Kuva Nukor - Magnetic or Impact?

[Educated_Beast]

I know heat has awesome potential for damage, but I want that extra status proc.  I'll be running viral, radiation, heat, and the selected element.  I'm not sure what is more useful, impact or magnetic.  Both are really only useful versus shields, which can be bypassed anyway with toxin or slash, shields are really not an issue.  

I guess it comes down to the more useful proc, which seems to be impact.  

Thoughts?

Edited February 24, 2020 by Educated_Beast

[Pizzarugi]

If all you care about are procs, impact is the better of the two since it staggers enemies. A staggered enemy can't fight, and an enemy who can't fight aren't a threat.

[taiiat]

uhhhhh

neither of those choices are ideal, but if you had to pick one of the two, Magnetic. adding IPS to an innate Elemental Weapon is generally just nerfing yourself.
if you were running exclusively non-stacking Status Effects then it wouldn't matter, but if you literally ever use a stacking Status Effect on the Weapon, you don't want the Impact to reduce your Status Application by more than a factor of three. 
Nukor doesn't have low Status by any means, but if you had more than 3 times less Status like that, you'd be giving yourself a Status application rate of somewhere close to Gorgon Wraith or Soma Prime.

[DeckChairVonBananaCamel]

The heat proc panics your enemies, so impact's stagger will be pretty much useless.

That all being said, staggering your opponent whilst using the kuva nukor is a bad idea in general because it makes it harder to reliably get headshots (their arms tend to move up in the way of their face), and having such a high critical damage makes headshots very tasty.

Another thing to take into account is that all of the elements listed there (except for heat) dont stack in any way, which is kinda limiting the benefit of a high-rof status weapon.

I'm going to assume you want the max number of status types for the purposes of condition overload? Just want to remind you that condition overload now caps at 3 status procs.

Personally i spawn all of my kuva weapons with toxin as it allows me to have the three following setups:

• Grineer: Corrosive + Heat
• Corpus: Magnetic + Toxin
• Infested: Viral + whatever i want

[OvisCaedo]

21 minutes ago, DeckChairVonBananaCamel said:

I'm going to assume you want the max number of status types for the purposes of condition overload? Just want to remind you that condition overload now caps at 3 status procs.

It does not; that was listed in a preview build, but DE changed their mind before the actual release. There's no cap on the number of status procs, it just now has regular base damage scaling instead of an exponential multiplier per proc. Though this DOES still mean that there is a lot less meaningful benefit to trying to stack as many status procs as possible, since the more procs you have the less relative benefit you get from each extra one.

So yeah, I'd... really not recommend magnetic or impact for this. They're both pretty bad damage types, impact especially will rob a lot of elemental status procs because of how much priority physical damage gets in status weighting, and there's not much point any more in stacking as many status as possible for Condition Overload.

so i guess i'd personally recommend just going with whatever element will actually be most useful for the weapon's own performance with your planned setup. Maybe heat since the DoT from those can stack, I guess? Iunno.

Edited February 24, 2020 by OvisCaedo

[Educated_Beast]

OK, 

Thanks for inputs, I am going magnetic.  I have a corrosive, radiation, heat already (heat as element) and it is awesome.  Wanted to play around with something different.  Condition overload, enemies with resistances, etc. Just for fun.  

[taiiat]

29 minutes ago, OvisCaedo said:

Though this DOES still mean that there is a lot less meaningful benefit to trying to stack as many status procs as possible, since the more procs you have the less relative benefit you get from each extra one.

and there's not much point any more in stacking as many status as possible for Condition Overload.

as many as possible no, but 5 Status Effects is still very desirable. 6 or 7 is okay, and from there is whether it starts to get really shallow.

[(PSN)l-p4p-I]

hace 4 horas, Educated_Beast dijo:

OK, 

Thanks for inputs, I am going magnetic.  I have a corrosive, radiation, heat already (heat as element) and it is awesome.  Wanted to play around with something different.  Condition overload, enemies with resistances, etc. Just for fun.  

I run my nukor with cold bonus, so i use 60/60 shock & toxin mods for 100% sc, and primed heat mod to add explosive element. I get corrosive, radiation, plus explosion for some cc and i feel it does pretty good.

[ThorienKELL]

Wat? Magnetic? Impact? Could you pick worse elements? I don't think so.

Generally You go heat or toxic. Heat is great for gas builds and gas builds on many weapons are really great. Gas +slash HM bramma does DoT ticks so high that will even slay high lvl armored grineer, np. It can also help in armor strip in corrosive +heat builds. It also does solid bonus against cloned flesh. And can add up to radiation damage if needed. Toxic is good cause corrosive (duh) and adding it up to Radiation builds to circumvent shields, add DOTs and also does well against ferrite armor.

On nukor toxic, electric or heat. 

[Educated_Beast]

2 hours ago, ThorienKELL said:

Wat? Magnetic? Impact? Could you pick worse elements? I don't think so.

It is ok to have fun with non-meta builds.  I get that heat is better, but I want as many status procs as possible. 

3 hours ago, (PS4)l-p4p-I said:

I run my nukor with cold bonus, so i use 60/60 shock & toxin mods for 100% sc, and primed heat mod to add explosive element. I get corrosive, radiation, plus explosion for some cc and i feel it does pretty good.

I really hate blast procs because it knocks them down, wastes ammo, and makes head shots harder.  But that is me.  

If you are having fun in a game, mission accomplished.  

[(PSN)l-p4p-I]

hace 38 minutos, Educated_Beast dijo:

I really hate blast procs because it knocks them down, wastes ammo, and makes head shots harder.  But that is me.  

If you are having fun in a game, mission accomplished.  

Idk why it would waste more ammo and idk why i would want head shot them if i can melt the enemies almost immediately, but hey, as u said, it is ok to have fun, and as per see, is far better than magnetic or impact lol

Edited February 24, 2020 by (PS4)l-p4p-I
typo

[Walkampf]

If you want an anti shield element, i'd go for neither and instead for cold.

It has very similar damage multipliers across different armor types, and a much better value for heavy armor.

The cold procc also synergises extremly good with a lot of other proccs and effects, like any kind of stagger.

The stagger animations get a lot longer, 75% if I remebmer right. Same goes for finisher openings.

[DeckChairVonBananaCamel]

18 hours ago, OvisCaedo said:

It does not; that was listed in a preview build, but DE changed their mind before the actual release.

ahhh i was unaware they changed that plan! 

Well in that case, if OP is using it for condition overload they would want blast in there somewhere, because blast counts as 2 status procs

[Educated_Beast]

On 2020-02-24 at 10:28 AM, (PS4)l-p4p-I said:

Idk why it would waste more ammo and idk why i would want head shot them if i can melt the enemies almost immediately, but hey, as u said, it is ok to have fun, and as per see, is far better than magnetic or impact lol

I say waste more ammo because when they fall down, I miss shots firing at where they were.  That's me, I supposed you would get used to it.  

On 2020-02-24 at 7:00 PM, DeckChairVonBananaCamel said:

ahhh i was unaware they changed that plan! 

Well in that case, if OP is using it for condition overload they would want blast in there somewhere, because blast counts as 2 status procs

Part condition overload but also nice with sentients changing elements.  Could possibly be useful on orb with ruinous extension (but not sure that mod would fit anywhere).  But also, just for fun.  That said, is blast x2 status for the blast + impact?  

 

[(PSN)l-p4p-I]

hace 29 minutos, Educated_Beast dijo:

I say waste more ammo because when they fall down, I miss shots firing at where they were.  That's me, I supposed you would get used to it.  

Oh, now i understand what u mean. But is not like u have lost an entire magazine bc the enemy fell to the ground or u have the worst aiming in the world, they are still there, in the ground.

U still have ammo mutation mods, or carrier with ammo case precept if u are worried about ammo

Whatever...

[CosmicHermitCrab]

@Educated_Beast I personally run magnetic kuva nukor. The kuva nukor inflicts status effects a lot, and magnetic status effects lowers max shields by 75% for 4 seconds, which is a huge % compared to the % of just one corrosive proc, which is 25%. Corrosive procs have infinite duration however, but cannot stack additively, they stack multiplicatively instead (magnetic procs can't stack at all as well). So one magnetic proc in terms of just the % number, isn't simply 3 stacks of corrosive procs, but more. I know it's strange to compare the two because one is for armor and the other for shields, but I'm just comparing the effective debuffs (%) of the two in just one instance of status proc.

Okay, now lets compare it with impact damage. Magnetic has a better status effect for dealing with shields since impact status effect is merely crowd control aka stagger. Magnetic also deals more damage against shields than impact damage, especially on corpus units, if you look at: https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Damage#Corpus. Thus, magnetic damage is superior than impact damage on shield health in regards to DPS; however, impact damage is better for nukor to inflict CC if you aren't gonna mod a damage type whose status effect can inflict CC such as blast, electric, fire, and debatably cold damage. However, I mod my nukor with corrosive and heat, so I don't need the CC from impact status effect on nukor because the enemies panic from my fire status effect. Thus, I have no superior objective reason to run impact over magnetic, so I went with magnetic for kuva nukor.

Hope this helps!

Just fyi, I got radiation, magnetic, corrosive, and fire on my nukor...got toxin damage and multishot on my nukor riven, main reason why...

With this setup, it's very effective against all factions and even enemies with both armor and shields such as index enemies and bursas...

Edited February 26, 2020 by CrystalSpark

[LoneWolveYoutube]

Impact and magnetic will literally make you do less damage.  

[NinjaZeku]

On 2020-02-24 at 2:41 PM, ThorienKELL said:

Heat is great for gas builds

I prefer innate Toxin for those, especially on Secondaries since you've got Primed Heated Charge there
for more immediate damage (and also for when you want to add Heat to Corrosive / Viral).

After all, it's only the Toxin portion on the weapon (innate + Mods) that contributes to the Toxin DOT.

For Nukor, a single 60% Dual Stat is already enough for reliable Status really, so triple Toxin + PHC = yay 🙂

[Portlalaland]

I just fused my nukor with magnetic. I think I like it this way better.

[CosmicHermitCrab]

2 hours ago, NinjaZeku said:

I prefer innate Toxin for those, especially on Secondaries since you've got Primed Heated Charge there
for more immediate damage (and also for when you want to add Heat to Corrosive / Viral).

After all, it's only the Toxin portion on the weapon (innate + Mods) that contributes to the Toxin DOT.

For Nukor, a single 60% Dual Stat is already enough for reliable Status really, so triple Toxin + PHC = yay 🙂

You do realize that both the innate toxin and heat does not contribute to the damage-over-time ticks according to details of gas damage in wiki page: https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Damage/Gas_Damage. I quote, "However, innate  Toxin damage from weapons such as the  Paracyst does not contribute to the damage-over-time ticks." However, both heat and toxin innate damage types will increase the status proc bias of gas.

So it's essentially only double toxin or whatever you mean (pathogen rounds and pistol pestilence)...it's possible to get triple with a riven I guess, though...

2 hours ago, LoneWolveYoutube said:

Impact and magnetic will literally make you do less damage.  

This is kinda sad, and I see other statements such as this in general from the warframe community. Corrosive and heat aren't always the best sources of damage on every single enemy in the game (it's a very absolute claim as well), the reason why they are meta is how they mainly mechanically work with their status effects on armored enemies, which usually are the toughest enemies in the game. You can't simply run corrosive and heat on every single weapon and expect it to be the the top-notch best, sometimes viral and slash is better on certain weapons against the same enemies, sometimes for only hunting specific enemies such as tricap Eidolons or even grineer railjack enemies (who aren't immune to status effects) radiation is better because of damage weaknesses. It requires understanding the basics of damage 2.0 and preference of oneself on deciding what a weapon build should become. I'm sorry, but the game's damage system isn't as simple as always run corrosive damage for most optimal performance and at the same time is declared as a fair system; it would be poor game design otherwise. This game has existed for so many years and I still see ignorance of how the nature of warframe's ancient damage 2.0 system operates.

I even see some top youtubers making the same ignorant mistakes, and I know it can be hard and time consuming to read and understand distributed information from warframe wiki, but this system has been in this game for so long. I'm just tired of the misinformation, absolute statements, and generalized statements these days. I remember one youtuber said corrosive projection buffs the defenses of tricap eidolons, this is a hugely misleading informative statement and the statement doesn't actually offer what corrosive projection does onto Eidolons.

Also, for generalized damage builds, which are used against all factions, little sacrifices will be made against each specific faction in order to maintain "decent" damage against all factions with the same build. For example, if you add corrosive and magnetic damage together, corrosive will do less damage on shielded enemies whereas magnetic damage does less damage on armored; however, you have both armored health and shield health covered in terms of generic damage builds because corrosive is generally good on armored enemies and magnetic is good on shields. However, obviously going full corrosive is better than mix of corrosive and magnetic on armored enemies...

TBH, the only counterargument I can come up with to why to use electric/toxin innate bonus on kuva nukor instead of magnetic damage on kuva nukor is if you wanted to add primed heated charge on the same build, this way you have more status proc bias towards corrosive than heat because 165% bonus heat damage is too much in terms of status proc bias.

With the magnetic innate bonus on kuva nukor I still overstrip armored health on enemies because of the perfect status chance (100%) and fast fire rate (overstrip: meaning yellow health turns into red health before death). The corrosive damage is higher than the innate magnetic damage of course because of how bonus elemental damage mods work, which is another factor of why I still overstrip enemy's armor (status proc bias).

Now for the impact idea, that's interesting, but so off-meta even I don't wanna use it...

Edited February 26, 2020 by CrystalSpark

[NinjaZeku]

1 hour ago, CrystalSpark said:

innate toxin [...] does not contribute to the damage-over-time ticks

Huh, I somehow missed that until now. Thank you.

[DeckChairVonBananaCamel]

9 hours ago, Educated_Beast said:

Part condition overload but also nice with sentients changing elements.  Could possibly be useful on orb with ruinous extension (but not sure that mod would fit anywhere).  But also, just for fun.  That said, is blast x2 status for the blast + impact?  

 

the blast proc counts 1 status for the knockdown, and one for the UI icon. I wonder if that means fly-kicking a dude in the face is considered a status?

for sentients though i tend to just carry an amp with the klamora prism, one they have some resistances i pop out, sweep the beam across them, and pop back in. (assuming im not carrying paracesis, or playing valkyr)

[3rdpig]

I went toxin for mine, it's awesome!