Maxim_M_Payne Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 When I first made this post, I tried to be patient and appeal to flattery. I went on about how Aksomati Prime were "clever" and "gorgeous". Like Melee 3.0, I decided to give it a fair chance before I decided it was an ugly letdown. I gave it a chance, and sadly, my original claims just aren't true. For every single detail that may match the look of default Aksomati, three other random bits-and-bobs that destroy the elegance are slapped on Akso Prime's model. It's cluttered, it's way too huge, and it looks like I'm wielding two art-deco rotary telephones far more than the awesome Orokin originals of my favorite akimbo pistols. I'm not saying that the art team is bad, or that the developers won't listen. There are dozens of talented painters, modellers, sculptors, renderers, and riggers involved in the art and animation team; and you all do fine work, even with the recently-added glowing sneeze-cloud of particle VFX over everything largely obscuring that hard work you all did from our view as the players. This art team is talented, does outstanding work, and I don't think badly of any of you for a second. But you can do better. And, with all due respect, Aksomati are my favorite pistols, and I waited so very long for their Prime to come out; and combined with the two prior factors, I am deeply saddened to say that Akso Prime are just plain hideous. I'm genuinely disappointed. They look clunky, clay-like, and slapped-together. It's a very sad counterpoint to what I always visualized the future holding in my head. Akso Prime is neither sleek nor refined; neither are they in "their ultimate manifestation" nor "precisely refined". Refinement would mean echoing the compact shape, sleek forms, and gorgeous textures of their non-Prime model, with a bit of added Orokin filigree; as with Akvasto, Akjagara, Aklex, and Akstiletto Prime, which all succeeded at that basic goal. I refuse to give up on my favorite pistols any more than melee combat. Just as I plan to flood the (conspicuously, no longer pinned) "Melee 3.0: Phase 2 - Techniques" thread with GIFS comparing what we once had to the flailing mess of the new Stances; so too am I going to keep posting until I get the Aksomati Prime I deserve. The Supreme Soma set is my absolute favorite "family" of weapons; and by all accounts, the Prime forms of weapons that belong to a matching set should not only echo each other's design, but also that of their default forms. The first and foremost problem: the things are stupidly huge. I'm talking hairdryers with triggers. The Aksomati are explicitly described in their own Codex description as "compacted" and "elegant". Those words definitely describe default Aksomati; but they are the exact visual inverse of what I'd describe the Prime as. Spoiler These babies look cool, nimble, and stylish. They aren't over-busy, there aren't any random wingdings sticking out at opposing angles, and even the non-metallic regions are gorgeous; bearing a shiny-but-not-greasy-looking hard carapace like a sports car or beetle shell. These are the Ferarris of guns, and they were my favorite for a reason. Spoiler These are swollen like the forehead of Bill Skarsgard's interpretation of Pennywise. These are the children that resulted from a tryst between a banana, a boomerang, a corded phone, and thirteen rejected BIONICLE injection moulds for a bad guy's weapon. The model itself can't seem to decide which overall shape it wants in addition to its grotesque gigantism; and instead of that slick waxed-car/bug-shell look of the non-Prime, Akso Prime's non-metallic regions are a flat, doughy plastic with no sheen or differentiation other than a few divots and seams. A vehicle metaphor isn't even applicable to these. Those South Korea-manufactured cars that are a little cube with wheels have more coherent of an aesthetic than this. These are not what Akso Prime should look like, they are not what my 3.0x crit-multiplier-loving self awaited for so long, and they can be improved upon visually so, very, very much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxim_M_Payne Posted May 11, 2020 Author Share Posted May 11, 2020 Now for the meat of the post: Further elaborating on my opening post, you may think "Dude, don't be whiny, I'm sure the other Prime dual secondaries are slightly smaller or larger than their base model"; and unfortunately, that simply isn't the case. Whatever details they may add, they usually fall with in the same overall shape and proportions of their "modern" form in-setting. Even Akbronco Prime's seeming growth is due to the fact the three barrels are mounted on a rotary disk, instead of being stationary and on one grip. The single set of dual pistols that are just as jarring to look at as Aksomati Prime are Akbolto Prime; and that's not a case of their details making no sense or them being too big, so much as that Boltor Prime should be updated to have similar glowing "petals" of energy on its spikes, so that they both look consistent and like part of the same weapon set, because they are. Spoiler The iconic Impact-damage-specialist pistols in their natural state. Spoiler Akbronco Prime. The added filigree to the grips and the aforementioned spinning disk the triple-barrel is mounted on make them slightly larger, but most of that additional model size is negative space. The massive oversized-ness of Akso Prime is, by contrast and quite regrettably, pure solid gun. Spoiler Akjagara, looking sleek and assymetrical, if somewhat dangerous to hold; the bundle is called "Razor Gunplay" for a reason. Spoiler Akjagara Prime keep that asymmetry and grace; and they still have the rectangular, double-barreled overall shape with lopsided bayonet blades. Again, notice the vital fact that these actually look like the Orokin original of the non-Prime dual pistols, and that none of them are inconsistent in the materials and textures of their model. Spoiler Aklex are functionally small, compact rectangles with triggers, and that makes perfect sense; they were modeled off guns like the infamous Glock, and like it they are meant to be hard hitting, but they also share its weakness of massive recoil. They may not be subtle, but they do have an elegance of shape and aren't too visually busy. Spoiler Aklex Prime are slightly longer and have added Orokin bling, but they are still clearly and recognizably the same guns, without any major difference in shapes and forms (in this case, having no form outside of "brick, but a cool brick"). Spoiler Akstiletto are bizarrely-shaped but aesthetically valid guns we all know; a narrow rectangular chassis and barrel, combined with opposingly recurved magazines and grips that make it look a bit like a tilde symbol through a lowercase "L". These are, indeed, as advertised on their Prime, "Stylish, discreet, and accurate." Spoiler Akstiletto Prime aren't drastically larger than their descendants, and like Akbronco their additions are largely negative space in the form of Orokin filigree connecting the grip to the chassis of the gun, alongside a crest rising up to hold the magazines in place. The triggers and butt of the guns are the same overall size they were, even if the shapes are slightly different, and you can still tell immediately these are the original models of the same akimbo pistols. These are how Prime weapon-designs should work, with Cernos Prime being another excellent example. Just as that bow retained its "antlers" theme as a Prime, Akstiletto Prime remain, at their core, rectangles with a tilde symbol going through them. Spoiler Other than an apparent lack of any hammers, Akvasto are the exact design you'd expect when you hear the term "space revolver". They are a clear and compact sci-fi spin on the iconic Western-genre six-shooters; and far more devastingly powerful. Spoiler Again, Akvasto Prime are very close to their default model in size, and the added details enhance the elegance instead of detracting from it; such as how the drum of the revolvers now attenuates into a spiked "star" like a sheriff's badge. These are rootin', tootin', and Grineer shootin', and they embody the phrase "space cowboy". They are consistent with their default selves and don't radically depart from the "modern" weapon's design. Finally, we come to our stars. Well, the first pair of pistols are stars. The second pair are a monumental disappointment, like my estranged child if I were a father and not a player. Spoiler Aksomati are elegant and sleek, and the only protruding detail is the iconic extended magazine; these are, after all, machine pistols. The handle isn't drastically more massive than a frame's hand, and everything has a coherent, engraved, winged aesthetic. Spoiler Aksomati Prime are literally twice as bloody long as a frame's hand, and that's just the grips. They are as tall as Chroma Prime's torso and thicker than Ivara Prime's forearms. The form language of the physical shapes in Aksomati Prime's model isn't a language at all; it's a form argument. Part of it wants to be a plant, part of it wants to be spiky, part of it wants to consist of metal loop-de-loops, and very little of it actually resembles the gun its supposed to be the coveted original-manufacture design of. Aksomati Prime are inexplicable super-soakers of dual pistols; and they look like something quick-crafted of poorer manufacture that a shady Corpus dealer slapped the threadbare exaggeration of the actual Akso's design over. Did I mention these are my favorite dual pistols, and that I waited so long for a Prime of them to come out; and that it breaks my heart these have only a vague and horridly-amiss resemblance to both default Aksomati or to Soma Prime? Again, if the Primes are part of the same weapon set in their modern forms, they should look like each other in their original forms for the sake of lore consistency and FashionFrame TM. Aksomati Prime's current look does not meet either of those requirements. It's an oversized mess that looks at war with itself; and it tries far too hard to look like a flower despite the fact that A) for fashion's sake, no Prime weapon model should ever be styled after a single specific frame and B) Ivara Prime isn't floral-themed, she's a jellyfish. A jellyfish we can't even fully customize, and these pistols look especially ugly in the far-smaller-than-the-guns-themself hands of her model. The art team is skilled and hardworking, and I don't doubt your talent. But my favorite pistols deserve better than this, you can all do better than this, and it really feels like nobody even tried with their design; it's more like you all got so exhausted that you shoved it by the wayside and slapped it together last-minute, instead of taking a deserved break and waiting until you guys had a quality design. These should look closer in design to both their default form and to Soma Prime, and right now they look like a third-world offbrand of the vague idea of pistols that were themed after Saryn; and not like what Aksomati's original form should recall. This is the polar opposite of "elegant" or "their ultimate manifestation"; and I'm going to go into detail about how sad this makes me. I used Captura. I increased FOV to zoom in on what's missing, and what's added-in when it shouldn't be. Comparison of detail to detail; and spoiler alert, the details of Aksomati Prime don't even match up to the OG that well. Spoiler A unified and beautiful overall design with a delightful newly-waxed-car sheen to the non-metallic regions; versus a cluttered mess that's 3/4 beat-up, dirty plastic. Spoiler Aksomati's magazines are metallic all the way through, have energy details both upon and below the trapezoidal "teeth", possess a downward-pointing claw shape at each end, and have a pleasant set of corrugations on their front. Aksomati Prime's magazines have both the "teeth" and "claw" pointed the reverse direction of default, the energy details are cruder, the material is 1/4 metallic at best, and both the back and front side of the magazine have a bad case of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greeble on par with a Star Destroyer. I love Star Wars, but that's not a compliment. Details should make sense and actually have a point; random mushing and delineating of textures does not do that. The corrugations on the default Aksomati's magazines would let internal mechanisms move them through the gun by gripping those divots, the lines on Akso Prime's magazines are added for the sake of faking complexity. They detract from the look of the guns, they don't improve it. Spoiler Once a magazine has been discarded during reload animations, Aksomati has a clear, actually-modeled hole that the magazine rested in, at both the top and bottom of the gun. Aksomati Prime apparently sucks its magazines in and out of a secret dimensional doorway; nobody bothered to model a similar hole and the magazines just clip through solid space. Spoiler The butt of Aksomati's grip has gorgeous detailing to the metal and an ergonomic, just-right shape that would be comfortable for a humanoid hand, whether or not that hand belongs to one's real body. A Tenno could comfortably carry these around for hours. Aksomati Prime is a brutal, flat rectangle covered in equally rectangular ridges without the continued metallic detailing, and this rectangular spot with the energy lines is both added in out of nowhere compared to default as well as suspiciously similar to the shape on each of Wukong Prime's triceps. Suspicously close to re-used assets, there. These look as uncomfortable as they would be to lug around, and did I mention how stupidly huge they are? Sleek, my foot. Spoiler The barrels of Aksomati emerge like the head of a bird of prey from two badass, swooping wings of metal; and these decorations do not obscure one's view when in ironsights. The barrels of Aksomati Prime erupt in an unpleasantly anus-like fashion from what resembles the noodle-legged rear-end of a flower monster. Why would the crests be changed to these? The sharpened dual wings wings were infinitely cooler. As you can also probably see from how they obscure Wukong's face, those accursed flower-butts block portions of the screen when aiming, in the exact same hair-pulling fashion as Artemis Bow Prime's needless side projections. Also, take note of how the needless energy glow has been added inside the barrel, despite the facts that Soma Prime has no such light, and that the Supreme Soma set guns fire bullets, not lasers. It needs to go, and it only worsens that sphincter-like visual. Spoiler Aksomati can be distinguished and visually interpreted even from above or at high speeds; because they have a cohesive design with an overall theme. They are shining eagles, or hot rods. They are pistols you actually want. Again, notice how there's actually a modeled-in bore to the magazine spot, not a place they magically clip through. By contrast, if you saw someone quick-draw Aksomati Prime from a holster; you'd be disoriented by its weird flower crests and 1400 wrinkle lines on everything, and probably wondering what on earth the character wielding them was actually armed with. Far too much is going on, and the details that should be there are largely removed. Lovely. Did I mention how there's no hole for their magazines to be stored in from the top, either? Aksomati Prime has literally no way to load or remove ammo. Half-baked. Spoiler Aksomati also visually "read" with a clear overall silouhette even from below; and there's no needless fluff or weirdness. The small, concave handguards have two pleasant and clear segmentations that further enhance the fancy-car vibe of its look. Viewed from below, Aksomati Prime has yet more greebling of its metal and doughy, battered plastic; and the the sad, sagging nipples of half-metal that it has for handguards droop down like an intestinal hernia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmegaVoid Posted May 12, 2020 Share Posted May 12, 2020 With all due respect, Aksomati Prime look great. 😛 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxim_M_Payne Posted May 12, 2020 Author Share Posted May 12, 2020 Please don't start the same passive-aggressive statements as that dude on the "Revert Wise Razor" thread. These guns look the way Melee 3.0 feels to use; and suffice to say that I don't find either very fun. You like these oversized, flower-with-nipple-rings monstrosities, you are free to actually enjoy the design. But I think they look ridiculous, and this is not remotely what I hoped for. Let's split the difference: like DE implemented with the old, broken-animations-having Helminth Charger, DE keeps the current look as a permanent skin you can get for a meager sum of credits, and you can apply if you honestly preferred this look. At the same time, somebody gives this weapon a remodel so that our "sLeEk" machine pistols aren't half the size of the state of Texas and actually look stylish. These are too large for literally every Warframe's hands. Chroma Prime's inch-thick claw-fingers look small gripping these glorified toasters with barrels. I am not accepting that. TL;DR: DE keeps the current look as a for-credits skin, like "Degenerate Helminth Charger pattern"; so you can still have them look like this if you prefer, but simultaneously; somebody ought to make a new model for them that's actually proportionate and has a coherent aesthetic, one in line with both their default shape and the aesthetic of Soma Prime instead of matching neither. Default Aksomati are two swooping birds of prey and they look great. Aksomati Prime are a pair of flowers that had a tryst with a Hot Wheels track, who then had a one-night-stand with an LED flashlight, who then donated sperm to a city inhabited by Star Wars ship props. It's visually at war with itself, it shouldn't contain less metal than the design of its normal form, and it doesn't fit with Soma Prime. Other details that really, really bother me; and honestly add to the visual incoherency: Spoiler Default Aksomati have a curved, if somewhat geometric trigger. You can comfortably use that trigger, and if anything, the single grounds for improvement is to remove those hard corners and turn it into a full curve. Aksomati Prime have a flat, uncomfortable switch rather than a trigger, with a sharp right angle at the very end, all the better to dig into your finger flesh with. You would expect the Prime of these pistols to have a fully-curved and therefore more comfortable metal arc for a trigger, but apparently not. Default Aksomati have a solid and ergonomic grip that accounts for the slightly-wider-at-the-bottom-than-it-is-at-the-top shape of a humanoid palm; quite literally the most important design aspect of a comfortable grip/hilt/handle on just about anything we make for our use. Have any of you ever, for example, seen a gym barbell with a bunch of holes in the central metal cylinder, let alone one that's a rectangular prism in shape? There are very good reasons we don't make them that way. Aksomati Prime have an inexplicable and highly useless hollow in the grip, which not only makes the already rectangular-rather-than-rounded grip even more painful to grasp if you were to make an actual, physical prop of this; it also contributes to fragility and makes the user's hold on the weapon even less stable. Negative spaces in the part of an object you hold onto are a big no-no. To say nothing of how that prong in the hollow space would hook right into your hand and snag your skin; so as a whole, OUCH. Default Aksomati have a compact and close-to-the-hand trigger guard that actually would protect the hand grasping the guns; and with its concave shape that trigger guard avoids adding excess mass or a vulnerable set of Warframe fingers for a sharp-shot Grineer Ballista to blast off. Aksomati Prime have a "trigger guard" that is so huge, sagging, convex, and open-space-filled it defeats the entire purpose of having a trigger guard at all. This wouldn't guard the fingers, it adds an enormous excess of weight to the pistols for a pointless decoration that doesn't even look particularly good, and it makes the weapon even more awkward to grip, let alone to actually holster. That drooping metal hoop is the kind of thing a Corpus lord with an Orokin cultural fetish would add to his bodyguard's guns, then have the audacity to be surprised when they find it tiring to fire their dual pistols for more than a few seconds. Spoiler The actual magazines of both versions are symmetrical, but when shed during a reload, numerous nagging difference become evident. Default Aksomati's magazines are metal all the way through, which is honestly better-looking; and part of the beauty of the Supreme Soma Set's aesthetic in their default forms. It has corrugations on the concave side of the magazines that the inner mechanisms of the pistols can clearly grip to move it through the gun receiver. It has dots of energy detaliing on the concave side of the magazines that sit above the trapezoidal-pyramids that are the inner "teeth"; and if you compare the two images, you will notice that on default Aksomati the teeth taper and point toward the concave side and the claw-shapes point toward the convex side. The energy detailing of the teeth themselves is a rectangle at the tip of the shape. There's also a smaller inner hook to the claw-shape that presumably aids the Aksomati in ratcheting the magazines along the inner mechanism in conjunction with the corrugations. Aksomati Prime's magazines are metal in less than a third of the shape; a thread-bare rim of shininess slapped onto greebled plastic. Just as the main gun lacks the clear hole for the magazine to pass through of Default Aksomati (Aksomati Prime, apparently, just magically clips its parts through its other parts); the concave side of the magazines has no corrugations at all, and no way for any internal mechanism to actually move it through the gun as part of their dynamic model. The energy dots above the pyramid teeth found along the convex side of the magazines are missing altogether, and the energy rectangles of the teeth are inexplicably in the base of the pyramid shapes instead of the tip of them. As if to further spite visual consistency, the magazines' teeth point and taper toward the convex side, and the claw-shapes point toward the convex side. The magazines of Aksomati Prime are literally backwards from Default Aksomati. And as one final inconsistency, the claw-shapes have no inner hook; so combined with the lack of corrugations, there is no way in Hell that Aksomati Prime could actually grip the magazine and ratchet it along with its inner mechanisms, even if anybody had even bothered to model a hole and interior for Aksomati Prime in the first place. Which, apparently, nobody did, see above in the thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgabor Posted May 15, 2020 Share Posted May 15, 2020 The plastic look also bothered me since it's supposed to be a crit focused precision weapon, i would have expected more metallics if not a completely metallic look. My Akstiletto Prime looks way better in comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorSoundwave Posted May 15, 2020 Share Posted May 15, 2020 I know how you feel. A lot of the newer Primes seem lower quality somehow. Notice how older Prime's like loki have really strong textures that look real. Good texturing makes it look like there are more physical details than there actually are. All of those older Prime weapons you showed look like they are made of different materials and built. Akstilletto looks like it is make is a polished ceramic with gold tooled onto it and all the little groves and lines look real. But with a lot of newer Primes like Aksomati, it looks like it was carved from one single piece of material and all the details and material changes were painted on. Or compare Tigris Prime to the New Corinth Prime. Tigris Prime looks dense and realistic while Corinth Prime looks like it is one object with all the details and colors painted onto it. This creates the feeling of it almost being hollow. All the Primes since Wukong Prime Access, including Wukong Prime Access, seem different. I feel like DE changed how they build Primes. I don't know exactly what happened but the texture quality has dropped. If you take a close look at Wukong Prime's model the metalic areas on his back don't look like pieces of actual gold added onto him, it looks like gold paint. Textures seem more flat and less convincing nowadays. Another problem is that a lot of new Prime weapons and accessories look too much like their respective Prime Warframe. Older Prime Access weapons and accessories had a more generalized Orokin theme to them. Nova Prime Access, for example, came with Vasto and Soma Prime. Did they look like Nova Prime? No, they didn't. But newer Prime Access packs like Equinox Prime or Ivara Prime came with Prime weapons and accessories that look like they were grafted from the Prime Warframe. This is not OK and I wish DE would stop doing this. It's creating the feeling of weapons and accessories that look fancy with Prime bits but aren't truly Prime. I want Prime gear, not fancy skins with Gold bits. DE seems to think that it's just gold metallics that makes a Prime, but in reality it's the whole of the design. I want quality like what we got with Vauban Prime Access. A nice crisp looking Prime with two weapons that look like they came from an Orokin armory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proscriptor Posted May 15, 2020 Share Posted May 15, 2020 i agree with op. if something can be done to make the model a bit slimmer and more graceful, to make the front "cowl" thinner, and to texture in the corrugated edge on the magazine, that would be great. basically anything that would bring it closer to the appearance of soma prime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxim_M_Payne Posted June 3, 2020 Author Share Posted June 3, 2020 Aksomati are supposed to be sleek and cool-looking, and the defaults were (and as long as the Primes look like this, they still are) my favorite dual pistols. To use more car metaphors despite how boring I find real-world cars: We were promised a Mustang, and instead we received a beaten-down 1930s Wagon with its chassis crudely modded into an unauthorized vague floral motif, and it's rear-view mirrors (I'M TALKING ABOUT TRYING TO AIM THESE ACCURSED THINGS) utterly obscured by the aforementioned crappy flower mod. Aksomati Prime shouldn't be styled after Ivara Prime. They arguably, even in this bizarre state, failed to be modeled after Ivara Prime in the first place. She's based off a combination of Jellyfish, Crinoids, and Sea Angels; they, as guns, are vague, blobby, half-baked flower-anus things that look like a rejected rough draft of a gun for Saryn. Almost nothing ties them into either their default design, or belonging to the same weapon set as Soma Prime; and they are the polar opposite of refined or sleek. Also you know what else really, really bothers me? Default Aksomati have a smooth, rounded stock without any weird projections or pointless bars. Aksomati Prime add a long bar to the stock for no apparent reason except to emulate a few real-world machine pistols that have a bar like that, but there's two major problems with that. 1. That bar adds a detail that clutters the base model compared to the default, as opposed to enhancing and echoing it. Primes should be elegant, and what's more, as said several times previously; they should be consistent not just with their default selves, but with the default and Prime model of their accompanying guns in the same weapon set. So far only Akjagara Prime and Tigris Prime have managed this; I do not want Aksomati ending up like Akbolto Prime, with its glowing petal details that Boltor still lacks; when they could have at least patched those energy-petals into Boltor Prime's design for consistency. 2. In the real-world machine pistols that have a bar projecting out the back like that, it's a brace. It is meant to be rigid, and to press against a part of the body like the chest or the armpit so the recoil doesn't knock you on your buttocks. But it isn't a rigid bar in Aksomati Prime's model. As a matter of fact, it retracts every single time a bullet fires. Spoiler It therefore doesn't serve any purpose, and it makes absolutely no sense for it to be in the design. Aksomati Prime should have the same rounded, smooth rear as their descendants, and not the pointless psuedo-brace with a strange nipple-like lump above it. And just to reaffirm that they are far too big for pretty much anyone's hand, Warframes or otherwise, here's how bloated and swollen they look in a Rescue mission hostage's hands. Spoiler That is Nerf squirt-gun big. That is hair-dryer-with-triggers-welded-on big. They have got to weigh 11 lbs (5 kg) each, and with that kind of mass it really rather defeats the purpose of "sleek" and discrete pistols. Akso Prime would be more effective as claw hammers, or a very bizarre and highly unsafe boomerang. Disclaimer: I was frustrated when I crudely drew this, and undoubtedly the actual art team could do better if they are willing to give these guns the sleekness they deserve; but it is a rough idea of the kind of form language I expected from the Prime of such a pretty Secondary weapon, versus what we actually got. Further Disclaimer: Legit, I am... ...not a good artist. This bothers me so much I scribbled something out anyway. Spoiler And also, I sincerely apologize for all and any snark/rudeness on this drawing. You're all great artists, it's just that this visual direction just doesn't really fit Aksomati. It's got a bladed, winged bird-of-prey-type aesthetic; and the Prime doesn't really carry over any of that design coherence visually. Primes are supposed to be the predecessors of our "modern" Tenno weapons in-game, all I ask is that they at least look like something that clearly shows ancestry to our weaker non-prime versions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minatos_Gordem Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 The least DE could do is allow us to use the skin of other variations of the weapons we already owned. Such as converting the Paris Prime into normal Paris, Aksomati Prime to Aksomati, etc. It shouldn't be that hard to do since we are already allowed to do that for warframes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightmareT12 Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 5 hours ago, Minatos_Gordem said: It shouldn't be that hard to do since we are already allowed to do that for warframes. We're able to do this with Warframes because it's a bug they decided not to fix and keep, not because it's a feature they added. Just FYI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Famecans Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 Spoiler I really like this kit, it's a very imperial design in the game, elegant and the primed version looks more imposing though ... Tigris Prime doesn't match Redeemer and Akjagara Prime, redeemer and akjagara prime are beautiful and are matching but tigris prime are beautiful looks sturdy without a blade in the front what I mean is that the three prime guns are beautiful but the design is not as combined as the old razor gunplay kit now talking about aksomat prime? I expected a beautiful all-metal body similar to somma prime completely metallic, serious design without many dull parts Spoiler even non-primed aksomati manages to look prime Spoiler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxim_M_Payne Posted June 5, 2020 Author Share Posted June 5, 2020 I want Akso Prime to look sleek, compact, and as stylish as their default versions in the first place; it's the current look that should be left as the alternate, bought-from-market-for-credits model, like was done with Degenerate Helminth. That way, we've got visual and lore consistency alongside style; but simultaneously, those who honestly preferred the current model for Aksomati Prime can still have it. I'm just not one of those people that prefers the current look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxim_M_Payne Posted June 11, 2020 Author Share Posted June 11, 2020 I think I just noticed another thing that bothers me, but I can't confirm the silhouette being similar until I examine in game. The Aksomati Prime models look a bit like they were hastily adapted from Akzani; but I can't tell for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xylena_Lazarow Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 Counterpoint: I think Aksomati Prime is pretty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxim_M_Payne Posted June 11, 2020 Author Share Posted June 11, 2020 5 hours ago, Xylena_Lazarow said: Counterpoint: I think Aksomati Prime is pretty. Again, I've already said that they can keep the current model as a purchaseable option for those that truly want it; the same way they kept Degenerate Helminth in-game, because a few players actually enjoyed having a Charger with a broken animation skeleton instead of an adorable-revolting coral dog with a cluster of tentacle polyps for tails. Personally, I was hoping for better than these over-sized wall-hangers; and they aren't sleek enough to fit that critical-pistol stat focus. We went from sleek style with a slick shell and gorgeous metallic regions to huge, drooping, and plastic-like hair dryers with triggers. These don't look like they should be the ancestors of something so compact. They don't look convenient, lightweight, or elegant. They don't look that pretty or that much like Aksomati. Enough styling weapons after a specific frame, time to go back to actually having a nicely generalized Orokin aesthetic on Primes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xylena_Lazarow Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 45 minutes ago, Maxim_M_Payne said: Personally, I was hoping for better than these over-sized wall-hangers; and they aren't sleek enough to fit that critical-pistol stat focus. We went from sleek style with a slick shell and gorgeous metallic regions to huge, drooping, and plastic-like hair dryers with triggers. Personally, I love that we got these huge F-off machine guns, instead of the usual dainty pea shooters. The weird bulky metal casing is no doubt responsible for reducing recoil enough to be wielded with only one cybernetic mutant hand! The aesthetic is almost pre-Corpus, if you will, but of course with the shiny, shiny Orokin gilding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxim_M_Payne Posted June 14, 2020 Author Share Posted June 14, 2020 My entire point is that they aren't remotely Orokin-or-Tenno-looking enough; and that a clunky, enormous, plastic-like "pre-Corpus" aesthetic isn't fitting for Aksomati to have. There should be a hard sleek shell for the non-metallic regions with a faint beetle-like sheen; and the metallic regions should make up more of the gun than a series of drooping loops and pointless spikes. For example, metallics such as keeping the wings around the barrel that were precisely what made default Aksomati look cool and sleek, as opposed to replacing that stylish bit of flair with a huge and aim-obscuring flower-blob. Normal Aksomati are not "dainty peashooters", they also easily shred foes; and it's Soma that remains insultingly under-buffed as default or Prime. They are precisely the right size for the hands that wield them, which is usually the literal manufacturing goal of a single-handed gun; even if wielded in pairs. Machine pistols are not the same thing as machine guns. The word gun, despite its slang usage, linguistically originates from an informal name for strictly two-handed armaments that predated and/or were peers to muskets and early rifles. Pistol originates from a French term, and has always referred to a ranged weapon light enough to use in a singular hand if necessary, at the expense of aim and steadiness on the shooter's part. I think it therefore stands to reason that a pair of machine pistols should not be substantially, jarringly, taller and thicker than the assault rifle/machine gun they are supposed to accompany as part of a matching set; let alone when they don't even seem to share a design language with the "larger" gun. As an example, here's their comparative size if equipped together: Those dont look very much like compact, portable versions of Soma Prime to me. The game has plenty of, as you put it, "huge expletive-off machine guns"; take Twin Grakkatas, for example. But Aksomati is not one of those giant Secondaries that could break a man's wrist. It's two compact, bullet-spewing falcons ready to kick butt and take names. Its direct ancestor shouldn't be inexplicably ballooned to the same sort of proportion as Grakkatas or Staticor; comical oversized-ness is the mark of Grineer manufacture and over-compensating Corpus. Tenno and Orokin manufacture doesn't do big and boxy. It does sleek, sharp, ergonomic, and organic. Four qualities of design that aren't as present as they should be in Akso Prime's appearance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxim_M_Payne Posted June 14, 2020 Author Share Posted June 14, 2020 And as for my hunch about Akzani, it turns out that part of the reason Akso Prime's design lets me down is that it does indeed appear to be largely cribbed from their design instead of the design of normal Aksomati. Especially when, yet again, a Prime weapon should ideally resemble an archaic but elegant version of it's non-Prime model, seeing as tech has fallen so far in the lore of the setting; and that while cruel and tyrannical, the Orokin were also an overtly Baroque culture of narcissists obsessed with adding beauty to everything they owned. And what they owned includes the Tenno and our weapons. Here's some shared hallmarks, despite being ostensibly separate dual pistols: Inexplicably swelling in size toward their front ends, instead of being laterally compact all the way through? Having a projection on the stock that doesn't actually serve any purpose, even as a recoil brace? Check and check. Spoiler Spoiler No actual hole for ammo to enter and exit through, with magazines that magically clip through the whole giant brick of a gun? Check. Spoiler Spoiler Uncomfortable-to-use and/or utterly non-existent triggers? Check. Spoiler Spoiler (Wukong's fingers are now septic from compression injury going through that tiny hole.) Hairdryer-like shape, with uncomfortable, blocky grips much bigger than actually needed for a single hand? Flaring rectangular bit at the bottom of that overly-long, boxy grip that makes them even more hostile to a humanoid hand's grip? Check and check again. Spoiler Spoiler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxim_M_Payne Posted June 15, 2020 Author Share Posted June 15, 2020 The profile silouhette of the flower-blob-crest ... uh, thingy also bears a fishy resemblance to the one used on Akstiletto Prime; which comes across as just recycling the same schtick for a different set of Prime pistols. Why not just keep the metal barrel-wings? I fail to see how anybody would want to get rid of the barrel-wings. They looked far cooler. This is plainly visible with their UI icons in the Inventory screen: Spoiler Spoiler It's a bit of an odd coincedence that two vastly different Prime pistols should have the same porcelain-plastic look, and that they additionally should also both possess a backward-arcing front-end that a metal detail rises up in a counter-arc to connect into... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxim_M_Payne Posted June 23, 2020 Author Share Posted June 23, 2020 I am maintaining my position on this. With all due respect to the artists, my favorite pistols deserve better. Further cross-comparison of scale in relation to the Warframe's bodies' and the default weapon's model to follow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxim_M_Payne Posted June 26, 2020 Author Share Posted June 26, 2020 I'm not putting down the art team or modellers, but this was and still is a letdown to me. Another thing bothering me: Aksomati Prime just re-uses most of the design language we already saw in Akstiletto Prime. It's honestly a bit boring to just recycle a motif from an existing set of dual guns, and it completely throws away the things that make normal Aksomati look cool. I simply can't think of any good reason to change a cool, blade-winged, mostly-metallic set of pistols into a pair of mainly-plastic Diet Akstiletto Primes. Aksomati Prime honestly look more like the Grineer used some Seer-style reverse-engineering to add Orokin bits to Twim Gremlins than they look like the Aksomati. Akso and Akstiletto Prime, for example, both have a barrel-tip with a flaring set of top and bottom "lips": Spoiler Spoiler They both have a backward-curved... ...porcelain-plastic-crest-thingy(?) that connects to a metal arc: Spoiler Spoiler Both weapons have holes in the grips for no apparent reason. And unlike Astiletto Prime, Akso Prime doesn't even have the hole at the center of the handle, but gouged out of the back starting at about 2/3 of the way through the pistol handle, just for maximum akwardness: Spoiler Spoiler And perhaps most redundantly, both Primed Pistols have a convex handguard; even though normal Aksomati have a visibly and obviously concave handguard that curves inward and toward the hand. Which is, frankly, rather the entire point of a handguard; to block your vulnerable knuckles from attacks that might make you drop a bladed weapon or gun. Spoiler Spoiler M Mind you, I don't doubt that hours of work were still put into making the present design. Akso Prime clearly shows iteration and evolution of earlier ideas into a finalized gun-shape; the problem is that the aforementioned finalized shape just isn't visually coherent enough to the guns it's supposed to be the direct predecessor of. And it doesn't even slightly resemble Soma Prime, despite The Codex literally telling us that these are part of the same set of weapons. If the default designs resemble each other, why don't the Primes? And, admittedly, it does make me a bit sad that this design gives up most of the details that make default Akso look both distinct and cool; in order to play it safe by just retreading the design we already saw used for Prime Akstiletto. It isn't a flat-out duplication, but it definitely rhymes in form language; and the things Akso Prime should be mirroring in design are a mixture of its default self and Soma Prime. Neither are being echoed in the design of the pistols with the present model. You guys are sincerely, genuinely amazing, each and every one of you in the art and modelling teams; but you guys can do better work than this. Akso Prime isn't sleek. This doesn't look like the technological ancestor of my favorite sidearms; it's too big for pretty much any Frame's hand by several factors; and it's just far too visually busy; without any clear coherence even between its own different weapon parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxim_M_Payne Posted July 4, 2020 Author Share Posted July 4, 2020 I really, truly, don't mean to be rude or ungrateful in any way. But this is honestly still a significant visual disappointment, and the sleekness balanced with intricacy that I expected from the long-awaited Prime of my favorite Secondaries just isn't there. I'm actually going to cross compare details with Soma Prime now, because there just isn't enough that matches up. These weapons are part of the same set. The guns should look like they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxim_M_Payne Posted July 4, 2020 Author Share Posted July 4, 2020 Soma Prime remains a very good example of how a Prime gun can have a very complex, highly-intricate design; and yet nevertheless still go well with any Warframe the player equips, because it looks generically Orokin instead of trying (and failing) to match the unusual Cnidarian-inspired design of the Prime Warframe it came with. There's countless little details all over the gun, yes; but the key difference when comparing the designs of Soma Prime and Aksomati Prime is that Soma Prime has coherency to all those tiny details. The entire gun echoes a consistent design theme of rings, metal arcs, trapezoidal filigree, and agressive hook-shapes. The aesthetic is unified, not warring with itself and trying to be four different visual themes at once. Looking quite literally closer, it becomes even clearer how things don't match up. I sincerely, honestly, just wish more effort had been made to keep Aksomati Prime sleek and aesthetically cohesive with its accompanying assault rifle. They're part of the same set, lore-wise. Soma Prime's stock, trigger, and grip are all ergonomic, but decorated; the handle is clearly shaped to the wielder's hand, The hooks and rings continue through the form just as they do in the rest of the design, and there's the striking circular ring-within-ring within the negative space of the stock. You'd Expect: That Aksomati Prime would have the tiny, upward hook-shape just above that ring in the same spot where normal Aksomati has the back end of its receiver-holes; and that the already-rounded top of default Aksomati's stocks would be slightly hollowed-out to also have that ring-inside-of-a-metal-loop shape, but at more minute scale. Spoiler Instead: For no apparent reason, Aksomati Prime's stocks turn unpleasantly-shaped at the top in an odd plasticky spike; and in addition, an utterly useless bar that can't have any purpose sticks even further out the back end below them. The comfortable shape of normal Aksomati's grips becomes a harshly rectangular hooked-in-the-middle clothespin shape inimical to any hand shape in existence. Did I mention how that bar below the plastic-lumps literally has no purpose, because it retracts every time you fire a bullet, and by their very definition, gun-braces are stiff? And where we expect to have the small, very subtle-hooked shape, we instead have a giant arcing spike that unsuccessfully tries to echo the hooked-at-the-end-arc-shape of the bottom side of Soma Prime's Receiver. Despite being on the top of the pistols. The second arcing spikes are just as egregious; since Soma Prime has no such detail; the second forward arc on the bottom of the assault rifle is, you will notice, part of the stock. Moving onward to a close-up of one of the two sides of the hemicircular receiver on Soma Prime, you'll notice the aforementioned trapezoidal filigree that cradles the famous arcing magazine of Soma-family armanents. Take note of the fact that the trapezoidal filigree isn't wider than the barrel and stock of the gun, despite emerging from the sides of the receiver-arc. Notice how it is fairly thin and compact. You'd Expect: That the very bottom of Aksomati Prime's grips would have an equally-thin, tinier version of that trapezoidal filigree to either side of its magazines; located at the hole where the magazines emerge that you can clearly see in the above, sideways-titled screenshot. The space to do it is there, and again; the magazine is thinner than the gun. Spoiler Spoiler Instead: Aksomati Prime has the magazine cradled by a weird spiral-shape that doesn't match up remotely with the trapezoidal filigree. The magazines are also, quite unfortunately, literally as wide as the pistols' grips; which is also inconsistent with default Aksomati, and causes even further issues because it means the spiral-shapes are now even wider than the already-far-too-thick magazines, so those spirals protrude in awkward fashion a good two inches wider than the rest of the guns' handles. As mentioned above, both the magazine and the filigree should be thinner than the rest of the gun. Heading back out to a less extreme close-up, one will notice that the overall chassis shape of Soma Prime is both (A.) only very subtly varying in its overall thickness and (B.) that the overall body-shape is still elegant and Orokin-esque, with smooth tapers to its forms, like a top-of-the-line sports car. It consists of ellipticals upon ellipticals, and even the more rectangular components are still arced or rounded off in some fashion. You'd Expect: that Aksomati Prime would echo that smoothly-tapered shape and mostly-metallic construction; and that it would consist of similar hooked, arced, and elliptical shapes. Shapes that we see again and again in Orokin architecture and culture, just look at all these archways on the Lua Balcony Scene in my Captura background! It makes sense to have those shapes in the design of a Prime gun. Orokin and Tenno technology is all about introducing organic forms to the artificial and synthetic. Spoiler Instead: Aksomati Prime consists mostly of plastic-stuff with relatively few metallic regions; and instead of any sleek tapering to the form language, the design begins with that bizarre spiked back end and precedes to a harsh and gradual thickening of the guns' shape that only worsens once it flares even further out into the (aim-obscuring) flower-crests that inexplicably replaced default Aksomati's significantly-cooler-looking bird-wing-crests around the barrel. Finally, we come to Soma Prime's barrel; shown for clarity in both close-up profile and extreme frontal view. Notice how the very tip of the barrel has a notch in it, and in turn, the forked prongs of that notch; the bottom edge of the barrel's end continues a bit further than the top edge. In addition, the metal arc that the three points pass through to form the "nose" of the gun nicely echoes the same shapes along the receiver and stock of Soma Prime. Aesthetic coherency is present from the front to the back of the gun. Take note of how, though there are two further protrusions below the barrel-tip, both of them are shorter and thinner than the actual bore of the gun; so that they remain sleek, and don't overwhelm the design by being too thick of filigree and sticking out like sore thumbs. Observe that the bore is dark, simple, and nothing more than what it should be: a hole with rifling that a bullet passes through. Soma Prime isn't an energy weapon, it's ballistic; and I would like to point out that the same should be true of Aksomati Prime. You'd Expect: that Aksomati Prime would have the same forked-and-notched barrel tip; but that it would simultaneously not protrude as far as the barrel-tip of Soma Prime, since it's an assault rifle and Aksomati are assault pistols. It would also make logical sense to keep the awesome wing-shapes of default Aksomati's crests around the barrel (seriously, why did those get removed?); but give them some negative space to echo the hollows and arcs in Soma Prime's stock and barrel-tip-cresecent. And, as stated above, more than anything; it would follow suit that it has the same dark, non-glowing bore to the barrel as Soma Prime. Spoiler Spoiler Instead: Aksomati Prime replaces the far-cooler-looking and infinitely sleeker flattened wing-shaped crests with huge, aim-obscuring flowers. The bore of the barrels is gone, and the barrels' interiors glow with energy detailing; despite the fact that these are explicitly ballistic, bullet-using guns. The crests, additionally, are almost completely solid, other than the gaps in their "petals", only exacerbating the accuracy problem they present and making the silouhette seem clunkier; whereas the narrow and flattened wings of default Aksomati don't block aim any more than the crecent at the end of Soma Prime's barrel. TL;DR: The problem isn't that Aksomati Prime don't look complex. The problem is that their complexity isn't coherent, that all that bling doesn't have any overall theme, and as a whole it really, definitely, doesn't match either their default selves' or Soma Prime's form language. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)MrNishi Posted July 5, 2020 Share Posted July 5, 2020 On 2020-06-11 at 12:41 PM, Maxim_M_Payne said: Again, I've already said that they can keep the current model as a purchaseable option for those that truly want it; the same way they kept Degenerate Helminth in-game, because a few players actually enjoyed having a Charger with a broken animation skeleton instead of an adorable-revolting coral dog with a cluster of tentacle polyps for tails. ... I don't think they will do that with weapons: Old Ogris/Torid models...a variant of which is still used by Napalm Bombards. You know that Rectangular Projectile Launcher nice compact and looks like they stole armaments from the Corpus. Back to subject: At the very least DE could put in an Aksomati Conclave Skin so players can revert Aksomati Prime model to regular Aksomati. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxim_M_Payne Posted July 6, 2020 Author Share Posted July 6, 2020 I really, really am awful at art. But the present design actively avoids my expectations of the Prime so much that I just can't give up thinking about it. I really do feel like the hypothetical sleek Akso Prime I imagined getting would look like the first drawing I did in this thread; but with the wing-crests and barrel details looking like the further pass at imagining/drawing it that I drew today. What I hoped for was a mix of this: With these: More than any other detail, the bizarre decision to go with flowers makes no sense to me. Why change a perfectly awesome, highly-intimidating pair of wings around the pistols' barrels into flowers? Why not make them an even gnarlier pair of metal wings? That's literally what I was hoping for. That's what made sense! Cool dragon-ish wings to put Orokin writing on! For heaven's sake, it was a perfect (and missed) oppurtunity to have "SCREAMING EAGLE" or some similar phrase engraved upon the wing-crests. Aksomati aren't even a signature weapon of a Warframe. They're a generic pair of Tenno auto-pistols; it stands to reason that Aksomati Prime should also be generically Orokin-looking. And for that matter, on a related topic, whatever happened to actually putting words in Orokin script on Primes? Even Valkyr has a little of the diagonal alphabet, but using it seems to have fallen by the wayside for both Frames and Weapons in recent designs... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.