DE supposedly only listening to "specific" feedback regarding Liches

[MirageKnight]

8 hours ago, Serafim_94 said:

DE wouldn't have to release half-finished stuff and abandon it rushing to the next shiny thing.

DE doesn't "have" to do that at all - meaning release half-baked content. They simply choose to give in to pressure from certain youtubers...and it's not just impatient "content providers", there's also all the entitled, impatient children (some of them are physically adults mind you) that populate Reddit and these forums that DE's caving in to.

Honestly? I say screw 'em all.

DE, you need to go at a pace that works for you. One that allows for quality content while keeping us regular players satisfied.

If it were up to me, I'd have a strict "when it's ready" policy, I'd avoiding promising too much, and I'd refrain from having too many projects going on at once.

Because that just makes sense.

Edited December 11, 2019 by MirageKnight
Clarification. Sorry I wasn't clear enough.

[CuChulainnWD]

21 minutes ago, Serafim_94 said:

If certain Youtubers didn't *@##$ all the time about "no content", maybe DE wouldn't have to release half-finished stuff and abandon it rushing to the next shiny thing.

This is not the fault of the youtube content creators. This is ALL on DE, every single problem,Foxtrot Uniform Charlie Kilo Up or we are damned if we do damned if we don't moment DE has whinged about, it is ALL on them. They have ZERO excuses left anymore. They have the staff size, now numbering just around 500, they have the tallent. They lack the organisational and leadership skills to execute even the trivial 7 P's. Prior Preparation and Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance, to execute anything they attempt to do. 

Please, stop making excuses for DE. They have not deserved it in months, perhaps years. They have traded on the banked good will of our Community since 2015, taking it for granted, and now laugh in our faces since the financial success of their ad campaign that saw them get their bill board on Time Square. Since that time, they have not really given a real Foxtrot Uniform Charlie Kilo about their community or our feed back. It would serve us all well to remember that.

Edited December 10, 2019 by CuChulainnWD

[Mikhael222]

On 2019-12-08 at 7:02 PM, Sunder said:

Ignore the Lich system entirely. Keep providing feedback. And warn new players not to touch it in its current state. 

Aside from the one lich I had to kill because I accidentally killed the larvaling, I've ignored it since it's release.

I'm mostly indifferent to the lich system (just because the theme doesn't hold my interest), but in my experience with it, I really don't see what all of the complaining in the forums is necessary for.  I had a few days of chasing it down; I killed it after discovering the correct combination; and I got its weapon.  I don't understand what the big deal is.

Edited December 10, 2019 by Mikhael222

[Serafim_94]

21 минуту назад, CuChulainnWD сказал:

This is not the fault of the youtube content creators. This is ALL on DE, every single problem,Foxtrot Uniform Charlie Kilo Up or we are damned if we do damned if we don't moment DE has whinged about, it is ALL on them. They have ZERO excuses left anymore. They have the staff size, now numbering just around 500, they have the tallent. They lack the organisational and leadership skills to execute even the trivial 7 P's. Prior Preparation and Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance, to execute anything they attempt to do. 

Please, stop making excuses for DE. They have not deserved it in months, perhaps years. They have traded on the banked good will of our Community since 2015, taking it for granted, and now laugh in our faces since the financial success of their ad campaign that saw them get their bill board on Time Square. Since that time, they have not really given a real Foxtrot Uniform Charlie Kilo about their community or our feed back. It would serve us all well to remember that.

They work slowly. This time, that slow work is on something massive. The only realistic mistake they made was giving release dates at all.

 

But you're right, it's not Youtuber's fault. It's fault of entire playerbase, that keeps asking for absolutely retarded things.

People complain about too much grind, while at the same time complaining that they grind entire new content in a week and have nothing to do anymore.

When those demands are met with Liches, which can not be grinded in the same manner, and are pretty much designed to be "sUStaInAblE ENdgAmE", people whine. Because it is, indeed, a horrible idea.

People demand "endgame" without having a single clue what it is. When they get something even remotely difficult, they complain till it's nerfed.

When something that turns any high-level content into cheesefest is nerfed, people get up in arms demanding reverts. Look at melee rework.

People demand raids to be brought back. All 10 of those people.

People seriously asked for Railjack to be a clan thing. Nuff said.

At this very moment people complain about Archwing changes.

 

So, which part of this feedback suffering from bipolar disorder should DE take into account?

 

Edit: just for the record, I went and googled how many people are working on Fortnite, which came under fire not long ago for crunching developers. It's the question I've been asking myself for a while now. The numbers I found are "majority of 700 people". DE, as per wikipedia, sits at 310. So tell me #*!%ing more how much people is "enough". Clearly you are professional gamedev manager.

Edited December 10, 2019 by Serafim_94

[CuChulainnWD]

27 minutes ago, Serafim_94 said:

They work slowly. This time, that slow work is on something massive. The only realistic mistake they made was giving release dates at all.

 

But you're right, it's not Youtuber's fault. It's fault of entire playerbase, that keeps asking for absolutely retarded things.

People complain about too much grind, while at the same time complaining that they grind entire new content in a week and have nothing to do anymore.

When those demands are met with Liches, which can not be grinded in the same manner, people complain it takes too long.

People demand "endgame" without having a single clue what it is. When they get something even remotely difficult, they complain till it's nerfed.

When something that turns any high-level content into cheesefest is nerfed, people get up in arms demanding reverts. Look at melee rework.

People demand raids to be brought back. All 10 of those people.

People seriously asked for Railjack to be a clan thing. Nuff said.

At this very moment people complain about Archwing changes.

 

So, which part of this feedback suffering from bipolar disorder should DE take into account?

I would not blame the player base either as you are want to do. Do not be a Sir Gallahad for DE. DE is solely responsible for every problem you listed in your post.

People asked for less grind over three years ago. It was acknowledged by DE in a devstream, sorry I do not have it to hand, but there have been several past streams acknowledging the problem. DE has done everything in their power to increase grind since.

Lichs were asked for over THREE FLUCKING YEARS ago. THREE. They have had plenty of time to deliver on the promise of the King Pin system. It has/Had such potential. They have had a metric $hit Ton of feed back which would make it exactly what the community wants and asked for. Relatively systems complete baring updates, Enjoyable ( I was having a great time going after Lich until a certain update notice in November as were many others), and it would be replayable, which would negate your claim of whining. DE chose to say Foxtrot Uniform Charlie Kilo YOU to the community., We took your feed back and we shelved it for yet another month maybe longer knowing DE and their track record.

DE has been asked for 5 years now to fix their scaling. FIVE Fricking years. FIVE. Again that is on DE who said , nah it works. For you to sit there and claim people want buffs and nerfs, again that is ALL on DE. We have clever people working on, and playing this game. People have made direct and poignant suggestions how to fix the cheese. Did DE listen? No. Again it is ALL on DE.

Man y people played Raids, more so than they played Conclave. DE and their spaghetti code did not make for a viable raid sustainment program, according to DE, and so they Axed it. Again that is ALL on DE.

Vets have asked for difficult content, it gets nerfed because the noobs can not handle it. Again that is on DE to resolve. Not the player base. Vet's do deserve to have some focus and attention to game play. The new player experience and casual experience has been catered to for the past 2 years. Vets are leaving, new people who become Vets are leaving.... I figured you could understand that concept.

Rail Jack unlike Old Blood was not asked for by the community. It was a love child born of Steve during his Sunday Streams. I support his dream, but not at the expense for what was asked for by the community at least a year and a bit longer, Old Blood ala King Pin system.

Archwing has elements that are good and bad. People would like to see DE take the best of both worlds. DE did acknowledge that and that might be what we get, but then again that too could be lipservice. Suffice to say DE have a proven track record of making Promises and NOT keeping them.

You sir love DE, we all Love DE. Some of us Love it enough to critisise it because when they make $hit soup, they make $hit soup and we are saying we do not like it. Time to change your menu. You on the other hand will continue to blow sunshine up DE's collective Posterior claiming all is well with DE, just ignore the complaints.

Edit Response: I have also seen numbers for DE in the 500 plus range. Who is right? Numbers can be made to read how you like it seems. It is still on DE to prioritise and prepare before they commit to big projects and then under deliver. Either higher more staff, or utilise what you have more efficiently. I don't need to be a game developer to know good business practice when I see it. So I ask you to stop being disingenuous with your intellectual dishonesty.

I can however tell you why Leaders are superior to managers. Managers only care about what people above them think. They don't give a fury rodents posterior about the people bellow them. Leaders encourage the people around them to strive for better, give more willingly and when troubles arise, find viable solutions to make things work regardless of circumstances. How do I know? Served in the military and the civil world to learn and experience the difference. Sorry for the virtue signaling.

Edited December 10, 2019 by CuChulainnWD

[Joezone619]

keep this thing alive, DE NEEDS to do something about lichs being able to 1 shot you regardless of health, armor, and shields, or damage resistance.

[-Kittens-]

On 2019-12-08 at 5:31 PM, Sunder said:

Make no mistake, he mentioned "changes to the system" after Steve said, "No plans to change them killing you vs you killing them". Also after the fact Steve said he wants to keep this suicide-roulette cause it's, "interesting and unique". They know we don't like it. But they don't want to change it for some reason. We need the issue properly addressed and not swept under the rug by talking about other aspects people have issue with. Till then I'd keep those feelings of being grossed out alive and well. 

Didn't help for Operators or Rocket Wheelchair with Guns™ or rivens and it's not going to help here. Insulation is a sum negative, and "curated feedback" has been a myth since the days of NERF RHINO, ala u8.

WF is a vanity project, and vanity projects don't get the same kinds of balance passes another game would get if the mechanic or feature is one of the fetish elements a dev insists on keeping no matter what. The "big enemy" system has been going to be a thing for years, and now here it  is, it's not going to go away or receive any meaningful changes that will monetarily affect how it works or how you're expected to go through it. Once that incentivization loop is created, there's not going be any going back.

Edited December 11, 2019 by -Kittens-

[MirageKnight]

6 hours ago, -Kittens- said:

WF is a vanity project, and vanity projects don't get the same kinds of balance passes another game would get if the mechanic or feature is one the fetish elements a dev insists on keeping no matter what.

Warframe is pretty much Steve's baby. At times he's really laid into people on Twitter and even on a couple of Devstreams for overly criticizing the game and his efforts. IIRC, he actually had to apologize on a stream for losing his cool.

It's pretty clear that "Lich roulette" is Steve's "fetish element" with regard to the Lich Nemesis system.

You know what? He can keep it. I'm never touching Liches again if I can help it so long as that crap continues to exist.

In case it's not clear, I really am not cool with Steve's attitude towards us.

Edited December 11, 2019 by MirageKnight

[Cerebrum123]

3 hours ago, CuChulainnWD said:

Rail Jack unlike Old Blood was not asked for by the community. It was a love child born of Steve during his Sunday Streams. I support his dream, but not at the expense for what was asked for by the community at least a year and a bit longer, Old Blood ala King Pin system.
 

This isn't actually true. From the moment Lisets were introduced into the game people were asking for something like Railjack. It died down for a while, but I and many others expressed a desire for something like it. 

[CuChulainnWD]

59 minutes ago, MirageKnight said:

Warframe is pretty much Steve's baby. At times he's really laid into people on Twitter and even on a couple of Devstreams for overly criticizing the game and his efforts. IIRC, he actually had to apologize on a stream for losing his cool.

It's pretty clear that "Lich roulette" is Steve's "fetish element" with regard to the Lich Nemesis system.

You know what? He can keep it. I'm never touching Liches again if I can help it so long as that crap continues to exist.

I am not so sure the issue is the Lich taking us down that Steve is so worked up over, it is the fact that he spent so much time that his pride got invested into the Bane like animations that we are supposed to Oooo and Ahhh over, and not appreciating. That is what is pissing him off and got his blinders on to the fact that the problem still needs to change.

7 minutes ago, Cerebrum123 said:

This isn't actually true. From the moment Lisets were introduced into the game people were asking for something like Railjack. It died down for a while, but I and many others expressed a desire for something like it. 

I will stand corrected that that maybe the case, but as you point out that uproar quieted own so much, that I did not hear about it in 2015 when I came into the game, and up to the point that Steve started streaming a possible Rail jack system on his Sunday Streams.  Pedantic perhaps, but it does have the same effect as saying no one really asked for it until DE decided it should be a thing, at least not to the degree that the King Pin system was asked for. Agreed?

Edited December 10, 2019 by CuChulainnWD

[CuChulainnWD]

2 hours ago, -Kittens- said:

Didn't help for Operators or Rocket Wheelchair with Guns™ or rivens and it's not going to help here. Insulation is a sum negative, and "curated feedback" has been a myth since the days of NERF RHINO, ala u8.

WF is a vanity project, and vanity projects don't get the same kinds of balance passes another game would get if the mechanic or feature is one the fetish elements a dev insists on keeping no matter what. The "big enemy" system has been going to be a thing for years, and now here it  is, it's not going to go away or receive any meaningful changes that will monetarily affect how it works or how you're expected to go through it. Once that incentivization loop is created, there's not going be any going back.

Hmm, I can not disagree but for the fact that this Vanity project plays like a pile of S#&$ thrown on a wall to see what sticks. It is time DE started polishing their turds, and make something of anything in their game to show the community that they still have the talent, the care to make anything in this game truly enjoyable, replayable and systems complete. I know those of us that are criticising DE hard to love this game and it is for that reason we are telling them enough is enough.

Unfortunately, there is Zero incentivisation loop for the players to wish to continue down DE's path of tossing out $hit Soup and expecting us to continue eating it, not with out justified complaint. If enough registered losers walk away, particularly the paying variety, DE is up said creek with out a paddle.

[Cerebrum123]

4 minutes ago, CuChulainnWD said:

I will stand corrected that that maybe the case, but as you point out that uproar quieted own so much, that I did not hear about it in 2015 when I came into the game, and up to the point that Steve started streaming a possible Rail jack system on his Sunday Streams.  Pedantic perhaps, but it does have the same effect as saying no one really asked for it until DE decided it should be a thing, at least not to the degree that the King Pin system was asked for. Agreed?

I can't even remember the King Pin system being talked about at all. Perhaps it was talked about a lot, and I just missed it, but only when finding out about the Liches during Tennocon did I even find out about it. I can't really agree when I never really experienced, or even heard about what you did. 

[CuChulainnWD]

Just now, Cerebrum123 said:

I can't even remember the King Pin system being talked about at all. Perhaps it was talked about a lot, and I just missed it, but only when finding out about the Liches during Tennocon did I even find out about it. I can't really agree when I never really experienced, or even heard about what you did. 

The King pin system was talked about 3 years ago, and through several devstreams between then and now, people have consistently asked for updates on it.

[(PSN)shadowclasper]

Honestly my big thing is that I sorta feel like it should have almost taken more from Shadow of Mordor.

Like, on the one hand, we have this god awful 'instant kill' mechanic, and on the other, the kuva liches feel almost DISPOSABLE. There's no back and forth with them getting stronger over time, cat and mouse, trying to corner them, learn how to beat them, countering them perfectly, building resources to go after them, etc. It's just... do this until they hate you enough and then make a correct guess on a 1 in 6 chance.

 

There's very little satisfaction in them. I do hope they expand on this system later on, because the potential is REALLY THERE, but it almost feels like they wanted to get this in and being tested before they got our the Empyrean update.

Edited December 10, 2019 by (PS4)shadowclasper

[Tenno76856]

Its almost as if they are pressured by those who keep wanting new content every few weeks so they shovel out new stuff without testing and/or limited post release fixes. Just remember... Forums are never representative of majority of gamers 

[CuChulainnWD]

Just now, NigglesAU said:

Its almost as if they are pressured by those who keep wanting new content every few weeks so they shovel out new stuff without testing and/or limited post release fixes. Just remember... Forums are never representative of majority of gamers 

It's almost like Sir Gallahad loves making excuses for the mistakes DE makes Exclusively for themselves. DE has had 3 years for the Kingpin Lich system, 2 plus years to get Railjack in order, and they managed to #*!% up both. Yeah I know we did not get Railjack yet, but wait for it. My Telepathetic powers are strong on this one. Not to mention just about every other major update they have released. DE does not need you to make excuses for them.

[EinheriarJudith]

6 hours ago, Mikhael222 said:

Aside from the one lich I had to kill because I accidentally killed the larvaling, I've ignored it since it's release.

I'm mostly indifferent to the lich system (just because the theme doesn't hold my interest), but in my experience with it, I really don't see what all of the complaining in the forums is necessary for.  I had a few days of chasing it down; I killed it after discovering the correct combination; and I got its weapon.  I don't understand what the big deal is.

of course you dont see what all the complaining is about. the system doesnt interest you. if you really want to understand what people are complaining about go and kill 10 liches and lets see how you feel then. ive stopped taking part in the system myself after 13. its grindy and boring.im missing 2 weapons out of all the kuva ones. and 4 of them i have put 5 forma in

Edit: 15

Edited December 10, 2019 by EinheriarJudith

[Andrew7811]

The biggest problem I'm seeing after killing 30 liches is that engaging in the kuva lich system feels more like I'm playing as a bounty hunter rather than it playing out as me trying to kill villains who personally get out of their way to make my life miserable.

[MirageKnight]

39 minutes ago, MarrikBroom said:

Literally the rest of your response doesn't matter, because that leadin is effectively saying 'it's oK if DE half-bakes something, leaves it in a state that encourages toxicity, then shovels the next thing they've spent God alone knows how long above and beyond both this year AND last year working on' because they don't 'have' to do anything.'

You misunderstand / misread what I said - I do not in any way, shape or form condone or support DE half-assing things. In fact I'm thoroughly sick of it.  I've made that pretty clear in the past in other posts but if that wasn't clear enough in that post, I apologize for the misunderstanding. I was trying to say they don't really have to release half-baked content but they chose to do so anyway.

And no, they shouldn't release half-baked content that's simply "good enough" to shut all the entitled, impatient players up.

My post has been amended to make myself clearer on the matter.

You saw my post where I was supporting the idea of delaying the release of  Railjack so that it could include AI / NPC crew support right? I want to see our Railjacks fully functioning as intended and I'm more than happy to wait for that. However, that's not going to happen and I really don't like that.

Also, please don't take things out of context in the future. I really don't appreciate that.

39 minutes ago, MarrikBroom said:

After how he's basically gone on dev stream effectivly mocking us by pickign the most irrelevant observation (the age of the tennocon liches) and deciding to carp on and on about 'oh maybe we'll make the corpus onestake longer so you can  have it both ways' instead of address how the current system is flat out not fun, the random roulette system where there is no player agency past pulling the crank arm... This is a far cry from what we were promised with the kingpin system where differing clannies could go on independant missions relating to weakening a kingpin's control of an area, or whittle down his personal forces to make the confrontation easier. This is 'here let's have an enemy with elemental immunities on top of total status immunity on top of health gates on top of unavoidable finishers that aren't really telegraphed on top of all the grinding for murmur on top of relic grinding and EVEN THEN you might still get it wrong. 

Totally agreed. I made a well-viewed and extremely critical topic on the subject of the Lich nemesis system in the feedback section.

Needless to say, DE ignored it.

Edited December 11, 2019 by MirageKnight

[(PSN)FriendSharkey]

I suggest turning it into something fun if you can, especially if DE doesn't...

 

I actually enjoyed my one encounter so far with a Kuva Larva in where I had to run away as it chased me throughout my exterminate mission...

I just had to get 109 kills without going one over for 110...

 

Too Much Pursuit. 10/10~IGN

[Mikhael222]

2 hours ago, EinheriarJudith said:

go and kill 10 liches and lets see how you feel then. ive stopped taking part in the system myself after 13. its grindy and boring.im missing 2 weapons out of all the kuva ones. and 4 of them i have put 5 forma in

Edit: 15

I think you're placing the burden on the grind on yourself...….15 is a lot.   I felt that the kuva lich process was mostly reasonable.  Probably a few things to tune up. Nothing major.

 

21 minutes ago, MirageKnight said:

Needless to say, DE ignored it.

In all fairness, they have their hands busy with Empyrean - a far superior game mode.  It's more likely they'll worry about kuva liches after they get that to us.  We've been waiting for Railjack longer than liches anyway.

[(XBOX)TooMad]

Solution:

Ignore Liches until DE moves onto the next shiny thing. It...does...not...even...sound...good...on paper. I for one will ignore it completely.  Not until they fix it.  Completely.  Because they won't fix it.

[(XBOX)CONAN 42576]

Already have over 30+ liches on xbox already and only 10 weapons (traded for 1 of them) and no ephemera.  I just seem to be getting duplicates every other lich for the last 15+ liches.  Fixes are needed.   The endless grind for the same weapon is a bit ridiculous. 

[CuChulainnWD]

3 hours ago, Mikhael222 said:

In all fairness, they have their hands busy with Empyrean - a far superior game mode.  It's more likely they'll worry about kuva liches after they get that to us.  We've been waiting for Railjack longer than liches anyway.

In all fairness, DE has had over 3 years to give us the King Pin system and a little over 2 for Railjack, they have still managed to bungle both. DE does not need you making excuses for their own major Foxtrot Uniform Charlie Kilo Ups.  They did this to themselves. They have had plenty of time to make things relatively right, even with the Old Blood since its release. DE has chosen not to do anything. That is on THEM.

[CuChulainnWD]

Repeated post

Edited December 11, 2019 by CuChulainnWD