Dear DE. I understand why you changed Limbo + exodia contagion BUT. It did have consiquences.

[JmDaFuz]

Disclaimer: This post is not meant to rant or rage that DE took a toy away. I simply wish to highlight a discussion as i see it.

 

In a nutshell when it comes to edolons and condrix raids/other special enemies, One of the main reasons why this was a go to strategy was because the condrix and edolon is by design invulnerable to the cataclysm despite being Surrounded by it, making limbo unable to make use of his damage augment. With the new changes all those strategies have been rendered void and i feel quite sorry for the loss.

A little more consistency with the cataclysms effects would Therefore be appreciated as the strategy where as mentioned quite fun and is only rely useful on high health pool targets.

 

Sincerely a old time Limbo Main.

 

PS: Id love to see a trans-formative damage augment for stasis. CC traded for lighter CC + damage boost. Or just boost. But thats a dear santa wish 😛

Edited May 1, 2020 by JmDaFuz

[(XBOX)KayAitch]

13 hours ago, JmDaFuz said:

A little more consistency with the cataclysms effects would Therefore be appreciated as the strategy

I think this change was for consistency - he's supposed to be the incredibly annoying frame everyone hates.

Invulnerable wall, but you can't shoot out either, has its uses at very high level content with teams that know what they're doing, but even then most of the time you're going to want a frame that doesn't stop everyone else's guns from working.

But mostly you see Limbos popping Cataclysm over low level relic defence objectives, just to make sure it takes you 3x as long to mop up all the waves. Thanks pal, we really needed your help with these weak enemies 😐

I'd just rework Cataclysm so that if you roll you're out of it - you can shoot enemies and they can shoot you.

[TheFlameFlash]

They should as well have the sentient "rift immunity" resets like other immunities when using operator shedu umbra and paracises and maybe make it a full thing for all abilities and resetable

B4 i started using contagion in the event i used to go to the highest points in the tiles set and shot the condrix with tomb finger it was fine when sentient didn't adapt to rift  or jump high enough and glid and shoot (i rarely ever play a mission with out arcane consequence) 

[SenorClipClop]

Came here expecting some edgy salt. Instead found civility and reasonable ask. You have my upvote, Tenno.

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

I still insist that Limbo get a rework to be less obstructive to his team in general so people don't need to exploit gimmicks with him, as someone who has played Limbo of one of his mains since release. 

He used to be a powerful duelist that could choose his target and pull them into his realm with great risk and reward. He could still troll his team but it was far more manageable. It was a different game back then though. 

He became far more powerful, more uncontrollable, after his rework. Stasis was fixed to no longer destroy ally interaction in the rift but his 1 and 3 are impossible to use on a team if they're on the same half of the map. 

I think the most functional method of fixing him would just be to change rift interaction overall to no longer prevent damage across the plane but rather reduce damage enemies deal to allies in the opposite plane. So a rifted enemy deals less damage to frames that aren't in the rift and non rift enemies deal less to frames in the rift. Maybe 90% less damage. Stasis will still be the way to prevent damage completely from either end (blocking enemy bullets in or out) but might need duration balancing. Ally damage will not be reduced by this. His passive dodge might keep the normal immunity to opposite side so he still has full benefit and drawback so he has the utility but still needs to manage his abilities appropriately and leave the rift periodically. 

Cataclysm might be able to stay full damage immunity for everyone on both sides as well since it's a controllable position, but reduce its base range and remove the shrinkage. 

[Scar.brother.help.me]

I'd like rolling guard to activate only when you roll out of the rift.

[JmDaFuz]

14 minutes ago, Scar.brother.help.me said:

I'd like rolling guard to activate only when you roll out of the rift.

Ow would definetely streamline the experience. As for other wishes i wish i could turn off the rift portal. Handy enough sometimes though it annoyes people. Honnestly many of these fall under my dear santa list. xD 

[captainHalide]

On 2020-05-01 at 9:00 PM, AzureFlash said:

"consiquences" lmao

I find it particularly ironic that when Limbo forces someone to change tactics, they just go "what's wrong? just learn about Limbo's powers and play around him. Don't you know you can roll out of rift?"

When Limbos are forced to adapt their tactics because an egregiously overpowered combo (very similar to Trinity self-damage builds with Castanas), they're immediately going "b-but my go-to strategy!! Everything is RUINED!!! PUT IT BACK HOW IT WAS!!!!!"

I'd love to see Limbo removed from the game but we don't always get what we want, do we?

God, yes.  Limbo's been terrible to try and work with since he came out, and only gets marginally less atrocious to have on the team as DE tweak him to and fro.  Frost, Khora, Hydroid, Gara and Zephyr are all so much easier to work alongside.  Just delete the rift imho, it's always been a bad game mechanic and has needed way too much special attention for being so inherently game-breaking.

[JmDaFuz]

14 minutes ago, captainHalide said:

God, yes.  Limbo's been terrible to try and work with since he came out, and only gets marginally less atrocious to have on the team as DE tweak him to and fro.  Frost, Khora, Hydroid, Gara and Zephyr are all so much easier to work alongside.  Just delete the rift imho, it's always been a bad game mechanic and has needed way too much special attention for being so inherently game-breaking.

Well it happens the more complexity you give a character im afraide and more options you give any game the more combinations = the more options for game breaking there is. Limbo is one of the most complex with a bunch of unique rules tied to him so im not supprised hes over represented in that statistic. Weather thats grounds for removal im not so certain i agree. A because theres merrit to it on many fronts for players wanting a more free playstyle thats not tied to an arcetype DPS tank heal role. B because the rift can be quite fun to both the limbo player and the players who play with him. IF the limbo player can show respect and there in lies the debateable issue. Does disrespectful limboos warrent the removal of limbros?

[taiiat]

while it's something of an inconsistency that Enemies can be immune to Rift, at the same time on those sorts of Enemies i thin it's kinda neat the way that you handle them. Cataclysm provides surefire protection since they are immune to it, and to deal Damage you can flip it off and place it back when it's time to protect yourself.
with the Cast Time of Cataclysm it's a bit risky to do sometimes, but i kinda like the idea of that.

[(PSN)mahoshonenfox]

Exodia Contagion wasn't even the meta for Scarlet Spear. It was Redeemer Prime. People weren't even buffing it. A Limbo using Redeemer Prime with Naramon Power Spike will still annihilate Condrixes. If you're hunting eidolons with Limbo, the same tactic applies. After blowing up the 4th synovia, the big baby will REEE for a few seconds. Get your combo counter up by beating it with the Redeemer Prime. When it stands up, blast it. I've seen Excal players one shot Eidolons this way. No buffs. If Limbo could use Rift Torrent on Eidolons, that would be super broken as those enemies don't really have a lot of health.

[JmDaFuz]

10 hours ago, (PS4)mahoshonenfox said:

Exodia Contagion wasn't even the meta for Scarlet Spear. It was Redeemer Prime. People weren't even buffing it. A Limbo using Redeemer Prime with Naramon Power Spike will still annihilate Condrixes. If you're hunting eidolons with Limbo, the same tactic applies. After blowing up the 4th synovia, the big baby will REEE for a few seconds. Get your combo counter up by beating it with the Redeemer Prime. When it stands up, blast it. I've seen Excal players one shot Eidolons this way. No buffs. If Limbo could use Rift Torrent on Eidolons, that would be super broken as those enemies don't really have a lot of health.

Huh... That definetely is an interesting point and perspective. Dont that thing have like insane damage dropoff though?

[P._I._Staker]

On 2020-05-02 at 7:28 PM, (XB1)KayAitch said:

I'd just rework Cataclysm so that if you roll you're out of it - you can shoot enemies and they can shoot you.

Don't. make it a backflip. I use roll as a regular movement ability. Especially if it's a large bubble.

[P._I._Staker]

On 2020-05-05 at 11:56 PM, JmDaFuz said:

Huh... That definetely is an interesting point and perspective. Dont that thing have like insane damage dropoff though?

it does, but if you get close enough you oneshot very easily. Climb on top of a hill or get an ivara.

[kwlingo]

Im surprised you got likes from your rant on Limbo. I posted the same thread after the update came out and people just laid down the hate at me. ahahha Good job though 🙂

 

[kwlingo]

On 2020-05-02 at 9:17 AM, (PS4)Ozymandias-13- said:

I think the most functional method of fixing him would just be to change rift interaction overall to no longer prevent damage across the plane but rather reduce damage enemies deal to allies in the opposite plane. So a rifted enemy deals less damage to frames that aren't in the rift and non rift enemies deal less to frames in the rift. Maybe 90% less damage. Stasis will still be the way to prevent damage completely from either end (blocking enemy bullets in or out) but might need duration balancing. Ally damage will not be reduced by this. His passive dodge might keep the normal immunity to opposite side so he still has full benefit and drawback so he has the utility but still needs to manage his abilities appropriately and leave the rift periodically. 

If they did this then Limbo cannot have the low armor he has now. Still today he is one of the most fragile frame if he cannot bypass the damage.

[kwlingo]

On 2020-05-04 at 10:23 PM, (PS4)mahoshonenfox said:

Exodia Contagion wasn't even the meta for Scarlet Spear.

Yes this was. One of them through Volt should took all three phases of Murex down. "One" it had a multiplicative damage over and over again. Now that part was a bug to have multiplicative damage but the rest of how it was used was not.

[Legeno]

Limbo 4+2 is actually, in my opinion, quite good in the way it works in most times. One of the possible tweaks I can see is allowing Warframes ables to pull enemies (Mag, Valkyr, Nidus for exemple) in the Cataclysm even with the activated Stasis. That would be an important change specially for Nidus, and could even bring a great synergy between him and Limbo by making one of the downside of the Stasis in Cataclysm : enemies stacking on the edge of the bubble. 

But apart from that, I don't think the Limbo's problem comes from these abilities. People are looking at these 2 abilities because they are the most used by Limbo. And why ? Because Limbo only have 2 abilities on 4 that are actually useful. And that's the problem.

Limbo's 1 is completly useless with the Cataclysm : it's the same capacity, but with unclear limitations to the area of effect that can leave some enemies in the Rift that the allies can not even touch, so much more annoying. The only use of this ability is in Rescue type mission where you have to keep one mobile objective safe. So what about this : Banish become a one-target only abaility (just like before), that you can use both on enemies and allies. On enemies, no changes. On allies, Banish gives a boosted energy regen, twice more powerful than the normal. Allies can still roll out of course. That would give Limbo a more pronounced supportive role, and make the augment worth using it since you would not banish half the map to heal someone.

Limbo's 3 is used only for the augment that turns him in a powerful destructive machine, but badly used (so like 99% of the time) it just turn the battlefield into a dimensional mess. So I thought about making this ability some kind of "third state" : enemies affected by Rift Surge would be in a state where they are affected by attacks coming from both the Rift and the normal realm. If under Statis, the enemies are not completly stopped but slowed down, like with Nova's 4 for exemple.

And last things : delete Limbo's portal when he rolls, that doesn't bring anything.

This way, Limbo doesn't lose his unique defensive ability to completly pause the battlefield, that still makes him completly worthy on gamemode like Mobile Defense and Interception, but allows him to play a less invading playstyle otherwise.

[(PSN)mahoshonenfox]

26 minutes ago, Legeno said:

Limbo 4+2 is actually, in my opinion, quite good in the way it works in most times. One of the possible tweaks I can see is allowing Warframes ables to pull enemies (Mag, Valkyr, Nidus for exemple) in the Cataclysm even with the activated Stasis.

I use Magus Anomaly. It pulls enemies outside of Cataclysm into it. If Stasis is up, they stay at the edge but if your duration is long enough, they stay there long enough to be easily killed. If Stasis deactivates, the enemies keep the Anomaly momentum.

[kevoisvevo]

On 2020-05-02 at 12:54 AM, JmDaFuz said:

Disclaimer: This post is not meant to rant or rage that DE took a toy away. I simply wish to highlight a discussion as i see it.

 

In a nutshell when it comes to edolons and condrix raids/other special enemies, One of the main reasons why this was a go to strategy was because the condrix and edolon is by design invulnerable to the cataclysm despite being Surrounded by it, making limbo unable to make use of his damage augment. With the new changes all those strategies have been rendered void and i feel quite sorry for the loss.

A little more consistency with the cataclysms effects would Therefore be appreciated as the strategy where as mentioned quite fun and is only rely useful on high health pool targets.

 

Sincerely a old time Limbo Main.

 

PS: Id love to see a trans-formative damage augment for stasis. CC traded for lighter CC + damage boost. Or just boost. But thats a dear santa wish 😛

It's called rift torrent. Don't go -ve power strength though.

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

9 hours ago, kwlingo said:

If they did this then Limbo cannot have the low armor he has now. Still today he is one of the most fragile frame if he cannot bypass the damage.

 I did suggest for him to keep his current full immunity to the normal plane (good and bad) with his rift dodge. This would make him more versatile but still have to manage his own rift status to avoid permanent 90% damage resistance with no drawbacks.

I don't mind adjustments to my suggested fix. It's just a baseline to make him effective without being detrimentally invasive to others' gameplay. This change would would be a drastic improvement for his allies without reducing his own potential. In fact, he'd be better since he could use his 1 and 3 while on teams without consequence. The only change that would personally be a downgrade would be 90% resistance while in Cataclysm instead of immunity to the outside but Stasis would still work to prevent enemy projectiles. And he would gain the same ability as his allies to damage enemies outside so that is a big upgrade for him. 

 

[JmDaFuz]

On 2020-05-08 at 7:20 AM, kwlingo said:

Im surprised you got likes from your rant on Limbo. I posted the same thread after the update came out and people just laid down the hate at me. ahahha Good job though 🙂

 

Its about tone man ^^ after all its people not idiots you are trying to speak to. Least we can do is give them the curtesy of trying to understand their motivation and in turn be honnest about why we feel the way we do rather than attack : )

On 2020-05-08 at 4:30 PM, kevoisvevo said:

It's called rift torrent. Don't go -ve power strength though.

yeah im aware sir. I already use it on a large variety of builds. ; ) Unfortunately my experience and a constant nag is that its rarely worth using it as enemies simply die too fast either-way during normal gameplay. more or less why id love to give up stasis for a more reliable augment even if its weaker. As mentioned ofcause thats a dear santa wish