Discussion on recent direction of DE, updates and tennocon

[GrazzHopper]

Im not here to state all the bugs that ive seen or complain about the metric frick ton of grind, im here to say how sad i am about DE not listening to the community anymore, that is what drew me into the game in the first place and ive always had hope that they would revert to their old ways but i fear im at my breaking point. I wont be reading replies because i dont care about your opinion just like DE doesnt care about their community's opinions.

[SordidDreams]

I feel the same way. I though I'd give the event another try today, since they made a lot of changes and fixes to it. Spent an hour grinding, the relay I was in ended up with 96/100 murex driven away. Oh well, I guess I'll only get 1/3 of the rewards I worked for because other people didn't do their part! That totally makes me want to try again! Big brain game design right there!

[trunks013]

Huh! 

Well hello there tenno ^.^ 

Do you mean the changes for the scarlet spear thingny ?

[(PSN)SolarPhantom82]

1 hour ago, Torbamf said:

Is there any way we as Warframe players can help the game get better? Right now it just feels like being on a deserted island with a ship that constantly rotates it but refuses to listen to us.

Play other games, they only fix stuff when their number are down. 

[Hypernaut1]

7 minutes ago, (PS4)SolarPhantom82 said:

Play other games, they only fix stuff when their number are down. 

Honestly, it doesn't help when some of the loudest complainers are also the same people that have already exhausted the content. 

"Railjack is the worse 100hrs of grind I've ever experienced" is not going to convince DE they made a buggy unplayable mess hated by everyone.

You want the devs to get rid of something, you don't play it... Like Trials. 

Edited April 7, 2020 by Hypernaut1

[CuChulainnWD]

Mistake made

Edited April 8, 2020 by CuChulainnWD

[Kentar_Evil]

Anyone remember trinity nuking all enemies?
That was beautiful
and now is gone

[Rakosta_Kai]

14 hours ago, Torbamf said:

Is there any way we as Warframe players can help the game get better? Right now it just feels like being on a deserted island with a ship that constantly rotates it but refuses to listen to us.

It doesn't refuse to listen to you...That's why it's constantly rotating.

[SneakyErvin]

16 hours ago, Padre_Akais said:

 

The one thing I am not ignoring is the fact you are being actively disingenuous...

...Were you not, you would have had actual facts instead of random feel/felts to support yourself and you had to know this word soup wasn't going to cut it.

Likewise, had you read the whole thread( instead of picking and choosing what you feel warrants you putting your cape on for) you'd know precisely why auto-block got mentioned by me.

Allow me to put this in a manner you can't help but understand:

That gameplay demo has more content in it than what has been released into the game...That shouldn't even begin to be possible give time differences. A WIP explicitly denotes progress and not completed result.

A smaller product with more production time equals an over-hype.

 Hyping what you don't ultimately deliver is over-promising and under-delivering. 

By your logic, they progressed backward. It can clearly happen I guess...I mean it happened in Anthem too, right? 

You are free to speculate all you want or concoct scenarios that put you at ease on the matter...Leave me out of those as I don't care about speculation.

If you say they didn't over-hype, over-promise, and under deliver then you need to outline specifically how and cite facts and sources to support this.

Simply put, facts don't support your stance... Even saying DE was being wildly aspirational is undercut by calling that a gameplay demo in this case.

I'm honestly not sure what you are getting at. We've gotten info about a 3 stage railjack, what was shown in the video was the plan of what would be in after/with the release of stage 3. We are currently still only at stage 2. I'm not sure what is confusing about that or what is confusing with the video showing some things we havent gotten yet, since we arent at the final release yes. We are currently in what they refered to as "take flight", what we wait for is the "find answers" part, the first part was "dry dock".

If you dont understand why there is a difference between something showcased based on the final plan and what we got, which still isnt the finalized product then I'm not sure what world you are living in. As I said earlier, if the video was all we had to go by, then yes it would be missing the mark, but there is info after the video that makes their intentions all the more cleared, like the plan of the staggered release.

If you think they over-hyped or promised you something that is on you. There were no promises spoken, there were no actual hype, except what you experienced. As I said I wasnt hyped the slightest by any of it. I though there were some cool aspect but also alot that was just bland, like the very shallow lich (that everyone seem to praise for some reason), some pointless ground mission on PoE and some flying. In the end I thought ot was cool to see what they were planning, what visions they had, but nothing more than that. It was the same feeling I got back in 2018, nothing at the 2019 showcase changed my view. Not until we got our hands on it did I feel like "this is actually really fun!". If a company wants to hype something they dont put half baked projects in a video. I mean, if you really want what was shown in the video, great for you, I bet you would have been even more upset with that.

Facts do indeed support my stance because we have info on a 3 stage release aswell as specific info for both the dry dock part and take flight. Our opinion on hype or not is just a personal issue, there is no fact, you got hyped, I didnt, neither is right or wrong since it is for us to feel or not for something. Otherwise you get into Equilibrium territory. No promises were made, that is a fact however, since there were never any spoken words that promised anything 6 months ahead of time. The promises we got was when they showed the 3 stage release plan, if they dont fullfill that, then they have broken promises, but we arent there yet.

edit: I can say this much, I think it is taking slightly too long to reach stage 3 since iirc it was planned to come earlier in 2020 than where we are at now. But with the corpus changes coming I hope that will also be stage 3 of the release. If not they really need to step up their game, even with the pandemic going around, since these delayes happened prior to all that fuzz for other reasons.

Edited April 8, 2020 by SneakyErvin

[Rakosta_Kai]

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

snip

Let's say that every relevant thing you said in this post is factual...Then I would still be correct.

Because this "tiered roll-out" is under-delivered by design.

Now, the only functional difference is that it may not always be under-delivered— But that, by your own admission, makes it under-delivered currently.

That still leaves me with the right to think of it as such until the time it's fully launched and, given the way the Orb-Mothers in Fortuna got handled, I think my stance will hold water for a while yet.

You don't have to like it and you are welcome to think it's un-fair...I can't change that. Likewise, I don't see what you've said so far being a catalyst to change it either.

 

[Sylonus]

On 2020-04-06 at 12:09 AM, Roble_Viejo said:

Its not hard at all. Self damage for example: Remove it? Excellent, it only took some years of complaining to DE to realize that the game is too fast paced to have self damage. Replace for stagger? Fair, if a weapon can delete enemies is fair to punish spamming it without thinking. Adding self stagger to ALL AOE WEAPONS? No, unnecessary, pointless, and was implemented quite literally as a "slap in the wrist" for the community to stop asking them for stuff. 

Same just happened with objective healing, instead of saying, "fine, you need ways to keep the objective alive, we get it" and keeping things as they were they enabled it across the board but nerfed it so its pretty much useless on objectives. Lvl 30 infested do like 150 - 200 dmg to hp per second to an unshielded objective, best heals now do 500hp per second. This is ridiculous. All heals to objectives should be %hp. 

Vacuum too, oh so you want vacuum on everything? There you go, but its nerfed, and it still takes up a mod slot, even if everybody and their mothers run vacuum. 

This is happening more and more often and it's becoming more aggressive, they are faster to nerf things than to do anything else. 

Not to mention the falloff addition to all the weapons with and without self-damage that utterly murders their damage in comparison to their competitors without any drawbacks.

[SneakyErvin]

37 minutes ago, Padre_Akais said:

Let's say that every relevant thing you said in this post is factual...Then I would still be correct.

Because this "tiered roll-out" is under-delivered by design.

Now, the only functional difference is that it may not always be under-delivered— But that, by your own admission, makes it under-delivered currently.

That still leaves me with the right to think of it as such until the time it's fully launched and, given the way the Orb-Mothers in Fortuna got handled, I think my stance will hold water for a while yet.

You don't have to like it and you are welcome to think it's un-fair...I can't change that. Likewise, I don't see what you've said so far being a catalyst to change it either.

 

Underdelivered from the PoV of the plan, not underdelivered with the PoV of the video. Since the underdeliver/over-hype/bearking promises claims were burped out directly at the release of RJ, at which point in time it was spot on with the planned release cycle. It has however been dragged out since then because they implied part 3 would come early 2020, and early to me is jan-feb, not march, april or later.

There is a vast difference in overhyping or breaking promises and having something delayed. Saying something is overhyped or having promises broken when we havent even seen the final product is kinda far fetched. Now if they dont deliver what was intended to be part of the final release that is a whole different thing, but we just arent there yet, so cant really judge. We've gotten phase 1 and 2 as planned while the third phase is still delayed.

And it is not underdelivered by design, it is underdelivered due to delays and I doubt they design delays intentionally.

[Rakosta_Kai]

19 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Underdelivered from the PoV of the plan, not underdelivered with the PoV of the video.

You are back to semantics...

Under-delivered is Under-delivered. This is because the deliverable has not been entirely delivered (yet)... And you can't under-deliver without over-promising. Fact.

Things that were shown in the gameplay demo do not exist in game. Fact.

If it is not in game then it has not been delivered. Fact.

In this instance, the gameplay video features content and mechanics that do not exist in the live game...That's under-delivered.

You can assert that it's intentional, incidental, or accidental and the fact will remain that it still isn't delivered.

Likewise, the fact will continue to be that it is Under-delivered until it has been implemented— As such, it will remain Under-delivered until then.

You can continue to spin your way around that fact as much as you want and the only thing I can do is suggest you do is consider a career at Fox News.

I have italicized the point you keep having trouble grasping...How do I know you have trouble grasping the point?

Right here:

36 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

There is a vast difference in overhyping or breaking promises and having something delayed.

There is no vast difference—It is either in the game or it is not. That difference is binary.

What makes the difference vast to you is the semantics you apply to it.

I'm not applying semantics. If it was a gameplay demo then the files, script, and mechanics already exist and have not (or as you say, "Not yet") been implemented. Under-delivered.

If it is not a gameplay demo then it should not have been named one to begin with...Aspirational, Dishonest, and Under-delivered.

I don't really give a crap which one it is because the end result doesn't change from being currently Under-delivered.

Let me put it in a manner you might grasp more easily...

 I tell you I am going to give you 5 plat but only give you 3 plat instead.

Did I:

1. Deliver on my promise.
2. Under-deliver on my promise.
3. Over-deliver on my promise.
4. I just didn't have it all right then and will come back and give the the rest later.

[Zimzala]

30 minutes ago, Padre_Akais said:

You are back to semantics...

Under-delivered is Under-delivered. This is because the deliverable has not been entirely delivered (yet)... And you can't under-deliver without over-promising. Fact.

Things that were shown in the gameplay demo do not exist in game. Fact.

If it is not in game then it has not been delivered. Fact.

In this instance, the gameplay video features content and mechanics that do not exist in the live game...That's under-delivered.

You can assert that it's intentional, incidental, or accidental and the fact will remain that it still isn't delivered.

Likewise, the fact will continue to be that it is Under-delivered until it has been implemented— As such, it will remain Under-delivered until then.

You can continue to spin your way around that fact as much as you want and the only thing I can do is suggest you do is consider a career at Fox News.

I have italicized the point you keep having trouble grasping...How do I know you have trouble grasping the point?

Right here:

There is no vast difference—It is either in the game or it is not. That difference is binary.

What makes the difference vast to you is the semantics you apply to it.

I'm not applying semantics. If it was a gameplay demo then the files, script, and mechanics already exist and have not (or as you say, "Not yet") been implemented. Under-delivered.

If it is not a gameplay demo then it should not have been named one to begin with...Aspirational, Dishonest, and Under-delivered.

I don't really give a crap which one it is because the end result doesn't change from being currently Under-delivered.

Let me put it in a manner you might grasp more easily...

 I tell you I am going to give you 5 plat but only give you 3 plat instead.

Did I:

1. Deliver on my promise.
2. Under-deliver on my promise.
3. Over-deliver on my promise.
4. I just didn't have it all right then and will come back and give the the rest later.

TBH, I have always disliked rules-lawyers.

Additionally, I really dilike the whole concept of the blame game.

This leads me to my point ...

If you really harbor all of this disdain for a company, why would you play it's game?

You seem so sure the company is terrible...why continue to play or be involved?

Do you actually, really, truly think your forum posts will somehow change the course of the game company?

Bizarre.

I just see a bitter gamer that did not get what they decided someone else mentioned they might get...in a video game...

[Rakosta_Kai]

23 minutes ago, Zimzala said:

TBH, I have always disliked rules-lawyers.

Additionally, I really dilike the whole concept of the blame game.

This leads me to my point ...

If you really harbor all of this disdain for a company, why would you play it's game?

You seem so sure the company is terrible...why continue to play or be involved?

Do you actually, really, truly think your forum posts will somehow change the course of the game company?

Bizarre.

I just see a bitter gamer that did not get what they decided someone else mentioned they might get...in a video game...

I never said that I did...That's just you ascribing intent.

In this case, you are only actually seeing the fantasies you've made up for yourself.

I told you before... Facts are the only things that interest me.

You should go apply at Fox News too.

 

[Zimzala]

Just now, Padre_Akais said:

I never said that I did...That's just you ascribing intent.

In this case, you are only actually seeing the fantasies you've made up for yourself.

I told you before... Facts are the only things that interest me.

You should go apply at Fox News too.

 

Your words imply contempt, at the least, from my POV, for DE.  It may not be what you mean to convey, but it is implied, IMO.

Facts are what I try to base my POV upon as well...the interpretation of said facts is the rub here, IMO.

I often have the same issue, people not getting my meaning, no worries, no need to lash out and tell me to work for those idiots.

However, even this last post really screams angry gamer, IMO, 'out to be right'.

You are really just coming across at this point, regardless of your intent, as a rules-lawyer determined to be 'right' and for the game company to have 'failed' and take 'blame' ... not a 'fact finder'.

So, DE is not good at communicating things clearly in your opinion, I get it, I have people on my teams that are not good at that, it happens, not every company has perfect people in all positions.

This all comes down to what they called it - how they labeled/presented a video and while words do have meanings, you are simply mking a semantic argument based on your interpretation of the phrase 'gameplay demo'...

We all live in our own personal delusion according to Zen philosophy, I am well aware of all of us living in our own fantasies, I find it fascinating.

I just don't get all the anger.

[SneakyErvin]

4 hours ago, Padre_Akais said:

You are back to semantics...

Under-delivered is Under-delivered. This is because the deliverable has not been entirely delivered (yet)... And you can't under-deliver without over-promising. Fact.

Things that were shown in the gameplay demo do not exist in game. Fact.

If it is not in game then it has not been delivered. Fact.

In this instance, the gameplay video features content and mechanics that do not exist in the live game...That's under-delivered.

You can assert that it's intentional, incidental, or accidental and the fact will remain that it still isn't delivered.

Likewise, the fact will continue to be that it is Under-delivered until it has been implemented— As such, it will remain Under-delivered until then.

You can continue to spin your way around that fact as much as you want and the only thing I can do is suggest you do is consider a career at Fox News.

I have italicized the point you keep having trouble grasping...How do I know you have trouble grasping the point?

Right here:

There is no vast difference—It is either in the game or it is not. That difference is binary.

What makes the difference vast to you is the semantics you apply to it.

I'm not applying semantics. If it was a gameplay demo then the files, script, and mechanics already exist and have not (or as you say, "Not yet") been implemented. Under-delivered.

If it is not a gameplay demo then it should not have been named one to begin with...Aspirational, Dishonest, and Under-delivered.

I don't really give a crap which one it is because the end result doesn't change from being currently Under-delivered.

Let me put it in a manner you might grasp more easily...

 I tell you I am going to give you 5 plat but only give you 3 plat instead.

Did I:

1. Deliver on my promise.
2. Under-deliver on my promise.
3. Over-deliver on my promise.
4. I just didn't have it all right then and will come back and give the the rest later.

As I said, it isnt underdelivered based on the video, because nothing there was specifically stated to be part of one single release. It can take them 2 years to get everything in that video into a system and it would not be underdelivered based on it eitherway. They did underdeliver based on their written info, but that is purely because they had an early estimated time in 2020.

You however have been ranting about underdelivery since the first playable RJ iteration, based on a video you watched that made no promises.

You clearly also have little grasp when it comes to the reality of game development. Whatever you see in a barebones video 6 months ahead of time will have changes made to it prior to release. If you are going to go around and take such videos as promises of whats to come you will be forever disappointed when it comes to gaming. Your comprehension of words being used such as "gameplay demo" are lacking. A gameplay demo shown in a video does not equal what you experience in a playable demo of something. The former thing can mean several things, from early concept stages to day before release showing. The other is specifically a part of what you will experience in a game. The two are not interchangable.

The plat analogy would only apply if we had actually gotten a strict release date and a point per point summary of exactly what we'll get, which we havent. We still dont know if all of the content in the video will be part of phase 3, we've never been promised all of it, we just expected it based on a video showing off their intent and idea as a whole. It is really our own hype and expectations that make us think all of it will be mixed together in the end.

[Rakosta_Kai]

4 hours ago, Zimzala said:

snip

Spoiler

 

You make a ton of claims and have literally nothing but your speculation tent-poling it to support them.

You don't need to supply them to what I've said... Because I have simply posted a fact.

I don't require your agreement with it and don't care if the fact bothers you.

What you assume is anger is the brevity of having already said these things to you multiple times.

The only semantics would be in calling it a mock-up.

What you are literally asserting is that due to some level of ineptitude on DEs part, we shouldn't consider what we saw as incoming content but instead the content they aspire to release.

Mere months after Bioware did the same thing with Anthem and got hammered for it?

OK.

 

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

As I said, it isnt underdelivered based on the video, because nothing there was specifically stated to be part of one single release. It can take them 2 years to get everything in that video into a system and it would not be underdelivered based on it eitherway. They did underdeliver based on their written info, but that is purely because they had an early estimated time in 2020.

Since you have admitted yourself that it's not delivered I'm not sure what the additional discussion is for in this case.

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

You however have been ranting about underdelivery since the first playable RJ iteration, based on a video you watched that made no promises.

Actually no...I asked about exploration because I thought it had exploration.

It didn't... I was told no such thing was promised. Confirmed that. Said thank you. Freely admitted my own fault and noted that I had hoped it would because I didn't see much  re-playability in the content otherwise... And kept it moving for the most part. Then the thread got merged.

...You haven't seen me say crap about RJ since.

The difference in instances is that I am not freely admitting fault here because I simply am not at fault.

But kudos to you for inventing a convenient narrative that fit your delusion in the first place and then researching to find anything that would fit the narrative you wanted to build.

Since you can't bull-doze the facts you attack the credibility of the person who makes mention of it instead... You sure you don't want to apply over at Fox?

 

But I tell you what...You link my "rant" and I can link 5 instances of you white-knighting. Heck, haven't even looked but I'll bet I can find at least that many in the last 6 months... because you've been doing it for years now.

How about it? I mean... since the intent here was confirming credentials and all. Should we try that out?

My post on the matter will make me look like a disappointed player who expected more and your posts will make you look like a rabid kook.

You let me know, ok?

 

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

You clearly also have little grasp when it comes to the reality of game development. Whatever you see in a barebones video 6 months ahead of time will have changes made to it prior to release. If you are going to go around and take such videos as promises of whats to come you will be forever disappointed when it comes to gaming. Your comprehension of words being used such as "gameplay demo" are lacking. A gameplay demo shown in a video does not equal what you experience in a playable demo of something. The former thing can mean several things, from early concept stages to day before release showing. The other is specifically a part of what you will experience in a game. The two are not interchangable.

Yeah, it's probably a bit small but this doesn't need a whole bunch...

If it doesn't exist... you can't interact with it.

If it does exist... you can.

The content in question was interacted with.

The rest is project management.

There is no reality of project management you can speak to that undercuts the notion that something that if existed in a gameplay demo as a highspot it should be featured in the released product if the scripts, and files already existed in the game currently.

So, They were either being honest and under-delivered...or they were being dishonest and under-delivered.

Either way? It's a missed deliverable.

...That's under-delivered.

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

The plat analogy would only apply if we had actually gotten a strict release date and a point per point summary of exactly what we'll get, which we havent. We still dont know if all of the content in the video will be part of phase 3, we've never been promised all of it, we just expected it based on a video showing off their intent and idea as a whole. It is really our own hype and expectations that make us think all of it will be mixed together in the end.

Leave it to you to spend three lines on a question that only took 1 character.

This is because the answer, as binary as it is, doesn't flatter your stance.

...Hence the spin.

 

Edited April 8, 2020 by Padre_Akais