Reconsider the change to Rush Repair Drone!!!

[FCCLISH]

DE, please reconsider the change to Rush Repair Drone!!! You changed the method for getting equipment to breaking rocks in Railjack Missions (Need too much titanium!!!)!!!  I think both I and you would've preferred working off the platinum!!!

[Aldain]

It sets a dangerous precedent for future grinding, I'm glad they've retracted it if only because it shows they still have SOME self-respect left.

...Now if just they would just deflate the Titanium requirements a bit everything would be fine.

[trst]

You just can't please everyone.

You can still get drones as a reward from Veil missions (0.25% chance but it's still there). And if you want to spend plat then just buy a resource booster, with one you can easily get 10k+ from clearing out a mission.

3 minutes ago, Aldain said:

It sets a dangerous precedent for future grinding, I'm glad they've retracted it if only because it shows they still have SOME self-respect left.

...Now if just they would just deflate the Titanium requirements a bit everything would be fine.

It sets nothing worse than foundry rush costs, buying gear from the market, or Lich/Riven trading already does. If the weapons were built in your foundry nobody would have batted an eye at the ability to rush them.

[kapn655321]

OP, I'd like to share with you a comment from today by user

Spoiler

 

@ModerateConservative About the monetization.

"Can we discuss how the monetization in this game is overpriced and predatory. Asking anywhere from $5 to up to $200 for platinum is ridiculous, I am also going to lump in the prime access, prime vaults, and the various starter kits that are sold as well. Quick thing on the prime access is that its marketing is predatory in nature for a full prime access it is valued at $380, but is sold to consumers at a "discounted" price of $140. The reason why platinum is so incredibly overpriced is to incentivize customers to purchase them when a %50 or a %75 coupon can be applied to these purchases. Also these coupons only work on platinum and nothing else. 

Could we have a discussion about how to monetize your game without it being predatory. 

I know that some people will try and counter this argument by saying "Uh but _____. Why would you pay money for platinum. Just trade in game to get platinum." My reason for taking beef with this monetization is that it shows up every time you log in, and every time that you enter the in game store it takes up center stage.

Another argument is that I have heard is this "Buying DE's premium currency only supports them." Overpaying for goods that are intentionally overpriced is such a scummy tactic, that is meant to suck the money out of a consumer's wallet. 

Please reconsider how to monetize your game, without having to resort to scummy tactics in order to make money."

 

So... If we have users feeling like DE's, "crossing the Rubicon," already, reverting that change is going to be both untimely and intensely contested.

They made the Rush Repair Drone feature to be used by folks like yourself, but consider it's also seen as giving DE an excuse to make RNG worse, while profiting more off of, "point of pain," purchases. Whether or not any of us agree with the sentiments expressed, we must acknowledge that those concerns are not without reason, and stand to effect DE's reputation. (And if they're devaluing sentiment around DE, and DE raises rates to combat that... that could be very bad indeed.)
 

Edited January 30, 2020 by kapn655321

[DarthIronclad]

Resource boosters help a lot, but would be nice if they have toned down the resource cost of wreckage to something more reasonable...

Anyway i have to admit that i used the drone to rush some of my mk3 wreckage,they got removed when i was midway through getting my stuff to be full mk3 wreckage...and have to manually farm the res manual for the remaining ones...i will say low level earth missions is the best place to farm titanium and the more common RJ resourses...

[taiiat]

19 minutes ago, Aldain said:

It sets a dangerous precedent for future grinding, I'm glad they've retracted it if only because it shows they still have SOME self-respect left.

though, the avenue to buy things in Railjack instead would be to buy Boosters, which for the less continuously active Players is probably more Plat spent overall both per item and over the life of their Railjack.
and then such a less active Player maybe would buy some Smeeta Imprints from someone too, and maybe buy XP Boosters too, Et Cetera.

the reason for it to be removed could just be good business, not necessarily actually removing incentive to spend money.
i'm not making any decision whether it is or was not, but, there is a possibility there.

[(PSN)Hiero_Glyph]

25 minutes ago, trst said:

You just can't please everyone.

You can still get drones as a reward from Veil missions (0.25% chance but it's still there). And if you want to spend plat then just buy a resource booster, with one you can easily get 10k+ from clearing out a mission.

It sets nothing worse than foundry rush costs, buying gear from the market, or Lich/Riven trading already does. If the weapons were built in your foundry nobody would have batted an eye at the ability to rush them.

The foundry lets you build with zero materials invested? Rush Repair Drones do.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

36 minutes ago, Aldain said:

Now if just they would just deflate the Titanium requirements a bit everything would be fine.

THIS! THIIIIIIIIIIIIIIISSSS!!!!

as a console player, I've made sure to keep at least one drone handy while we can still buy them. probably the one advantage we actually have in Railjack's current state (but fixes are actually on the way now, thank god.). i do feel it was starting to blur the lines a bit though, between actually giving players a choice and the alternative of doing what many AAA games have done and continue to do: artificially inflate the grind to encourage monetization, effectively making a problem and selling the solution, or "Solution Selling", if you watch a certain youtuber. at least now people will be able to obtain them for free, but only when the stars align with RNGsus.

13 minutes ago, taiiat said:

the reason for it to be removed could just be good business

Edited January 30, 2020 by (PS4)robotwars7

[trst]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)Hiero_Glyph said:

The foundry lets you build with zero materials invested? Rush Repair Drones do.

Buying something off the market does which also skips: all required grind, associated quests, any research cost/prerequisites, other weapons used in construction, and in some cases skipping mastery requirements.

If the drones were a genuine concern then DE selling frames and weapons in the market is a predatory scam.

[(PSN)Hiero_Glyph]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)robotwars7 said:

THIS! THIIIIIIIIIIIIIIISSSS!!!!

as a console player, I've made sure to keep at least one drone handy while we can still buy them. probably the one advantage we actually have in Railjack's current state (but fixes are actually on the way now, thank god.). i do feel it was starting to blur the lines a bit though, between actually giving players a choice and the alternative of doing what many AAA games have done and continue to do: artificially inflate the grind to encourage monetization, effectively making a problem and selling the solution, or "Solution Selling", if you watch a certain youtuber. at elast now people will be able to obtain them for free, but only when the stars align with RNGsus.

Yeah, the entire progression curve for Railjack is so bad it's obvious DE didn't test it one bit. Mk I's are obsolete by the time you can even get the resources to craft them. Mk II's are a complete waste of resurces because by the time you can craft them you are so close to Mk III's anyway. So why do Mk I and II even exist at this point? They serve no purpose in their current state.

At the very least Mk I parts need to have their repair costs reduced to 1/10 of their current amount, and Mk II need to be dropped to 1/3. This would at least allow player to repair parts they find in Earth Proxima while they are still useful and help to prepare them for Saturn Proxima. And as for compensation, DE could credit players with X rush repair drones for changing the build costs,  based on the number of parts they have repaired (similar to how they refunded forma when making major changes to warframes).

[(PSN)Hiero_Glyph]

2 minutes ago, trst said:

Buying something off the market does which also skips: all required grind, associated quests, any research cost/prerequisites, other weapons used in construction, and in some cases skipping mastery requirements.

If the drones were a genuine concern then DE selling frames and weapons in the market is a predatory scam.

Items sold in the market do not have RNG stats though. So it's a one-time purchase, and some exclusion do apply. Rush Repair Drones apply to every Railjack item except clan research, IIRC.

I mean if every time you built or purchased a Warframe or weapon it had a random modifier, then, yeah, it would be very predatory to sell them in the market. And while this is far less of an issue on PC as you have had several QoL updates, consoles have been on the same build since before holiday break so the situation is dire over here.

[kapn655321]

Not sure if folks are laughing at the contents of the post I shared, or because they think I support them.
Merely pointing out that they are one of many users who are poised to be supremely reactive (negatively) against monetization practices like OP requests.
It's a perspective they may have not encountered, so I made sure they encountered it.

Those aren't my words or opinions as I stated.. but, whatever y'all.

I'm happy with DE making money so they don't go under, and part of that also hinges on them having a reputation for user positive monetization in the gaming industry.

Edited January 30, 2020 by kapn655321

[FCCLISH]

It literally makes no sense for them as a company to do what they did.

We need good pilots with good ships for them to even think about getting through some of the higher end missions which are difficult.  Rush Repair Drone was the ONLY way to get to this content without insane grinding.  The rest of the game is pay-to-skip-grind, why can't this?  But you actually screwed up now, because no one can make good weapons and ships without a long wait for materials like titanium and asterite.  You don't receive Titanium or Asterite many of the times you go into missions because it just doesn't drop from the actual objectives, just from breaking rocks by running into them with your ship or shooting them.

Now it's actually hard to get into the missions (if you don't own a decent ship) and once you are in, the problems with the bugs and the content are harsher because the random ships you queue into are worse.  I have turned into a full time pilot because there barely are any more people with decent railjacks, but I was lucky enough to trick out a few MK 3 pieces with rush repair drones earlier (Is this fair?).  Now people are desperate to queue into these missions and experience this awesome content.  Why don't you let them?

[(PSN)Hiero_Glyph]

17 minutes ago, Foolfist said:

It literally makes no sense for them as a company to do what they did.

We need good pilots with good ships for them to even think about getting through some of the higher end missions which are difficult.  Rush Repair Drone was the ONLY way to get to this content without insane grinding.  The rest of the game is pay-to-skip-grind, why can't this?  But you actually screwed up now, because no one can make good weapons and ships without a long wait for materials like titanium and asterite.  You don't receive Titanium or Asterite many of the times you go into missions because it just doesn't drop from the actual objectives, just from breaking rocks by running into them with your ship or shooting them.

Now it's actually hard to get into the missions (if you don't own a decent ship) and once you are in, the problems with the bugs and the content are harsher because the random ships you queue into are worse.  I have turned into a full time pilot because there barely are any more people with decent railjacks, but I was lucky enough to trick out a few MK 3 pieces with rush repair drones earlier (Is this fair?).  Now people are desperate to queue into these missions and experience this awesome content.  Why don't you let them?

This basically explains why it was predatory. Thr progression curve is garbage otherwise, doubly so for consoles.

[kapn655321]

10 minutes ago, Foolfist said:

It literally makes no sense for them as a company to do what they did.

I think their financial team would agree with you, which is why they tried it.

The player base saw the principle of it's cost, as a point of pain equal to or greater than the grind.. both felt higher than they were comfortable with. To truly effectively influence their design choices are by Not Interacting. By driving up the scarcity for players obtaining reward pay out, you scale up it's respective value.. Until you price yourself out of the (very competitive) market.  ^{If it hurts, people can pay out of it.. So just leverage that super hard, and viola, right?}

I once worked in retail, where the regional manager's sentiment was, "Send em home broke!" I quit because of that. Reason being: That person does not intend to recognize a reasonable threshold in regards to leveraging other people's pain for their benefit. That means some day, I'm next. No thanks.

"Never run to your A**whoopin'."
When a person or entity intends to, "make em hurt as much as possible," the, "Them's," in question are then required to respect another's sense of self worth over their own; contributing to that asks a person to lose principal ground and livlyhood to another. That in itself is not a commodity people have any specific interest in purchasing, and if people are seeing that proposition instead of the benefit, then you've priced yourself out of the market. Running a good business also means not making a significant amount of your customers resent you in the process, which is a delicate balance. More over, if all there are left are people paying through the nose for meager earnings, you might just be catering objectively to addicts.. (people's who's sense of necessity overrides the self preservation that keeps us from, "running to our own asswhooping.")

If we sense coercion, our brains have lots of little systems designed for alerting us to it and rebuking that influence. DE tested this threshold between, "I'll put up with it.." and "I can just play a different game for my sense of reward instead," and learned more about where they can set their price/grind, for us to remain playing. DE has been able to run a business for years without setting off our defensive systems to this degree. Should the values be wrong for the audience, then the game feels to much like a chore or a job, and we find our excitement elsewhere; the game is then left with fewer players to fund it, and those people would be the stones they bleed until there's nothing left of your customer. We'd rather they not do that to our comrades, lest they be exalted vampire feeding off of troubled addicts. Game's over when we lose too much to win too little.

A lot of the issue is also, the timing. Players were still sore about unchecked value propositions within Lich that set them off. We were primed to catch that, practiced to excited to refuse it, and did. No surprise.

TL;DR: The product presented risk to income worth more than they were certain to earn from it.

[FCCLISH]

The regional manager's sentiment was, "Send em home broke!"    -- The person forgot to add why, and you forgot that this person doesn't exist in a vacuum.  The manager told you this, because if you don't, the store next door will gladly do the same for them instead.  Therefore, don't send them there.  Have faith in your own product because if you don't, you can't be as good of a salesperson as someone else.  And, the whole retail situation breaks down.  What happens when you walk into a store and the people there aren't interested in selling you anything?  They are sorta just there.  And you walk out, feeling stupid, because they are.  You hope they go out of business.  Don't sell your competitor's product for them, because they aren't going to do the same for you for free.   Railjack is an awesome product.  More awesome with Rush Repair Drones, but I'll survive without, as I farm my endless Intrinsics, because I'm having fun.  What I would really like is to see the game flourish more, and it feels like it is not AS MUCH lately after the changes to Rush Repair Drones.  It's just not fun to try to upgrade or build a good ship anymore.  At least you had a way to go about doing the grind.  Now there's nothing to do to craft a decent ship except.... BREAK ROCKS FOR TITANIUM WHEN I SHOULD BE DOING MISSION OBJECTIVES.

 

But you're lucky if you make it onto my ship.  I worked my ass off for like 1-2 weeks during the holidays, got a little help with Rush Repair Drones, and I was hoping to do more and this week I come to find out they're gone.  Yeouch, the rug is pulled out from under me, and all I wanted to do was give DE some cash :)  Hell, they sell an empyrean supporter pack.  And I bought it after I tried a few missions cause it feels just awesome to play and there's nothing as good as it right now.

 

The in game economy was doing better with Rush Repair Drones as well.  We had, and have, a decent currency that we could use to develop our ship arsenal, and it wasn't a coincidence that the highest demand item (Void Hole)  ran out to around 50p (The cost of one rush repair drone).  Remember, anyone can queue into the mission without building their railjack and work on farming these Void Holes, and the demand was high for them.  Of course the demand has dropped a lot over time as more of the Void Holes are farmed and make their way into player's inventories, but it's almost like it's up and down right now.  Wacky.  Not a good situation, especially considering the changes didn't fix anything, or they attempted to fix something that wasn't broken with dire consequences.

 

I have friends that I want to recommend the game to, but I find it hard to do so because of the changes in direction so often from development.  Right now, we are in a delay situation.  I am waiting to see before I really start pestering my friends to download Warframe.  I can see the good in the system of being able to spend platinum to skip/speed up content.  Why can't anyone else?  All the other content in the game works the same.  Woo the casual players because they bring a good atmosphere.  And money.  Don't make changes supported by a small, extremely vocal player base of players that have been around awhile.  These players do not want change because something in the system lets them benefit from their high status already.  If you need a high end guild or team to do railjack, you're giving your company's power away to a base that doesn't necessarily want what's best for your company.  Do they even spend much money to play? I don't see how, considering they have everything already.

 

 

[Yamazuki]

Resource booster is already a method involving plat that greatly reduces time spent getting resources. I'm unsure why you would be having issues with Titianium if you had already used multiple drones when they were available, especially if you apparently played a lot before. It's also a waste of time to go around looking for resources when the mission is over, just use ram and quickly do missions. I've never spent time going around looking for resources, and I'm still sitting on an excess of them. I got multiple MKIII sets before even seeing one Void Hole.

Edited January 31, 2020 by Yamazuki

[Aldain]

To better articulate my earlier point to those who responded to me:

The reason for why these are not the same as rushing the foundry is that they skip both the time AND the grind.

While buying a weapon/frame may be similar, the difference is that when you buy a weapon it is a fixed weapon, no +/- to any of the stats, whereas a repair drone is used on VARIABLE stats, which means that a player may wind up spending far more on drones then they ever would on a weapon or Warframe.

The repair drones also ONLY effect Empyrean, whereas a purchased weapon/frame can be used in any content, Rush drones are far less ubiquitous than a resource booster and outright encouraged people to NOT play a game mode, which in all honesty even if it were the most fun game mode in the world people would pay to bypass because of impatience anyway.

[FCCLISH]

I used multiple drones on some quick Mk3 pieces that I found early on but there wasn't any rhyme or reason to it.  I built a few guns, three to be exact (Not sure if I repair droned 2 and repaired 1 with materials, etc,  or used three repair drones, either way the drones weren't very expensive), and promptly found I didn't like the feel of one of the guns.  The other two, one works great on the nose turret but even though it's a Mk3, it's a hell of a bad one (Good enough to get you started, but a terrrible specimen once you have seen a few ones with good random stats).  Shoudn't have been a problem, because a Rush Repair Drone was available in case I mess up, and I need to build a better gun.  Oh wait, now it's not.

On the systems end of my ship, I bought the Sigma Mk3 Reactor/Shield/Engine because they built quick (instantly I think?) and my clan was good enough to research them early, and even though they used quite a bit of resources like titanium, I knew I might be able to buy a Rush Repair Drone or two to cover my ship JUST IN CASE once I started finding better Shields/Reactors/Engines.  Not now though.  Penalized for doing exactly what I was supposed to.  If I knew this was going to happen, I would've NEVER used up mats on Sigma Reactors.  I need 15k Titanium and equivalent Asterite to make anything and I estimate it will take me a week of solid grinding per ship system/weapon that I need to repair.  This is an INSANE CHANGE.

Edited January 31, 2020 by Foolfist

[JackHargreav]

Meh It's not really needed anymore.

A few Earth missions will give you enough material, like Titanium.

And the building can be rushed just like the normal stuff.

[FCCLISH]

46 minutes ago, JackHargreav said:

Meh It's not really needed anymore.

A few Earth missions will give you enough material, like Titanium.

And the building can be rushed just like the normal stuff.

Can you be more specific about which missions give Titanium?  Because I'm not finding it.  I wouldn't mind going into lower level missions to collect resources, but, alas, I don't think you can.  It appears to be just random what resources you get, certain ones don't appear to drop more often on Earth or anywhere else, and you're better off farming as high of a mission as you can to work on the long Intrinsics grind (Not saying it shouldn't be long, just saying we need decent weapons and ships for it).

[JackHargreav]

5 minutes ago, Foolfist said:

Can you be more specific about which missions give Titanium?  Because I'm not finding it.  I wouldn't mind going into lower level missions to collect resources, but, alas, I don't think you can.  It appears to be just random what resources you get, certain ones don't appear to drop more often on Earth or anywhere else, and you're better off farming as high of a mission as you can to work on the long Intrinsics grind (Not saying it shouldn't be long, just saying we need decent weapons and ships for it).

The first mission can give you 2000 titanium per run.

However you have to stay in for some time smashing rocks. Which also gives you asterite sometimes. You can end up with 100-150 asterite.

[kapn655321]

3 hours ago, Foolfist said:

Don't make changes supported by a small, extremely vocal player base of players that have been around awhile.  These players do not want change because something in the system lets them benefit from their high status already.

Or, don't buck your returning customers for one extremely vocal customer.

[(PSN)Midcall]

vor 20 Stunden schrieb trst:

You just can't please everyone.

You can still get drones as a reward from Veil missions (0.25% chance but it's still there). And if you want to spend plat then just buy a resource booster, with one you can easily get 10k+ from clearing out a mission.

It sets nothing worse than foundry rush costs, buying gear from the market, or Lich/Riven trading already does. If the weapons were built in your foundry nobody would have batted an eye at the ability to rush them.

Is this really true ? I bought 10 drones on stock but if you re able to get 10k in one misson why would u ever want a drone again? Currenty on ps4 i still get around 200-300 Titanium for a 30-45 minute misson with all booster, so there was zero chance to casually build some of this stuff. But with those numbers u mentioned i  would be fine

[FCCLISH]

5 minutes ago, kapn655321 said:

Or, don't buck your returning customers for one extremely vocal customer.

It's not just me, though.  Have you tried the content?  Do you have any constructive suggestions?