The Nukers are stealing my kills : matchmaking solution instead of nerf ?

[GreyDeath789]

This topic isn't a problem..unless the squad mates are out of affinity range. If they want to kill everything and you get affinity...let them.

If your complaint is about leveling up a weapon during a mission then adapt and go solo or build a squad.

If your frame isn't a "dps" frame then leverage what your frame is good for...and don't complain that others are there to kill things.

[(PSN)chris1pat8twins]

24 minutes ago, GreyDeath789 said:

This topic isn't a problem..unless the squad mates are out of affinity range. If they want to kill everything and you get affinity...let them.

If your complaint is about leveling up a weapon during a mission then adapt and go solo or build a squad.

If your frame isn't a "dps" frame then leverage what your frame is good for...and don't complain that others are there to kill things.

I’ve played solo for the most part when I was a newbie. Mostly cause I was trying to understand the game which is hard when being rushed by no life gamers. No life as in they think cause they don’t need as much resources as newbies, that they can boss the newbies around. But during survival or defense I usually played in public and didn’t care if another player was nuking the map. I benefitted either way cause I got the mission done much sooner and gained a lot of affinity. But I didn’t stand around crying about not killing more enemies. I still managed to kill enemies. I even fought bosses like Kela Da Thayme with an unmodded Excalibur and unmodded weapons without dying. Cause the game didn’t exactly give me a tutorial on how these mods work, and the last time I’ve heard of mods, they were cheats or hacks. I didn’t let my inexperience prevent me from evolving nor did I slow everybody else down either. 
 

If leveling up is the issue then the entire complaint is ridiculous. If you’re just trying to level up a weapon fast to either gain MR or use it to the fullest sooner, which would you choose:

A). Killing one enemy at a time which can take up to an hour even with an affinity booster?

B). Accept a player who is nuking the map which floods your entire equipment with affinity in a much shorter amount of time? 
 

When it comes to leveling up, let’s say on Hydron Defense, which ones sounds better:

A). Spending 5-10 minutes per 5 waves(average 30 by wave 20), by shooting each enemy?

B). Spending 2-3 minutes allowing a squad member to obliterate the entire map?
 

The affinity shared may be like... 5-10% less overall, BUTTT, you get the mission done like 2-3x faster which means even more affinity overall.

Lets say that it takes you 30 minutes to get through Hydron Defense wave 20 with just weapons. The alternative is that you may get 10% less affinity, but you can complete wave 20 twice in the same amount of time. Which would make the overall percentage gained in the same amount of time 180%. Basically 80% more affinity in the same amount of time if you ACCEPT a nuking player. 
 

If “FUN” is the goal, then the simple solution is PLAY SOLO. Or FRIEND ONLY. Nobody else should be forced to spend an unnecessary amount of time just because a FEW people are too lazy to pick up the pace. Yes lazy, cause if you want everybody else to slow down instead of you simply speeding up, then that is the definition of being lazy. When grinding for affinity, or relics, or just a lot of resources, majority of people are gonna want to use the most efficient builds/frames to get the job done quickly so that they can move onto something else. Fissures is the worst place to make the farming resources excuse. People play fissures for only one thing. 
 

Me and another guy majority of the time play invite only cause we get tired of either carrying newbies, dealing with Leechers, or when we are just trying to “have fun”. Those people interfere too much which slows us down a great deal when we are trying to get things done. 
 

The only time I really do public games is during Fissures, cause obviously the more people, the more relics, the higher chance of better rewards. Duh. I’ve gotten many rare prime parts from randoms. Or during Open World Bounties, cause more players means the mission can be done quicker which would speed up the progress. But having these leechers/trolls interfering with mine and anybody else’s gaming experience is annoying. A saryn wiping the whole map on defense before enemies can get fissured is ridiculous. Or a leecher fishing and mining during bounties or just standing by the main door AFK which makes keeping areas secure more difficult. Enemy radar is not wide enough to cover such a huge landscape, nor are frames fast enough to do so solo. Can’t be any clearer than that.
 

People suggesting I spend time finding randoms in a recruit chat, KNOWING that they are only gonna want to use specific relics which would actually take longer than just playing with randoms in public, are literally trolls. I simply ask for things like greater reactant drop rate for endless missions like Defenses, because some players can’t control themselves or have zero coordination. I shouldn’t be forced to waste time trying to recruit picky players. And I’m not asking for DE to make drastic changes that will only benefit me. The small changes would literally benefit everybody except maybe the trolls, cause then they wouldn’t be able to troll as much. 

But nerfing entire frames cause a few newbies are so insecure or too lazy to play solo, is stupid. You can’t join a football team and tell others to slow down for you or play your way. Either get with the program or leave. 
 

What is the most biggest disappointment to me, are the people so quick to defend these entitled players. Makes me wonder if they are trolling leechers too due to how quick they object to suggestions that would literally benefit all while crippling the ability to troll. 

[Tokens210]

1 hour ago, MacIntoc said:

Damage ! it's only talking about damage ! No where it'is talking about adaptation to abilities that CC them. Only adaptation to all that HURT them. No more. And why void beam, Shedu and Paracesys can't remove adaptation to CC abilities ? Why Adaptation mod can't adapt us to CC abilities ? Why haven't they adapted to CC's capabilities before Scarlet Spear ? That should not be part of lore too ? No need to answer, it's just rhetorical.

Get out of your head that lore defines gameplay and mechanics. Next event : spy mission, everybody use Loky, Octavia, Ivara to cheese the mission in few second without sweating. Answer from DE "Sentient can adapt, they can now progressively see you when you are invisible, it's part of Lore". At best, lore serves to make the mission more exciting (as long as it's consistent), at worst it serves to justify errors. That's all.

There is no more to say about this, so please, please, stop off topics.

i merely responded to points you or others brought up, the fact that you directly responded only to add that youd like me to not bring something up that i didnt even bring up, shows me your not here for any discussion or debates, your just looking for ppl that feel the same way, to try and get them to jump on the wagon

 

never the less this exact thread pops up every so often

there is absolutely nothing that can be done, no matter what changes are made, players will find the easiest way to go thru a mission as fast as possible, this game has so much grind everyone knows ppl are going to find the easiest or most efficient way to do it

many of these supposed OP or "nuke" frames arnt nuke frames on the higher level content, in some cases some of them in higher content or in solo are actually under powered

enemies at later content can push level 100+, without having a decent built frame and weapons you end up doing very little, but turn around and take that same character and weapon layout to a regular tileset mission where enemies are level 30 or even below in some cases for the first like 30 minutes and you can wipe the floor with them all, and many players arnt staying for 30 minutes for those harder enemies to show up anyway, then combine that with the fact that the enemy ai seems to be set to fish in a barrel mode

hopefully the new hard mode will remove some of that as players will be able to start missions with higher level enemies out the gate

Edited May 25, 2020 by Tokens210

[QuinnCarter]

Do you want to know why us, 'nukers' are, 'stealing all your kills' OP?

It's because we spent 1400 plus hours playing this game, got up to MR 28, and forma'd our favourite Warframes 11 times to get the best possible build out of them, and by god we ARE going to murder entire planets with one button AND ENJOY IT! Why? Because that's our reward for spending so much time playing a power fantasy alien space ninja, being a power fantasy alien space ninja TIMES TWENTY!

Long live Clem.

[(PSN)caoshen0625]

2 problems.

First, you givaS#&$ about your kills.

Second, you don't play a nuke frame when you givaS#&$ about your kills.

 

[UUDDLRLRBA_START]

7 hours ago, (PS4)chris1pat8twins said:

The only time I really do public games is during Fissures, cause obviously the more people, the more relics, the higher chance of better rewards.

You're missing out on the spice of life that are randoms in Sortie.

Probably the only time vets meet newbies are in Lith and Meso fissures though.

[(XBOX)ShonOfDawn]

6 hours ago, QuinnCarter said:

Do you want to know why us, 'nukers' are, 'stealing all your kills' OP?

It's because we spent 1400 plus hours playing this game, got up to MR 28, and forma'd our favourite Warframes 11 times to get the best possible build out of them, and by god we ARE going to murder entire planets with one button AND ENJOY IT! Why? Because that's our reward for spending so much time playing a power fantasy alien space ninja, being a power fantasy alien space ninja TIMES TWENTY!

Long live Clem.

Eh, except you just need to fight Kela a couple of times, get a Saryn with overextended, and you are basically good to go. Or fight regor a few times, and get an equinox. No need of being mr28, no need of spending 1.4k hours in the game, no need for 11 formas. The ability to trivialize the game is given very early in the process. This is not power you acquire at the end of your journey. There are players under mr10 that run around with Brammas and Mesa Primes. If you know what items to go for, you can switch off the game immediately. That's the issue.

[QuinnCarter]

18 minutes ago, (XB1)ShonFr0st said:

Eh, except you just need to fight Kela a couple of times, get a Saryn with overextended, and you are basically good to go. Or fight regor a few times, and get an equinox. No need of being mr28, no need of spending 1.4k hours in the game, no need for 11 formas. The ability to trivialize the game is given very early in the process. This is not power you acquire at the end of your journey. There are players under mr10 that run around with Brammas and Mesa Primes. If you know what items to go for, you can switch off the game immediately. That's the issue.

And those players don't know the magic of dealing 20k damage per punch of a Desert Wind while simultaneously putting them to sleep and taking away their guns.

There's lots of different ways of being just as powerful as the so called meta. Brammas? Tonkor, Ogris, Zarr, Angstrum, Sonicor and Castanas are all just as good for explosive weaponry. Saryn, Mesa and Equinox do a lot of damage but can't lock down rooms with CC like Rhino, Limbo, Mirage, Frost, and Mag can. Warframes like Trinity, Wisp, and Oberon specialize and making sure the team never dies, or even takes damage in some cases.

My point is, you can't complain about something being overpowered in Warframe when the entire point of playing Warframe is being overpowered. Whenever you even pick a Warframe you are doing 1 of three things:

1. Never dying.

2. Locking down all the enemies with CC.

3. Killing all the enemies instantly.

[MacIntoc]

9 hours ago, GreyDeath789 said:

This topic isn't a problem..unless the squad mates are out of affinity range. If they want to kill everything and you get affinity...let them.

As I said in the first post, this topic is not a problem as long as it doesn't lead to a nerve. Unfortunately, this is not the case. Some players are complaining that some stuff prevent them to make kill and need to be nerf. And the stuff is actually nerfed.

 

8 hours ago, (PS4)chris1pat8twins said:

If “FUN” is the goal, then the simple solution is PLAY SOLO. Or FRIEND ONLY. Nobody else should be forced to spend an unnecessary amount of time just because a FEW people are too lazy to pick up the pace.

Yes but solo is visibly not a solution since we have always complaints followed by nerfs. And your argument is valuable in both side : nobody should be forced to spend an unnecessary amount of time in hallway simulator just because a few people spawn kill mobs.

8 hours ago, (PS4)chris1pat8twins said:

What is the most biggest disappointment to me, are the people so quick to defend these entitled players. Makes me wonder if they are trolling leechers too due to how quick they object to suggestions that would literally benefit all while crippling the ability to troll. 

For me, the biggest disappointment is that kind of complaints are leading to nerf of stuffs i like.

@Tokens210

As you said, i'm a bit rude. I'm not good at English and i try to be as direct as possible, sorry for that. And i'm looking for arguments against the matchmaking solution i offer in the first post to avoid complaints about nuke stuff and their nerfs.

Edited May 25, 2020 by MacIntoc

[(XBOX)ShonOfDawn]

1 minute ago, QuinnCarter said:

1. Never dying.

2. Locking down all the enemies with CC.

3. Killing all the enemies instantly.

I would personally argue that on the other hand, these 3 things are the aberrations that massively flatten warframe's gameplay experience, and turn it from an action game into a glorified cookie clicker. The problem is that those three capabilities make encounter design a nightmare, and that massively limits warframe's potential. The issue is further exacerbated by the fact that you can get access to those tools instantly. 

Basically warframe boils down to being so powerful that there's no satisfaction in fighting, at all, because the outcome is far predetermined. It could be fixed, since most of our warframes cannot do perfectly any of those three, allowing for enemy design that maybe can have a fighting chance. However, that would entail the nerf of the outliers, and DE is way too scared to face the outrage of tuning down frames like Mesa, Saryn, Limbo, Equinox and so forth.

[QuinnCarter]

5 minutes ago, (XB1)ShonFr0st said:

I would personally argue that on the other hand, these 3 things are the aberrations that massively flatten warframe's gameplay experience, and turn it from an action game into a glorified cookie clicker. The problem is that those three capabilities make encounter design a nightmare, and that massively limits warframe's potential. The issue is further exacerbated by the fact that you can get access to those tools instantly. 

Basically warframe boils down to being so powerful that there's no satisfaction in fighting, at all, because the outcome is far predetermined. It could be fixed, since most of our warframes cannot do perfectly any of those three, allowing for enemy design that maybe can have a fighting chance. However, that would entail the nerf of the outliers, and DE is way too scared to face the outrage of tuning down frames like Mesa, Saryn, Limbo, Equinox and so forth.

BUT THAT IS WHY PEOPLE PLAY WARFRAME. Being so powerful that nothing can touch you is that exact point of a power fantasy and is why so many people like me play this game. It's like Dynasty Warriors or Serious Sam. taking down entire armies effortlessly is cathartic, some of us just want to turn off our brains after a long day and just unwind.

And why do I keep seeing people complain about the the same three Warframes lately? It's like nobody has even see what the other 41 can really do.

[MacIntoc]

2 minutes ago, QuinnCarter said:

And why do I keep seeing people complain about the the same three Warframes lately? It's like nobody has even see what the other 41 can really do.

That's precisely why i was suggesting allowing people to tell the matchmaking that they don't want to play with people who use this stuff, instead of nerfing them.

[QuinnCarter]

Just now, MacIntoc said:

That's precisely why i was suggesting allowing people to tell the matchmaking that they don't want to play with people who use this stuff, instead of nerfing them.

Honestly that's fair, more matchmaking options than the ones we have (which is none) would be very much welcome. Personally, I would like the option to quickplay on the navigation console.

[(XBOX)ShonOfDawn]

Just now, QuinnCarter said:

BUT THAT IS WHY PEOPLE PLAY WARFRAME. Being so powerful that nothing can touch you is that exact point of a power fantasy and is why so many people like me play this game.

Yes, except that warframe's power fantasy is the equivalent of feeling powerful because you entered a kindergarten and started beating up all the toddlers. A baseline level of challenge, even if small, is needed in order to feel powerful, otherwise you have nothing to compare yourself to. Power fantasy does not mean that you can turn your brain off and watch Netflix while playing. I'm not even arguing that this should be extended to the whole game, but there is the need for challenge somewhere, and that cannot happen until some gamebreaking stuff is put in line with the other still very powerful (as you stated yourself) options that we have. 

If you go back and watch Steve's twitter surveys (devstream 136 if I'm not mistaken, if you ask for it I'll show you the data), it's actually pretty evident that a very relevant portion of the community would like challenge in the game. Unlimited power might be cathartic for some, but for others it gets old extremely quickly, and this is reflected in the constant need for new content and the incessant call for "endgame". A lot of people have been and are driven away from the game because "they have nothing to do", and combat being unrewarding and non-engaging is a pretty big component of it.

[QuinnCarter]

4 minutes ago, (XB1)ShonFr0st said:

Yes, except that warframe's power fantasy is the equivalent of feeling powerful because you entered a kindergarten and started beating up all the toddlers. A baseline level of challenge, even if small, is needed in order to feel powerful, otherwise you have nothing to compare yourself to. Power fantasy does not mean that you can turn your brain off and watch Netflix while playing. I'm not even arguing that this should be extended to the whole game, but there is the need for challenge somewhere, and that cannot happen until some gamebreaking stuff is put in line with the other still very powerful (as you stated yourself) options that we have. 

If you go back and watch Steve's twitter surveys (devstream 136 if I'm not mistaken, if you ask for it I'll show you the data), it's actually pretty evident that a very relevant portion of the community would like challenge in the game. Unlimited power might be cathartic for some, but for others it gets old extremely quickly, and this is reflected in the constant need for new content and the incessant call for "endgame". A lot of people have been and are driven away from the game because "they have nothing to do", and combat being unrewarding and non-engaging is a pretty big component of it.

It honestly sounds like you're looking for something in Warframe that Warframe isn't going to give you and you should just move on and find something else.

[(XBOX)ShonOfDawn]

7 minutes ago, QuinnCarter said:

It honestly sounds like you're looking for something in Warframe that Warframe isn't going to give you and you should just move on and find something else.

Read my second paragraph though. There is statistical evidence that I'm not the only one. Am I looking for something in warframe that it doesn't give? That's undeniable. But what I'm looking for, challenge, is an integral part of any game, the one that sprouts commitment and player retention. In the long haul, warframe would be benefitted by focusing on making combat engaging, because the mindless stomp fest that the current game is only leads players to be frustrated whenever they don't get the reward they want, makes grinding unbearable, and can only hold a player's attention for so long... I wouldn't say this if I didn't love the game and hope for its best.

[QuinnCarter]

Just now, (XB1)ShonFr0st said:

Read my second paragraph though. There is statistical evidence that I'm not the only one. Am I looking for something in warframe that it doesn't give? That's undeniable. But what I'm looking for, challenge, is an integral part of any game, the one that sprouts commitment and player retention. In the long haul, warframe would be benefitted by focusing on making combat engaging, because the mindless stomp fest that the current game is only leads players to be frustrated whenever they don't get the reward they want, makes grinding unbearable, and can only hold a player's attention for so long... I wouldn't say this if I didn't love the game and hope for its best.

It really doesn't sound like you love the game if you want it to completely change. That's not how love works.

[(XBOX)ShonOfDawn]

Just now, QuinnCarter said:

It really doesn't sound like you love the game if you want it to completely change. That's not how love works.

But I'm not asking for the game to change completely. I'm asking it to tone down those options that make gameplay a matter of pressing a single button and seeing enemies get switched off, instantly, through walls, with no effort or active thought, because it shuts down the variety that makes Warframe what Warframe is. 

[QuinnCarter]

4 minutes ago, (XB1)ShonFr0st said:

But I'm not asking for the game to change completely. I'm asking it to tone down those options that make gameplay a matter of pressing a single button and seeing enemies get switched off, instantly, through walls, with no effort or active thought, because it shuts down the variety that makes Warframe what Warframe is. 

Almost every single Warframe can do that though, do you even have every Warframe unlocked like I have and played each one of them enough to know their full potential? The variety is still there, just in wildly different forms, and if you think that isn't true, you haven't been playing enough.

[MacIntoc]

3 minutes ago, QuinnCarter said:

Personally, I would like the option to quickplay on the navigation console.

It would not be a "per mission" choice. The choice would be done in global settings : since a stuff's nerf is a permanent solution, the choice to not played with should look like it. But if one of the stuff "banned" in setting is used by the player, the "bans" choices are not taking into account by matchmaking.

 

6 minutes ago, (XB1)ShonFr0st said:

A baseline level of challenge, even if small, is needed in order to feel powerful, otherwise you have nothing to compare yourself to.

That explain why Arbitration and Railjack were nerfed, Raid were removed, mobs' toughtness were lowered... 😄

But wait, Starchart mission 50-95 and 100-145 should out soon.

  

20 minutes ago, (XB1)ShonFr0st said:

If you go back and watch Steve's twitter surveys (devstream 136 if I'm not mistaken, if you ask for it I'll show you the data), it's actually pretty evident that a very relevant portion of the community would like challenge in the game. Unlimited power might be cathartic for some, but for others it gets old extremely quickly, and this is reflected in the constant need for new content and the incessant call for "endgame". A lot of people have been and are driven away from the game because "they have nothing to do", and combat being unrewarding and non-engaging is a pretty big component of it.

Yeah... survey done on twitter for thoses who follows Steve. Surely the most signifiant point of view of the community.

  

1 minute ago, (XB1)ShonFr0st said:

But I'm not asking for the game to change completely. I'm asking it to tone down those options that make gameplay a matter of pressing a single button and seeing enemies get switched off, instantly, through walls, with no effort or active thought, because it shuts down the variety that makes Warframe what Warframe is. 

Ok, we understand, if you want to make kill, you have to use stuff that make kill, reducing variety. But having a way to say to matchmaking that you don't want to be in squad with people that use this kind of stuff (unless you use it yourself) would not be a better solution than nerfing ?

[Leyvonne]

On 2020-05-19 at 1:45 PM, MacIntoc said:

Hi,

I'm tired of this war between people who use stuff with a high kps (kps == kill per second) and those who don't. Saryn, Mesa, Ignis, Kuva Bramma, ... there is no shortage of examples of people who complain about not killing because they can't use or don't want to use the stuff for and instead moan to make these stuffs to be nerf up to the marrow.

So, why not give the players the choice to choose the stuf they want or don't want to go in squad with ? A simple list of the existing stuff with a checkbox telling the public matchmaking not to put them in a squad using one of the checked stuff (unless player itself use one of the checked stuff, of course). If they don't encounter theses stuffs, they should make kill again and stop to complain about "OP" stuff that prevent them to kill ?

No ?

And what if I play Saryn, but don't play a nuke build? With your system I'll be excluded from matchmaking based on how other people play. Sounds like a great system indeed.

[(XBOX)ShonOfDawn]

10 minutes ago, QuinnCarter said:

Almost every single Warframe can do that though, do you even have every Warframe unlocked like I have and played each one of them enough to know their full potential? The variety is still there, just in wildly different forms, and if you think that isn't true, you haven't been playing enough.

That's a wild generalization though. I own around 75% of the frames, there are some that either because of their design or gameplay elements just don't entice me. Even at their full potential, most frames cannot shut down the whole game without a thought and/or through walls. Ivara can't, Excalibur can't, Gauss can't, Titania can't, Wisp can't, Mag can't, Nekros can't, Khora can't, Ash can't, Zephyr can't.... there are more, but these all either require LoS, or require set up with their skills. They are still very powerful and useful in their own fields, but they don't play the game for you like a Saryn, Mesa, Equinox or Limbo Can. I'd argue that simple LoS check on all abilities, with few exceptions, would give enemies a fighting chance, just for the cast that subsequent casts would be needed to hit those enemies that were behind cover. 

[QuinnCarter]

7 minutes ago, (XB1)ShonFr0st said:

That's a wild generalization though. I own around 75% of the frames, there are some that either because of their design or gameplay elements just don't entice me. Even at their full potential, most frames cannot shut down the whole game without a thought and/or through walls.

Yes they can, Excalibur can through blind and Exalted Blade, Ivara can with infinite invisibility and Artemis Bow, Banshee can spam 4 all day and the enemies will just be stunlocked to death, Ash's 4 ignores armor, Hildryn's 1 is basically exalted Ogris times 10, Khora can spam her 1 and one shot everything through walls even at the highest level, Gara has her massive 1 + 4 nuke, Ember can spam 4 and spread her fire to kill everything in one cast, Oberon can ignore the game entirely with 2, 3 and the Adaptability mod, Wukong has infinite melee range with 4 and can make a clone to do all the fighting for him, Octavia has her mallet that does scaling damage, Trinity gives everyone full health and energy all the time, Mirage has a near global blind button, Vauban 's vortex is basically a win button, Nidus' scaling ability strength can allow him to one shot bosses in Sorties and has the best cc pulls in the game, Volt's 4 is one of the best nukes in the game that ignores terrain, Titania becomes nearly impossible to hit with her 4 and all of her self buffs were made better in a recent patch, Rhino is immortal and has the best cc ability in the game, Valykr can give everyone infinite melee speed, and Baruuk is Baruuk.

Just because Saryn, Mesa and Equinox have a lower skill floor and can so called 'play the game for you,' don't make them anywhere as remotely strong as all the ones I listed.

[MacIntoc]

54 minutes ago, Leyvonne said:

And what if I play Saryn, but don't play a nuke build? With your system I'll be excluded from matchmaking based on how other people play. Sounds like a great system indeed.

Yeah, that's a good point. But I don't think every player will ban Saryn. The reality is probably that the people who complain are a noisy minority. But you're right, it will slightly increases your chances of being on a nuke squad.

 

Edited May 25, 2020 by MacIntoc

[DrivaMain]

If me or other people want to ban a certain setup from appearing in our games then just let us. In fact it will be beneficial for you because it will allow you the banned setup user avoid us so we don’t go full keyboard warrior or going full toxic mode regarding your setup when you join our games.