Kuva Bramma Needs Changing

[z3us32610]

Seriously. This thing is Catchmoon 2.0 except worse. I've resorted to just aborting any mission I'm in if someone is carrying this thing. There is no downtime to it i.e. reload. A simple ammo conversion mod in the exilus means endless ammo with close to zero down time. This thing is way overtuned. Why do I have to spend 3 seconds reloading the supra vandal yet this thing has zero? I understand bows having close zero reload time because they are single target weapons. This thing is far from that.

I know why it's so prevalent. There isn't another weapon that can kill faster than this. It seems it rivals saryn's miasma. So as far as being the most efficient, I understand. The problem is that it is SO much faster than anything else at kiling hordes. Throw in a riven and damn. I have a riven for this thing and it does mote dps than anything else I have.

I propose that the Bramma gets a lengthened reload time. Something around 2 seconds. It would still be overtuned, but at least there would some down time to it. As of now, anybody with an ammo mutation mod can fire this thing endlessly, with close to zero time between shots.

And btw, for you "play solo" crowd out there that can't accept the fact that Warframe is constantly changing, I actually play solo a lot. But I do also enjoy playing in public matches. Before the Bramma, I could care less what frame/weapon people brought. 

Now I have these explosive arrows lighting up my screen, landing at my feet because there is no need to aim, no need to use this thing with any sort of control. It can just be fired non-stop wherever the player likes and it will surely hit some bad guys. 

[BlackCat500]

You know, I'm using this because I'm lazy, but you're right. It is way overpowered. I both don't and do want them to nerf it. If they nerf it, I hope they at least don't completely ruin it. Aside from nerfing damage too much, what they can't do is increase the falloff to like 99.999% either. I hate it when good AoE weapons become single-target because the falloff is just ridiculous.

[Loza03]

I feel like some kind of ammo shenangians would work for Bramma. Maybe severely reduce the amount of ammo it can pick up to like one or two per ammo pack, like a reverse rifle scavenger?

That keeps the weapon as having its damage potential, but limits how often you can use it, limiting its spam ability by targeting the ability to use it often.

[Chewarette]

Just change this atrocious self-damage bullS#&$. Self damage insta killing you was fine, it was the price to pay for AoE huge damage. The Stagger, which can be ENTIRELY negated by Primed Sure Footed is not even a risk.

If they don't want to go the Self-Damage route again (because they ain't admitting a failure), maybe they can implement something else : If you get fully staggered by self damage, you drop your weapon to the ground and have to pick it up manually. There has to be some kind of penalty, which would be un-moddable against, to using this kind of weapons if you fail at aiming correctly. Losing 100% of armor for 30 seconds, a stagger which isn't accounted by Sure Footed, dealing reduced damage by -80% for 20 seconds, dunno.

Edited May 7, 2020 by Chewarette

[Uhkretor]

Ruin the weapon to the ground, and take Saryn with it.

[BlackCat500]

7 minutes ago, Chewarette said:

Just change this atrocious self-damage bullS#&$. Self damage insta killing you was fine, it was the price to pay for AoE huge damage. The Stagger, which can be ENTIRELY negated by Primed Sure Footed is not even a risk.

If they don't want to go the Self-Damage route again (because they ain't admitting a failure), maybe they can implement something else : If you get fully staggered by self damage, you drop your weapon to the ground and have to pick it up manually. There has to be some kind of penalty, which would be un-moddable against, to using this kind of weapons if you fail at aiming correctly. Losing 100% of armor for 30 seconds, a stagger which isn't accounted by Sure Footed, dealing reduced damage by -80% for 20 seconds, dunno.

It's not a failure, they're trying to accommodate all the people that had been crying for years about oh so horrible and unavoidable self-damage was. If you add more penalties we'd have DE staff members' houses set on fire, just like it's almost happening because of people having to wait a tiny bit longer for NW season 3. I'm not saying the solution is right, but I'll live with it because I know the rest of the community won't have a skillcheck.

[Chewarette]

10 minutes ago, BlackCat500 said:

It's not a failure, they're trying to accommodate all the people that had been crying for years about oh so horrible and unavoidable self-damage was. If you add more penalties we'd have DE staff members' houses set on fire, just like it's almost happening because of people having to wait a tiny bit longer for NW season 3. I'm not saying the solution is right, but I'll live with it because I know the rest of the community won't have a skillcheck.

Catering to part of the community at the cost of negatively impact the gaming experience of 90% of the players is definitely not the solution either.

Explosive weapons are an annoyance not only because of the "kill stealing", but in my case I'm more bothered by the White Energy warriors blinding me in corridors-tilesets.

[Steel_Rook]

2 hours ago, Chewarette said:

Catering to part of the community at the cost of negatively impact the gaming experience of 90%^{[citation needed]} of the players is definitely not the solution either.

Yeah, I've been hearing alarmist rhetoric like this since the Kuva Bramma came out, and I've yet to see actual evidence of it beyond the anecdotal experience of individual ranting players. If the Kuva Bramma were so popular, then surely I'd have run into it at some point doing Public missions, but I almost never do. I don't know what content you guys are playing, but I seriously doubt you represent 90% of the playerbase. Or, for that matter, that self-damage plays a significant role in the Bramma's popularity - I've seen no actual evidence of that. People claimed that removing self-damage would see everyone abusing the Bramma when we still had it, while simultaneously arguing that people were already abusing the Bramma... Thus fundamentally undermining their own arguments.

Far as I'm concerned, there's no need to balance explosive weapons with any kind of overt drawback. Most of them suck ass anyway. If the Bramma is seen as specifically overpowered, then... For one thing, why? What about its design makes it overpowered? And secondly, that's an issue with the Bramma, not all explosive weapons across the board.

[Aldain]

5 minutes ago, Steel_Rook said:

What about its design makes it overpowered?

Were I to hazard a guess, it would be the Kuva Lich bonus damage being stacked on top of the already HYSTERICALLY high base damage (if I'm reading the Wiki right) which is 839 base for the inital hit and a total of 1122 damage from all of the bomblets, each of which is effected by all damage modifiers including the Kuva weapon bonus which stacks the total damage even higher.

The weapon also has a respectable amount of status chance compared to another explosive bow the Lenz which lacks the bomblets and only has a 5% chance, which means that the weapon can also apply status effects well which can further increase its damage.

From what I can surmise it is so powerful solely because all of the factors in its design are like hitting the multiplication button over and over again on a calculator, the growth it gets from anything that modifies its damage is exponential, and that's not even counting it having a base crit rate of 35% which only exacerbates the issue.

The weapon's place on the Warframe powerscale makes the old Catchmoon look like a Stug because it can rapidly deal heavy crits and noticable status...assuming anything survives the initial burst of damage.

[(PSN)FriendSharkey]

It's an illusion, I watched a Ember do the very same thing with her powers in a exterminate in denying kills, so before nerfing a weapon that can sorta make you feel like you're killing a room make sure to nerf hammer Ember, Mirage, Saryn, and Volt with it..or just realize the Bramma will be nerfed eventually by De all on its own to make sure everyone goes after the next kuva meta explosive weapon to dump forma in...that's been the cycle for seven years now with anything considered good.

[Steel_Rook]

48 minutes ago, Aldain said:

The weapon also has a respectable amount of status chance compared to another explosive bow the Lenz which lacks the bomblets and only has a 5% chance, which means that the weapon can also apply status effects well which can further increase its damage.

I suppose Critical Chance might be the bone of contention. The damage the weapon does doesn't really strike me as that excessive, especially given the aggressive falloff, but that's a lot of "pellets" which can potentially stack Status Effects. Do we know if each pellet has the same 21% base status chance? Because most other weapons with native multishot split their status chance per pellet.

[Aldain]

7 minutes ago, Steel_Rook said:

Do we know if each pellet has the same 21% base status chance? Because most other weapons with native multishot split their status chance per pellet.

Well if we follow the logic of how they changed shotguns then I'd say it is pretty likely, I don't have the ability to test it, but each pellet is a separate instance of damage, I can't find a clear yes or no on that detail.

But even with the agressive falloff the initial hit is stronger than any prior Kuva explosive weapon, the total base damage of the pellets also adds up to more than the entire damage of those weapons as well.

In terms of single hit damage with the base bolt not even the Daikyu, the next strongest bow can match it, in fact the only weapon that has a higher total base damage than the inital bolt from the Bramma is the Exergis, which has a base crit chance of 8% across 3 pellets.

Even then the bomblets from the Bramma added in eclipse the total damage of the Exergis if you add them to the base bolt with the Kuva weapon bonus, the Exergis also needs to reload once per shot like the Bramma but reloads and fires slower too.

Overall the big thing that stands out to me about the Bramma is that it isn't bad at anything, it does base damage, status, crits, AoE and all it needs to solve the ammo issue is a Carrier or an ammo mutation mod, and it has the whole Kuva weapon thing which makes it have the capacity for it too.

[Klaeljanu]

5 hours ago, BlackCat500 said:

You know, I'm using this because I'm lazy, but you're right. It is way overpowered. I both don't and do want them to nerf it. If they nerf it, I hope they at least don't completely ruin it. Aside from nerfing damage too much, what they can't do is increase the falloff to like 99.999% either. I hate it when good AoE weapons become single-target because the falloff is just ridiculous.

2-4 second charge per shot, if that isn't enough, that makes the user immobile while charged.

The weapon was balanced entirely around self-damage.  Without self damage, it is quite overpowered.

[Rixuel]

lol the bramma is like a copy paste of Lenz, except with shorter range, more ammo and you can hold fire as long as you want

[Necrowakker]

my Ignis wraith can out damage it, and kill more than it. I've tested as much in places like hydron where another character was trying to use their bramma. thought it was good that my punch through allowed me to kill things through the walls.  

But I agree. in a quest where i'm moving forward,  and all i see is the explosions of the bramma in my screen, its very hard to navigate a tile when all i see is bright coloured explosions. let alone trying to target something for a melee attack. 

I'd rather all meta things,  as soon as they're found are crushed. balanced and the game can continue with everyone,  vets or casuals playing at a reasonable balance. so no one item or weapon or skill can kill in one shot.  

then we can start playing the game as its meant to be, synergy weapon sets.  then get the stats of enemies to be way harder so the balance of power in the game can work out a bit better.