What was the point of nerfing corrosive procs?

[(PSN)thegarada]

On 2020-03-08 at 10:40 AM, (PS4)Eluminary said:

Well there are numbers and there are results.  20 lvl 155 hg no paused ai no invincible  they all shred to viral faster than they did prepatch to corrosive.  Lots of stuff changed but times to kill are faster if you alter your builds a bit.

 

?!!!!

Dude, this has always been the case with melee weapons. The meta for melee weapons has been slash + viral for years. Nothing has changed.

[DealerOfAbsolutes]

2 hours ago, Fallen77 said:

Corrosiv weapons can't overstrip armor anymore, so we gain a big ease of use on that front.

And ennemies bellow lvl 80 are EZ AF to kill, it is absolutly inconcequential.

Overstrip is better against enemies with over 4500 Ferrite armor.

[(PSN)Eluminary]

1 hour ago, (PS4)thegarada said:

?!!!!

Dude, this has always been the case with melee weapons. The meta for melee weapons has been slash + viral for years. Nothing has changed.

the orginal poster was just crying about everything being so badly nerfed I just posted that to show it is not  high lvl stuff on pc dies faster now not slower.  That vid is from pc build too btw the viral status is different now.  It increased dmg now instead of having health its better than corrosive is/was before the patch

Edited March 9, 2020 by (PS4)Eluminary

[Signs]

5 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

1. Viral is obviously designed to work best with slash and heat. Viral on a slash based weapons is several times stronger than it was. Viral+Slash under the old system was already better than corrosive since it bypassed armor compeltely.

2. You are completely neglecting that elemental procs occur much more regularly now since IPS doesnt have the 4x higher chance to proc anymore. So you will hit the new cap far quicker.

1. It actually turns out that most weapons can't build viral heat because most weapons aren't primaries nor slash focused. It also turns out that viral heat on a lot of weapons actually isn't that effective as you need to proc 2 elementals instead of one and heat needs to be proc'd more than viral but then that makes the initial ramp up take longer if you weight more towards heat. Also, the only weapons that can use heat effectively are actually secondaries because they have primed heated charge. Primaries have hunter munitions viral and melee builds are too tight to fit in enough heat damage. Saying viral+slash in the old system was already better the corrosive is just outright wrong. There are many weapons that perform much better with a corrosive build than a viral slash/hunter munitions counterpart.

2. This is true however, 1. it has no effect on purely elemental weapons. 2. let's do some math quickly. weapons that run corrosive typically run 2 corrosive mods. The combinations are 2 60/60's, 1 60/60 and 1 90 or 2 90's. This equals a total of 120/150/180 % elemental damage. Before with old weighting, you would proc 23/27/31 % of the time. The new weighting you would proc 54/60/64 % of the time. Extrapolated over 10 procs, old would proc 2/3/3 corrosive and new would proc 5/6/6 corrosive procs. Against the enemy that I did the math on, old corrosive you'd be dealing 6.78/8.84/8.84% damage, new corrosive you'd be dealing 9.33/10.46/10.46 % damage. Which in the first 10 procs look like a buff. But when extrapolated over 30 procs (which is not unusual to have against a tough enemy with a high status gun), the damage difference it apparent. Old corrosive would proc 7/8/9 procs and new corrosive would proc 10/10/10 procs. Old corrosive would be dealing 23.4/29/35.3 % damage with old corrosive dealing 20.46/20.46/20.46 % damage. And again, this has no effect on purely elemental weapons, which there turns out to be quite a couple of them.

[Signs]

5 hours ago, ILOHARTA said:

there is also the ulterior reason (which is the real one): everybody was using the same built. Zero variety, and that contributes toward reaching the burnout-point, and people leaving the game.

which is actually untrue because pre update, people actually used more than just corrosive. People used the newly buffed heat, people used viral+slash, people used slash without viral, people used gas. The only ones people didn't use were the actual trash ones which were magnetic, radiation (except for eidolons), blast, impact, puncture, electric and cold, toxin being an exception because gas was basically better than it.

6 hours ago, ILOHARTA said:

everybody was using the same built. Zero variety

And now viral slash is leagues above everything else so I guess that's variety

[ILOHARTA]

9 minutes ago, Signs said:

And now viral slash is leagues above everything else so I guess that's variety

I've been using it for months because in my opinion it worked better than any other solution. Now I made some little tweaking, and the killrate improved even further...

[Formous]

I have taken to using fire now on my melees for strips, and corrosive for ranged gunnery.

[SneakyErvin]

53 minutes ago, Signs said:

1. It actually turns out that most weapons can't build viral heat because most weapons aren't primaries nor slash focused. It also turns out that viral heat on a lot of weapons actually isn't that effective as you need to proc 2 elementals instead of one and heat needs to be proc'd more than viral but then that makes the initial ramp up take longer if you weight more towards heat. Also, the only weapons that can use heat effectively are actually secondaries because they have primed heated charge. Primaries have hunter munitions viral and melee builds are too tight to fit in enough heat damage. Saying viral+slash in the old system was already better the corrosive is just outright wrong. There are many weapons that perform much better with a corrosive build than a viral slash/hunter munitions counterpart.

2. This is true however, 1. it has no effect on purely elemental weapons. 2. let's do some math quickly. weapons that run corrosive typically run 2 corrosive mods. The combinations are 2 60/60's, 1 60/60 and 1 90 or 2 90's. This equals a total of 120/150/180 % elemental damage. Before with old weighting, you would proc 23/27/31 % of the time. The new weighting you would proc 54/60/64 % of the time. Extrapolated over 10 procs, old would proc 2/3/3 corrosive and new would proc 5/6/6 corrosive procs. Against the enemy that I did the math on, old corrosive you'd be dealing 6.78/8.84/8.84% damage, new corrosive you'd be dealing 9.33/10.46/10.46 % damage. Which in the first 10 procs look like a buff. But when extrapolated over 30 procs (which is not unusual to have against a tough enemy with a high status gun), the damage difference it apparent. Old corrosive would proc 7/8/9 procs and new corrosive would proc 10/10/10 procs. Old corrosive would be dealing 23.4/29/35.3 % damage with old corrosive dealing 20.46/20.46/20.46 % damage. And again, this has no effect on purely elemental weapons, which there turns out to be quite a couple of them.

You'd only use heat for an additional 50% armor strip, so you can keep that value low, just as you did with old viral since it only needed a refresh from time to time. If you wanna build for damaging heat you do it alongside corrosive, since it has far less armor to work against and effectively helping you to reach 90% damage reduction instead. And what I'm saying with viral+slash being better under the old system, I'm refering to the most useful weapons out there, not that it worked on every single weapon. Just as it doesnt do now either. I simply used weapons where it was the best choice, since those weapons also often outperformed others. The exception for me being Silva and Aegis under the old system, where corrosive+heat wrecked havoc. Under the new system however a viral+heat Silva and Aegis is so much stronger thanks to the forced slash procs and scaling damage buff of viral.

But according to that wouldnt the new system also reach 10 stack in only half the time compared to the old? Meaning a far quicker ramp up before reaching max damage potential. And that is without taking into account that high status weapons under the new system can proc several procs per shot.

[Oreades]

There was no point in keeping it how it was.

Personally speaking I find all auras to be pretty lackluster including old corrosive. The only time you really "needed" it was in niche scenarios where you where the armor scaling just got stupid. So pretty much only for protracted endless diaper runs. 

So anyone why was running it on the sta card starchart or even up through sorties was either leaving it in because they partook In The occasional diaper run or because they are parroting people who ran them.

Now that they've changed the scaling to not be LOL broken.... we don't need the old iteration of corrosive.

[Fallen77]

Il y a 14 heures, DealerOfAbsolutes a dit :

Overstrip is better against enemies with over 4500 Ferrite armor.

So what ? It's vaguely weaker ? I'm saying you don't have to overthink your builds anymore, just proc as many as you can and you're done.

And it doesn't matter that it's weaker now, if DE wants to set our damage capability at this level, so be it, that's the game they're trying to make.

[tzadquiel]

14 hours ago, DealerOfAbsolutes said:

Overstrip is better against enemies with over 4500 Ferrite armor.

its not just you, but it is just 'strip'. not overstrip. thanks 

[ShortCat]

The point of nerfing Corrosive was to please misguided players, who thought Corrosive is the element and refused to use anything else. Spoiler - it wasn't.

Corrosive changes led to a massive nerf to pure status weapons, that do not have access to Slash while on the other hand massivly buffing pure crit & hybrid weapon types.
Weapons with high status application rate, like Strun Wraith, are worse now because their high damage potential against armor was the ability to strip armor and apply Heat to exposed flesh. It still is effecteive against Ferrite units, due to Corrosve bonus against said health type. However, it struggles agaisnt Alloy, because remaining armor still provides DR and is neutral to Corrosive. High status Corrosive or Corrosive+Heat loadouts excel against Ferrite, but struggle against Alloy.
Viral or Viral+Heat setups are the budget alround solutions. Those have lower TTK against Ferrite than Corrosive, but perform slightly better against Alloy. On a personal not, I have no idea why anyone should use this loadout, because Viral+Slash exists.
Slash or Viral+Slash are the combos agaisnt armor now. Well, they already were before rework, people were just ignorant to it. Now its potential exploded with Viral as well as proc priority changes. High crit/lower-end-status primaries can reliably proc Slash via HM and apply Viral more reliably thanks to its higher priority. Melee weapons have access to forced Slash procs (sadly not Hammers, those and some other classes are left behind). Secondaries are the most critical weapon class in this regard, as there is no HM available. As a result Akstilletos are kinda bad now, but weapons like Akjagara or Akvasto are even stronger.

Right now, there is less build variety, than before the update. If a weapon seems to perform better, it is mostly due to softer enemies. The optimal anti-armor tactics has been reduced to Slash based loadouts and meta will gravitate even more towards one damage type. Corrosive based armor strip tactics are noticably gimped against Alloyed units. Brute force Gas builds are mostly dead.

This rework is based on entirely misguided feedback and its execution will result in opposite effect.