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Trading improvements

AureliusVarro

By AureliusVarro,
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AureliusVarro

AureliusVarro

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The platinum economics in warframe is great as of itself, allowing players to buy things they have a hard time farming from other players, or selling some unnecessary items for platinum to spend on cosmetics, but the trade system feels quite clumsy.

So to trade, a player has to:

  1.  find someone willing to buy their stuff with the help of the overcrowded trade chat, Maroo's bazaar or third-party services like warframe.market 
  2. invite the buyer to dojo or Maroo's bazaar if not there already
  3. find trading post or each other
  4. find the stuff in question in inventory (it became easier with new ui, but still)
  5. finally trade

All that takes time and interferes with actually playing the game as it needs personal attention for a relatively long time.

There are some ideas to improve trading experience: 

  • In-chat selling:
  1. Player 1 wants to sell stuff
  2. They write a trade offer message like [ item | price ] in trade or personal chat. 
  3. They confirm that offer is correct via popup window and pretty 
  4. Player 2 sees the message, wants to buy item for price and clicks the message. 
  5. They see item preview like with [item] links, but with a buy option
  6. If they want to buy, they click the corresponding button
  7. Player 1 gets platinum from Player 2, 
  • Passive trading post with /dojo clan command* 
  1. Player 1 wants to sell a lot of stuff, has a dojo with a trading post
  2. They go to the trading post and put items there as in inventory menu, but they also have assign prices in platinum
  3.  And they can do whatever they want, even close the game
  4. Player 2 somehow, via warframe.market or featured dojos or that command can visit Player 1's dojo and buy stuff they want as in "in-chat selling" above
  5. Player 1 gets platinum when items are sold

* The command is meant to allow players to visit dojos. Idk what is the best way to implement this. Maybe it will require an in-game catalogue or warframe.market links could utilize the command...

Thank you for attention) 

UPD: turns out there is a post already 

 

 

 

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AureliusVarro

AureliusVarro

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On 2019-09-27 at 9:11 PM, Tangent-Valley said:

I, for one, can't wait to purchase Veiled Rivens and Condition Overload/Maiming Strike for 2p each. (5p for x3 if I find someone desperate) /s

Warframe.market exists, so whatever "tanking" would happen with plat economy already happened. The only difference is frustration of 2 loading screens and mission abortion, courtesy of active trade system.

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18 minutes ago, AureliusVarro said:

Why, how and why is it a bad thing? I do want to get some feedback on the idea of more streamlined trading

People would use bots to instantly snipe all the best deals and re-sell them for a higher price. Thus, asshats would generate loads plat without lifting a finger while legit players would have no hope of getting anything for a reasonable price.

AFAIK that was actually one of the big reasons Diablo 3's auction house failed.

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AureliusVarro

AureliusVarro

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On 2019-09-27 at 9:57 PM, peterc3 said:

Passive trading would only happen if Plat becomes untradable and is no longer used as the trading currency. You either buy it or go out of your way to get it from other people.

Again, why is the ability to earn platinum in-game a bad thing? Even from game revenue perspective, plat is bought to trade for prime stuff or mods even more often than for store items (as far as I noticed), and doesn't lose it's value, as platinum can't be earned purely in-game, only bought or traded. Also there are fashionframe and slots that remove platinum from circulation, that is act as a currency sink. So I think it's a really good economy model, as it is. Aside from frustrating trade process. Can we agree that meaningless frustration is a generally bad thing, and should be dealt with?

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AureliusVarro

AureliusVarro

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7 minutes ago, Pr1A said:

People would use bots to instantly snipe all the best deals and re-sell them for a higher price. Thus, asshats would generate loads plat without lifting a finger while legit players would have no hope of getting anything for a reasonable price.

AFAIK that was actually one of the big reasons Diablo 3's auction house failed.

For this thing to happen, there has to be an open API for bots to get information from. Also, as I think it would work, chat purchase links are as safe as currently existing system, only less loading screens.

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AureliusVarro

AureliusVarro

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4 minutes ago, peterc3 said:

Your assertion that it is meaningless is the issue.

Can we talk about it? 

I may be wrong, but I don't get, how it isn't meaningless. The active trade system as it is now does nothing to make people socialize. I think that was the reason DE decided not to change it. But it doesn't work as intended, it only create frustration for economically active players, buyers or sellers, while not doing anything good for any aspect of the game. Again, AFAIK. Therefore it's nothing but meaningless.

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Avienas

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On 2019-09-27 at 1:58 PM, Pr1A said:

And the economy would promptly get f*cked by bots.

Technically tracker bots already fking it, remember the semlar incident with the so-called riven mafia messing with him?

 

On 2019-09-27 at 2:26 PM, bad4youLT said:

DE said many times they dont want "pasive / automated trading" and will not implement sometihng as this

Does not have to be COMPLETELY automated, one of my latest ideas in a earlier thread was automating the chat portion. namely:

  1. Player sets up a repeat message that will keep posting every 1 minute in market chat.
  2. People can click said message and press a button and type a comment to `ping` the automated message poster to show they are interested in the item.
  3. Player who set up the message would get the ping in the form of a pop up to the side (like near the night wave message), they can click it and hit accept on it or hit decline to show the person they are not interested in. Plus it has a small mini-menu system to browse the comments to sift thru which was the better offer.
  4. If the people got a accept message then they can head to dojo and prepare to start chatting with the person. If they got the decline message whether due to the person hitting no or the ping message wait timed out.

Final result: Same as both players get into the dojo and do the trade acceptance. Exception with the former not having to repeatedly spam the message over and over themselves for the most part and they could be focused on fishing/mining/fashion frame, fissure missions, etc. Honestly just this alone would keep the exact same system but greatly cut the market chat hassle and neither player has to camp prompt backs since whoever hit the ping would very likely not be afk and if they are afk it would be easy for the person to just move on with less issue. People still have to browse the market chat to do the pings anyway to boot.

 

11 minutes ago, peterc3 said:

Your assertion that it is meaningless is the issue.

Its technically meaningless if you never got a sale to begin with. Plus if one has to spend more then 5-10 minutes just to sell a prime set at 30 plat for cripes sake is kind of meaningless after that point since your getting so little plat you would likely be better off selling 30 prime junk instead. I could list what i believe are the prices that hit the point which make the seller of said items had their effort properly paid off at how long it takes to farm said parts. Which for prime sets would roughly be 90~120 plat, mostly at 100, AFTER it hits it hype point, now we got people demanding them in the 30 to 40s and it was more of a recent thing on that then compared to before that it was kind of a general idea you could sell a entire 4 piece prime set at about 100 plat for a couple of years.

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12 minutes ago, AureliusVarro said:

For this thing to happen, there has to be an open API for bots to get information from. Also, as I think it would work, chat purchase links are as safe as currently existing system, only less loading screens.

I bet Blizzard had all sorts of countermeasures to prevent Diablo's AH from being abused but the botters still found a way.

The current system requires quite a lot of user interaction (invites to dojo, opening trade terminal/accepting the request etc.) Something as simple as "click the chat link and confirm" would be much more vulnerable. At very least it would require a very secure CAPTCHA system.

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Avienas

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Just now, Pr1A said:

I bet Blizzard had all sorts of countermeasures to prevent Diablo's AH from being abused but the botters still found a way.

The current system requires quite a lot of user interaction (invites to dojo, opening trade terminal/accepting the request etc. Something as simple as "click the chat link and confirm" would be much more vulnerable. At very least it would require a very secure CAPTCHA system.

Hence why i just put the suggestion of just automating the chat message portion of trading, it still would require the original poster to it the accept back and one of the two parties heading to the dojo to invite the other to the dojo to do the trade, can`t really automate a bot unless it can somehow catch calls like when to accept a dojo invite, if they got a decline instead, if they can put plat in the trade message or put the items in the trade box.

 

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AureliusVarro

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15 minutes ago, Pr1A said:

I bet Blizzard had all sorts of countermeasures to prevent Diablo's AH from being abused but the botters still found a way.

I looked through some articles on that topic and didn't find anything on bots. It would be great to know if there was any way to access the auction from a website or something. Or some actual evidence of diablo trade bots existing. Couldn't find any.

The more noticeable issue, however, is the inflation. And bad design in general. Diablo's AH used gold (a counterpart of credits) as a trade currency. Y'know, that currency you can earn millions of after a couple of index runs. So of course it collapsed.

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Xzorn

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8 hours ago, AureliusVarro said:

I looked through some articles on that topic and didn't find anything on bots. It would be great to know if there was any way to access the auction from a website or something. Or some actual evidence of diablo trade bots existing. Couldn't find any.

 

There were 100% without a doubt tons of bots on D3's AH system towards the end. I doubt you will find much information about Blizzard doing anything about them because they didn't. Why would they? They got a % of every transaction. The bots for leveling Bliz would ban every once in a while.

Archage, WoW, Rift, GW2...  Pretty much every game with an AH system gets bots. F2P games get the worst of it since the only way to really hinder profit boting is to make sure it's not a profit gain for the boter to buy another copy of the game or cover their expenses. Long as they make free money they will do it relentlessly.

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5 hours ago, Xzorn said:

There were 100% without a doubt tons of bots on D3's AH system towards the end

Could you, please, provide any actual evidence of trading software for D3 aside from D3 itself? For as I found out, "bots" were either a boogieman or another name for human frauds/monopolists/resellers

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Xzorn

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6 hours ago, AureliusVarro said:

Could you, please, provide any actual evidence of trading software for D3 aside from D3 itself? For as I found out, "bots" were either a boogieman or another name for human frauds/monopolists/resellers

 

Well, Tip #1 Don't use google if you're trying to find something scrupulous in nature.
They tend to do a decent job of filtering unless you know the exact name of the thing you're looking for.

I tried to link mostly videos but some are sites so I'd make sure addblock is on.

Spoiler

Krip talking about the bots.

Bot Scripts:

https://www.ros-bot.com/forums/general-discussion/re-bot-63735

https://www.ownedcore.com/forums/diablo-3/diablo-3-bots-programs/d3-leveling-profiles/374148-autoit-another-a3q4-levelbot-800x600.html

 

Both AH and Gold farming bots I found in like 10 min and those bots value is long gone. It would probably also help to VPN Russian or Chinese sites since that's where majority of bots in video games come from but I'm not going through that much trouble for a dead and well known problem.

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On 2019-09-29 at 11:55 PM, (PS4)Black-Cat-Jinx said:

It opens a trade invite dialog from wherever you are, you trade, you go back to what you were doing.

It's good for solo, but in coop it can be annoying and irrelevant due to, including but not limited to, host migration. It still takes time, breaks the flow and takes too many loading screens. IMHO, it would be better if it was possible to do it via a dialog like a party invite. Maybe some form of captcha would be needed to enshure safety...

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