SneakyErvin Posted April 7, 2020 Share Posted April 7, 2020 46 minutes ago, Padre_Akais said: I agree that they shouldn't be vilified. I also think that players shouldn't just revise facts to fit their favorite narrative either. They do over-promise and under-deliver routinely and have done so for years...fact. They listen to portions of their playerbase, deliver on their random asks, and it has proved to work to both the game's detriment and betterment in the past....also fact. You don't have to like those facts for them to still remain facts... What's really silly, imo, is hurling loose insults at players annoyed with the results of those facts. I think White Knighting is cool if you are a fan but you are basically tilting at windmills when you ignore or revise facts to fit your narrative. I'm just curious on the part where they have over-promised anything. Which release was that tied to? I cant think of a single piece of content where they have expressed any actual promises regarding anything. They show alot of stuff, stiff that doesnt always make it into the game, but is that called a promise these days? In other games they've been know as spoilers, I guess I need to freshen up my interwebz-lingo. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rakosta_Kai Posted April 7, 2020 Share Posted April 7, 2020 Just now, Zimzala said: snip And you appear to make yourself feel better by blaming the players instead. Circular logic has no point...Literally. That saids, My stance differs entirely... I would rather DE just surprised me with something they release that is so polished it should be released as opposed to merely being ready enough that it can be. I don't need or want Committee or Community development. I don't want fanfare. I don't want marketing hype. The update notes can literally say, "Good Luck" and force players to work together to figure it all out. Heck, They can even kill the wiki for the new content for the weekend. But all of the over promising, under delivering, and bending to the whims of random players social media/forum comments? I'm about done with it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zimzala Posted April 7, 2020 Share Posted April 7, 2020 1 minute ago, SneakyErvin said: I'm just curious on the part where they have over-promised anything. Which release was that tied to? I cant think of a single piece of content where they have expressed any actual promises regarding anything. They show alot of stuff, stiff that doesnt always make it into the game, but is that called a promise these days? In other games they've been know as spoilers, I guess I need to freshen up my interwebz-lingo. My whole point, thanks! What you see in a creative display of ideas, when represented as such, is not a list of promises, only list of hopes and dreams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zimzala Posted April 7, 2020 Share Posted April 7, 2020 Just now, Padre_Akais said: But all of the over promising, under delivering, and bending to the whims of random players social media/forum comments? I'm about done with it. So you think the game is not going in the direction you enjoy...nothing wrong with that, these things happen, I see the same game a I saw when I first looked at it years ago. Game forums are nothing but circular logic, it's all just mental masturbation and has no meaning ... it's petty arguments over details in a video game afterall... Why would anyone expect anything more than that? I see a bunch of gamers that like to argue over rules and details who come onto game forums because they enjoy the argument. I also see a bunch of gamers that have deluded themsleves into thinking they can control game companies and other players through forum encounters. So much fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rakosta_Kai Posted April 7, 2020 Share Posted April 7, 2020 5 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said: I'm just curious on the part where they have over-promised anything. Which release was that tied to? I cant think of a single piece of content where they have expressed any actual promises regarding anything. They show alot of stuff, stiff that doesnt always make it into the game, but is that called a promise these days? In other games they've been know as spoilers, I guess I need to freshen up my interwebz-lingo. Congratulations as you don't have to... You can scroll up and watch that gameplay footage I posted and compare it to what currently exists in game now. And in other games it's been known as over-hyping too. I prefer to refer to it in classic terms: Over-promising. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SneakyErvin Posted April 7, 2020 Share Posted April 7, 2020 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Padre_Akais said: Congratulations as you don't have to... You can scroll up and watch that gameplay footage I posted and compare it to what currently exists in game now. And in other games it's been known as over-hyping too. I prefer to refer to it in classic terms: Over-promising. It is a video 6 months ahead of time. Those are not promises, those are showcases of WIP, hence why it is 6 months down the road and not next week or the one after that, heck, not even the coming month. Several of the things in that video arent ready at all. It is like the people saying we got promised some better lich.. where exactly is that better lich? We have a bland one running around doing practically nothing and you really need to concentrate to understand it is an actual lich and not just some ship boss. They barely show the lich system except for an info sheet that shows the age of the lich and some other things. Mad hyping done by DE I so look forward to all of th... wait what exactly are they showcasing that is supposed to get me hyped? edit: Also, saying to compare it to what currently exsists means that you also ignored everything during those months leading up to railjack, since they kept bringing us info on what to expect, which was not the whole package in one go. That is more of a promise than some video 6 months ahead of time, since they actually state what will come and not with each stage of the release. Edited April 7, 2020 by SneakyErvin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torbamf Posted April 7, 2020 Share Posted April 7, 2020 2 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said: Warframe has GOTTEN boring and stale??? Umm, so what game were you playing before exactly? What version of Warframe was fun and fresh for you? I've been playing for years and it's practically the same exact game with just... more. We have more enemies, mods, missing types, weapons, modifications and buffs, etc. What exactly was so great about Warframe that's been ruined? When I say this I mainly refer to the start of the game up to around War Within. That time in my opinion was the most fun, building up power by making new weapons and frames along with getting better at the overall gameplay. After that, without any good ways to capitalize on all the growth that we worked for, we have nothing to do but replay stuff or play the new content, which may be good, but doesn’t challenge us by offering great adversity and rewards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rakosta_Kai Posted April 7, 2020 Share Posted April 7, 2020 4 minutes ago, Zimzala said: So you think the game is not going in the direction you enjoy...nothing wrong with that, these things happen, I see the same game a I saw when I first looked at it years ago. Congratulations? 9 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said: It is a video 6 months ahead of time. Those are not promises, those are showcases of WIP, hence why it is 6 months down the road and not next week or the one after that, heck, not even the coming month. Several of the things in that video arent ready at all. It is like the people saying we got promised some better lich.. where exactly is that better lich? We have a bland one running around doing practically nothing and you really need to concentrate to understand it is an actual lich and not just some ship boss. They barely show the lich system except for an info sheet that shows the age of the lich and some other things. Mad hyping done by DE I so look forward to all of th... wait what exactly are they showcasing that is supposed to get me hyped? edit: Also, saying to compare it to what currently exsists means that you also ignored everything during those months leading up to railjack, since they kept bringing us info on what to expect, which was not the whole package in one go. That is more of a promise than some video 6 months ahead of time, since they actually state what will come and not with each stage of the release. Thanks Bud, I appreciate your always insightful and balanced view. Please explain some things for me then... How does a gameplay demo feature more content than the finished product even with 6 more months to work on it? Help me understand this. I don't recall them saying that squad link would be instanced, or that Liches wouldn't be added anytime soon due to technical difficulties. Can you cite specifically when this got said? So what technical difficulty occurred between the reveal and launch that kept Liches from being added in Railjack? It doesn't have to be a day one feature...Is it coming? Do you know? And I didn't forget the content prior to the Empyrean launch...I mean do we really need to bring Liches up? What about forced auto blocking? It would seem me bringing these up would be derivative to the stance I have already taken in this thread tbh. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zimzala Posted April 7, 2020 Share Posted April 7, 2020 9 minutes ago, Padre_Akais said: How does a gameplay demo feature more content than the finished product even with 6 more months to work on it? Help me understand this. I don't recall them saying that squad link would be instanced, or that Liches wouldn't be added anytime soon due to technical difficulties. Can you cite specifically when this got said? So what technical difficulty occurred between the reveal and launch that kept Liches from being added in Railjack? It doesn't have to be a day one feature...Is it coming? Do you know? They are called 'mock-ups' so that ideas can be realized. Only DE knows why it added or did not add certain content, but the general answer is always time and money. Why do you think we are entitled to a complete list of all these things? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hypernaut1 Posted April 7, 2020 Share Posted April 7, 2020 (edited) 32 minutes ago, Torbamf said: When I say this I mainly refer to the start of the game up to around War Within. That time in my opinion was the most fun, building up power by making new weapons and frames along with getting better at the overall gameplay. After that, without any good ways to capitalize on all the growth that we worked for, we have nothing to do but replay stuff or play the new content, which may be good, but doesn’t challenge us by offering great adversity and rewards. Congratulations... You beat the game then? If you've played to a point where you don't want more of the same, that's not the games fault. I see Warframe as a sandbox of things to do/grind for. It's not going to be endless variations of corridor dungeons forever. Eventually you'll reach the end of that style of content. I personally enjoy switching things up. I like that I can hop into a railjack, make progress and then go back to classic WF gameplay. The fact that they aren't tied directly together makes it easier to ignore things I don't like or feel like dealing with yet. I don't think that's necessarily a flaw. Edited April 7, 2020 by Hypernaut1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SneakyErvin Posted April 7, 2020 Share Posted April 7, 2020 20 minutes ago, Padre_Akais said: Please explain some things for me then... How does a gameplay demo feature more content than the finished product even with 6 more months to work on it? Help me understand this. I don't recall them saying that squad link would be instanced, or that Liches wouldn't be added anytime soon due to technical difficulties. Can you cite specifically when this got said? So what technical difficulty occurred between the reveal and launch that kept Liches from being added in Railjack? It doesn't have to be a day one feature...Is it coming? Do you know? And I didn't forget the content prior to the Empyrean launch...I mean do we really need to bring Liches up? What about forced auto blocking? It would seem me bringing these up would be derivative to the stance I have already taken in this thread tbh. It didnt, since we havent gotten the finished product yet. See, again you ignore the info about the staggered release of empyrean/RJ. We've gotten liches and part of empyrean as two seperate releases, empyrean is still not finished. Not sure if the last things will come with the corpus expansion or not. They made a table of the empyrean parts, liches were never mentioned to be part of it. Liches came kinda out of the blue when they released the mode. The reason it was showcased together with railjack was because the showcase revealed the intended final plan of what empyrean will have when it is all done. They showed us their full vision. Railjack being a new system was most likely the reason for liches being seperate, in order to not have all kinds of bugs in the bag in one go. Easier to find bugs for a new system when it interacts as little as possible with other things. Likely the reason why we have squad link in an event to begin with since they can pinpoint the issues better (which already seems hard enough). I also wasnt talking about content, I was talking about the info leading up to railjack, regarding the plans on how to release it. Things far more concrete and solid than a random video from 6 months prior that isnt more than a showcase of several different planned systems. That info you decided to ignore, since it makes the claim of the video as a promise fall more into your favor. But since the video wasnt the last we heard regarding RJ, it is not something to be taken as a promise. Also not really sure what auto blocking has to do with anything here. Just because I dont agree with the video being seen as a promise doesnt mean I didnt dislike liches or hate the fact that auto blocking is a thing. Their state has no impact on wether or not the video was a promise. Those things are their own subject out of a mechanical implementation point of view. My PoV regarding them is that liches sucked, but work well now and auto-blocking is a frickin' plague, so is forced weapon switching when blocking/aiming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDMblue Posted April 7, 2020 Share Posted April 7, 2020 5 hours ago, (PS4)SolarPhantom82 said: You mean that unplayable demo, that they themselves got up and played. I do understand what your saying about demos. I don't think you understand what we are saying. Think God of wars demo. The creator got on stange and showed off the game play by playing it. And when it came out its was the same.... Because it's was a live stage demo. A game play demo. .. we all understand things change in dev 6 months later. All I'm saying is the way they did their demo was misleading. Much like anthems demo. Not as bad though. . Are we uneducated for not knowing none of what they played was real. ? That it wasn't in game engine. . What they played one month before release was a playerble demo too. . I'm saying they weren't clear about the first one. Again misleading. ..... Can you as a visitor play the demo? No... it was a stage show. Probably breaks if you look at it wrong... on that note it’s basically what they made Railjack as. So what are you mad about? Lich boss fights? If so make an honest thread about when are lich boss battles coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDMblue Posted April 7, 2020 Share Posted April 7, 2020 7 hours ago, Padre_Akais said: If I ran it? It would be primarily a way for players who have interacted in game with so many to meet and mingle with their online friends and the developers of the game they love so much—plus some teasers about upcoming projects. That said, I wouldn't have those teasers feature the players being capable of doing something that they don't get to actually do in-game because that would appear dishonest even if they had the best of intentions. That's over-promising and under-delivering... A gamer's level of education, sophistication, or discernment doesn't even factor into that very simple fact. Likewise, I wouldn't market a "Unplayable stage demo" as a "Full gameplay demo" as I would fear it to be misleading. Dramatic interpretations of intended content shouldn't apply when it's a Full Gameplay Demo as then it wouldn't actually be a gameplay demo...Would it? Bioware did much the same thing with Anthem and in much the same way with their in-engine gameplay reveal for the game and the actual released product. That is precisely what annoyed so many players so quickly. So we might agree on a lot, but we won't ever agree on this point... You are welcome to continue thinking that players should be smart enough to know better and I will continue to think that it's the developers job to ensure they don't have to be. I’m just so confused what’s the problem? Anthem having a less full city and no mech walking outside... damn you DE I knew it was you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rakosta_Kai Posted April 7, 2020 Share Posted April 7, 2020 44 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said: It didnt, since we havent gotten the finished product yet. See, again you ignore the info about the staggered release of empyrean/RJ. We've gotten liches and part of empyrean as two seperate releases, empyrean is still not finished. Not sure if the last things will come with the corpus expansion or not. The one thing I am not ignoring is the fact you are being actively disingenuous... 45 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said: They made a table of the empyrean parts, liches were never mentioned to be part of it. Liches came kinda out of the blue when they released the mode. The reason it was showcased together with railjack was because the showcase revealed the intended final plan of what empyrean will have when it is all done. They showed us their full vision. Railjack being a new system was most likely the reason for liches being seperate, in order to not have all kinds of bugs in the bag in one go. Easier to find bugs for a new system when it interacts as little as possible with other things. Likely the reason why we have squad link in an event to begin with since they can pinpoint the issues better (which already seems hard enough). I also wasnt talking about content, I was talking about the info leading up to railjack, regarding the plans on how to release it. Things far more concrete and solid than a random video from 6 months prior that isnt more than a showcase of several different planned systems. That info you decided to ignore, since it makes the claim of the video as a promise fall more into your favor. But since the video wasnt the last we heard regarding RJ, it is not something to be taken as a promise. Also not really sure what auto blocking has to do with anything here. Just because I dont agree with the video being seen as a promise doesnt mean I didnt dislike liches or hate the fact that auto blocking is a thing. Their state has no impact on wether or not the video was a promise. Those things are their own subject out of a mechanical implementation point of view. My PoV regarding them is that liches sucked, but work well now and auto-blocking is a frickin' plague, so is forced weapon switching when blocking/aiming. ...Were you not, you would have had actual facts instead of random feel/felts to support yourself and you had to know this word soup wasn't going to cut it. Likewise, had you read the whole thread( instead of picking and choosing what you feel warrants you putting your cape on for) you'd know precisely why auto-block got mentioned by me. Allow me to put this in a manner you can't help but understand: That gameplay demo has more content in it than what has been released into the game...That shouldn't even begin to be possible give time differences. A WIP explicitly denotes progress and not completed result. A smaller product with more production time equals an over-hype. Hyping what you don't ultimately deliver is over-promising and under-delivering. By your logic, they progressed backward. It can clearly happen I guess...I mean it happened in Anthem too, right? You are free to speculate all you want or concoct scenarios that put you at ease on the matter...Leave me out of those as I don't care about speculation. If you say they didn't over-hype, over-promise, and under deliver then you need to outline specifically how and cite facts and sources to support this. Simply put, facts don't support your stance... Even saying DE was being wildly aspirational is undercut by calling that a gameplay demo in this case. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CuChulainnWD Posted April 7, 2020 Share Posted April 7, 2020 (edited) On 2020-04-06 at 11:10 AM, Dhrekr said: Edited April 8, 2020 by CuChulainnWD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InsuranceFraud Posted April 7, 2020 Share Posted April 7, 2020 I think a lot of people on these forums don’t seem to grasp that Warframe cannot last forever. The game has been around since 2012/2013. We are going on 7+ years now. It is natural for all games to eventually hit their peak and decline. Look at WoW for example. Warframe (arguable) hit the peak right after the second dream. It is entirely possible the game will continue for many years, but expecting the game to continue to peak again, after so many years, is unrealistic. I’m sure some of the developers are feeling burnt out of working on the same game for what feels like a life time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uan91 Posted April 7, 2020 Share Posted April 7, 2020 Where is ahah react when you need it? 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galuf Posted April 7, 2020 Share Posted April 7, 2020 (edited) I disagree. Warframe had bad moments in the past. The archwing patch for example wich was terribly bad and nothing on consoles. They lost a big chunk of their community wich never came back, players we coming back and forth(wich is normal for this game) but a good amount stopped coming back, and it don't blame them . The next major content patch will probably be something very big and we are all free to come and go. Don't get burned by hype of expectations but I'm pretty certain we will have good things to enjoy during the next year. I'll probably stop playing before the end of the event, but i'll definitely come back for doviri's paradox at least. Edited April 7, 2020 by Galuf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kapn655321 Posted April 7, 2020 Share Posted April 7, 2020 (edited) Edit: Post migration may or indeed has altered context. I would imagine another source of that burn out is people trying to clock a time of death prematurely, saying it's past it's prime, etc... while they're still innovating with the engine. I dunno man, do you work better when people tell you, "all hope is lost, it's futile, you're wasting your time, it can never be done, you peaked years ago.." Currently, my Warframe is windowed mode, while I watch a playthrough of a recently finished mod for Final Fantasy 7.. because people love the game, and in spite of it's outdated engine, still see and wish to create potential for it to make a more engaging experience. But, be sure to go tell these mod community that they're wasting their time, too. Edited April 7, 2020 by kapn655321 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InsuranceFraud Posted April 7, 2020 Share Posted April 7, 2020 BTW: I still do play the game, I will admit I have been disappointed with recent decisions the game has made.. but I will always play and check in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CuChulainnWD Posted April 7, 2020 Share Posted April 7, 2020 (edited) 6 minutes ago, VitalAmprex said: I think a lot of people on these forums don’t seem to grasp that Warframe cannot last forever. The game has been around since 2012/2013. We are going on 7+ years now. It is natural for all games to eventually hit their peak and decline. Look at WoW for example. Warframe (arguable) hit the peak right after the second dream. It is entirely possible the game will continue for many years, but expecting the game to continue to peak again, after so many years, is unrealistic. I’m sure some of the developers are feeling burnt out of working on the same game for what feels like a life time. I would not entirely agree. Much of the problems Warframe is having is on DE. DE are getting in their own way. They have forgotten what got Warframe to the multimillions of dollars profits that they have attained in the past year, was the community that helped get them there. DE has some fantastic ideas, the trouble is they are half @$$ing them and not following through on anything. If DE wants to keep this game alive, then they would listen to their community more, particularly their Veterans. They know what Warframe and DE were and what is wrong with the game. Sure the idea of Railjack is awesome, sure the idea of Liches is great, but they do not follow through to completion. They do not polish the game modes so that they are fun, replayable and challenging (The option of challenge should be included). Rewards should be rewarding. These are all simple concepts that DE seems to continually fail to grasp. Tossing out half baked broken content is not going to keep their game alive. So yes in that sense you are correct the game has peaked. People are tired of DE's shenanigans. If DE fixed the game and delivered on their promises, given the size of their staff, and the time spent; people would be more forgiving, and the exodus from the game would not be a thing. Meanwhile people are leaving like rats off a sinking ship with their wallets. DE knows it. What they do about it is up to them. Edited April 7, 2020 by CuChulainnWD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kapn655321 Posted April 7, 2020 Share Posted April 7, 2020 14 hours ago, VitalAmprex said: BTW: I still do play the game, I will admit I have been disappointed with recent decisions the game has made.. but I will always play and check in I think you're conflating a rushed decision from their slapped together work at home system and current difficulty in operations, as the sky literally falling. I've been hearing, "this is the end of Warframe," since 2014 man. Get's super old.. got to imagine the devs agree... and mods who have to prune these threads once they deteriorate into a depressing state of salt and rage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torbamf Posted April 7, 2020 Share Posted April 7, 2020 Is there any way we as Warframe players can help the game get better? Right now it just feels like being on a deserted island with a ship that constantly rotates it but refuses to listen to us. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galuf Posted April 7, 2020 Share Posted April 7, 2020 (edited) il y a 4 minutes, CuChulainnWD a dit : Tossing out half baked broken content is not going to keep their game alive Man, it is so sad reading that. Historically they always did what they wanted to. We never asked for Archwing and we got it(it was bad^^), we never asked for operator and it led to the best gameplay features and content the game has now... Let them chose what do to. And for what it is worth I find liches and RJ amazing and completly on par with the game core mechanics(therorycaft, execution, speedrun). Railjack for instance gets patched A LOT, bugs do not stay there, sometimes new ones are created tho but they work pretty hard on bug fixing, you'll probably love it 1 year or 2 from now. It is an ambitious gameplay expansion, it needs time to mature, it is cool that we got it early, I'm not the only one who enjoyed the content. Edited April 7, 2020 by Galuf 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highresist Posted April 7, 2020 Share Posted April 7, 2020 20 minutes ago, VitalAmprex said: It is natural for all games to eventually hit their peak and decline. Look at WoW for example. Rerolling the game to the 2013 version may be a good solution. At least there wouldn't be Rivens there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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