Kuva weapons, MR, Lvl 40 and a whole lot of Forma

[Karasokami]

So, I just recently noticed, that Kuva Weapons give MR till they are Lvl 40, and for Lvl 40 You need 5 Forma on a weapon. That result in some problems, let me explain:

There are currently 13 Kuva weapons in the game, and 2 new are confirmed for the next Update which leaves us with 15 Kuva weapons(There will be definetly more in the Future, but we will go with that for now).

15 x 5 = 75, so you need 75 Forma in total if you want maximum MR for now, so, every Forma has a crafting time of 12 Hours which leaves us with 900 hours in crafting time, or 36 Days. Thats a whole month, and only if you perfectly craft 2 Forma a day with 12 Hours each. If you like only have time to log onto Warframe once a day with like 2-6 Hours a session you can only craft one Forma a day, that leaves us with 72 Days. Thats over two Months! And there are simlpy better ways to spend Forma than to waste it on weapons only for maximum MR (Not saying that Kuva weapons are bad, but not everyone is interested in an 5 Forma Kraken).

I know this is not an very complicated or hard Grind, but it just seems like an unreasonable and dry way to force Players to either be patience and wait 1-2 Months will driving insane, or have them spend all the sweet Platinum one got by Selling an overpriced Rhino Prime set to an newbie last night on Forma.

Lvl 40 is not the Problem here, it worked on the Paracesis, it was an special original Orokin Weapon, made by Ballas himself, the Famous sentient slayer, and as such, it was the first and only Weapon with Lvl 40. Now, we got an whole system based on Lvl 40 Grinner weapons, as an lazy excuse for there not being any Grineer Prime weapons.

The problem simply is that Forma is not desinged in way of it being something mass farmed for something like MR. More as a way to make a weapon you really care about even better. I had no problem putting 5 Forma on my Paracesis, first because I am a Lore fanatic, second because it was just a good weapon, where I gladly Investet (It currently is my most played Melee weapon)

So, lets not just Complain here, lets give some suggestion on how to fix that.

 

An easy and obvious solution would problably be to either make the Weapons accesible to Lvl 40 with less (1-2) or even without Forma. Or to let it only give MR points till Lvl 30, and the additinal ten levels are just an extra.

Or simply remove Lvl 40 from Kuva weapons, there are others ways to make Weapons Special. The Valence Transfer, where you can Infuse weapons with each other is a system that could be built on for example. Or, if it should be something based on Forma, how about this: Mods on polarized Slots on Kuva weapons are Stronger. Let me give an quick and simple example:

Serration on an Normal Slot: +165% Damge

Serration on an polarized Kuve weapon slot: +200% Damge

Somthing like this i think could be interesting, if balanced correctly.

 

Or lets take an whole another approach. Let's fix Forma. (Or the way to obtain it, to be more precisly).

My first suggestion in not only something that would fix this problem in an instant, but would also be a big Quality if Life chage to the complete Game. Let us Craft multtiple intsances of the same Item at the same time. 

Many people complain about crafting times, but while that never bothers me, (A warframe just cant be assembled in an instant, 3 days still a lot though), what bothers me the whole time, is that our Foundry can craft 10 different weapons and 5 different Warframes at the same time, but not Multiple Forma at once (Not only Forma, but its the best example for this thread).

What would make this even better, would be the possibility to abtain Forma from Syndicates. Maybe something like 5k - 10k Standing for a blueprint on like lvl 2 or 3 with the syndicate of your choice. And then on Lvl 5 for like 20k - 30k for an already finished Forma.

Last but not least, an sollution that will probably never make it into the game, but that I want to talk about anyway, Simply remove the Forma Blueprint. Let us get an already build, ready to use Forma out of Relics, just like that.

DE, I understand that you want to make Kuva weapons something special, but please dont do that by making them especially Grindy. Obtaining them is already hard enough.

So, this is all I wanted to say. I think I should apologize for my bad english, I'm not an native speaker. Anyway, thank you for reading my post, have a great day, and may RNG be in your favor.

 

 

 

Edited January 31, 2020 by Karasokami
Better to read

[Asphyxxia]

I'm fine with this. Warframe is a long term game and two months isn't much. Besides, I assume one will be running fissures for Forma blueprints, and doing other stuff too. There's always room for a semi-passive Plat income to buy Forma bundles if player desires to get the most out of their weapons ASAP.

[Benour]

5 forma its there so you cant MILK kuva weapons for mastery, since every single kuva weapon you get is "original" you could be gaining truckton of mastery this way (and ppl still are). Also kuva weapons being pretty generous with polarities usually 2-3 formas are enough to max them out aka being able to put all maxed mods on.

[Firetempest]

Its non-issue. Is not like you get less MR per rank. if you get one to 30. It still counts as a complete weapon. Completionism is self inflicted. There will be more than enough items to eventually get to MR30+ in like less than 2 years and you wont even need to max any of these special cases for it.

If you don't want to max Kraken. Don't. There is currently 121,001 xp over what is needed for MR28. the over rank levels of all kuva weapons only account for 13,000 xp.

[Asphyxxia]

15 minutes ago, Benour said:

5 forma its there so you cant MILK kuva weapons for mastery, since every single kuva weapon you get is "original" you could be gaining truckton of mastery this way (and ppl still are). Also kuva weapons being pretty generous with polarities usually 2-3 formas are enough to max them out aka being able to put all maxed mods on.

I'm not sure if it's just poor wording or my failure to understand but each Kuva weapon gives mastery only once. 4k per weapon so 52k mastery, 8k more coming with announced update. Same weapon from a different Lich, be it in name or bonus, won't grant extra mastery.

[Benour]

3 minutes ago, Asphyxxia said:

I'm not sure if it's just poor wording or my failure to understand but each Kuva weapon gives mastery only once. 4k per weapon so 52k mastery, 8k more coming with announced update. Same weapon from a different Lich, be it in name or bonus, won't grant extra mastery.

Really? I though every lich weapon gives mastery, my bad then. As i said i just put enough forma to max them out, im gonna hit mr28 "passively" when they add more stuff in game. Still 5 forma for 4k mastery sounds reasonable to me.

[Skaleek]

75 forma is a paltry sum for an endgame or "veteran" player. That is 75 days or 2 and 1/2 months of building a forma daily. Where does all of my platinum go currently and for the last 5-6 years?

A. newest deluxe skins cosmetic/releases(20~30%)

B. slots (5-10%)

C. Buying the 35p 3 forma bundle (60~80%)

I buy a lot of forma. Forma is endgame in my opinion. Forma actually used to be easier to obtain. T3 survival had full forma drops on rotation B and C at modest rates. People complained. DE scaled it back.

Also we just had plague star. I saw a guy post about farming 300 full forma from the event. I myself got about 80 with a modest amount of farming and being smart with my loadouts.

Edited January 31, 2020 by Skaleek

[Ham_Grenabe]

Honestly, it's a lot of grinding and a chunk of forma, but...what the hell else are you gonna do? 

It's like liches, or Railjack, or...anything. Foolish and often firewalled grind but it's not like there's much else going on in Warframe. Pick your grind and smash your face against it. 

Edited January 31, 2020 by Ham_Grenabe

[Melanholic7]

Sry,but i think other people dont care that for GRINDING MAXIMAL RANK IN GAME which also gives you NOTHING (=nobody NEED it by any means at all) - need alot of grind,lol. Its too hard for you? Dont grind MR 28. You dont need rank 28,it gives nothing and its last rank and hardest thing in game. Ohno, hardest thing in game requires grind..:(

[(XBOX)KayAitch]

2 hours ago, Karasokami said:

There are currently 13 Kuva weapons in the game, and 2 new are confirmed for the next Update which leaves us with 15 Kuva weapons(There will be definetly more in the Future, but we will go with that for now).

Yeah, but you don't have all of them to level at once. I typically build about a forma a day, so each weapon is 5 days build time, but it's also 2-3 game hours to acquire and about the same to level is 5 times.

I could probably do it quicker, but you'd burn out pretty fast that way.

If you're acquiring and levelling these so fast that you catch up with forma that shows crazy determination.

I have 10 of them, working on the rest (but getting a lot of low-roll dupes) but I haven't levelled up half of them yet - I'm not finding forma the limiting factor.

 

[vomder]

A lot of people are missing the point of why Kuva going to level 40 is bad, it's the precedent it sets going forward.

[zuraja]

19 hours ago, Benour said:

Really? I though every lich weapon gives mastery, my bad then. As i said i just put enough forma to max them out, im gonna hit mr28 "passively" when they add more stuff in game. Still 5 forma for 4k mastery sounds reasonable to me.

Mastery is awarded every time you level the weapon up, not in a lump sum once it hits max rank.  So unless things work differently for Paracesis and the kuva weapons (I've never paid close enough attention to my mastery progress to notice if it does), you only get 1k for that 5 forma investment.  Well, that and more capacity than most weapons are capable of using in any sort of vaguely reasonable build.

 

7 hours ago, vomder said:

A lot of people are missing the point of why Kuva going to level 40 is bad, it's the precedent it sets going forward.

And absolutely this.  This mechanic was dubious on Paracesis, but then you at least had a vague lore justification (it's supposed to be some legendary Orokin weapon) and the 60% bonus damage against sentients and not needing to swap to operator to reset their immunities provides a real benefit for taking it all the way to 40 instead of stopping once you can fit your desired build in the thing.  Having it on the kuva weapons just feels like a resource sink that exists purely to create a resource sink.

[waterboytkd]

A nice, simple solution that also synergizes with their new Valence Infusion could be to make it so that every forma (up to 5) increases the max elemental bonus of the kuva weapons by 3%. So with one forma, you get get up to a 63% damage bonus. At all 5 forma, the max bonus is 75%.

As for your current bonus, it could work in one of two ways:

• Your current bonus is increased by 3%. This means weapons already at 60% would just stay at max as you forma them.
• This wouldn't increase the current bonus at all, so you would have to  use Valence Infusion to "level up" the gun, as well.

One is way grindier than the other, but both of them are non-RNG grind.

[Mephane]

4 hours ago, waterboytkd said:

A nice, simple solution that also synergizes with their new Valence Infusion could be to make it so that every forma (up to 5) increases the max elemental bonus of the kuva weapons by 3%. So with one forma, you get get up to a 63% damage bonus. At all 5 forma, the max bonus is 75%.

That does nothing for the Kuva weapons that we just level for mastery. If you are going to actually use one, chances are you would end up putting in 5 formas anyway. But for a weapon you just level for mastery, it doesn't matter if those 5 formas grant a higher elemental damage bonus, it's still 5 formas expended per weapon just to get the full mastery for them.

[DrBorris]

Mountain out of a molehill if you ask me. The only time you "need" that MR is if you are trying to approach approach max rank and the difference is whatever you get from maxing Kava weapons. 

So let's break down how niche this situation is.

1. You need to have every other items in the game already at max rank.
2. The current max rank is within the few MR points where the Kuva weapons make a difference. 

Both of those things need to be fulfilled for  that missing MR to mean anything. And with every few release both of those points are skewed, even of you do fulfill both DE could just release a few weapons and it is no longer a problem.

 

TL;DR. Maxing Kuva weapons is extraordinarily unnecessary, only the most anal completionists have any reason to do it. 

Edited February 2, 2020 by DrBorris