Why should everything be changed because a handful of people break the game?

[(PSN)drollive96]

I have seen videos of people who have already maxed out all their intrinsics or have made railjack stupidly easy with all the high powered gear. To some it may seem like a problem but to be completely honest, i would guess that only a very small percentage of players have actually progressed that far in such a short amount of time, this doesn't just apply to railjack, there are people that, for example can do 3 + Eidolon runs in 1 night cycle and one shot the eidolons limbs with no effort, i only see this as a problem if it is easily exploitable by a LARGE percentage of the playerbase. I'm pretty sure the average player Wouldn't be able to do this without an extreme amount of effort. Plus there are also casuals that simply play for the fun of it( which make up a large chunk of the community ) who wouldn't be willing to go that far, as well as people with jobs / responsibilities that simply dont have the time for that amount of grinding. Yes, there are always going to be try-hards that try to break the game , but my question to whoever is reading this is, should the actions of a small amount of people mean that EVERYTHING needs to change? (besides, the tryhards worked very hard to aquire that ridiculous amount of power, I say they've earned it).

[Xhobract]

What change of "EVERYTHING" are you even referring to?

 

Edited December 30, 2019 by Xhobract

[kapn655321]

Being able to hustle that hard is the appeal to a portion of our player
base. Likewise, people paying for the boosters keep DE's lights on to
an extent. It certainly causes some obvious disparity in public
groupings and the target stats of new content,

At some point things tipped from running that hard was a private
session thing, to where now not running that is private session thing.
That very much changes the dynamic of how public and the general
experience of the game is.. but the pendulum swings back casual
when all the hustle is done, and they've exhausted their goal.

I've wondered whether that gulf in player experience isn't necessary
to pull that player base.. like, how do you appeal to people who have
to have the best of everything, if there is no one there to show you
you're doing better than them for your efforts? Ladder climbers have
money, and pay for a very specific fantasy.
 

Edited December 30, 2019 by kapn655321

[(XBOX)Tucker D Dawg]

the inevitable amesha nerf pehaps.  I can't speak to void hole, or blackout pulse, or phoenix avionics as with a one in a thousand drop chance, I don't have them yet. (1% of 10% drop chance on an enemy we can't descecrate, and has a relatively slow ttk on grindy slow missions, Really DE?)

 

[Loza03]

Well, there's a good reason.

You say that it's only affecting a small percentage, but that's not entirely true. It's most felt at that level, yes, and may even not be noticed at lower levels, but higher levels of play, higher levels of power, that's where the most imbalances can be seen and felt. Very few, if anything, is truly unbalanced only at lower levels of play - if it seems that way, it's probably due to either a very specific niche or because the thing fighting it - be it people or AI - is improperly equipped. That means, in turn, that if things are balanced at that top level - at that 'only a few people', then it's generally going to be balanced for everyone.

It's like a stress-test: you don't test a building prototype to see how well it stands up under normal circumstances, you test it under extreme circumstances, because if it can survive the extreme circumstances, then it can survive the the normal ones as well.

Here's a video that goes into more detail about this idea. It's for TF2, but if you listen, you'll find that a lot of the points mirror the Warframe community despite how different the games are (for example the point that a lot of people say all nerfs are automatically bad. That sounds fairly familiar, don't it?) When looking at general philosophies of design, those can usually be applied across games, which is why I feel comfortable looking at such a wildly different game on this.  

Spoiler

 

Again, the specifics are vastly different. For one, Warframe is a looter about building power, so there is designed to be some imbalance innately to encourage the loot grind, but even though TF2 is PvP and Warframe is PvE, the fact remains that imbalances in the use of a weapon or strategy will be most felt by the strongest.

Again - same philosophy, different specifics.

[SpringRocker]

Do you mean nerfing Amesha? Well...

• 2 abilities that stop you from dieing.
• An AOE ability that basically stops everything (moving to slow that they can't do anything)
• - And if they do happen to get shots off, you can redirect them away from you and your allies.

The only thing the Amesha DOESN'T DO is kill things for you, but is perfectly fine at doing everything else.

[Xzorn]

Dude, that stuff is all for you not the players who break the game. DE already knows they can't control those players.

Well... Unless they ban them for Photoshop. - RIP my fav Warframe breaker.

Take it from an Endurance runner. If it were actually a small amount of players; DE would entirely ignore the situation.

The players who know enough about this game to flex it's poor design to the breaking point haven't even been playing.

[Avienas]

25 minutes ago, Xzorn said:

Dude, that stuff is all for you not the players who break the game. DE already knows they can't control those players.

Well... Unless they ban them for Photoshop. - RIP my fav Warframe breaker.

Take it from an Endurance runner. If it were actually a small amount of players; DE would entirely ignore the situation.

The players who know enough about this game to flex it's poor design to the breaking point haven't even been playing.

Exactly, It was not instantly discovered on certain amp combinations being more effective on smashing eidolons till it had been a while AFTER people could first use them, that people discovered secondary fire was more valid to use on top of crits having a weird interaction so the Damage bonus on Crits Amp Arcane was more worth-while, then the status proc damage bonus one.

The same could be said with people finding out quick escape could be used as a sub to ignore the need of bringing a `guard harrow` to block eidolon screams.

In Railjack`s case, most are Using, what could be counted as exploits, mainly because the model is extremely incomplete in many ways including a bad U.I for the ship`s tactical menu, a some abilities not properly showing up when certain intrinstics are active (atleast on console where the extra yields wont be displayed but when i hit another forge i can notice i somehow made 2 artillery missiles instead of 1), plus so many other fiascos that its clear that people would rather EXPLOIT to get done with a broken system and not desire to revisit it again till its properly fixed and actual reasons exist to translate good loot from it into the main game. Which its still ultimately those 2 weapon bps you can get as early as Earth and the Shedu parts are not really that difficult to obtain, just more of a time gate and knowing a generous taxi to help you unlock the nodes in the veil.

 

The fact we do not have more unique methods for handling enemies in railjack missions such as a charge-able railjack pilot/gunner type weaponry which would lock on top enemies or new weapons that are NOT standard projectile base, that could of served as the optimal picks to bring into railjack. Plus i do not count the tyro seeker missiles since that uses ammo, i am talking more useful turret based weaponry.

Heck on that same note i WISH we could still blow up crew ships without needing to board them or use the tungska cannon, It would certainly be better if they could be `ruptured` also from shots and put into catastrophic failures, as we pound them with cyro shotgun blasts or something. Sure that might sound like it would ruin the cannon and infiltrating parts, but they could always let us improve the cannon outside of avionics, and more useful benefits one can acquire, such as how you took down the crew ship, could affect what kind of loot you could get from it, besides a few loot containers and some enemies that could drop stuff too, which usually stats to lose a bit of meaning after you amass tens of thousands of the `main` resources.

Just going to have to wait and see and PRAY D.E. is all hands focused on fixing up the content, then trying to distract us with another fancy female frame, when they should likely put more focus & resources to fix as many issues as possible on warframe, so hopefully those bugs dont simply show up again later because D.E. never decided to squash them.

Edited December 31, 2019 by Avienas

[Borg1611]

A lot of things are going to change I'm sure, but not because of anyone who maxed their ship with what little is already available. Things are going to be changed/added because you're essentially playing Railjack, the early access preview. It's basically alpha (early beta if you're being kind) content currently.