Early Christmass? 15 Shards for Tenebrous Ephemera...

[actuallyVile]

1 minute ago, BlackVortex said:

clearly DE wanted the Tenebrous Ephemera to be the rarest Ephemera of all (I got 3 red caches in around 900 runs)
so how come Lich Ephemeras are still +/- 30 hours per Ephemera while the Tenebrous just dropped from +/- 50 hours to +/- 2 hours

Clearly they changed their mind.
You'd have to ask DE, not me. Also where did you get the 30 hours from? If you really want a Lich ephemera, you can just trade for it and have it within 30-180 minutes.

[BlackVortex]

4 minutes ago, -AxHx-Vile said:

Clearly they changed their mind.
You'd have to ask DE, not me. Also where did you get the 30 hours from? If you really want a Lich ephemera, you can just trade for it and have it within 30-180 minutes.

that means someone else still had to grind that +/- 10 Liches(10% spawn chance) for it
also average time for a Lich is around 3 hours for me(im usually not lucky on guesses) hence 30 hours

Edited January 23, 2020 by BlackVortex

[actuallyVile]

2 minutes ago, BlackVortex said:

that means someone else still had to grind that +/- 10 Liches(10% spawn chance) for it
also average time for a Lich is around 3 hours hence 30 hours

Or someone just got lucky, got that Lich very swiftly, perhaps even as first or second, and decided to sell it. 
Just like how you could've gotten lucky with getting the Ephemera swiftly. But you didn't. So be it. Neither did I.

[Midas]

3 hours ago, BlackVortex said:

I didn't mind too much that the Tenebrous Ephemera was going to be a non-RNG grind instead of a RNG grind
but 15 shards? are you kidding me?

from what I understood that means 8 completed runs to get it. Which means around 1-2 hours of play

for the people that already have gotten it the old way this is a big slap in the face

most of us literally wasted up to around a hundred hours trying to get it

200 tokens would have been more appropriate considering the spawn chance of the cache was less than 1% per run and the drop chance of the Ephemera was not 100% per cache

edit:
considering I only own 1 Lich Ephemera, how about making that spawn rate 100%?
in that case it still costs more time than getting the Tenebrous Ephemera and it's a lot more tedious

Do you have a better solution?
Do you realize the number of people that got it the old way is probably under 10, even 5?

This solution is wonderful, Digital Extremes done did a good here.

You can get a shard from completing the mission and killing 20 sentients from objective.

You can also do it twice in an hour.

4 shards per ship potentially.

[kapn655321]

[BlackVortex]

Just now, Midas said:

Do you have a better solution?
Do you realize the number of people that got it the old way is probably under 10, even 5?

This solution is wonderful, Digital Extremes done did a good here.

You can get a shard from completing the mission and killing 20 sentients from objective.

You can also do it twice in an hour.

4 shards per ship potentially.

I doubt there are less than 10 people that got it the old way, probably closer to 200

for the 100th time I don't mind them getting rid of the RNG element
but you can actually acquire the Ephemera in one day now, which isn't much of an achievement which was the whole goal of Ephemeras to begin with

[BlackVortex]

8 minutes ago, -AxHx-Vile said:

Or someone just got lucky, got that Lich very swiftly, perhaps even as first or second, and decided to sell it. 
Just like how you could've gotten lucky with getting the Ephemera swiftly. But you didn't. So be it. Neither did I.

I wonder how people with 7/7 Lich ephemera's would feel if Liches spawned Ephemeras 100% of the time, that would be around equal to the effort you need to do for the Tenebrous right now

[Midas]

Just now, BlackVortex said:

I doubt there are less than 10 people that got it the old way, probably closer to 200

for the 100th time I don't mind them getting rid of the RNG element
but you can actually acquire the Ephemera in one day now, which isn't much of an achievement which was the whole goal of Ephemeras to begin with

Then let it be different with trials, in fact I am planning to write a feedback on the shop system, I think it is a good alternative to RNG. I just think the drop chance of Tokens from bosses/phases in Trials/New War should have drop rates for tokens. The shop would let you select the drop you wanted specifically like this system does.

The shop system in Warframe is a very good solution for a quick fix problem right now.

[BlackVortex]

3 minutes ago, Midas said:

Then let it be different with trials, in fact I am planning to write a feedback on the shop system, I think it is a good alternative to RNG. I just think the drop chance of Tokens from bosses/phases in Trials/New War should have drop rates for tokens. The shop would let you select the drop you wanted specifically like this system does.

The shop system in Warframe is a very good solution for a quick fix problem right now.

I agree the token system is a lot better, but then again I have been asking for a token system for practically every RNG element in the game for more than 6 years(prime gear, mods, arcanes etc...)
and apparently DE likes to make people grind RNG

Edited January 23, 2020 by BlackVortex

[Midas]

1 minute ago, BlackVortex said:

I agree the token system is a lot better, but then again I have been asking for a token system for practically every RNG element in the game for more than 6 years(prime gear, mods, arcanes etc...)

I'd be down with them converting to a full on Token system, it is a good potential solution for both people that like to farm Eidolons/Trials/Bosses and those that want to casually play the game.

Tradable tokens for trials would allow trial lovers to earn income

tokens can be bought to get gear from trials without running it, although at a determined price.

I think it is a great comprise, nothing seems to satisfy this community, and I feel this may just do so.

Edited January 23, 2020 by Midas

[BlackVortex]

Just now, Midas said:

I'd be down with them converting to a full on Token system, it is a good potential solution for both people that like to farm Eidolons/Trials/Bosses and those that want to casually play the game.

Tradable tokens for trials would allow trial lovers to earn income

tokens can be bought to get gear from trials without running it, although at a determined price.

im pretty sure DE likes RNG because of the gambling element which makes people addicted to playing

[actuallyVile]

5 minutes ago, BlackVortex said:

I wonder how people with 7/7 Lich ephemera's would feel if Liches spawned Ephemeras 100% of the time, that would be around equal to the effort you need to do for the Tenebrous right now

They might feel as entitled as you do.
And it won't matter.

[kapn655321]

Just now, BlackVortex said:

im pretty sure DE likes RNG because of the gambling element which makes people addicted to playing

It's also that if it weren't for RNG, players could clock precisely how long it takes to beat each update, demanding DE churn content to that pace.

[Midas]

1 minute ago, BlackVortex said:

im pretty sure DE likes RNG because of the gambling element which makes people addicted to playing

I agree, but more players will buy plat to buy tokens

more plat = grofit

[(PSN)Laertide]

18 minutes ago, BlackVortex said:

if you think that is fair then you have no moral standards

do you understand that what you wrote is extremely offensive?

It doesn't seem to me that you answered constructively, but you only demonstrated the maturity of a child

[(XBOX)KayAitch]

20 minutes ago, BlackVortex said:

around 900 uncompleted missions which take around 3-5 minutes each (2700-4500 minutes total) vs 200 completed missions which take around 10-20 minutes each (2000-4000 minutes total) is fair imho

Including loading more like 8-10 and critically (as you're basically save-scumming) you can do them in sequence.

Complete an anomaly mission (as in actually complete the mission, doing the other objective and killing 90 fighters/6 crewships/20 sentients) means you don't have time to try again so have to wait hours for the next window. It's barely even possible in the time the mission type has been available to play. 45 mins is a better average, so 8 of them will be 6 hours spread over days, weeks or months.

You put yourself through a crazy grind to get a thing you thought was exclusive to that, it isn't, was never intended to be, and now you want it to be exclusive to your crazy grind.

26 minutes ago, BlackVortex said:

getting it in that manner while completing the mission would have taken thousands of hours, DE knows speed running is a method of obtaining drops in Warframe or are you saying they are ignorant?

I'm saying they made a mistake, realised it, pulled it, and out it back in with a mechanism that encourages good player behaviour (completing missions) as opposed to bad (rinse anomaly and abort).

I suspect the drop rates were in line with there being a load of New War missions on that tileset, with the ephemera being found organically by most players in those missions like Ayatans or Frame Fighters.

Then they did one and only one sentient tileset mission on a timer and forgot to take it out.

The definitely did not intend players to save-scum the anomaly on a timer to try and grind the drop. They've made this kind of mistake before and pulled it every time.

32 minutes ago, BlackVortex said:

nothing is a buggy exploit about aborting a mission

There is, but we can agree to disagree on that, you do know that isn't how they mean for the game to be played? Abort is a fail state and most dice rolls are kept behind mission completion for a reason. Want to know what that Apothic Spectre gave you? Complete the mission. Want to know what was in the relic? Complete the mission.

DE have closed off the save-scumming mechanic every time. They see it as an exploit.

35 minutes ago, BlackVortex said:

no pain go gain, it was the rarest ephemera, not anymore

Ephemera were never intended to be Veblen goods. That's not what they were designed for. DE have been clear about that, which is why the Arbitration random drop ended up in the arbiters' shop, and that's fate of all ephemera.

You might think you have something super rare and exclusive, but chances are DE think they have a cool cosmetic reward for the next Nightwave or Twitch drop.

38 minutes ago, BlackVortex said:

do you think it's fair towards the players who spent around a hundred hours into this that now everyone is able to get it in 1-2 hours of playing?

Yes.

I dispute your assumptions on the time it will take, but yes, I think it's fair. DE don't owe you anything, they gave you a game for free and you're whining about the time you wasted doing boring repetitive tasks in it for a reward nobody ever said would be exclusive.

They are under no obligation to balance their game for your OCD.

[Midas]

1 minute ago, kapn655321 said:

It's also that if it weren't for RNG, players could clock precisely how long it takes to beat each update, demanding DE churn content to that pace.

This is quite a strong argument, it puts us in a vortex of chaos still. This problem will ensue forever, thus a paradox.

Edited January 23, 2020 by Midas

[BlackVortex]

Just now, -AxHx-Vile said:

They might feel as entitled as you do.
And it won't matter.

doing these kinds of things makes people quit the game, I guess the only reason they did it with Tenebrous was because the amount of people who owned it was small enough for them not to care

[Duality52]

54 minutes ago, (PS4)ChaosTheNerd said:

Meh it's just a dumb cosmetic, idk why we are all going crazy as if it's excalibur prime or something 

While it is a cosmetic, OP's argument echoes back to the controversial "slap in the face of veterans" similar to the Hema Research and Universal Medallions. Similar situations occurred but were resolved, such as the Plains economy at launch and Arbitrations as examples:

• The Orb Vallis & Fortuna: Arcanes are pre-crafted instead of being crafted individually. Bonus objectives results in bonus reward and standing. Conservation adds another efficient form of farming Standing (Floofs too). Most of these improvements returned to the Plains Remaster last April.
• Arbitrations: Vitus Essence can be earned from Arbitration Drones, which can be affected by Boosters. Can also be dropped as a bonus of 3 in a rotational reward, resulting in 4 in one rotation. Most importantly, Vitus Essence gain rate got doubled from the normal rotation reward time. Thus, endless missions for higher drone density such as Survival and even Defense will generall give out more Essence.

49 minutes ago, BlackVortex said:

All I read is: I don't care other people are being treated unfairly if it gives me an advantage

36 minutes ago, BlackVortex said:

if you think that is fair then you have no moral standards

I never thought it possible to see a real world equivalent of an Orokin until now. Nothing much I would say other than how disappointing it was to see that.

[Midas]

Just now, Duality52 said:

While it is a cosmetic, OP's argument echoes back to the controversial "slap in the face of veterans" similar to the Hema Research and Universal Medallions. Similar situations occurred but were resolved, such as the Plains economy at launch and Arbitrations as examples:

• The Orb Vallis & Fortuna: Arcanes are pre-crafted instead of being crafted individually. Bonus objectives results in bonus reward and standing. Conservation adds another efficient form of farming Standing (Floofs too). Most of these improvements returned to the Plains Remaster last April.
• Arbitrations: Vitus Essence can be earned from Arbitration Drones, which can be affected by Boosters. Can also be dropped as a bonus of 3 in a rotational reward, resulting in 4 in one rotation. Most importantly, Vitus Essence gain rate got doubled from the normal rotation reward time. Thus, endless missions for higher drone density such as Survival and even Defense will generall give out more Essence.

I never thought it possible to see a real world equivalent of an Orokin until now. Nothing much I would say other than how disappointing it was to see that.

Try any monarch in history = Orokin.

[Educated_Beast]

Here I was thinking 15 runs was to many since I've already done significantly more than that.  

Seriously man, it's time to re-evaluate your life goals.  This is your fault for grinding that and no one else's.  I took one look at that grind and said no way.

If someone has an exclusive and all proud about it (like lotus one when so many people got screwed out of on twitch drops), I just smile and walk away.  

This is going to come as a surprise but someone needs to tell you.  No one cares but you.  

 

[Duality52]

Just now, Midas said:

Try any monarch in history = Orokin.

Most of them, but not that extreme as:

Spoiler

Ballas essentially ordering a genocide of his people as a result of killing his love.

 

[actuallyVile]

4 minutes ago, BlackVortex said:

doing these kinds of things makes people quit the game, I guess the only reason they did it with Tenebrous was because the amount of people who owned it was small enough for them not to care

I highly doubt Tenebrous Ephemera owners will now quit. But yes, if they do, it's a very small number. A risk DE is willing to take, no doubt.

[(XBOX)Kuhl MC]

The whole matter needs to be considered from a business perspective imo. If one or two dozends of players, who farmed the Ephemera the hard way regardless of the broken drop probability, leave the game now because they are angry, that's not much of a deal for DE. On the other hand, if thousands of players stop to play their new content, because it's simply a waste of time due to the abysmal RNG walls and eventually leave the game, because there is nothing interesting or incentivizing to do anymore, that's a different story. DE needs to make money with their product and this will only happen, if their product satifies the majority of their customers... 

[BlackVortex]

2 minutes ago, Educated_Beast said:

Here I was thinking 15 runs was to many since I've already done significantly more than that.  

Seriously man, it's time to re-evaluate your life goals.  This is your fault for grinding that and no one else's.  I took one look at that grind and said no way.

If someone has an exclusive and all proud about it (like lotus one when so many people got screwed out of on twitch drops), I just smile and walk away.  

This is going to come as a surprise but someone needs to tell you.  No one cares but you.  

 

So it's my fault for investing the time DE wanted players to invest in getting a rare item, only to diminish the rarity of said item because too many players were crying about how rare it was?