Toxic lich hunter bullies are spreading "badwill", ban them.

[Graavarg]

4 minutes ago, KIREEK said:

I often force a decision on the lich owner, so we can continue or stop and help.

Players that don't decide or take way to long to engage end up being dismissed, no need to insult or verbally attack the user, yes that player is doing things by starting from the roof, he doesn't want to engage the lich and is potentially trolling a run by blocking the spawn of other liches, that some players need to figure out the order or even get lucky with a kill, it's obvious players may get upset when a player essentially forces you to grind more missions.

Players who intentinally stall can be reported, this ain't stallng, but it does drag the mission into an extra mission, so instead of one, you might have to do 2 thanks to that player.

This doesn't sound much, but since the behavior is common, this adds up, it can turn into an extra 100 missions before you know it.

So yes OP, if are part of the group who likes to drag missions for everyone else, players won't take you lighly, why not do this with your clanmates? is there any particular reason why your own clan can't help you do the missions the way you want?

I simply ask players to decide, the only thing i hate is when they engage, stop engaging, ask for help when we reach extraction and then insult when we decide to extract instead.

Asking politely if someone needs help with taking down their lich is of course 100% ok.

But otherwise I do not agree with you at all, since it seems that you want to give yourself the right to join a random mission and impose rules on the other players. And these "rules" are clearly your own, not DE's. DE has actually instead repeatedly flagged for it being the player's decision when or if to attack the lich.

So I think it is the other way around, if you cannot accept that other players have the right to make their own decisions about their own liches, don't do PUGs, random squads. Because if you do and try to force other players to do what you want, you are a toxic player.

That said I have also encountered players that don't really know what they are doing (with their lich). But this is no problem, as it doesn't hinder the actual mission in any way. And to be expected with a new mechanic and going with a random squad. Just leave them to it, they'll learn.

[TioMegaManX]

4 hours ago, Xaero said:

Or you know, DE could solve this problem by allowing multiple liches to spawn at the same time.

I swear I had my Lich and another one in the same mission at least one time, I wasn't killing mine and just staggering it for the thrall spawns, people were calling me out and suddenly a different one began taunting the player.

[ShortCat]

3 hours ago, SordidDreams said:

I'd argue getting help from other players is the whole point of a co-op game. If everyone were able to handle the content they play, there would be no point to playing in a group. And yes, you're playing in public, which is precisely why you might end up as host and/or grouped with other people who aren't able to one-shot level 100 mobs (which only a tiny minority of the player base are able to do). Given that there's no upside to leveling a lich other than the small one-time murmur gain, I'd say it's advantageous for everybody to keep their liches unleveled for as long as possible in order to keep the mission difficulty low. If murmur gain from liches was multiplied by their rank, so a rank 5 lich gave 50 murmurs instead of just 10, then yeah, I'd say stab away. But that's not the case

If I may intervene:

• Lichs are not really ment for new/-ish players and after an initially badly designed Lich creation was hotfixed, there is a clear option to opt out. If you cannot handle Sortie 3 lvl range (how is it even possible at this point), I would suggest to come to this content at a later stage.
• If you play in a group, especially those "toxic" players will most likely be able to handle those Lichs and help undergeared/unexperienced player to lower its HP for a Mercy finisher. Kinda like a real co-op concept.
• Lich hunt mission lvl is decided by the host, so you can still join a session with lvl100 enemies, even if your Lich is lvl1. It also works the other way around, and you are not guaranteed to meet lvl100 enemies in every one of your missions with a lvl5 Lich hunting you (except you host it). Thus, denying Lich kils due to higher lvled enemies argument is completely busted, if you are playing public games.
• There is a benefit to lvl your Lich: he will conquer new nodes and present new missions with potentially better Thrall spawns, 10 Murmurs on a failed attempt yealds on avarage as much as 2 Exterminate missions, or slightly less than a Survival. In other words, those 10 Murmurs are worth 1-2 missions. Then, there is always the chance to guess the right requiem and make even bigger leap forward. Last but not least, lvl 5 Lich does not lose agro on a stab and will continue comming after you. There is clear incentive and benefit to stab your Lich. I have no idea who spreads this misinformation; probably the samy people who complain about 2-4 hours of grind for 1 Lich, while I avarage at 1-1.5 hours.
  (Best case, you let your Lich alive for some time, as he may spawn more Thralls, and then kill him)

 

Edited November 15, 2019 by ShortCat
typos

[Smilomaniac]

4 hours ago, Graavarg said:

A new trending behaviour is lich hunters verbally mobbing, bullying and abusing other players in PUB missions in order to force them to attack their personal lich. Presumably in order to get a few more murmurs. This idiocy should be stopped, by any means necessary. 

• A lich is a  personal part of the game, and all should be free to do the missions exactly the way they want (without other players abusing them in chat).
• Playing a PUB mission with randoms inherently means that there is no agreed special way of doing the mission. Trying to force other random players to do it "your way" (do your bidding) is rude, bad manners, or worse. Anyone wanting a dedicated team can use the chat (or clan, or friends list) to form one. And if you really feel to need for a fellow Tenno to help you  out "in mission", you can ask nicely and politely.

I don't personally care that much about the nagging, to me it's just a way of saying "hey, I play this game and I am an idiot". But I've now several times seen lower MR players giving to this abuse, and this pisses me off. I also hate bullies, always have and always will.

At this point in time I would even support banning the bullies and abusers for 24h in order to cool them down. I know it is an extra hassle for DE to handle the reports, but it would be unfortunate if this behaviour was allowed to continue as it will presumably lead to "not so experienced" players getting turned off from the lich mechanic. And we've seen all this before, with bosses, events and with trid hunts, just to name a few examples.

You're probably just letting off steam, but in the case you're genuinly angry I'd like to explain a couple of things to you as well as offer a solution:

1. Mobbing, bullying and abusing someone is not alright, however someone getting annoyed with you and calling you out for you mistake, even if it's done in a rude way, is none of those things.

2. You'd like people to be patient with you, but you should also be patient with them as it's probably the 97th time they've come across people that don't attack their lich or aren't helping with theirs. It's a part of the game now, whether you like it or not.

You've actually offered the solution to your own problem: Don't pug, join a clan and make friends.
If you pug missions, you assume the responsibility of being subjected to people with opinions different from yours and handling those people as a responsible adult. If you are not mature enough to deal with this, you are not mature enough to play multiplayer games. People being rude to you is not an excuse to be rude back or demand banning people. You're just as much in need of "cooling down".

As someone who was bullied mercilessly, regularly beaten and (once) choked out on the playground, I can assure you that the solution starts with you, not trying to get an adult to force change on everyone else. It's not a perfect world and it's never, ever, going to be.

[(PSN)ChaosTheNerd]

Warframe Community being toxic? "BuT tHiS iS a WaRmInG aNd wElCoMiNg cOmMuNiTy fUlL oF nIcE pEoPlE! DeStInY sUcKs BtW!"

[MacKerris]

If they bully, report them. End of story...

[SuperXtreme500]

So people are getting mad at griefers who won’t deal with their lich, preventing others from spawning? If the “toxicity” of people’s frustration is a problem then play solo. And no, people playing public who are actively trying to attempt shouldn’t play solo, the people who are causing the frustration in the first place should if they don’t want to deal with theirs. Trying to force someone to kill their lich is “selfish”, but preventing the other three people from attempting theirs is far more selfish. There is no good excuse not to deal with your lich, and guessing along the way is much more efficient than waiting until all three murmurs are revealed.

[Toran]

vor 4 Stunden schrieb Graavarg:

A new trending behaviour is lich hunters verbally mobbing, bullying and abusing other players in PUB missions in order to force them to attack their personal lich. Presumably in order to get a few more murmurs. This idiocy should be stopped, by any means necessary. 

• A lich is a  personal part of the game, and all should be free to do the missions exactly the way they want (without other players abusing them in chat).
• Playing a PUB mission with randoms inherently means that there is no agreed special way of doing the mission. Trying to force other random players to do it "your way" (do your bidding) is rude, bad manners, or worse. Anyone wanting a dedicated team can use the chat (or clan, or friends list) to form one. And if you really feel to need for a fellow Tenno to help you  out "in mission", you can ask nicely and politely.

I don't personally care that much about the nagging, to me it's just a way of saying "hey, I play this game and I am an idiot". But I've now several times seen lower MR players giving to this abuse, and this pisses me off. I also hate bullies, always have and always will.

At this point in time I would even support banning the bullies and abusers for 24h in order to cool them down. I know it is an extra hassle for DE to handle the reports, but it would be unfortunate if this behaviour was allowed to continue as it will presumably lead to "not so experienced" players getting turned off from the lich mechanic. And we've seen all this before, with bosses, events and with trid hunts, just to name a few 

Can we just ban you instead?

Seriously, the Kuva missions need a fix to save the rest of us suffering from sleepwalkers who are too lazy to press X on a ready to claim Lich...

Don't give me the PUG argument to rectify your actively obstructing behaviour. Lich Hunts are meant to be high end content but they're that trivial that the only high end parts are grind and randomness. In my runs, I see behaviour like yours mostly from high MR and I can only guess about the reason... (clueless, afk-leech, griefplay, RL interference, watching a show...)

vor 4 Stunden schrieb Xaero:

Or you know, DE could solve this problem by allowing multiple liches to spawn at the same time.

That's an excellent idea, it would spice things up a bit. Alternatively, unclaimed Lichs could just leave after a minute.

[(PSN)ChaosTheNerd]

2 minutes ago, Toran said:

Can we just ban you instead?

Seriously, the Kuva missions need a fix to save the rest of us suffering from sleepwalkers who are too lazy to press X on a ready to claim Lich...

Don't give me the PUG argument to rectify your actively obstructing behaviour. Lich Hunts are meant to be high end content but they're that trivial that the only high end parts are grind and randomness. In my runs, I see behaviour like yours mostly from high MR and I can only guess about the reason... (clueless, afk-leech, griefplay, RL interference, watching a show...)

That's an excellent idea, it would spice things up a bit. Alternatively, unclaimed Lichs could just leave after a minute.

See this is why I solo all the time

[(PSN)Cargan2016]

4 hours ago, -Jorsch- said:

So let me get this straight, You deciding to not attack your lich, therefore holding the rest of the group's lich spawns hostage for the entirety of the run. In this scenario you are the problematic player here, and your answer to people's justified frustration is they should leave or just shut up. If you don't want to kill your lich, that is your decision, but if that's the decision you're going to make you should just play on private and save the other 3 people you'd be grouping with the frustration involved in dealing with you as a player.

if they start lashing out and being harassing and toxic they are problem player not me 

[Graavarg]

24 minutes ago, Toran said:

Alternatively, unclaimed Lichs could just leave after a minute

This is a good suggestion. If the owning player doesn't attack it within 60 sec, let the poor lich leave.

Alternatively, after taking it down a step (or two) you could get the option to "banish" (despawn) it.

The lich leaving means no more unnecessary crying and/or toxicity.

[(PSN)Cargan2016]

2 hours ago, Graavarg said:

I'm MR27 and don't give a flying f*** what these assh***s write about me in the chat, but it irritates me when high-MR players is bullying less experienced players to kill their liches, just get a few murmurs. Seen all kinds of verbal abuse and threats, including one threating "to report a player" to DE unless he/she attacked the lich. This kind of behaviour just has to be stopped.

While high-MR players have little problems with anything related to lich-hunting, a level 5 lich presents quite a formidable enemy to low-MR players. Especially if it hangs around a higher level planet as well.

As I said, I really, truly hate selfish bullies, so when one or two MR20+ starts carping on a MR10- in order to get a few more murmurs without giving a damn about how this affects the less experienced player's game and enjoyment, I see red.

The default can only be that everyone should be allowed to make their own decisions, without other players bullying, abusing or threatening them. No-one would accept a player threathening and abusing other players if they don't put in a specific relic in PUG void fissure mission, so how could the same behaviour be ok in a lich context?

exactly and this behavior irritates me to no end and I screen shot it and report it any time i see it.  It doesnt just happen with lich system it crops up from time to time everywhere

[TioMegaManX]

2 minutes ago, Graavarg said:

This is a good suggestion. If the owning player doesn't attack it within 60 sec, let the poor lich leave.

Alternatively, after taking it down a step (or two) you could get the option to "banish" (despawn) it.

The lich leaving means no more unnecessary crying and/or toxicity.

Or better yet, banish can happen with no requiems equipped, no extra murmurs but also no rank up or player death if you do it.

[Graavarg]

29 minutes ago, Toran said:

Can we just ban you instead?

Well, we can try and see what happens.

Invite me, let's go lich hunting together. You start to write abuse, threaten to report me etc. etc. for not trying to kill my lich, and I say "my lich - my decision".

You'll take screenshots and report me, I'll take screenshots and report you. DE can then decide who is the toxic player and if a ban should be put in place.

Is that what you are suggesting?

[(PSN)Cargan2016]

34 minutes ago, Toran said:

Can we just ban you instead?

Seriously, the Kuva missions need a fix to save the rest of us suffering from sleepwalkers who are too lazy to press X on a ready to claim Lich...

Don't give me the PUG argument to rectify your actively obstructing behaviour. Lich Hunts are meant to be high end content but they're that trivial that the only high end parts are grind and randomness. In my runs, I see behaviour like yours mostly from high MR and I can only guess about the reason... (clueless, afk-leech, griefplay, RL interference, watching a show...)

That's an excellent idea, it would spice things up a bit. Alternatively, unclaimed Lichs could just leave after a minute.

people like you are part of the problem.  a lower MR player isnt going to want to attempt to kill lich and have it level up if they dont have any mods for it or the right mods yet.

[Toran]

vor 2 Minuten schrieb Graavarg:

Well, we can try and see what happens.

Invite me, let's go lich hunting together. You start to write abuse, threaten to report me etc. etc. for not trying to kill my lich, and I say "my lich - my decision".

You'll take screenshots and report me, I'll take screenshots and report you. DE can then decide who is the toxic player and if a ban should be put in place.

Is that what you are suggesting?

Why the hell should I intend to play "with" you after reading your post? 

[KIREEK]

1 hour ago, Graavarg said:

Asking politely if someone needs help with taking down their lich is of course 100% ok.

But otherwise I do not agree with you at all, since it seems that you want to give yourself the right to join a random mission and impose rules on the other players. And these "rules" are clearly your own, not DE's. DE has actually instead repeatedly flagged for it being the player's decision when or if to attack the lich.

So I think it is the other way around, if you cannot accept that other players have the right to make their own decisions about their own liches, don't do PUGs, random squads. Because if you do and try to force other players to do what you want, you are a toxic player.

That said I have also encountered players that don't really know what they are doing (with their lich). But this is no problem, as it doesn't hinder the actual mission in any way. And to be expected with a new mechanic and going with a random squad. Just leave them to it, they'll learn.

My point is that those missions are to be done after collecting all mods, you do not do them to know what mods you need, because knowing them is pointless, you also do not use the missions to farm relics since even at 5% it's likely you won't find them in all the missions, so kuva floods end up being better. 

Yes the order that some players do things is upside down and i can't impose, in fact i don't, i just espect players to follow a natural flow of gameplay. Players also haven't unlocked kuva fortress, yet ask for taxi for a kuva fortress assault sortie, they do it, but they shouldn't

I ask ingame so i know if i stop or continue the mission, it's fustrating when someone isn't supposed to be there, but i just keep doing the misison, end it and try again, altough as you might expect, that player will have to exit the squad, i can't have players playing with the intention to drag the missions and making them last so long that extra missions are required to compenssate.

I don't insult or verbally attack, but i might reject helping with the lich if the user ping pongs back and forth with enaging and not engaging the lich, had my share of games where players give up midway, making everyone in the squad looking like clowns after wasting a few minutes attacking the lich, only to know the user gave up because he didn't have the mods.

Peace.

Maybe DE can give incentives or less of a punishment for all.

[mrpyro12345678]

Excuse me yall, but not-attacking-liches DISRUPTS THE WHOLE MISSION, THEY ARE INCREDIBLY POWERFUL ACTUALLY!

You are being asked to kill the lich not because murmurs, but because the Liches kill your teammates, care for once!

[White_Matter]

The Idiocy that should really be stopped is people ignoring their lich. 

The difference between murmur gain from missions where I confronted my lich and those where my lich didn't spawn is SIGNIFICANT.

People who ignore their lich not only hurt themselves, but other players as well.

Edited November 15, 2019 by White_Matter

[Graavarg]

Just now, Toran said:

Why the hell should I intend to play "with" you after reading your post? 

Well, both from a "put up or shut up"-perspective, and as a determination and/or test of allowable toxicity and what is acceptable behaviour, and not.

After all, it is DE's call, isn't it.

And I am up for it, since I truly and sincerely believe that DE always has intended that it is the player's own choice (if and when to attack his/her lich), and I also have trust in DE considering whether verbal abuse and bullying is right/wrong (though I have no idea if and when it is considered a bannable offense).

[mrpyro12345678]

Just now, White_Matter said:

The Idiocy that should really be stopped is people ignoring their lich. 

The difference between murmur gain from missions where I confronted my lich and those where my lich didn't spawn is SIGNIFICANT.

People who ignore their lich not only hurt themselves, but other players as well.

Exactly, ignored liches kill other players as well, and as I heard can even rank up from that! Ignoring your lich gives you no grofit, since they level up anyway.

[Toran]

vor 3 Minuten schrieb (PS4)Cargan2016:

people like you are part of the problem.  a lower MR player isnt going to want to attempt to kill lich and have it level up if they dont have any mods for it or the right mods yet.

As I mentioned before, it's usually not the behaviour of low MR players, those can actually can use Kuva weapons as upgrades and are often interested in getting their liches down...

[SordidDreams]

1 hour ago, ShortCat said:

Lichs are not really ment for new/-ish players and after an initially badly designed Lich creation was hotfixed, there is a clear option to opt out. If you cannot handle Sortie 3 lvl range (how is it even possible at this point), I would suggest to come to this content at a later stage.

I'd argue getting help from other players is the whole point of a co-op game. If everyone were able to handle the content they play, there would be no point to playing in a group.

1 hour ago, ShortCat said:

If you play in a group, especially those "toxic" players will most likely be able to handle those Lichs and help undergeared/unexperienced player to lower its HP for a Mercy finisher. Kinda like a real co-op concept.

That seems contradictory to your previous point. So should people play this content in pub or not? You can't have it both ways.

1 hour ago, ShortCat said:

Lich hunt mission lvl is decided by the host, so you can still join a session with lvl100 enemies, even if your Lich is lvl1. It also works the other way around, and you are not guaranteed to meet lvl100 enemies in every one of your missions with a lvl5 Lich hunting you (except you host it). Thus, denying Lich kils due to higher lvled enemies argument is completely busted, if you are playing public games.

The more players keep their liches unleveled, the greater the chance that your pub lich mission won't be max level. Thus, the idea that the argument of keeping liches unleveled is busted, is busted.

1 hour ago, ShortCat said:

There is a benefit to lvl your Lich: he will conquer new nodes and present new missions with potentially better Thrall spawns, 10 Murmurs on a failed attempt yealds on avarage as much as 2 Exterminate missions, or slightly less than a Survival. In other words, those 10 Murmurs are worth 1-2 missions. Then, there is always the chance to guess the right requiem and make even bigger leap forward. Last but not least, lvl 5 Lich does not lose agro on a stab and will continue comming after you. There is clear incentive and benefit to stab your Lich. I have no idea who spreads this misinformation; probably the samy people who complain about 2-4 hours of grind for 1 Lich, while I avarage at 1-1.5 hours.

That's only a benefit if you plan to farm your lich for hours on end and running out of missions to do is a realistic possibility for you.

1 hour ago, ShortCat said:

Best case, you let your Lich alive for some time, as he may spawn more Thralls, and then kill him

You're going to get yelled at by toxic trolls in squad chat if you do that, because a lot of them don't even know liches can convert thralls. And honestly, if that happened to me? Like, if I was keeping the lich alive to convert thralls to increase the thrall cap of the mission and share murmur progress with the team, and my ignorant teammates rudely tried to bully me into hurrying up so they could get their to spawn? I'd keep mine alive just to spite them. I'm not even ashamed to admit that.

Edited November 15, 2019 by SordidDreams

[Allumi_]

Form a dedicated squad with people whose lich is on different planets which means mine wont spawn?

[TioMegaManX]

I am willing to let anyone take screens and report me if I am doing something against the rules in any shape of form while NOT executing my Lich which in turn makes the game unfun for me thanks to ranking it up, no, I don't care if you think even max rank liches are very easy, I play the game for the power fantasy and not the "challenge" others want to have even while farming or leveling up.