Trying to make any single sense out of revenant lore

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

4 hours ago, (PS4)reidy35 said:

The Teralysts were not sent. It was one Sentient, that Gara made explode. Terry, Gary, and the Ropalolyst are the shattered bits and pieces of big Bob the sentient, who was attacking the Unum to get kuva, so it could regain its strength, and reproduce.

And with the sentient ship, think of the Vomvalysts as bloodcells in massive Sentients, like Bob, and the ship, lets call it... Larry You cut something, bloodcells go everywhere (Vomvalysts on the Plains), you go inside a creature, there's gonna be bloodcells (Vomvalysts on the ship). Larry, and Bob, are/were both massive Sentients. Big sentients, big bloodcells/antibodies. The Vomvalysts defend their host, or what remains of them, like white blood cells.

Literally the only parts of the Eidolons that are visibly missing is their arm. They don’t look like a jumbled mess of parts loosely put together. So the suggestion that they’re all parts from a single giant sentient isn’t real. Also Ropalolyst isn’t classified under the Eidolon subfaction.

Eidolon Vombulysts are part of the sentient faction. That’s all I’m saying. Because some people don’t think the Eidolons are part of the sentient despite the game literally saying they are.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

2 hours ago, Corvid said:

They already did. Stubbornness is not a refutation.

Except they literally didn't. They Just made speculation based off the flawed logic of “Eidolon is Greek for ghost. Ghosts are undead. Vampires are also undead. Ghost are vampires and that’s how Revenant is a vampire”. Ghosts aren’t vampires!

[--PV--Puppet]

5 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Literally the only parts of the Eidolons that are visibly missing is their arm. They don’t look like a jumbled mess of parts loosely put together. So the suggestion that they’re all parts from a single giant sentient isn’t real. Also Ropalolyst isn’t classified under the Eidolon subfaction.

Eidolon Vombulysts are part of the sentient faction. That’s all I’m saying. Because some people don’t think the Eidolons are part of the sentient despite the game literally saying they are.

"Eidolons are simple-minded, spectral fragments of the shattered Sentients that roam the Plains of Eidolon at night." - https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Eidolon first line on wiki.

[Chaemyerelis]

Warframe lore is pretty inconsistent. I wish they took their time to start from the beginning and retweak whatever they need to in order to make it consistent since I love games with deep lore. 

[nslay]

7 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Also Ropalolyst isn’t classified under the Eidolon subfaction.

The Codex may not classify Ropalolyst as Eidolon, but there is/was indeed a Ropalolyst variant at Cetus. We saw it during the Mask of the Revenant quest! And I wager that it was a part of the original sentient (hence another Eidolon). Here's a picture from the Fragment picture (from wiki):

Spoiler

Notice that the head is different than Jupiter's Ropalolyst.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

2 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Orokin design, that is all the evidence needed since we dont know of any other method when it comes to creating OG frames. I mean in the story around Revenant and his time on earth, there is zero indication of anything changing him. All he did was chop down eidolons, sacrifice himself to keep them locked away aswell as harnessing their energy. If he would have been corrupted and changed (no idea where people even get that idea from since it is mentioned in zero places) then the eidolons wouldnt have been locked away for all those years since he wouldnt be there as a counter anchor, instead he would have been the anchor that the eidolons tried to turn him into in order to access the plains.

I'm also not sure what the vampire theme discussion has to do with me pointing out to you that you got the story about the plains, the Unum and the sentients wrong.

edit: Regarding your post above. Valkyr was always a rage based frame. Rage =/= insanity/madness, which is exactly what the corpus drove her to. They didnt implement anything to her, she already had the claws and hysteria. What they did to her was rip the skin from her and place it on Zanuka, then they discarded the rest. They drove the specific Gersemi Valkyr insane, that does not change the tenno blueprint we use to build it.

Nowhere in his backstory does it specify that the Orokin designed him to be some vampire representation. All he is literally referred to as is “Warden”, not “batty” not “suckles”, “Warden”. 
Your claim that there is no indication of anything changing him when he was on earth is straight up a f***ing lie. Do I need to bring back the multiple quotes from the game that say he is infused with the powers of the Eidolon? Because it appears you have the memory retention of a goldfish.

The Eidolons are literally roaming the plains when we the players show up. Because there’s nobody there to stop them.

Because you have yet to literally provide any evidence whatsoever that supports Revenant having vampire powers. All you keep is repeating is “Maybe that’s how the Orokin made him” when his original design doesn’t matter anymore because he was altered by the Eidolons. And that’s literally the only piece of lore we know about him. And I don’t know about you. But giving a Warframe powers that are a complete disconnect from the frames backstory doesn’t make any sense.

Again. You’re only speculating that Valkyr was always angry before Alad V got ahold of her. But it’s more than obvious through reading her lore that it was the experiments driving her mad that made her into a berserker regardless if whether or not she had her claw ability. The point still stands that a faction that wasn’t the Orokin were capable of altering a frame. And we now use that altered version

 

[(XBOX)Mechanized Mind]

17 minutes ago, nslay said:

The Codex may not classify Ropalolyst as Eidolon, but there is/was indeed a Ropalolyst variant at Cetus. We saw it during the Mask of the Revenant quest! And I wager that it was a part of the original sentient (hence another Eidolon). Here's a picture from the Fragment picture (from wiki):

  Hide contents

Notice that the head is different than Jupiter's Ropalolyst.

Well, they were originally planned to be a new type of Eidolon, hence why the one in the pic above has some of the Unum tower's flesh attached to it's missing head similar to the bipedal variants using trees and rocks to replace missing limbs. 

 

That being said, these original ideas were scrapped and the boss moved to Jupiter so I'm not sure how legit this evidence is anymore.  The pic above and the 3D model that appears during the Revilement quest were both added into the game way before the actual boss was added, so eh idk. 

 

Personally I think it's more of a standard heavy unit along the lines of what the Battalyst and Conculysts are.

Edited February 7, 2020 by (XB1)Mechanized Mind

[nslay]

1 minute ago, (XB1)Mechanized Mind said:

Well, they were originally planned to be a new type of Eidolon, hence why the one in the pic above has some of the Unum tower's flesh attached to it's missing head similar to the bipedal variants using trees and rocks to replace missing limbs. 

 

That being said, these original ideas were scrapped and the boss moved to Jupiter so I'm not sure how legit this evidence is anymore.  The pic above and the 3D model that appears during the Revilement quest were both added into the game way before the actual boss shows up, so eh idk. 

 

Personally I think it's more of a standard heavy unit along the lines of what the Battalyst and Conculysts are.

The fragment (in the live game in your codex) for that picture of Ropalolyst (one of two different Ropalolysts) does say the following:

Spoiler

A fragment of the ancient Sentient that once terrorized these plains.

 

[(XBOX)Mechanized Mind]

3 minutes ago, nslay said:

The fragment (in the live game in your codex) for that picture of Ropalolyst (one of two different Ropalolysts) does say the following:

  Hide contents

A fragment of the ancient Sentient that once terrorized these plains.

 

I suppose I could argue that it's an outdated teaser for an upcoming boss, but that isn't interesting.

I still believe they are more standard units than anything.  The Earth sentient was probably capable of creating them as Hunhow can create Battalyst and Conculysts and Natah her Mimics.  All the larger scale sentients seem to be able to create smaller splinter variants of themselves so its possible that there were Ropalolysts helping the Earth sentient take the Unum. 

I'd like to think the codex is referring to one specific Ropalolyst rather than all of them.  Especially considering they show up in large numbers in The New War trailer.

[nslay]

1 minute ago, (XB1)Mechanized Mind said:

I suppose I could argue that it's an outdated teaser for an upcoming boss, but that isn't interesting.

I still believe they are more standard units than anything.  The Earth sentient was probably capable of creating them as Hunhow can create Battalyst and Conculysts and Natah her Mimics.  All the larger scale sentients seem to be able to create smaller splinter variants of themselves so its possible that there were Ropalolysts helping the Earth sentient take the Unum. 

I'd like to think the codex is referring to one specific Ropalolyst rather than all of them.  Especially considering they show up in large numbers in The New War trailer.

That sounds plausible!

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

42 minutes ago, --PV--Puppet said:

"Eidolons are simple-minded, spectral fragments of the shattered Sentients that roam the Plains of Eidolon at night." - https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Eidolon first line on wiki.

Yeah, they themselves are broken. But they’re not all these separate pieces of a single giant super sentient. There is a Ropalolyst inside that sentient dimension that’s seeping into the plains. But it’s not the same Ropa as the one flying around Jupiter. If the Eidolons were actually fragments of a giant sentient then they would all be weird and deformed and look visually distinct from each other. But Terry, Garry, and Harry all look very identical outside of a few extra synovia and the thing they used to replace their missing arm. If the Eidolon Ropalolyst was a culmination of fragments of a giant sentient then there wouldn’t be an identical one flying around Jupiter.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

46 minutes ago, Chaemyerelis said:

Warframe lore is pretty inconsistent. I wish they took their time to start from the beginning and retweak whatever they need to in order to make it consistent since I love games with deep lore. 

There’s a reason is vague af in places.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

43 minutes ago, nslay said:

The Codex may not classify Ropalolyst as Eidolon, but there is/was indeed a Ropalolyst variant at Cetus. We saw it during the Mask of the Revenant quest! And I wager that it was a part of the original sentient (hence another Eidolon). Here's a picture from the Fragment picture (from wiki):

  Reveal hidden contents

Notice that the head is different than Jupiter's Ropalolyst.

Just acknowledged this. There is an Eidolon Ropa, but there’s also the Jupiter Ropa that looks extremely identical to it. So if the Eidolons were just randomly assorted parts of a giant Eidolon then there wouldn’t be Sentients outside of Earth that are identical to the Eidolons.

[--PV--Puppet]

11 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Just acknowledged this. There is an Eidolon Ropa, but there’s also the Jupiter Ropa that looks extremely identical to it. So if the Eidolons were just randomly assorted parts of a giant Eidolon then there wouldn’t be Sentients outside of Earth that are identical to the Eidolons.

Sentients are STILL machines. 

 

21 minutes ago, (XB1)Mechanized Mind said:

I suppose I could argue that it's an outdated teaser for an upcoming boss, but that isn't interesting.

I still believe they are more standard units than anything.  The Earth sentient was probably capable of creating them as Hunhow can create Battalyst and Conculysts and Natah her Mimics.  All the larger scale sentients seem to be able to create smaller splinter variants of themselves so its possible that there were Ropalolysts helping the Earth sentient take the Unum. 

I'd like to think the codex is referring to one specific Ropalolyst rather than all of them.  Especially considering they show up in large numbers in The New War trailer.

This is a good theory. Ropalolysts were SEEN in a sentient ship, in the trailers. They looked identical.

Edited February 7, 2020 by --PV--Puppet

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

3 minutes ago, --PV--Puppet said:

Sentients are STILL machines. 

 

But these guys are claiming that the Eidolons are fragments of 1 single super giant mega sentient that was destroyed by Gara and are now just attaching themselves together. If that was the case the Teralyst wouldn’t look like a nearly full intact sentient that’s just missing its arm. It would be all deformed and mismatched, but it’s not. Outside of its arms and minor details it’s nearly perfectly symmetrical. A robot assembled from random parts of a bigger robot wouldn’t be symmetrical.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

4 hours ago, nslay said:

Gears, I've noted it before, but Vomvalysts are really bad... really really bad. When I first got Mote back in those early days, I used to hammer the Vomvalysts from their back and they didn't even turn around. They are seriously stupid enemies. A Thrall Heavy Gunner or Nox is better than any number of Vomvalysts. The other sentients are also better than Vomvalysts. Vomvalysts are bottom-of-the-barrel sentient enemies. They suck.

If you really want Revenant to command Eidolons, it really should be a mini version of a Teralyst. Anything less just won't cut it. But now you've removed Revenant's really cool ability to do scalable damage... for pets which are currently universally stupid in AI (Vomvalysts are especially stupid)!

Inb4 other players killing Thralls complaint ... Ah, but you won't need those Vomvalysts (god forbid) or mini Teralyst if enemies are that easy either. Just kill the enemies. Don't need no stinking Sentient pets for that.

On that note, you should not want Revenant to have pet abilities (like summoning Vomvalysts) because pets are CC and CC is worthless (Gears et. al. 2019).

Then make the summonable Vombys not terrible. I’m not saying just give Revenant the ability to summon an enemy and that’s it. Give it actual practicality and utility. Like regenerating Revenants Eidolon Shield, or reviving downed squadmates like they revive the Teralyst.

As funny as it would be to command around a Teralyst articula, no. Revenant summoning Vombulysts makes more sense than putting out a pint sized Teralyst. And it makes far more sense than him somehow getting the ability to control enemies minds and make them shoot their friends. Because Eidolons don’t do that.

Hmmmmm drop a cheap and worthless gimmick for an ability with practical uses and actual benefits to yourself and squadmates. I wonder what could possible be chosen by me.

Again, never said the Vombulysts would be used for just killing enemies. They also wouldn’t be a pet like Venari. They would be summonable minions that can be commanded or expended to do various different utilities and synergies. You know. Instead of just being a worthless peon that’s gonna get killed by a team mate before you can ever Reave it.

You’re literally just assuming the worst possible version of my idea and claiming that that’s my actual idea. When it’s not.

Edited February 7, 2020 by (XB1)GearsMatrix301

[Sitchrea]

On 2020-02-05 at 3:10 AM, (XB1)Erudite Prime said:

Why are you pulling real-life definitions for a video game which names things completely randomly half the time?

Because DE doesn't name things randomly.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

17 minutes ago, Sitchrea said:

Because DE doesn't name things randomly.

But the names real life definitions almost never have a overwhelming say in what the in game character or item is.

Gauss doesn’t have anything to do with magnetic induction or toilet seats. His whole theme is kinetic energy. He moves fast and Gauss rifles shoot things super fast.

Excalibur isn’t a literal broadsword. He’s a swordsman.

Frost isn’t a thin layer of ice on your windshield. He’s an ice themed Warframe.

Ember isn’t a piece of burning wood. She’s a fire themed Warframe.

Rhino isn’t an actual Rhinoceros.

Mesa isn’t a large flatland. She’s a gunslinger Warframe.

Pandero isn’t a drum. It’s a pistol.

War isn’t 2 opposing factions fighting each other. It’s a big sword.

Eidolons aren’t literal ghosts. They’re broken Sentients.

Edited February 7, 2020 by (XB1)GearsMatrix301

[nslay]

36 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Then make the summonable Vombys not terrible. I’m not saying just give Revenant the ability to summon an enemy and that’s it. Give it actual practicality and utility. Like regenerating Revenants Eidolon Shield, or reviving downed squadmates like they revive the Teralyst.

As funny as it would be to command around a Teralyst articula, no. Revenant summoning Vombulysts makes more sense than putting out a pint sized Teralyst. And it makes far more sense than him somehow getting the ability to control enemies minds and make them shoot their friends. Because Eidolons don’t do that.

Hmmmmm drop a cheap and worthless gimmick for an ability with practical uses and actual benefits to yourself and squadmates. I wonder what could possible be chosen by me.

Again, never said the Vombulysts would be used for just killing enemies. They also wouldn’t be a pet like Venari. They would be summonable minions that can be commanded or expended to do various different utilities and synergies. You know. Instead of just being a worthless peon that’s gonna get killed by a team mate before you can ever Reave it.

You’re literally just assuming the worst possible version of my idea and claiming that that’s my actual idea. When it’s not.

A Tomb Guardian/Rumbler-sized (the larger one) Teralyst would probably fit in most maps, no? Still too small?

[Sitchrea]

17 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

-snip-

...Because they're allegories.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

10 minutes ago, Sitchrea said:

...Because they're allegories.

Exactly. But people like Ervin are taking every single name as literally as possible (Literally asked how Banshee could have an ability called Silence levels of literal). Whether they’re deliberately doing it to try and funnel the argument into a very restricted path that they can win through very very flawed logic, or they’re just not too bright is beyond me.

Edited February 7, 2020 by (XB1)GearsMatrix301

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

12 minutes ago, nslay said:

A Tomb Guardian/Rumbler-sized (the larger one) Teralyst would probably fit in most maps, no? Still too small?

There are no small Teralysts.

[SneakyErvin]

2 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Nowhere in his backstory does it specify that the Orokin designed him to be some vampire representation. All he is literally referred to as is “Warden”, not “batty” not “suckles”, “Warden”. 
Your claim that there is no indication of anything changing him when he was on earth is straight up a f***ing lie. Do I need to bring back the multiple quotes from the game that say he is infused with the powers of the Eidolon? Because it appears you have the memory retention of a goldfish.

The Eidolons are literally roaming the plains when we the players show up. Because there’s nobody there to stop them.

Because you have yet to literally provide any evidence whatsoever that supports Revenant having vampire powers. All you keep is repeating is “Maybe that’s how the Orokin made him” when his original design doesn’t matter anymore because he was altered by the Eidolons. And that’s literally the only piece of lore we know about him. And I don’t know about you. But giving a Warframe powers that are a complete disconnect from the frames backstory doesn’t make any sense.

Again. You’re only speculating that Valkyr was always angry before Alad V got ahold of her. But it’s more than obvious through reading her lore that it was the experiments driving her mad that made her into a berserker regardless if whether or not she had her claw ability. The point still stands that a faction that wasn’t the Orokin were capable of altering a frame. And we now use that altered version

 

You really dont get what infused and harness means. You also dont get it that eidolons are just pieces of a dead sentient. There is nothing special with their energy, it is just energy. There is no magic to the sentients nor the eidolons, they are just highly advanced machines. There is nothing there to corrupt anything, it is just something that made them tick again. It has also only happened on earth and the difference is that the sentient got killed by a high tech Unum bomb.

The eidolons are roaming the plains because the grineer have been digging around where they shouldnt. That is a very recent event in the plains lore that has happened shortly before we, the tenno, arrive. 

You keep repeating how he was altered, yet there is no lore to cover it. You probably keep looking at the fanmade entry that claims the eidolons tried to use him to reform. That is nowhere in the lore. That is a made up interpretation by someone with horrible english skills or lack of reading comprehension. Nakak and the tenno are the only two real sources for info. All they say is that he was lured to be an anchor for the eidolons to enter the plains. As to the vampire theme, it is in his Orokin given name which dates back to the original concept of vampires. His designation is revenant, given to the frame by the Orokin, that name is enough to logically base his vampiric abilities in the Orokin original design. The blueprint which we use pre-dates the fall on the plains, the blueprint used holds the name Revenant, so he was named that when he arrived on earth.

We really dont use an altered version of Valkyr, we use a basic tenno version created through an old tenno blueprint. We didnt rebuild the Gersemi, we just built a valkyr. Gersemi got ripped apart and destroyed, then pieces were augmented into the zanuka. We just had to seek out the blueprints on Jupiter since they were in the hands of the corpus. Alad V didnt torture the blueprints, he tortured the Gersemi valkyr in order to figure out if he could create frames on his own. We dont repair old frames, we build them all based on old tenno or orokin blueprints with new materials. The exception to this would be Umbra. And the exception where personality has stayed as part of the blueprint would be Mirage, who seems to have her original "host" mentality throughout all of her models. Maybe because she was one of the original few that didnt rebel against the Orokin nor got insane by getting turned into a frame. 

[nslay]

3 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

There are no small Teralysts.

There are no smart Vomvalysts either.

[SneakyErvin]

7 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Exactly. But people like Ervin are taking every single name as literally as possible (Literally asked how Banshee could have an ability called Silence levels of literal). Whether they’re deliberately doing it to try and funnel the argument into a very restricted path that they can win through very very flawed logic, or they’re just not too bright is beyond me.

No I dont. I asked you straight up how you can be obsessed with Rev needing to have 4 skills exactly themed to a single thing when there are several frames that are nothing but a name with only half a kit fitting some theme.

Rev follows the theme both in kit and name. So he should really be a win-win for the game. But then again, you keep ignoring the fact that vampires are older than the name vampire. So they dont need to sparkle, drink blood, have anything to do with bats or top hats nor impale enemies on sticks. Revs kit is very true to the ancient, plus he has some puns in there such as Mesmer Skin, which I'd honestly wouldnt be surprised is a hint to sparkly Twilight vampires. Just as his #4 is just a massive nod to the death theme, both in historical culture aswell as modern pop culture.