Trying to make any single sense out of revenant lore

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

● The lore implies that a sentient hypnotized the warframe known as "the warden" and consumed him to try to reform itself 

● Revenant was referred to as the warden...which means he was probably an excalibur variant 

● Sentients are weird...it seem like they can do whatever the writers want them to do to help move the lore 

But let's generalize it and say they can adapt to anything and any situation

Which means sentients are capable of adapting to their own deaths and manifest as spirits or lesser version of themselves...eidolons

They can also hypnotize other beings

● The warden, consumed by sentient energy became a returning spirit...a revenant Capable of doing whatever a sentient can 

 

Enthral: taking from the one that made him...revenant is capable of hypnotizing and deceive people very frequent in dracula lore

Mesmer skin: 2 tasks one ability...this one also hypnotizes people with the added power of having a sentient armor that takes any hit 

Reave: like a wandering vomvalyst...revenant is able to adapt to his own death and turn into a cloud of mist a spirit that can survive by leeching health and shields from the enemy...the way the sentients consume their victims to reform themselves 

Danse macabre: do i really need to explain? It's a an ability straight from the sentients we fight frequently and from one of the eidolons 

So in conclusion, we take from this that sentients are beings that resembles a vampiric spirit...

Someone that cheats deaths and lives to consume on others 

I think i got this right

[0_The_F00l]

Eidolons specifically are undead or post death creatures

Sentients are much more varied. 

[(XBOX)Erudite Prime]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Hopper_Orouk said:

Revenant was referred to as the warden...which means he was probably an excalibur variant 

Stopped reading here to ask: what?
 

1 hour ago, 0_The_F00l said:

Eidolons specifically are undead or post death creatures

No, Eidolons are just the fragments of a Sentient whose consciousness wasn't spread in each of its components. As for the wispy-ghosty nature of Eidolons, that's just general spookiness. They're machines; they can't be undead. Quantum superpositions and stuff.

[TARINunit9]

Inb4 Gears come in to complain about how much he hates vampires

1 hour ago, (PS4)Hopper_Orouk said:

● Revenant was referred to as the warden...which means he was probably an excalibur variant 

Not sure where you got this from. He could have been a Vauban (Bastille) for all we know

1 hour ago, (PS4)Hopper_Orouk said:

So in conclusion, we take from this that sentients are beings that resembles a vampiric spirit...

Someone that cheats deaths and lives to consume on others 

I think i got this right

Pretty much. Lemme tell you the significance behind all the names:

Eidolon is a Greek word that (roughly) means "ghostly form". They're haunting phantoms, evil spirits. Basically demons

Revenant is a European folklore monster. Imagine a zombie, but lucid, and hellbent on revenge. In medieval European folklore, the undead were usually products of the devil -- this is even the source of the original Dracula's powers. Revenants, vampires, ghouls, etc. were all very similar, corpses haunted by demons. And Sentients are very demonic. Erra, for example, is named after Irra, the Akkadian god of plagues and death.

(inb4 someone complains that they're not canonically demonic. They're still subtextually demonic. Look at the Sentient Anomaly and tell me with a straight face that doesn't look hellish)

For more subtext, contrast Revenant with Garuda, a much more "modern" vampire. Garuda is a blood-fueled superhuman predator, while Revenant is a magic-wielding undead warlock

Edited February 5, 2020 by TARINunit9

[0_The_F00l]

13 minutes ago, (XB1)Erudite Prime said:

No, Eidolons are just the fragments of a Sentient whose consciousness wasn't spread in each of its components. As for the wispy-ghosty nature of Eidolons, that's just general spookiness. They're machines; they can't be undead. Quantum superpositions and stuff.

Lets look at some definitions :

Living things : Things which can grow, move, breathe and reproduce are called living things. 

Eidolons : ancient Greek - spirit image of a living or dead person. 

Sentient : Able to perceive or feel things. 

Sentients may be artificial but by definition they are living things. There may be some doubts on the breathing part specifically to air breathing, but in essence means being able to create / burn nutrients into energy. 

We could be going into philosophy if we want to, but for the current purpose within the nature of warframe, Sentients are alive and they can then be dead and then they can be undead. 

Quantum superposition does not change this. 

[(XBOX)Erudite Prime]

5 minutes ago, 0_The_F00l said:

snip

Why are you pulling real-life definitions for a video game which names things completely randomly half the time?

[TARINunit9]

2 minutes ago, (XB1)Erudite Prime said:

which names things completely randomly half the time?

They really don't. Even the new Parazon daggers, which sounds like a made-up word, are named after Roman ceremonial knives

3 minutes ago, (XB1)Erudite Prime said:

Why are you pulling real-life definitions

It's called subtext and metaphors. Which honestly don't get enough credit these days, I see too many people saying "oh it's superfluous, just put better text in the game itself." But that's rather narrow-minded. For example I don't think RoboCop would have been quite as good or interesting without the Jesus subtext

[Corvid]

This is also apparently forgetting that IIRC the devs have outright stated that the Eidolons are the Sentient equivalent of undead. The Revenant quest even mentions an "Underworld" of sorts.

[DarthIronclad]

Inb4 gears complaining about rev not being eidolon themed 

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

Its idiotic to make a frame based off a faction that shoots lasers into a vampire. Just because he’s undead doesn’t mean he should automatically be a vampire. There’s like 200 different undead creatures in all of fiction. And most importantly SENTIENTS ARE NOT VAMPIRES!

Eidolons can’t Mind Control. They’ve never shown the ability to be able to do that. They also can’t put you to sleep or drain your health.

“Eidolon” is just a name to vague represent their current physical state and is not meant to be taken 100% literally.

Calling Mesmer Skin the equivalent of damage adaptation is a joke. Those are literally 2 very different mechanics.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

12 minutes ago, DarthIronclad said:

Inb4 gears complaining about rev not being eidolon themed 

You say that like it’s a bad thing.

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

57 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Its idiotic to make a frame based off a faction that shoots lasers into a vampire. Just because he’s undead doesn’t mean he should automatically be a vampire. There’s like 200 different undead creatures in all of fiction. And most importantly SENTIENTS ARE NOT VAMPIRES!

Eidolons can’t Mind Control. They’ve never shown the ability to be able to do that. They also can’t put you to sleep or drain your health.

“Eidolon” is just a name to vague represent their current physical state and is not meant to be taken 100% literally.

Calling Mesmer Skin the equivalent of damage adaptation is a joke. Those are literally 2 very different mechanics.

You want us to not take the word eidolon literally 

But you also want to take the differences between mesmer skin and adaptation as common fact and a literal impossibility to be the same thing 

I think your hate towards the frame's kit is clouding your understanding of what a sentient is 

Sentients can mind control...it's shown in the revenant lore

And the revenant lore is canon because it's in game whether you like it or not

Vampires were depicted differently in every adaptation 

You can consider garuda as the modern version of vampires 

But revenant is actually pretty accurate to vlad or dracula

[JackHargreav]

I never thought hard about Revs story.

Rev was keeping the remains of a sentient at bay and one day he got sucked in by said sentient and It's energy corrupted the frame, and we got Revenant.

His powers don't really have to match up with the powers of actual sentient imo. Probably Revenants powers got changed by the corruption to extent and as a warden he might had similiar abilities.

Hopefully the Leverian will explain a bit more about him. I'm honestly more confused about Valkyr's lore than Rev's lore.

[0_The_F00l]

2 hours ago, (XB1)Erudite Prime said:

Why are you pulling real-life definitions for a video game which names things completely randomly half the time?

What's the problem if I am? 

If "it's fiction brah names don't matter" is the argument, then any and all references are irrelevant and the whole discussion need not be interacted with, yet you have. 

I was also highlighting specific points in the earlier comment I had quoted as to why undead theme would still be applicable to Sentients. 

[(PSN)robotwars7]

this is a DE problem. back in the day *puts down old man walking stick to tell a story* when a new frame was released, you got a quest for them that explained who they were, what they did, and how they died: Chroma, Limbo, Mirage and Mesa are excellent examples: Chroma wandered the derelicts, Limbo blew himself up by accident, Mirage got killed and Mesa got experimented on by Mutalist Alad V.

over the last year or so however, the quests have become a bit more spotty, and then since Baruuk, Hildryn, Gauss and Grendel, we haven't had any quests for them whatsoever. DE have tried to rectify this by adding the Leverian, but now they have the monumental task of not only adding a Leverian Entry- and thus writing extensive Lore - for every new frame, they also have to go back and do it for all the older frames, as they have with Ivara, and IIRC Vauban and Ember are next. then there's the issue of the Chinese frames, Wukong and Nezha, who basically appear out of nowhere? what Lore can they write about those?

the Leverian is getting good though: I especially liked:

Spoiler

Ivara and the Myrmidon (quite gripping!) and the amusing Orokin with 12 levitating digestive sacs in Grendel's story.

 

[SneakyErvin]

6 hours ago, (PS4)Hopper_Orouk said:

● The lore implies that a sentient hypnotized the warframe known as "the warden" and consumed him to try to reform itself 

● Revenant was referred to as the warden...which means he was probably an excalibur variant 

● Sentients are weird...it seem like they can do whatever the writers want them to do to help move the lore 

But let's generalize it and say they can adapt to anything and any situation

Which means sentients are capable of adapting to their own deaths and manifest as spirits or lesser version of themselves...eidolons

They can also hypnotize other beings

● The warden, consumed by sentient energy became a returning spirit...a revenant Capable of doing whatever a sentient can 

 

Enthral: taking from the one that made him...revenant is capable of hypnotizing and deceive people very frequent in dracula lore

Mesmer skin: 2 tasks one ability...this one also hypnotizes people with the added power of having a sentient armor that takes any hit 

Reave: like a wandering vomvalyst...revenant is able to adapt to his own death and turn into a cloud of mist a spirit that can survive by leeching health and shields from the enemy...the way the sentients consume their victims to reform themselves 

Danse macabre: do i really need to explain? It's a an ability straight from the sentients we fight frequently and from one of the eidolons 

So in conclusion, we take from this that sentients are beings that resembles a vampiric spirit...

Someone that cheats deaths and lives to consume on others 

I think i got this right

The lore actually doesnt imply that if you read what Nakak and the tenno says aswell as the specific fragment entries. Players that have modified the wiki implies that, but is nowhere to be found int he actual lore of the game. The eidolons try to use him as an anchor to the plains, which Rev tries to counter, but instead gives up and sacrifices himself, saving the plains, cetus and the unum. That security stays until the grineer start digging around on the plain, which also makes us show up. So it becomes out job to combat the resurfacing eidolons aswell as stopping the Rev specter.

Also remember it was the population of cetus and the unum that refered to him as the warden, not the Orokin themselves. So Revenant was Revenant as per design by the Orokin.

While sentients can do alot, eidolons arent sentients like usual sentients, they are zombies or well simply put eidolons. Each of them are some part of the sentient that Gara blew up on the plains. The only programming they have is the search to find themselves to be made whole again, much like a zombie with brain munchies, basic behavior. And when did sentients hypnotize anything? Did I miss a lyst somewhere? Hypnolyst? Also Revenant wasnt consumed by sentient energy, he was bathed in it. As the lore says, he harness the sentient energy. So he was more or less repowered by it instead of needing void energy when he resurfaced as a specter. We dont know how long he battled the eidolons before his sacrifice, we dont know how long he went without an operator either. He may have used eidolon energy prior to his sacrifice if he was already then in some automated specter state. I do however think he had a tenno at the sticks until he made the final sacrifice.

Eidolons are simply eidolons, it is in their name what they are, it should not be confused and made synonymous with sentient. We also dont know if it is a natural thing for the bigger sentients to go "undead" or if it is just a mixture of how and where the sentient died i.e at the hands of a massive bomb delivered by Gara (and made by the unum iirc) on earth.

One thing people also seem to miss is that a thing like the ropalolyst on jupiter isnt an eidolon. It was ones planned to be an eidolon on earth but it got retconned pre-release to be something directly tied to Natah. It is just a normal lyst, a living sentient, a guard dog or an enforcer or something.

[Benour]

Wait what there is LORE in this game? 

Sry was bussy killing my 5,467,198th mob, i might not notice....  😹

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

2 hours ago, (PS4)Hopper_Orouk said:

You want us to not take the word eidolon literally 

But you also want to take the differences between mesmer skin and adaptation as common fact and a literal impossibility to be the same thing 

I think your hate towards the frame's kit is clouding your understanding of what a sentient is 

Sentients can mind control...it's shown in the revenant lore

And the revenant lore is canon because it's in game whether you like it or not

Vampires were depicted differently in every adaptation 

You can consider garuda as the modern version of vampires 

But revenant is actually pretty accurate to vlad or dracula

Eidolon is like Latin for ghost or something. Some people have been trying to use that as an argument for Revenant to not be even slightly Sentient themed. Which is dumb because Warframe has a long history of using names that only slightly correlate with the frame or enemy, and not to directly dictate what they should be.

Being corrupted by their energy =\= being mind controlled. Has a Teralyst ever taken control of your Warframe and made you attack your team mates? No? Then Revenant currently has more in common with Mutalist Alad V.

Yeah, Revenant lore is canon. And it also doesn’t elude to anything remotely vampire related or anything else that would justify his first 3 abilities being vampire themed.

A vampire has never been depicted as a giant hulking behemoth that shoots lasers. Because nothing about that even remotely connects to what vampires do.

Garudas technically not a vampire.

I don’t care what iteration of vampire Revenants 1-3 were based off of. They don’t belong on an EIDOLON THEMED WARFRAME!

Edited February 5, 2020 by (XB1)GearsMatrix301

[Corvid]

3 hours ago, (PS4)Hopper_Orouk said:

Sentients can mind control...it's shown in the revenant lore

Hell, their ability to subvert their enemies and turn their own weapons against them was one of the first things we ever learned about them (in fact, it was one of the first pieces of lore in the game period), though admittedly that was more "Hey, you know that advanced tech you were going to use? Yoink!" than mind control.

[TARINunit9]

5 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Garudas technically not a vampire.

Yes she is. She feeds on blood, she has a mirror-themed power, she's a vampire. Just because she's named after Vishnu's steed doesn't mean she's not a blood-sucking predator

5 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

I don’t care what iteration of vampire Revenants 1-3 were based off of. They don’t belong on an EIDOLON THEMED WARFRAME!

So over the past couple days I've started to ask myself "what does this guy really want?" What do you expect from a "base all his powers on the Eidolon bosses, and ONLY the Eidolon bosses!"? You wanna go on a rampage at two miles an hour? You wanna have a gun that takes three business days to shoot a target behind you? You want to have a crappy passive where you deal magnetic damage to enemies when you get downed?

I honestly do not blame Rebecca for saying "screw it. Instead of a literal Eidolon, it's a Frame corrupted by Eidolons but with standard Warframe powers. Instead of a literal demon, we have a human corrupted by demons. That's a vampire"

I mean Danse Macabre isn't even based on the Gantulyst, it's based on Battalysts

[Aadi880]

10 hours ago, 0_The_F00l said:

Sentients may be artificial but by definition they are living things. There may be some doubts on the breathing part specifically to air breathing, but in essence means being able to create / burn nutrients into energy. 

One think to note.

 The game implies that sentients is unable to reproduce.

Reproduction is a necessity in order for an object to be classified as "living". This is the exact reason why the great sentient attacked the Unum tower, as the power it sensed there can help its kind to reproduce.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

59 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

Yes she is. She feeds on blood, she has a mirror-themed power, she's a vampire. Just because she's named after Vishnu's steed doesn't mean she's not a blood-sucking predator

So over the past couple days I've started to ask myself "what does this guy really want?" What do you expect from a "base all his powers on the Eidolon bosses, and ONLY the Eidolon bosses!"? You wanna go on a rampage at two miles an hour? You wanna have a gun that takes three business days to shoot a target behind you? You want to have a crappy passive where you deal magnetic damage to enemies when you get downed?

I honestly do not blame Rebecca for saying "screw it. Instead of a literal Eidolon, it's a Frame corrupted by Eidolons but with standard Warframe powers. Instead of a literal demon, we have a human corrupted by demons. That's a vampire"

I mean Danse Macabre isn't even based on the Gantulyst, it's based on Battalysts

She’s a blood mage.

Simple Revenant rework

1. Summon vombulysts to help you in battle and provide a variety of utility uses to yourself and squadmates.

2. Charge up a shield like the Eidolons that has its own innate DR as well as having adaptation.

3. Replace Reave with literally anything else that the Sentients do.

4. Danse Macabre can stay. Eidolons shoot lasers and it has an offensive version of the sentient damage adaptation.

Passive: literally anything that’s not what it is right now.

DE can add in the missing parts and think up all the synergies. It’s not that hard when you have someone that isn’t creatively inept making a Warframe.

[TARINunit9]

19 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Passive: literally anything that’s not what it is right now.

>Additionally, when his Shield depletes, Revenant emits a radial blast that knocks down nearby enemies.

So you want the most Eidolon-based thing in his kit to go away?

[Troposphere6]

26 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

3. Replace Reave with literally anything else that the Sentients do.

Vomvalyst do this when you break there physical bodies. 

[Madway7]

Don't read into Revenant's quest and don't try to use it to justify his abilities, that's just something I tell people to do, but they do it anyways.

The quest was cobbled together in about a week.

Originally they didn't plan to release him with a quest (red flag), the devstream after that they said that they decided to release him with a "mini quest". A week after that the update came out. Keep in mind this was also during the time when DE was mostly focused on Fortuna and the week after the update was released a good chunk of employees went on vacation.