Cryophon now useless

[Robolaser]

Wow i'm so glad i didn't spend any platinum or resources on railjack.

[Morningrise]

 

8 hours ago, Mr.Fluffins said:

Can somebody explain to me, what's the point of saying "we think the Railjack weapons feel weak and we will decrease enemy armor to change that" and then going and reducing the weapon damage at the same time???

At this point I'm starting to think that DE are trying to sabotage their own years of work by making their new game mode as unfun as possible. 

Also Rip my 50% and 55% vidar cryophons. Thanks DE. It's not like the short range was already the price for having higher damage. Now it has no range AND no damage! Brilliant. 

[Gravitus123]

19 hours ago, CuChulainnWD said:

Well, it does not matter what DE wants to happen in the end, it is how WE the community respond to what they want. If they do not jive, we have discord. If we have discord, that means there is Troubles in River City. When there are troubles in River City, people either hunker down, or they leave. The trouble is, DE has been ignoring community feed back vociferously with their silence. 😉 Paying costumers and vets a like have had enough. It is all coming to a head. People are leaving. Is it the tipping point? I don't know. But I do know from experience, that when I have had enough... the rest of the rats tend to be not too far behind leaving the sinking ship. Will Warframe die? Who knows, ask BioWare, Bethesda and a few other companies that ignore their community. It does not take much to push things over the edge. Hyperbole aside of course. We shall see what we shall see. All I know is, I am done for now.

Who knows at this point the last 2 updates have been a complete flop.Even if this update becomes good its gonna take months.

Im just tired of people accusing white knights those types of people are either gone or such a minority now.

[Unimira]

Cryophon was the only gun I had resources to build (not rewarding crappy design by spending plat) and I prioritized other parts of the ship before trying weapons. Now I don't have the Asterite to build other guns and really don't want to farm anything with how much longer it takes compared to before (Particle nerf also hurt).

Honestly I'm surprised how severe the nerfs were without giving us much to improve the overall experience, if I hadn't completed the farm using Ivara before now Railjack probably would have gone the way of the Liches for me (completely ignored).

[ssxtriki]

they need at least to cut in HALF of resources needed to build a weapon for RJ, Because theres tons of weapons and you dont know what to build or even try them out cause the cost to build is just stupid... or double the materials gained when doing RJ missions

OR when scraping builded items return 100% of resources, that way ppl will not make rage with these kind of changes when they just flat nerf 50% dmg of weapons that they used all resources to build.

[Codex]

Its still really strong^^

[DrivaMain]

To be honest, I prefer they increase the fall off range to compensate the damage nerf. So it’s still a nerf but still powerful because it’s more consistent.

[DoomFruit]

Honestly, all I can think while looking at this is "armour has gone down, my Phaedra will kick even more arse". Because seriously, who uses a railjack to do railjack things anyway?

EDIT: I take that back, good god have they ever nerfed the S#&$ out of whatever proc it was that the Phaedra was doing that made it so effective.

Edited January 11, 2020 by DoomFruit

[Arkandae]

Didn't notice a difference with my vidar cryophon. Still one shot with crit and 2-3 shot without.

[(PSN)cdzbrbr]

None of this stupid inconsistencies would be happening if a single one of them actually played the game.

[Ham_Grenabe]

I'm leaning toward a suggestion I saw here: they really discovered they just hate the Plasmor-type weapons - Arca Plasmor, Catchmoon, Cryophon - and they can't figure out how to tell everyone they want to remove them from the game, so they just keep grinding them down. 

Eventually, they'll be healing guns that restore health to enemies.

Edited January 15, 2020 by Ham_Grenabe

[DoomFruit]

13 hours ago, Ham_Grenabe said:

I'm leaning toward a suggestion I saw here: they really discovered they just hate the Plasmor-type weapons - Arca Plasmor, Catchmoon, Cryophon - and they can't figure out how to tell everyone they want to remove them from the game, so they just keep grinding them down. 

Eventually, they'll be healing guns that restore health to enemies.

I actually had that once, back when you could get less than negative 100% crit multipliers on rivens. My healing opticor was a thing of beauty.

[zakaryx]

New meta is zetki carcinnox/apoc which both kill fighters extremely quickly after the armor changes. Both can pop bubbles and work great with both crit mods. Cryophon overheats quickly, has practically no range, and can't pop healing bubbles at all.

 

I'd highly recommend trying out the other weapons because I doubt the cryo is going to change any time soon. RIP frost shotgun

[BlackVortex]

On 2020-01-09 at 10:50 PM, zakaryx said:

Honestly if they want people to use a different weapon then we need enemies that aren't just swarming fighters.

 

Add in some long range sniping ships to make other weapons more appealing. Using the photor feels awful at close range but does some great damage against long range slowly moving enemies.

 

Having an incentive to use another weapon due to the enemies instead of how much damage it does is much more interesting.

you expect too much from DE
if DE wants you to use another weapon, they will nerf the weapon you are currently using into the ground so that you cannot use it anymore.

[BlackVortex]

On 2020-01-11 at 1:27 PM, Arkandae said:

Didn't notice a difference with my vidar cryophon. Still one shot with crit and 2-3 shot without.

thats great, my Cryophon went from 40K crits to 8K crits

Edited January 17, 2020 by BlackVortex

[Arkandae]

Il y a 7 heures, BlackVortex a dit :

thats great, my Cryophon went from 40K crits to 8K crits

And ennemies ehp has been nerfed (not as much as the cryophon damage, sure). However I don't believe your 40k dmg or it was with rhino roar, last stand or battle station maybe (or particle stacking on an outrider), because it was ~15k crit before and even sheet damage x crit multiplier wasn't 40k. It's nerfed but not useless, not nerfed into the ground and you can still use it fine, and comparing incomparable values won't do any good. Here's the math with zekti (that also got a heat accretion buff) :

 

 

[taiiat]

they could atleast make the Projectile Cryophon fires really, really big, so that it fills an AoE role and can still have a useful role in Railjack vs groups of Enemies.
since as it is now the Projectile is not even the size of a single Fighter, it's only mostly the size of one.

 

On 2020-01-11 at 6:01 AM, DoomFruit said:

Honestly, all I can think while looking at this is "armour has gone down, my Phaedra will kick even more arse". Because seriously, who uses a railjack to do railjack things anyway?

EDIT: I take that back, good god have they ever nerfed the S#&$ out of whatever proc it was that the Phaedra was doing that made it so effective.

yeah, Slash Status got dramatically nerfed. Phaedra doesn't apply a lot of it in the first place so it'll struggle even more now, just as Imperator will and the other Archguns are still useless.
everything nerfed more than Cyngas, and so then Cyngas comparitively buffed.
when they were trying to nerf that one Gun in the first place. 'anti-meta' proving itself time and time again.

[BlackVortex]

4 hours ago, Arkandae said:

And ennemies ehp has been nerfed (not as much as the cryophon damage, sure). However I don't believe your 40k dmg or it was with rhino roar, last stand or battle station maybe (or particle stacking on an outrider), because it was ~15k crit before and even sheet damage x crit multiplier wasn't 40k. It's nerfed but not useless, not nerfed into the ground and you can still use it fine, and comparing incomparable values won't do any good. Here's the math with zekti (that also got a heat accretion buff) :

old value:
~15K * 3.5 crit = ~52.5K

new value:
~5K * 2.7 crit = ~13.5K

~52.5 / ~13.5 = ~3.89x more damage on crit before than now

Edited January 17, 2020 by BlackVortex

[Arkandae]

Il y a 4 heures, BlackVortex a dit :

old value:
~15K * 3.5 crit = ~52.5K

new value:
~5K * 2.7 crit = ~13.5K

~52.5 / ~13.5 = ~3.89x more damage on crit before than now

Ok about sheet damage, but 

 

Citation

 

Armor value changes:

• Flak: 300 to 150
• Elite Flak: 350 to 175
• Taktis: 250 to 125
• Elite Taktis: 350 to 175
• Cutter: 250 to 125
• Elite Cutter: 300 to 150
• Outrider: 800 to 300
• Elite Outrider: 800 to 400

 

Well, I linked a post with someone doing all the math. 

[BlackVortex]

16 hours ago, Arkandae said:

Ok about sheet damage, but 

 

Well, I linked a post with someone doing all the math. 

1. sheet damage? the % difference in damage doesn't change, since there is no sqrt function on the damage calculation formula, on crit the weapon deals around 70-75% less damage which makes it around a quarter of its original damage on crit

2. I just did a rough estimation of the math, although I didn't use pin point accurate numbers on the base damage, you can clearly see the difference in damage output on a critical hit.

3. About the armor debuff
apparently 99% of the community doesn't know how to do proper math since -50% armor != +100% damage

Edited January 18, 2020 by BlackVortex

[Arkandae]

il y a 14 minutes, BlackVortex a dit :

1. sheet damage? the % difference in damage doesn't change, since there is no sqrt function on the damage calculation formula, on crit the weapon deals around 70-75% less damage which makes it around a quarter of its original damage on crit

Waht I was calling "sheet damage" is just what you see when modding. I said "ok" because I forgot it was 15k before.

il y a 15 minutes, BlackVortex a dit :

2. I just did a rough estimation of the math, although I didn't use pin point accurate numbers on the base damage, you can clearly see the difference in damage output on a critical hit.

Never said the contrary. However, as I said before exagerations won't do any good.

il y a 17 minutes, BlackVortex a dit :

3. About the armor debuff
apparently 99% of the community doesn't know how to do proper math since -50% armor != +100% damage

I don't know where you saw this. I never said this and I can't see this in the post I linked (he's using the proper formula, didn't check if he was right everywhere but results seem consistent). But, even without doing math, more armor before reduces the damage more, and less armor now reduces the damage less. So the values become a bit closer. 

So you're going from comparing 40k crit with 8k crit (5x damage) to 52.5k with 13.5k (3.89x) and then you add armor. And then cold damage. And hp change if you want to compare TTK. And in the end it's closer to 2x (for avg damage) or about 2.5-3x (for crit) than 5x. That's a big difference. 

Also I disagree with "they will nerf the weapon you are currently using into the ground so that you cannot use it anymore" and "cryophon is now useless" . Maybe it was hit a bit to hard since people are complaining a lot, but it's far from useless.

[BlackVortex]

1 hour ago, Arkandae said:

Waht I was calling "sheet damage" is just what you see when modding. I said "ok" because I forgot it was 15k before.

Never said the contrary. However, as I said before exagerations won't do any good.

I don't know where you saw this. I never said this and I can't see this in the post I linked (he's using the proper formula, didn't check if he was right everywhere but results seem consistent). But, even without doing math, more armor before reduces the damage more, and less armor now reduces the damage less. So the values become a bit closer. 

So you're going from comparing 40k crit with 8k crit (5x damage) to 52.5k with 13.5k (3.89x) and then you add armor. And then cold damage. And hp change if you want to compare TTK. And in the end it's closer to 2x (for avg damage) or about 2.5-3x (for crit) than 5x. That's a big difference. 

Also I disagree with "they will nerf the weapon you are currently using into the ground so that you cannot use it anymore" and "cryophon is now useless" . Maybe it was hit a bit to hard since people are complaining a lot, but it's far from useless.

compared to other weapons I would deem it semi-useless now
you can still use it, but on average it takes around 3 shots to kill an enemy now
before it was 2
where with other weapons you can kill them in the same time as cryophon was able to kill them before the nerf
and the weapons have more range and more "ammo" and more useful status

and DE clearly does nerf weapons into the ground when they feel its being overused
there are a ton of examples where they did just that(catchmoon, zenistar) and they tend to apply the same nerfing to mechanics (spin attack)

Edited January 18, 2020 by BlackVortex

[zakaryx]

7 hours ago, BlackVortex said:

compared to other weapons I would deem it semi-useless now

Pretty much.

 

https://imgur.com/a/qY8kuIY

 

Even the photor has AoE while the cryo has nothing going for it anymore. Being able to one~two shot everything was the only reason to use it in the first place. Apoc has great damage and can pop bubbles. Carcinnox has good damage and can pop bubbles and strip crew ship armor very quickly. Photor does decent damage,has AoE,and pinpoint accuracy at long range.

 

Only MKIII weapon I haven't tested yet is the pulsar.

[Hawk_of_the_Reborn]

Hm...I dunno, Cryphons were always hot garbage. Meanwhile my Vidar Carcinnoxes are even more superior now than ever before.

[(PSN)Sgt_Buttscratch]

We don't have the update on ps4 yet(lol we didn't even get the full Empyrean update(can't trade avionics)) but are we seriously crying about "2-3" hits ......such an over dramatic use of "RIP' get a grip kids