Parazon kills almost never happen because everything dies too fast

[PikeOrShield]

There is so much damage flying around from teammates or damage over time effects that parazon kills rarely become an option at higher levels. The new mods are cool, but become way too unreliable to trigger since it's so rare to pull of the mercy kill.

I think a fix for this would be to give enemies a small chance (~5-10%) to stay open to a parazon kill even after taking lethal damage if they die near a tenno. For example:

Crewman Bob is 2 meters away from a tenno when he gets cut by a nikana that inflicts a slash proc. His health is low enough to expose him to a mercy kill, but before he can be killed with the parazon, he bleeds out from the slash proc and dies. However, since he died next to a tenno, he has a small chance to still be open to the parazon kill for a couple seconds after his "death". He still dies after a couple seconds regardless of whether or not he is mercy killed.

A system like this would give players the opportunity to pursue mercy kills if they desire or ignore the target who is already dead and keep moving.

[Skaleek]

Yeah i'm still rooting around looking for a parazon kill. Am i doing it wrong?

[PikeOrShield]

27 minutes ago, Skaleek said:

Yeah i'm still rooting around looking for a parazon kill. Am i doing it wrong?

Probably not. Enemies just need to be at a low health level for a short amount of time. It triggers all the time when I play Saryn, but the window is so short I can never pull them off.

[BansheePrime]

I'd say it would work pretty well if the random mercy kills on normal enemies triggered the same way as on thralls. Invuln to outside damage and death after a few seconds if ignored.

Edited November 1, 2019 by BansheePrime

[PikeOrShield]

42 minutes ago, BansheePrime said:

I'd say it would work pretty well if the random mercy kills on normal enemies triggered the same way as on thralls. Invuln to outside damage and death after a few seconds if ignored.

Didn't know how thralls worked, but if that's how it works, that's exactly what I want, just on random units who die nearby.

[GrimAtrament]

oh so i wasn't the only one that oh look parazon kill op--oh it's dead already.

[Titanxo]

I like the idea of making them invulnerable for a bit and with the exception that it has to be close to tenno. I'd also like to add that it should not increase the chance of occurring just give a protection when it does. With the new melee mechanics it favors swinging crazy and if every enemy just didn't die for a second or two would get quite annoying. Having it occur close to tenno would be good to make sure the map didn't get cluttered with invulnerable bullet sponges for a short duration.

[LSG501]

I've literally managed one parazon kill on normal enemies because as said they're usually dead before I can get to them... and to be honest I'm not in any rush to do it anyway because of the animation.

When DE first announced the parazon I actually thought it was going to be used for finishers on normal enemies, especially with the nerf to covert lethality (and talk of it being a parazon mod), not just this 'mercy' kill.... IMO mercy is currently just another flashy add on for the newbies to see in videos but actually isn't that helpful in real terms when it comes to melee...

Part of the issue is the 5% health before the sims symbol pops up at which point they're not going to last long. 

[Educated_Beast]

This is a horrible idea.  Parazon kills are interesting now in the puppy stage.  But those puppies are going to grow into animals that crap all over the place.  

Do you really want enemies all over the map going invulnerable?  

If you want reliable parazon kills, get a Warframe that opens up finishers like inaros #1, then walk up to them and press X.  

I do not like the pressing x, when it used to be E, but I may just remap it to a mouse button to avoid the acqward x after energy / melee.

[PikeOrShield]

8 minutes ago, Educated_Beast said:

Do you really want enemies all over the map going invulnerable?

Read the post before you call the idea horrible.

This would only happen to a small percentage of enemies who die NEAR you and they will go down after a couple of seconds, whether or not they are mercy killed.

[Educated_Beast]

7 minutes ago, PikeOrShield said:

Read the post before you call the idea horrible.

This would only happen to a small percentage of enemies who die NEAR you and they will go down after a couple of seconds, whether or not they are mercy killed.

I read it, it is a horrible idea.  I'll give you an example, you go melee into a group and kill 10 little minions who then go invincible.  Now you pull out your pistol to shoot at the guy on roof but can't because your blocked by a bunch of zombies.  

It's a bad idea.  Just do finishers, press X, same as always.  

[PikeOrShield]

1 minute ago, Educated_Beast said:

I read it, it is a horrible idea.  I'll give you an example, you go melee into a group and kill 10 little minions who then go invincible.  Now you pull out your pistol to shoot at the guy on roof but can't because your blocked by a bunch of zombies.  

It's a bad idea.  Just do finishers, press X, same as always.  

Read the post again. If you kill 10 minions and they have a 5-10% chance of this happening, odds are only one of them will be like this, not all 10. 

It's okay to have difficulty reading, but please put in some effort so your responses are better informed.

[Educated_Beast]

If that one is the one in your way, it's a problem. Also, 10% can spawn all 10, that's how RNG works.  Over a mission with hundreds of kills per player, little shot blockers would be spawning all over.  Since we have progressed to insults, that's how math works.  

It is uninteresting, unreliable, and creates more issues than some special kill to drop an energy orb or go invisible for a few seconds.  Want reliable parazon kills, use finishers.  

[Akagi_7331]

Le 07/11/2019 à 18:14, Educated_Beast a dit :

This is a horrible idea.  Parazon kills are interesting now in the puppy stage.  But those puppies are going to grow into animals that crap all over the place.  

Do you really want enemies all over the map going invulnerable?  

If you want reliable parazon kills, get a Warframe that opens up finishers like inaros #1, then walk up to them and press X.  

I do not like the pressing x, when it used to be E, but I may just remap it to a mouse button to avoid the acqward x after energy / melee.

Problem ist with inaros 1 you open them up to meele kills not parazon if i remember correctly

[(PSN)AbBaNdOn_]

Im on console and im not sure normal enemies were suppose to get marked for mercy kills....  feels like a bug.   

-They die before you can get to them

-The ones I have killed do not grant murmurs ??

-------------

Rando enemies should have a % chance to be a mercy kill.   When the game determines they have been marked they should 100% be immune from damage.   And they should 100% grant murmurs.

You are in murmur missions to FARM murmurs.   Outside of murmur missions the chance for random enemies to be marked for mercy could be waaay less so it doesnt mess up peoples precious affinity or whatever.   I guess I would be fine with excluding random enemies from getting Marked ANYWHERE outside Lich controlled turf missions.  

[(XBOX)Tucker D Dawg]

They should just change it to any stealth kill - be it inaros, sleepquinox, ivara... are executed with parazon.  I was sad puppy when i realized none of the parazon mods worked when running around steathly

Of course that will complete the breaking of stealth affinity (which we on console at least) can ONLY get with melee weapons so they would have to award the parazon affinity to the equipped melee.  And fix stealth affinity with guns while their at it >.>

And I agree with @Educated_Beast  - I don't want random enemies being invulnerable EVER.  blocking doorways, shots, etc.  Or being that random eximus leech, ancient healer ....

 

[(XBOX)Tucker D Dawg]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)AbBaNdOn_ said:

The ones I have killed do not grant murmurs ??

Only thralls grant murmurs.  This is a general post about triggering parazon mods

 

3 minutes ago, (PS4)AbBaNdOn_ said:

You are in murmur missions to FARM murmurs

Again - no, all thralls will only be killed with mercy kills as it stands now.  This is about general missions not lich hunting. But we want to be able to trigger mercy kills more reliably (WITHOUT INVICIBILITY PL0X)

Edited November 27, 2019 by (XB1)Tucker D Dawg

[5H4DE]

On 2019-11-07 at 7:14 PM, Educated_Beast said:

This is a horrible idea.  Parazon kills are interesting now in the puppy stage.  But those puppies are going to grow into animals that crap all over the place.  

Do you really want enemies all over the map going invulnerable?  

If you want reliable parazon kills, get a Warframe that opens up finishers like inaros #1, then walk up to them and press X.  

I do not like the pressing x, when it used to be E, but I may just remap it to a mouse button to avoid the acqward x after energy / melee.

Not how it works, normal finishers are done with your melee and don't trigger parazon mods.

[(PSN)Aneres_Omega]

25 minutes ago, (XB1)Tucker D Dawg said:

They should just change it to any stealth kill - be it inaros, sleepquinox, ivara... are executed with parazon.  I was sad puppy when i realized none of the parazon mods worked when running around steathly

No

I like watching the stealth kill animation of each weapon type, keeps things from getting old.

Tired of single sword stealth kilks? Swap to another type to keep it fresh.

Besides shanking an enemy with a wrist dagger would get old real fast.

How about an option to toggle between equiped melee weapon & Parazon for stealth kills?

Your way is just flat out selfish, while mine isn't.

Bit off topic but come to think of it I don't use my WF for hacking any more since the introduction of the Parazon, animation is a tad to long for my taste so I just use my tenno to hack, so I haven't used the Parazon more than once, lol.

[(XBOX)Tucker D Dawg]

1 minute ago, (PS4)Aneres_Omega said:

How about an option to toggle between equiped melee weapon & Parazon for stealth kills?

Your way is just flat out selfish, while mine isn't.

selfish is a bit harsh but thats a better solution in any event.

They should add a stealth kill speed mod for parazon while their at it  - its slow compared to a well modded CL dagger of old.

[Steel_Rook]

On 2019-11-07 at 7:14 PM, Educated_Beast said:

If you want reliable parazon kills, get a Warframe that opens up finishers like inaros #1, then walk up to them and press X.  

That triggers a finisher with your melee weapon, not a Parazon mercy kill.

On topic:
I'm still of the opinion that enemies need to become subject to Mercy Kills when their health is depleted. If an enemy is "killed" and the game rolls for a Mercy Kill, make that enemy invulnerable to damage for 5 seconds. If nobody uses a Parazon on them in that time, they just die on their own. Simple, effective and it actually gives the thing SOME kind of use.

[(PSN)Aneres_Omega]

7 minutes ago, (XB1)Tucker D Dawg said:

selfish is a bit harsh but thats a better solution in any event.

They should add a stealth kill speed mod for parazon while their at it  - its slow compared to a well modded CL dagger of old.

I guess I was a bit harsh, my apology.

 

2 minutes ago, Steel_Rook said:

That triggers a finisher with your melee weapon, not a Parazon mercy kill.

On topic:
I'm still of the opinion that enemies need to become subject to Mercy Kills when their health is depleted. If an enemy is "killed" and the game rolls for a Mercy Kill, make that enemy invulnerable to damage for 5 seconds. If nobody uses a Parazon on them in that time, they just die on their own. Simple, effective and it actually gives the thing SOME kind of use.

Who's kill would that belong to then?

Remember kill counts matters to things like NW, more so if you need to kill things via elemental kills such as ice, electric, ect.

Your suggestion would screw that up big time.

[(XBOX)Tucker D Dawg]

 

or just increasing the amount of remaining health (ie making them available for mercy sooner) to like 1/2 health (capped at whatever dmg the parazon is currently capable of doing) - so they can be running around as normal, taking damage as normal, they're just open to mercy kills sooner so we have more time.

[(PSN)Aneres_Omega]

Having an option to toggle between the two would be easier and those with Parazon toggled on could stealth mercy kill whenever they want.

[Teridax68]

Reasons why Mercies suck:

1. We kill enemies so quickly as a baseline that, even in higher levels, we will usually kill enemies before we even notice the option to Mercy them.
2. The Mercy window is generally too low, and our Mercy mods too insignificant for it to be worth even attempting an execution.
3. Even when stealth-killing enemies, our regular attacks enhanced by stealth damage are usually enough to kill enemies, and often quicker too.
4. Mercies aren't actually that great for stealth-killing, because we can't do anything else when going through the canned animation, and they don't even disintegrate enemies.
5. The entire mechanic is a single-target kill in a game that routinely throws whole crowds of enemies our way, which are able to clear in short order.
6. The canned animations quickly get boring and repetitive after the first few times, as with any animation on a highly repeatable effect in a game that expects the player to use that effect over a theoretically infinite duration.

Effectively, Mercies have no real place in a game like Warframe, are made almost entirely redundant by our regular damage, and arguably don't actually add any additional gameplay or depth to combat. I'd personally just get rid of them entirely, along with the Parazon, and roll whichever advantages it may present onto melee finishers and attacks against unaware or incapacitated enemies.