FateZero Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 (edited) Because at this point I care a lot less about the fact she's a Berserker without any muscle mass ( although that was the original complaint )-- there are a bunch of different arguments about that, including the fact that the suits do all the work anyway, and so muscle doesn't matter. The reason I responded to the rest of your post was because you said we didn't "need" a buffer female, and that you "preferred" a lean one-- and yet we have seven of those, and no buff ones. Not even a thicker one. And yet we have VERY different male body types in the game; comparing Rhino to Nekros to Vauban and around again? It's not that the artist's "integrity" is on the line with these female designs, and it wouldn't be "pandering" to change them-- what the designers are doing right now is pandering. They're pandering to a sexist double-standard where men in the game are allowed to be diverse, but women all have to be paper-thin with midsections like they're wearing corsets all the time. It's awful, it's unprofessional, and I expect better. I never said we don't need a buffer female, I said "We don't need it to be overly buff" Like Rhino level or as my first example from a previous post. Why can't you be lean and buff at the same time? As far as I know males tend to have a wider range of body types when it comes to muscle structure. Simply because muscles of males can be stronger and bigger than females, but females have the advantage in resistance against fatigue and pain. Edited October 19, 2013 by FateZero Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noabettiet Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 she looks like an animal out of its cage, full of rage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheResult Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 Is that.. Supposed to be an example of what you consider "overly buff", or what you consider "lean and buff"? Because that woman's head-to-body ratio is just plain comical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RahuHordika Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 (edited) I cannot believe that Warframe is taking it's queues from Mortal Kombat circa 1994 where they have a 'Female Ninja' model and just pallet swap to make it unique. Funny thing to note, in MK9 every female actually has some muscle, to the point of having abs, yet they're not grossly overbuffed or the like, however they have more mass (at least on the arms) than the concept art for berzerker. Edited October 19, 2013 by RahuStalker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FateZero Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 (edited) Is that.. Supposed to be an example of what you consider "overly buff", or what you consider "lean and buff"? Because that woman's head-to-body ratio is just plain comical. Overly buff, just like if a female frame were to look like Rhino. Angle of the image too, but it doesn't matter. It was just an example of how that game (Dragon's Crown) pushed it to the opposite limit of what a female berserker looked like, which would seem like what some people wanted this frame to be. Dragon's Crown is full of overly sexist/exaggerated males and females. Edited October 19, 2013 by FateZero Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobafetthotmail Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 Not in this game. Can you ask an artist to break their artistic integrity just to pander to the community which I don't even know which is the majority, it seems divided a hundred ways on how it should have looked? This does not mean changing a little bit like stronger arms, but asking the artist to scrap the idea and create a female frame as buff as Rhino. Artists receive money for their work. It's their job to come up with concepts following some general guideline. Concepts are scrapped all the time. They usually learn how to deal with it very early on in their career. I never said we don't need a buffer female, I said "We don't need it to be overly buff" Like Rhino level or as my first example from a previous post. Why can't you be lean and buff at the same time? As far as I know males tend to have a wider range of body types when it comes to muscle structure. Simply because muscles of males can be stronger and bigger than females, but females have the advantage in resistance against fatigue and pain. Listen, Berserkers are supposed to be melee, and that is a role that needs a minimum of muscle mass. You can do only so much with blind rage, as it's like overclocking a PC, you damage your muscles if you try to go overboard with either drugs or adrenaline or whatever (it's not like athletes don't get injured all the time by trying to do that with doping). From that to MAKE HER LIKE RHINO there is a few light-years, but the concept seems like Nova's little sister. And Nova is a caster damnit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheResult Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 I think you're overestimating what a female Rhino would look like, or how much muscle people want on a female Warframe. People have said "close to Rhino", and Rhino looks.. absolutely nothing like the woman you pictured. Somebody earlier in the thread asked us to draw what we thought a bulkier female frame would look like, and I gave it a shot. Rather than a bodybuilder ( somebody who builds their muscles and bodies for show ), I would expect something closer to a strongman/strongwoman ( somebody who builds their muscles and bodies for actual lifting ). Those sorts of people have thicker midsections, and look a little "fatter", rather than being made of pure, rippling muscle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FateZero Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 (edited) Artists receive money for their work. It's their job to come up with concepts following some general guideline. Concepts are scrapped all the time. They usually learn how to deal with it very early on in their career. Listen, Berserkers are supposed to be melee, and that is a role that needs a minimum of muscle mass. You can do only so much with blind rage, as it's like overclocking a PC, you damage your muscles if you try to go overboard with either drugs or adrenaline or whatever (it's not like athletes don't get injured all the time by trying to do that with doping). From that to MAKE HER LIKE RHINO there is a few light-years, but the concept seems like Nova's little sister. And Nova is a caster damnit. Listen, If DE was willing show a concept to the public, then it's more than likely that's one if not the final concept they are going to build off of. Don't you think many concepts were scrapped in the process of finding the right one to fit Warframe, the story, and concept? I'm all for tweaks to the muscles mass, but like I said not to a point that some people are calling for. I.E Rhino, super buff, just to break the mold of female since we don't have one yet BS. I never said anything about rage, I have not supported that perception of a berserker at all. I do not believe rage is the best view for a berserker in Warframe. I however do support the idea of the suit just like the suit in Crysis. You know what? What if this is what a "berserker" is in the universe of Warframe? What if that was the guideline to design a frame that is loosely based on a "berserker" but fits the story and universe of Warframe. Why must it be drawing from other sources of what a "berserker is"? Why can't it just be simply a new definition of a "berserker" that fits Warframe? I think you're overestimating what a female Rhino would look like, or how much muscle people want on a female Warframe. People have said "close to Rhino", and Rhino looks.. absolutely nothing like the woman you pictured. Somebody earlier in the thread asked us to draw what we thought a bulkier female frame would look like, and I gave it a shot. Rather than a bodybuilder ( somebody who builds their muscles and bodies for show ), I would expect something closer to a strongman/strongwoman ( somebody who builds their muscles and bodies for actual lifting ). Those sorts of people have thicker midsections, and look a little "fatter", rather than being made of pure, rippling muscle. So the suit makes the frame eh? For all we know the person inside that suit could be thin, weak, scrawy, it wouldn't matter since we wouldn't know what the body looked like, just what the suit looks like. I rather be able to see the muscle defined and the suit fit the person inside, instead of any person that can fit the suit. Again Crysis is a good example, but I those are males inside those suits canon wise. Click on the image, the spoiler resolution is making it look thinner than what it actually is on my screen. Common theme with female I'm started to see, no matter what, someone going to complain, but when it comes to males, oh that's fine. Edited October 19, 2013 by FateZero Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WARGAMES Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 I saw berserker, I looked backa t: http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-qFnAfC012Yk/UQubES4O4rI/AAAAAAAABdI/Tq_ZbzAQopo/s1600/warwhat2.jpg I frowned that the fan-made one made it look worse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katakuna Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 You know what? What if this is what a "berserker" is in the universe of Warframe? What if that was the guideline to design a frame that is loosely based on a "berserker" but fits the story and universe of Warframe. Why must it be drawing from other sources of what a "berserker is"? Why can't it just be simply a new definition of a "berserker" that fits Warframe? Sure, we can shove this under the rug of "Space Magic" like we have with so many others laws of reality, but it will leave a sour taste in our mouths, since the root of the problem is still there. Berserker will still be a scrawny little thing unbefitting of her title, and those of us desiring a buff female frame will be left disappointed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eltyranto Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 Female titan anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LostAlone Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 Funny thing to note, in MK9 every female actually has some muscle, to the point of having abs, yet they're not grossly overbuffed or the like, however they have more mass (at least on the arms) than the concept art for berzerker. Mmhmm. Way back when in video game wild west where the audiences were exclusively male and almost exclusively teenage, it was ok to not think too hard about female characters design other than they needed to be hot. In the same was as in the comic book industry, you told them apart by their outfits, not their physique. Now, even Mortal Kombat has changed their tune and decided to depict women more accurately. They've looked at female kickboxers and mixed martial artists and decided that waif-fu is an outdated and somewhat uncomfortable construct that came from an era where people didn't care about realism, just looks. What we have in game at the moment isn't exactly great when we talk about diversity, but at least that stuff kinda makes sense in terms of what the frames do. Poison, healing, anti-matter... That's all fine for them to be kinda insubstantial. If you focus on that kinda magic stuff, then sure you wouldn't put as much emphasis on physical training and just let your suit cover that blind spot. But for someone who specializes in 'hitting things' she needs to look like she's ever hit something before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FillyRarity Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 Hmmm... I'm gonna take this frame as DE's nod to women, saying Women can be as strong as any man and still look fabulous. Hmm... Looks a bit flimsy though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fornicate Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 (edited) Why can't we frie... Whoops, Everything would be so easy if they didn't give her the berserker title, just the next female frame. Problem arise when labels are put on frame/people. (True story bro) I like the concept but know it is still concept, I'll hold off my opinion till I see the model in-game. We don't need it to be overly buff, I much prefer a lean body type. Repost from another topic This! I think just because Scott, or whoever, gave it the name "Berserker", everyone all of a sudden generates their own concept of what the frame should be. What if we named it "Valkyrie" (if anyone who's seen the thread about the name, I'm sure you know where that comes from), would people still be in uproar of what she should look like? It's just a name. Who knows, the name might change before release. Everyone's up in arms over a "concept", thinking that it's the final product (sounds familiar doesn't it). Think of the name as a filler. Think of the concept as temporary. ON A DIFFERENT NOTE: For those who have seen G-Gundam and know the "Berserker Mode." Is Allenby what you expect to be a "Berserker"? http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110704233949/gundam/images/d/da/Allenby_beardsley.jpg EDIT: I can never learn how to post images on this here forum. Y'all wippersnappers and your technologies. Edited October 19, 2013 by Fornicate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FateZero Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 Screw everything, I'm just gonna go with. I want the frame to still look female and attractive, while strong, muscular, and defined, while keeping with the theme of being tortured and studied by the Corpus. (Take the sentence however you want, but I'm just gonna wait to see what happens) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marthrym Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 Why oh why everytime someone says "just a LITTLE more muscle mass" there is always another someone to "go berserk" and repeat the same thing that was 3 posts above saying "I don't want a female Rhino"... Seriously... Between the drawing DE gave us and RHINO there is a world of difference, so stop the female Rhino bs, We're just talkin about a proportionate physique, not an 80 pounds chopstick, nor a 300 pounds Rhino-like bodybuilder... And showing more drawings made by different people each having a different definition of what a fit woman looks like isn't really helping, Although the one posted by FateZero is what corresponds to my mental image of what the berserker should look like, proportion wise. So thank you FateZero! :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatantfool Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 If they made her a bit bigger to make her look more muscular then other Femme Frames I certainly wouldn't care. As far as I'm concerned only the look of the suit really matters. Since I'm pretty happy with how that looks I figure everything is peachy. Besides, the only guys weirded out by girls who keep fit are the guys who can't handle a girl that keeps fit. -zing- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FateZero Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 Why oh why everytime someone says "just a LITTLE more muscle mass" there is always another someone to "go berserk" and repeat the same thing that was 3 posts above saying "I don't want a female Rhino"... Seriously... Between the drawing DE gave us and RHINO there is a world of difference, so stop the female Rhino bs, We're just talkin about a proportionate physique, not an 80 pounds chopstick, nor a 300 pounds Rhino-like bodybuilder... And showing more drawings made by different people each having a different definition of what a fit woman looks like isn't really helping, Although the one posted by FateZero is what corresponds to my mental image of what the berserker should look like, proportion wise. So thank you FateZero! :-) Ah which one? I posted many. >.< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Defion Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 Hmm, as far as a berserker female warframe goes I somehow get this picture in my head with a closed helmet.... And as far as abilities goes (if it hasnt changed yet from the first few pages, couldnt get myself so far to read all pages), only the 4th sounds like a pain to me in survival missions... where mobs basicly keep coming and its tough to clear a entire room.... But with a small change it can work, like if not cleared a room a small decrease in speed is something I would'nt mind. But thats just my take on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LostAlone Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 (edited) Hmmm... I'm gonna take this frame as DE's nod to women, saying Women can be as strong as any man and still look fabulous. Hmm... Looks a bit flimsy though. I think a better interpretation is that they're saying that women can ONLY be as strong as men if they also adhere to a certain body type. Edit - Also, I'm not wild about the implications that come from the name either to be honest. How does the little chick kick your &#!? Through her finely honed skill? Through mystical inner strength? No. She's just crazy. A crazy chick that kicks &#! because she's crazy. Not because she's good at it. I mean... I know that no-one at DE is specifically trying to say that. But seriously, the crazy, aggressive dinky chick is... That's a bad stereotype. Edited October 19, 2013 by LostAlone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marthrym Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 (edited) FateZero, I meant the Crysis-like suit. It reflects pretty well what I see when I try to imagine the berserker. And before anyone goes bashing me, I'm not saying she should look like a Crysis rip-off, just that the proportions are more in line with the berserker I would like to see. Thanks again FateZero. Oh and I like your idea too Defion! Edited October 19, 2013 by Marthrym Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bejuizb Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 I like her design. Hopefully her abilities help her wreck S#&$. But seriously......those aren't whips.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shehriazad Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 Why are all those nerds ranting about as if she had some uber feminine body type? Look at her legs, overall body type... those weird "outside" muscles on her arms and weird metal stuff attached to her.... Anyone saying that she's just another attempt at "sex sells" certainly must have weird fetishes... not even like she has a super female shape or super big breasts.... she looks like something I actually wouldn't want to encounter in reallife.... And who the hell would want a female full on body builder as frame anyway just because it's called Berserker. Also a Berserker isn't necessarily someone who looks like a body builder on crack anyway.... someone going "Berserk" is a being that rampages around like a wild animal and not feeling any of the pain or wounds while doing so. If you look at the devices on this frames neck and body they look like devices that constantly instill pain to a point that the frame wielder will get used to and eventually completely disregard it at some point. Of course this design might not look perfect to some...but that is because people seem to put Barbarians and Berserkers into the same folder while they're something different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VodkaGR Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 (edited) Why are all those nerds ranting about as if she had some uber feminine body type? Look at her legs, overall body type... those weird "outside" muscles on her arms and weird metal stuff attached to her.... Anyone saying that she's just another attempt at "sex sells" certainly must have weird fetishes... not even like she has a super female shape or super big breasts.... she looks like something I actually wouldn't want to encounter in reallife.... And who the hell would want a female full on body builder as frame anyway just because it's called Berserker. Also a Berserker isn't necessarily someone who looks like a body builder on crack anyway.... someone going "Berserk" is a being that rampages around like a wild animal and not feeling any of the pain or wounds while doing so. If you look at the devices on this frames neck and body they look like devices that constantly instill pain to a point that the frame wielder will get used to and eventually completely disregard it at some point. Of course this design might not look perfect to some...but that is because people seem to put Barbarians and Berserkers into the same folder while they're something different. Actually no,they are not different.Berseker literally origins from certain vikings.And yes,it strongly relates to using devastating brute force,not just attacking to no avail.So muscular body is mandatory. And her body is as feminine as it gets.She might look like a monster,but if she had a proper skin ,she would look like a stripper or something.Her biggest part is her thighs.I bet her ulti is a lap dance or something Edited October 20, 2013 by VodkaGR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acos Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 I like how every time a female warframe is introduced the community, rather than discussing mechanics or playstyle, has a thirteen-page long discussion about exactly how big her boobies really should be. Sorry, I mean "muscle mass". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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