scaling exponentially. By that I mean separating damage reduction values into a 12 tier system (1 tier = 5% damage reduction.) NPCs would be placed into an armor tier based on their faction and archetype (ex. Grineer Heavy Gunners, Bombards, etc. would be in armor tier 10/50% DR while Corpus Techs, Bursas, etc. would be in tier 8/40% DR tier 11 and 12 are reserved for minibosses and bosses with exceptions like armor modifiers on sorties) the only thing that would scale up with their levels are their health and shield values meaning most of the time you come across one their damage reduction will be the same. Granted armor types and stuff still matter but enemies presumably wouldn't scale out of control. The same could be applied to Warframes (ex. Chroma with max Steel Fiber without Vex Armor active would probably be at tier 8, with it active could maybe breach into tier 12 depending on the build.) Armor values would have to be adjusted based on tier requirements (1 tier every 250 armor and after 1000 or 2000 armor every 500 maybe?) but I think this system could solve the armor scaling issue to some extent.

(major late on the post due to RL issues)

Lots of text cluster, no spacing, brain has converted into micro-sludge trying to decipher, blargh.~

But in all honesty, the idea of a tier system to design what enemies get what on damage reduction then using a solid value might be nice, but then they would have to do one heck of a calculation redesign would be one heck of a messy bit, especially when it gets into various enemy types, unique resistance interactions, etc. They would also have to do it for every enemy in the game all at once to prevent any messie translations being done.

Honestly if they were to get it done smoothly and likely within one update with maybe room for further tweaks, it would be best done by simply giving a different kind of armor scaling with enemies and a unique interaction with armor stripping methods that would rip more damage reduction early instead of taking a while to lead to a strong impact with the reduction becoming significantly less as that number gets lower and it cannot go below 1 armor value to get rid of the issue where the health type for armor is completely removed, basically allowing damage bonus to still apply to the health and not outright removing its effectiveness when enemies are stripped red, aka what usually happens to Radiation & Corrosive types. Since having them turn red will remove the damage bonus, which could make it even worst then when the armor was completely on.

Edited September 22, 2019 by Avienas

[Yasha-7HS]

1 hour ago, TheGrimCorsair said:

 It's kind of a bad joke that so many frames easily reach 90% as it is

This fundamental misunderstanding of how Adaptation and damage works in this game makes it appalling that this comment exists. Sure, getting 90% fake DR is totally ez, just slap on a rank 2 gold mod and tank slightly higher low-tier mobs slightly longer. Though there are ways to actually make it to 90% and far above DR values, you completely ignore that they are, in-fact, build breaking unless the frame itself is made to tank. 

3 hours ago, (XB1)EchoPhilosophy said:

Random thought I had, which was most likely thought of before but, what if armor scaling was more static instead of scaling exponentially. By that I mean separating damage reduction values into a 12 tier system (1 tier = 5% damage reduction.) NPCs would be placed into an armor tier based on their faction and archetype (ex. Grineer Heavy Gunners, Bombards, etc. would be in armor tier 10/50% DR while Corpus Techs, Bursas, etc. would be in tier 8/40% DR tier 11 and 12 are reserved for minibosses and bosses with exceptions like armor modifiers on sorties) the only thing that would scale up with their levels are their health and shield values meaning most of the time you come across one their damage reduction will be the same. Granted armor types and stuff still matter but enemies presumably wouldn't scale out of control. 

But then you break the entire rest of the game with the fact that our damage values are still insane, and the quickest and most reasonable way to change that instead of changing the base mechanics of damage as a whole is to scale health values appropriately, making it the exact same scaling and the exact same issues of very few damage types being worth speccing. Instead of Corrosive against armored units, you've now made the meta viral to reduce the health pools instead of the armor value, and that's all this accomplishes. In-fact, to be completely honest, this makes build diversity and element matching so much less important that I'd question why it even exists for anything other than, say, Eidolons since the scaling factors of having two of the same source of weakness makes it very important to build into. 

 

Edited September 23, 2019 by ShichiseitenYasha

[Xzorn]

4 hours ago, ShichiseitenYasha said:

This fundamental misunderstanding of how Adaptation and damage works in this game makes it appalling that this comment exists.

 

• Chroma
• Nidus
• Nova
• Mesa
• Trinity
• Baruuk
• Gara
• Nekros
• Garuda
• Excal Umbra (From the front)
• Valkyr
• Literally anything using an Ancient Healer Specter

All these are 90%+ DR before Adaptation and I'm sure I missed one or two but then there's also the conditionally immortal frames like Zephyr, Hydroid, Hildryn or Volt. Though DR isn't everything. Armor based mitigation is considerably worse than buff based mitigation and the frame needs the health pool / recovery to back it up.

________________________________________

Much the same counts for enemies. Players often talk about armor scaling but if they're geared for dealing with armor then what the player feels is actually the raw health catching up with our absurd damage output. In the end Armor scaling is just a gating method to kill time. Eventually you don't even notice it compared to unarmored.

Changing armor and it's scaling properties is not a simple thing nor is it something that can be done without changing many other aspects of the game. ie Damage 3.0. Status effects, damage type double dips, health, shield, damage scaling, a lot of stuff which is why DE has done nothing in the past 6 years. At this point there's too much built on top of Damage 2.0 and would require a lot of work to fix. They should have addressed it's flaws when they knew about them a few months after it's release.

[Arcira]

I think armor should be somewhat of an anti area of effect alternative to nullifier bubbles. What this means is that armored enemies arn´t completely covered in armor they have weak points and direct hits at those spots apply the full damage. Anything that isn´t a projectile or can hit directly like for example Volt´s Discharge, the indirect detonation damage of explosive weapons, etc is 100% affected by damage reduction.

Alternatively defense mechanics could be buffed/adjusted in order to bring them in line with armor.

- Shields absorb all status effects and non damaging procs won´t have an effect e.g. you have to remove shields first in order to cc them. Magnetic procs get a new efffect where a small amount of your damage bypasses enemies shields for a short period of time and apply status effects (can stack which increases the % amount of damage that can bypass shields).

- Flesh get´s passive life regeneration properties and Infested flesh has a chance to cause reincarnation if you dont destroy corpses. Heat procs reduce regeneration values and destroy corpses.

- and finally a small nerf for armor where any damage type can reduce the armor value and reduce the damage reduction (corrosive is just much more effective).

Edited September 26, 2019 by Arcira

[TheKazz91]

I could see something like this I do think that it should go higher than just 60% but I could see something like this working. Corrosive procs could drop the enemies armor 4 tiers for 1 second stacking per proc and corrosive projection could lower all enemy armor tiers by 1 or 2.

[Avienas]

2 hours ago, TheKazz91 said:

I could see something like this I do think that it should go higher than just 60% but I could see something like this working. Corrosive procs could drop the enemies armor 4 tiers for 1 second stacking per proc and corrosive projection could lower all enemy armor tiers by 1 or 2.

Think i already did my rant poke but just to add to it, plenty of ways exist to address basically everything. Warframe shields serve no purpose unless its hildryn with not much to make its padding stand out unless you have a trinity specter who somehow spams the energy vampire augment and blessing often, Enemy armor needs some more weaknesses(such as how someone suggested making other damage types COULD peel armor but corosive would be more effective (aka have the strip effect have a neutral value and then get a huge value to how much armor is removed with corosive), especially if d.e. still plans to keep the rather absurd strength armor health types have.

Regular health types do not really need anything fancy though, could just have enemies with that health type get a higher base value or something but due to lacking DR, could be torn thru rather easy with concentrated attacks, especially with weakness elements.

Anyway just as someone also said, D.E. will likely never get around to actually addressing it since they waited so many years that the issue would be a massive redesign they would have to pull. Despite it would be beneficial if they were to simplify loads of elements and use the redesigned base to get things in proper order and could maybe use it for more creative interaction design, such as updating/replacing bad status effect types, for ones that help players more and are not as ridiculously strong AGAINST players(aka magnetic procs).

[(XBOX)Phantom Clip]

Meh, armor scaling is an issue for endless missions. 

Same time, it feels like health and shields scale about the same way in endless missions.

If you build correctly, your frame's survival will be a problem wayyy before armor scaling or dealing damage.

Especially if you have good melee build.

 

[Steel_Rook]

I'm with the OP on this one. Give enemies fixed armour values in the 100-600 range (100-300 for common enemies, 600 for particularly tough ones) and modulate their health and shields, instead. While this might result in the same kind of ridiculous bullet sponges, at least it reduces the impact of Corrosive Projection. Critters with over 90% damage resistance are not good design. They're a developer's desperate attempt to hold together a broken system operating well outside its intended value range. And while we're at it, can we please reduce the impact of damage types? +/-75% damage resistance per damage type, on top of +/-75% armour value creates such stupidly high variance in outgoing damage as to make the system feel almost random.

I'm fine with reducing player damage significantly. You can start by letting armour affect Slash procs and Finishers. You can continue by making all damage buffs - including critical hit damage and headshot damage - additive with each other. That right there should take care of weapons dealing over *200 their base damage on orange crits. Generally speaking, I'd like to normalise enemy EHP and player DPS to a great extent, because the scale of both exceeds the game's own mechanics.

[Xzorn]

11 hours ago, (XB1)Phantom Clip said:

Meh, armor scaling is an issue for endless missions. 

Same time, it feels like health and shields scale about the same way in endless missions.

If you build correctly, your frame's survival will be a problem wayyy before armor scaling or dealing damage.

Especially if you have good melee build.

 

All true though I wouldn't say Armor scaling is an issue for long runs. Endurance runners know which weapons work and which don't. It's players than hang out at lvl 100 or so who get confused when a weapon that just performs poorly against armor stops working because enemy health caught up with raw damage output.

When you run with heavy status weapons like Torrid you get an even less noticeable difference in kill times between Armored and Unarmored as enemies scale. All Armor does is essentially go "You need X procs before damage starts to push through" and that X variable doesn't really go up much even into 1,000's in levels.

Players don't believe me when I tell them there's no noticeable difference in kill time between a lvl 400 Corpus Tech and a lvl 400 Bombard. Just like when I say Trinity is a good melee frame since melee damage output is so massive the biggest eHP pool you can get is the best balance.

In the end; a ton of otherwise useful weapons would never get used if just armor scaling were changed.

[Zekkii]

20 minutes ago, Xzorn said:

 

All true though I wouldn't say Armor scaling is an issue for long runs. Endurance runners know which weapons work and which don't. It's players than hang out at lvl 100 or so who get confused when a weapon that just performs poorly against armor stops working because enemy health caught up with raw damage output.

When you run with heavy status weapons like Torrid you get an even less noticeable difference in kill times between Armored and Unarmored as enemies scale. All Armor does is essentially go "You need X procs before damage starts to push through" and that X variable doesn't really go up much even into 1,000's in levels.

Players don't believe me when I tell them there's no noticeable difference in kill time between a lvl 400 Corpus Tech and a lvl 400 Bombard. Just like when I say Trinity is a good melee frame since melee damage output is so massive the biggest eHP pool you can get is the best balance.

In the end; a ton of otherwise useful weapons would never get used if just armor scaling were changed.

So it's okay that weapons are restricted to bleed or corrosive builds?  Do you have any idea how many weapons are removed from viability because of poor status chance?

[(XBOX)Phantom Clip]

18 minutes ago, Xzorn said:

 

All true though I wouldn't say Armor scaling is an issue for long runs. Endurance runners know which weapons work and which don't. It's players than hang out at lvl 100 or so who get confused when a weapon that just performs poorly against armor stops working because enemy health caught up with raw damage output.

When you run with heavy status weapons like Torrid you get an even less noticeable difference in kill times between Armored and Unarmored as enemies scale. All Armor does is essentially go "You need X procs before damage starts to push through" and that X variable doesn't really go up much even into 1,000's in levels.

Players don't believe me when I tell them there's no noticeable difference in kill time between a lvl 400 Corpus Tech and a lvl 400 Bombard. Just like when I say Trinity is a good melee frame since melee damage output is so massive the biggest eHP pool you can get is the best balance.

In the end; a ton of otherwise useful weapons would never get used if just armor scaling were changed.

 

I could have said that better. I meant armor scaling is a SUBJECT for endless missions. It's the only place in which armor scales. Everywhere else , enemy armor is set value. 

 

I agree. I run arbitration grineer survival for 1 hour using nidus and nikana prime. With enough status chance,  bombard and nox lv 150+ just melt away. 

[(XBOX)Phantom Clip]

12 minutes ago, Zekkii said:

So it's okay that weapons are restricted to bleed or corrosive builds?  Do you have any idea how many weapons are removed from viability because of poor status chance?

You get 3 weapons to use. Any one weapon can be made to strip armor. Plus warframe abilities and aura to help lower armor.

You also get bots that can help lower/strip armor. Kavats can completely strip armor per target.

 

[Xzorn]

6 hours ago, Zekkii said:

So it's okay that weapons are restricted to bleed or corrosive builds?  Do you have any idea how many weapons are removed from viability because of poor status chance?

 

When you're fighting a specific faction I don't see a problem using certain tactics. It's hardly restricting the weapon entirely.

DE using Armor as a crutch mechanic is what causes problems. The aforementioned gating mechanism to kill times to allow enemies that would otherwise become vapor in 0.2 seconds to last a second longer. Armor as a mechanic should be restricted to Grineer and Boss units which... it mostly is. Bursa are probably the biggest foul.

If you want to go by the base Damage system and not consider abilities, augments, mods, ect that allow us to work with Armor then even changing Armor to tiers, static, linear or whatever would still maintain Corrosive / Bleed as the dominant damage types to use. The others would simply suck a little less and so nothing would really change. That's why I was saying we can't simply change Armor. The entire Damage system, scaling and everything in between has to be changed.

[Avienas]

16 minutes ago, Xzorn said:

When you're fighting a specific faction I don't see a problem using certain tactics. It's hardly restricting the weapon entirely.

DE using Armor as a crutch mechanic is what causes problems. The aforementioned gating mechanism to kill times to allow enemies that would otherwise become vapor in 0.2 seconds to last a second longer. Armor as a mechanic should be restricted to Grineer and Boss units which... it mostly is. Bursa are probably the biggest foul.

If you want to go by the base Damage system and not consider abilities, augments, mods, ect that allow us to work with Armor then even changing Armor to tiers, static, linear or whatever would still maintain Corrosive / Bleed as the dominant damage types to use. The others would simply suck a little less and so nothing would really change. That's why I was saying we can't simply change Armor. The entire Damage system, scaling and everything in between has to be changed.

Likely due to me playing alot of Borderlands 3 this month, but i find Borderlands is less of a hassle with elements by keeping them absurdly simple. health types function the same but its when you use the incorrect element that causes the damage resistance issue, such as using heat damage on armor types.

Not to mention despite the fact they kept cyro and introduced radiation to BL3, its only fire/electric/corossive/cold/radiation, plus you can run up to 4 guns at a time with some having the ability to toggle between 2 elements freely. Plus even if a weapon does not have elemental properties, it can still bash thru health types, not be completely gated like when your on mayhem mode 3 in BL3 and enemies got 50% damage resistance BONUS to whatever else they have.

In warframe`s case you have 3 physical types, 4 single types and 6 dual type combinations (least that i can remember off the top of my head), meaning you have an absurd number of damage types to keep track of at times, yet its a hassle to where it can take 1/4th of your mod bench just to achieve the mandatory dual elemental you need or get screwed quite over if you are trying to use no elemental without some blood rush critical abuse build to compensate. Though it does help Borderlands 3 does not have you having to customize the weapons and you can just pick up any gun you see and start unloading with it, not to mention you can change weapons during combat if it ever gets to that case.

TL;DR: Warframe needs to tigthen up what gets what health types, make armor have the downside where even if grineer get major DR from it, they have low regular health to where they will get especially melted fast due to their degenerated clone bodies if any armor stripping occur and of course make it especially so you can use some other dual elementals with a good deal of effectiveness against grineer. Just like how Gas & Viral work well against infested and Magnetic & Radiation will wrek Corpus. Shame i do not recall Blast being much of a element considered, when normally when you think of explosions, you think of the kind of stuff that could wreck the heck out of armor plating or cause a impact so strong, it could shake up the armored individual in their suit, likely to cause all sorts of internal damage, but thats just me musing i guess.

[Uhkretor]

8 minutes ago, Avienas said:

normally when you think of explosions, you think of the kind of stuff that could wreck the heck out of armor plating or cause a impact so strong

Like Torgue?

[Zekkii]

3 hours ago, Xzorn said:

When you're fighting a specific faction I don't see a problem using certain tactics. It's hardly restricting the weapon entirely.

DE using Armor as a crutch mechanic is what causes problems. The aforementioned gating mechanism to kill times to allow enemies that would otherwise become vapor in 0.2 seconds to last a second longer. Armor as a mechanic should be restricted to Grineer and Boss units which... it mostly is. Bursa are probably the biggest foul.

If you want to go by the base Damage system and not consider abilities, augments, mods, ect that allow us to work with Armor then even changing Armor to tiers, static, linear or whatever would still maintain Corrosive / Bleed as the dominant damage types to use. The others would simply suck a little less and so nothing would really change. That's why I was saying we can't simply change Armor. The entire Damage system, scaling and everything in between has to be changed.

It shouldn't be difficult to see why is makes some weapons significantly outperform other weapons.  Guns with high status chance and high fire rate are good at removing armor, and thus get fast time to kill on high health targets.  The dozens and dozens of weapons without those features will fall behind, even when modded for corrosive or bleed.  Even worse than that are damaging abilities, which cannot be modded for corrosive and become largely worthless against high level armored targets.

There's no issue with Corrosive outperforming other damage types against heavily armored targets, but it becomes an issue when it's by a factor of fifty or more.  At most, armor should reduce incoming damage by a factor of 3 or 4.  Such a value would still allow players to be significantly rewarded for removing armor without making other damage types useless.  Then if you want them to be tankier, just give them more health.

[Xzorn]

4 hours ago, Avienas said:

TL;DR: Warframe needs to tigthen up what gets what health types, make armor have the downside where even if grineer get major DR from it, they have low regular health to where they will get especially melted fast due to their degenerated clone bodies if any armor stripping occur and of course make it especially so you can use some other dual elementals with a good deal of effectiveness against grineer. Just like how Gas & Viral work well against infested and Magnetic & Radiation will wrek Corpus. Shame i do not recall Blast being much of a element considered, when normally when you think of explosions, you think of the kind of stuff that could wreck the heck out of armor plating or cause a impact so strong, it could shake up the armored individual in their suit, likely to cause all sorts of internal damage, but thats just me musing i guess.

 

Don't worry DE has been dumbing down the damage system pretty well with new content by taking away our options through damage, status and ability immunity. When it comes to new content the choices are pretty basic. Even before that there were clear choices.

Impact has always been useless. Puncture is only okay with low status weapons and Slash being ideal. So there's only 1 physical damage type really.
Radiation / Blast are CC damage types. They're not really for damage.
Heat is CC, Electric / Cold are CC + Damage hybrids. Magnetic is worthless and the rest is damage based on the weapon's stats.

From the start up until The War Within the damage types were per faction or weapon type. You didn't need to swap to deal with different health types so even though there are options and the options can be complex late game you're still only building against one health type at a time and as mentioned they've been taking many of those options away.

@Zekkii The same could be argued for these high status weapons which would otherwise have no value. I laugh every time DE increases my Torrid's Riven disposition just knowing how much it trivializes Armored enemies. Same with Synapse, Zarr and multiple other Elemental status weapons. We're just switching the board around. The problem doesn't get fixed in terms of weapon viability it would likely be worse in fact. Why would I ever use something like Pox if I don't need to strip as much armor?

[Zekkii]

12 minutes ago, Xzorn said:

The same could be argued for these high status weapons which would otherwise have no value. I laugh every time DE increases my Torrid's Riven disposition just knowing how much it trivializes Armored enemies. Same with Synapse, Zarr and multiple other Elemental status weapons. We're just switching the board around. The problem doesn't get fixed in terms of weapon viability it would likely be worse in fact. Why would I ever use something like Pox if I don't need to strip as much armor?

Because multiplying your damage by three or four is still incredible.  Even against unarmored targets, Elemental Weapons are still very good for DoT effects, crowd control, and/or Viral.  Even without armor, high status weapons are most universally the strongest weapons when you know what you're doing.

[Avienas]

5 hours ago, Zekkii said:

Because multiplying your damage by three or four is still incredible.  Even against unarmored targets, Elemental Weapons are still very good for DoT effects, crowd control, and/or Viral.  Even without armor, high status weapons are most universally the strongest weapons when you know what you're doing.

Exactly, a 25~75% damage bonus helps alot, but even gets further boosted when you are using status effects that actually give an impact such as gas, which for those uneducated, deals your base damage times the toxin multiplier(the latter divided by 2), then dump out a gas cloud of multiple ticks with a formula similar to the first one, when it status procs. 

Same logic applying to Viral since if a enemy has its health cut in half, is basically like the same as multiplying your damage alot, even if that debuff is only temp (but if your re-procing it multiple times then why does that time limit matter then?).

Radiation is just honestly the catch all when you are not dealing with mostly mid-high grineer enemies(cause screw armor scaling), which if fissure did not throw basically every enemy type at you (except sentients obviously), your not really using it for its CC function but for the fact it will not be hitting much downsides unless its half the health types of infested enemies, but at least since they are usually not barricaded with absurd armor, the damage penalty will not be hurting you as much.

[Xzorn]

16 hours ago, Zekkii said:

Because multiplying your damage by three or four is still incredible.  Even against unarmored targets, Elemental Weapons are still very good for DoT effects, crowd control, and/or Viral.  Even without armor, high status weapons are most universally the strongest weapons when you know what you're doing.

 

Not sure what that first comment is supposed to mean.

The second claim is not accurate for majority of elemental based status weapons. Melee is the major exception due to a stupidly designed mod that was for all intense purposes completely unnecessary based on how Armor scales. Instead of a pure status melee like Lacera holding strong position as an armor melting weapon we have players with a buncha hybrids trying to stack as much nonsense status effects as possible with little complexity or understanding to the concepts behind it.

The only status effects worth anything for DPS on a status based weapon is Gas / Electric, not Viral and even still on average more damage output is coming from the damage modifier not the Viral status effect. Far as CC value goes DE and this community made sure CC has little relevance in the game anymore but the status effects for CC work fine and have nothing to do with comparative damage for armor since you don't need to proc Heat or Blast 20 times a second.

I'm not against or for changing Armor scaling. I'm just saying it cannot be done in the actual game without changing a lot of other things. It would throw the game into havoc and if it's even possible at this point would also make the game even easier. We can already deal with level cap enemies offensively, defensively, armored or unarmored. The game is essentially already over when it comes to scaling. The hardest part is staying awake.

[(XBOX)GodMasterTP]

On 2019-09-22 at 8:05 PM, TheGrimCorsair said:

Nerf our damage numbers.

Also nerf how easy it is to get massive defense. It should be just about build-breaking to push more than about 50-75% DR for anyone. It's kind of a bad joke that so many frames easily reach 90% as it is, and many more are able to become ridiculously tanky just through a couple Arcanes and Adaptation.

Then everything would go back to state 0. Please, analyse the things you say.

[000l000]

Le 22/09/2019 à 23:51, NekroArts a dit :

This is literally bullet sponge, something the player base is not fond of.

Not really, less armor and more health won't make you struggle to kill them. It'll only make corrosive less mandatory cause every other damage type won't be mitigate by an absurd amount.

Tbh heavily armoured enemies already are bullet spongs, bombards, nox or gunners are definitely bullet sponges. Anyway, armor scaling is going to be reworked so maybe they'll rework how elements work too. I'm tired of gearing corrosive or viral/slash all day long, gearing is fun until you gear everything the same way.