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A solution to Exalted Weapon and Stat Sticks Scaling and consistency.


keikogi

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It´s no secret that quite a few exalted weapons suck quite a bit. Some of them were just born meh (Bale Fire launcher) , others suffers the brunt of power creep or system wide reworks ( monkey stick went from one of the best melee weapons to one of the worst ones ). I also want to future proof this idea by rolling in the “stat” stick warframe into the “exalted slot “

What is a exalted slot? Well it is a reframing of how the power works , for example Excalibut sword beam as it is right now are a property of the sword , under my exalted slot idea it is just a thing he can do with any sword he gets his hand into. Same goes for Ivara, the multishot thing is just something she can do with any bow not anything to do with her default bow (Artemis Bow).

The TL;DR is

Remove the weapon, keep the effect. What I mean by this:

When you equip any frame with a exalted weapon or stat stick skill you will be presented with a extra weapon slot that will come with the currently availible exalted weapon equiped ( for example exalted balde for excalibur and atlas fist for atlas, new weapon with the stats equivalent to current landslide). Like any slot you can change the weapon in this exalted slot but there are rules for compatibility with each frame ( excalibur can only equip swords , valkir can only equip claws , atlas gauntlets and so on ). For melee weapons this slot will equip a melee weapon with exalted stance , this stance skill will imbue the weapon with the unique properties of the skill like sending energy waves with the sword for Excalibur. For ranged weapon it will equip a exilus mod grating the extra stuff the weapon has ,for exapmple ivara give inate split flights for any bow equiped on the exalted slot )

 

The long and detailed version.

Well it will appear as an extra slot for the build on the same exalted weapons are displayed right now but they will have a different border. The frame comes with his standard weapon equipped on the slot (Desert wind for Baruuk , dex pixia for Titania , Valkyr Talons for valkir and so on). The player may equip another weapon on the same category on this slot.

Any melee weapon equipped on a melee slot will automatically equip the corresponding exalted weapon stance, that stance also grants unique properties associated with the frame

Any ranged weapon (primary or secondary) will have a unique mod automatically equipped into their slot (even if the slot has not been unlocked) to grant the unique properties associated to that frame

This idea tries to make sure these damage skill will keep up with the march of power creep by tying their power to the power level on a weapon category so as long as there is at least 1 good weapon on that category the skill will be good.

 

Here how it is going to work

 

Excalibur (Exalted slot compatible with all Swords.)(minor rework )

Spoiler

Slash Dash

Base damage is equal to the equipped weapon base damage and scales with power strength

Has 400% combo count

Emits exalted Blade waves even if the exated blade is not currently equipped

Exalted Blade

Forces the weapon to equip the Exalted Blade as a stance.

Power Strength increases the weapon base damage

The weapon will Emit energy waves

 

Valkyr Talon (Exalted slot compatible with all Claws)

Spoiler

 

Forces the weapon to equip the Hysteria Stance.

Power Strength increases the weapon base damage

The weapon gives the user invulnerability and life steal while in use.

 

Wukong Iron Staff (Exalted slot compatible with all Staffs)

Spoiler

 

Forces the weapon to equip Primal Fury as a stance

Power Strength increases the weapon base damage

The weapon increases ranges with combo counter (reinstated)

 

Baruuck (Exalted slot compatible with all Sparing Weapons)

Spoiler

 

Forces the weapon to equip Desert Wind as a stance.

Power Strength increases the weapon base damage

The weapon will Emit energy waves

 

Hildryn (Exalted slot compatible with all Wrist Mounted Secondaries)

Spoiler

 

Equips the mod “shield battery" into the exilus slot allowing the weapon to work during Aegis Strom

Power Strength increases the weapon base damage

Cost Shields Instead of Ammo to fire

 

Ivara (Exalted slot compatible with all Bows) (minor rework )

Spoiler

 

Artemis Bow

Equips the Mod "Artemis Pupil´s " into the exilus slot of the bow giving an Innate Split Flights effect to the weapon (weapon incompatible with this mods will not be affected)

Power Strength increases the weapon base damage

Cost energy to fire

Navigator (reworked and renamed to Called Shot )

Ivara calls where her next shot will land

Tap

Marks a position (on an enemy or ground ), all projectiles launched when Ivara launches her next projectile will attempt to land on that spot ( applies the damage buff old navigor had too)

Hold

Old Navigator

 

Titania (Exalted Slot compatible with Dual Secondaries and Melee)

Spoiler

 

Dex Pixia

Compatible with all Dual Secondaries

Power strength increases the weapon base damage

Equips the Mod Faery Craft into the weapon exilus slot giving a “Pax Charge “effect

Diwata

It´s there I guess

 

Mesa (Compatible with all hitscan secondaries.) (heavily reworked)

Spoiler

 

No Longer has an aim bot or movement restriction. (rework)

Cost per second reduced (rework)

Equips Dead Eye into the weapon Exilus slot.Dead Eye has the fallowing effect 

Hitting enemies builds up dead eye buff. Dead eye increases mesa damage and firing speed and reload speed. Hitting head shots generates five times as much Dead Eye.

Holstering this weapon will active Dead Eye and Mesa will fire the weapon once per dead eye stack until there no targets left. She enters a stance Similar to “Death Blossom “ (Reaper Overwatch ) while firing in this manner.

 

Atlas (Compatible with all Fist weapons)

Spoiler

 

Tapping 1 will use the weapon equipped on the exalted slot to strike once with overwhelming power.

Has its own stance (the dash thing is now just a unique melee hit, has the same properties that it has now but technically speaking it is part of stance)

The weapon receives base damage based on the player power strength

This stance has a massive damage per hit stance multiplier

This stance has its own combo counter  

Has its own stance (the dash thing is now just a unique melee hit, has the same properties that it has now but technically speaking it is part of stance)

 

Khorra (Compatible with all Whips)

Spoiler

 

Tapping 1 will use the weapon equipped on the exalted slot to strike once with overwhelming power.

Has its own stance (gives the extra mod capacitu )

The weapon receives base damage based on the player power strength

This stance has a massive damage per hit stance multiplier

 

Gara (Compatible with all Heavy Blades)

Spoiler

 

Tapping 1 will use the weapon equipped on the exalted slot to strike once with overwhelming power. Tap to send it as spear, hold to swipe.

Has its own stance ( gives capacity )

The weapon receives base damage based on the player power strength

This stance has a massive damage per hit stance multiplier

 

 

Additionally

All currently availed exalted weapons will be grandfathered into the new system as a unique weapon available only to the correspondent frame and slot (works similar to Garuda´s claw), these “default “ weapon will make the reworked skill have the same stats and properties they have right now. Any weapon equipped in this slot can equip the “exalted weapon” skin. Exalted weapon can equip set mods and acolyte mods. The set mods effects are only active when the exalted weapon is in use ( the set mods on the “normal “ weapon of the same slot (melee, secondary or primary ) will be disabled while the exalted weapon is active). Riven mods will be available to weapons equipped on the exalted slot.

In this framework all exalted weapons will be viable as long as there is single good choice o the weapon category of choice.

 

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1 hour ago, keikogi said:

Diwata

It´s there I guess

lolw xD

I actually weirdly enough would agree to this! its sounds like a really good idea (besides a mesa rework, never get rid of auto aim in any of your suggestions).

it would nerf baruuk, since desert wind is the best melee weapon in the game, BUT that would be fair to bring all other exalted user on par! and baruuk is mostly overkill anyway even in steelpath mot. (please dont just nerf this DE!)

its an upvote from me!

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31 minutes ago, SmokinDice said:

lolw xD

That what it can be said about it.

31 minutes ago, SmokinDice said:

(besides a mesa rework, never get rid of auto aim in any of your suggestions).

THere aim bot but it is backloaded instead of frontloaded. About rewroking it , as it is right now is closer to atlas fist or khora whip than a proper exalted wepon. If it where to be as it is now it should just be stat stick weapon but I'm not going to touch the riven debacle here. 

34 minutes ago, SmokinDice said:

it would nerf baruuk, since desert wind is the best melee weapon in the game, BUT that would be fair to bring all other exalted user on par! and baruuk is mostly overkill anyway even in steelpath mot. (please dont just nerf this DE!)

It won´t nerf him , he just does not benefit from it because he already has the best sparing weapon =. Look at this note 

2 hours ago, keikogi said:

All currently availed exalted weapons will be grandfathered into the new system as a unique weapon available only to the correspondent frame and slot(works similar to Garuda´s claw ).

 

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3 minutes ago, keikogi said:

All currently availed exalted weapons will be grandfathered into the new system as a unique weapon available only to the correspondent frame and slot(works similar to Garuda´s claw ).

ah I see I didnt read that part sorry! 😄 (would still be okay though, a trade I would take any day! and thats talking about one of my 3 main frames right now ^^)

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9 hours ago, keikogi said:

Dex Pixia

Compatible with all Dual Secondaries

Gives a “Pax Charge “effect

Diwata

It´s there I guess

The solution is simple. Titania can use archwing weapons. DE just needs to restore the animation. And after that happens, we will continue to wait for the archmelee buff, but this is already a good thing.

Considering how good some archguns are, this would be fine and just as powerful as pistols except for arcanes, but that might also change in the future + Titania can benefit from crit arcane by colliding with walls, which gives a significant damage boost.

And no additional effects are needed here. Archwing is already unique, it just needs a break from the limitations of weapons and companions. With this razorwing will truly be the perfect ability.

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2 hours ago, selig_fay said:

The solution is simple. Titania can use archwing weapons. DE just needs to restore the animation. And after that happens, we will continue to wait for the archmelee buff, but this is already a good thing.

Considering how good some archguns are, this would be fine and just as powerful as pistols except for arcanes, but that might also change in the future + Titania can benefit from crit arcane by colliding with walls, which gives a significant damage boost.

And no additional effects are needed here. Archwing is already unique, it just needs a break from the limitations of weapons and companions. With this razorwing will truly be the perfect ability.

While I think Titania should have been able to equip Arch guns from the beginning as far as internal consistency of my Idea I have to make her compatible with Ak, dual , twin secondaries. Her Dex Pixia uses Secondary Mods so her Exalted Slot must fit secondary weapons.

Also the effect is there for the sake of consistency , every other Slot has a effect on top of giving the weapon damage based on power str ( even if it a bad effect like shots costing shields )  

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24 minutes ago, keikogi said:

While I think Titania should have been able to equip Arch guns from the beginning as far as internal consistency of my Idea I have to make her compatible with Ak, dual , twin secondaries. Her Dex Pixia uses Secondary Mods so her Exalted Slot must fit secondary weapons.

Also the effect is there for the sake of consistency , every other Slot has a effect on top of giving the weapon damage based on power str ( even if it a bad effect like shots costing shields )  

It doesn't matter what mods dex pixia uses. DE considers this archwing a weapon, now it's just a crutch. Prior to one of the updates,Dex pixia did not have exalted weapons and used the statstick of the primary weapon.

Archwing weapons will be easier to stabilize for Titania, because there are few of them, they already have battery mechanics and combat animations (trust me, normal melee animations are terrible in archwing). I don’t think it should be fueled by double pistols.  Archwing weapons fit perfectly into the theme. And the archwing weapon is built to fight vs large targets, so it won't cause any small size problems.

On the other hand, I will not worry if the strength stat does not give the damage bonus. This is what makes Dex pixia and Divata unique, let it stay with them. I would prefer the low rate of fire (charge rate) and attack speed bonus from strength for archguns. But then again, I'll be fine if not. Free use of archguns is worth it.

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1 hour ago, Rawbeard said:

what does that even MEAN?

Let me givr an example. 

You have Excalibur , there is the exalted blade on your Arsenal options.

Under my suggestion , you can just click there and choose another sword to use during your 4th skill. 

The stats of the Skill will be changed for accommodate. For example, if you equipped the broken war on the exalted blade slot. The damage of the skill would be reduced to 187 , critical chance increased to 35% , critical damage mutiplier increased to 2.2 , status chence increased to 20%.  Even with the diferent stats the weapon would behave as normal , send energy waves and use " the exalted blade " stance.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Why not make all. Psudo exalteds like GAruda talons aka disappear if you have a weapon but they are always there and apply stats for their ability 

 

For Excalibur maybe he should rely on what is he holding currently since slash dash slashes with what is he using right? 

EDITED:Fixed spelling 

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Your idea sounds good on paper, but I am not sure if this can really function. I like the idea to get different base stats depending on the weapon, this would make the weapons more personel. What I currently don't get :

  • Do you have a normal weapon and the exalted or will your normal weapon be turned into exalted (e.g. does Excalibur have two different swords or one with two different modi )?
  • What will happen to Riven Mods and Sets?

And as a general question : What makes exalted weapons inferior to normal ones? Maybe it would be better to work around this difference that to build up a new complex system.

 

P.S. : I like the idear for Ivaras Navigator, sounds a lot more useable then now.

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3 hours ago, Naneel said:

Do you have a normal weapon and the exalted or will your normal weapon be turned into exalted (e.g. does Excalibur have two different swords or one with two different modi )?

In the case of excalibur he has two melee slots. 1 normal slot and another sword slot. The sword equiped into the sword slot will become the exalted blade when you cast 4 ( the only catch is the sword equiped into the sword slot must equip the exalted blade stance ). They can be modded separatley 

3 hours ago, Naneel said:

What will happen to Riven Mods and Set

If you equip broken war on theexalted blade slot you can equip broken war riven on it. Set mods work to but their effects are only active if the weapon is active. It was on the note section of the post 

On 2020-09-08 at 6:21 PM, keikogi said:

All currently availed exalted weapons will be grandfathered into the new system as a unique weapon available only to the correspondent frame and slot (works similar to Garuda´s claw), these “default “ weapon will make the reworked skill have the same stats and properties they have right now. Any weapon equipped in this slot can equip the “exalted weapon” skin. Exalted weapon can equip set mods and acolyte mods. The set mods effects are only active when the exalted weapon is in use ( the set mods on the “normal “ weapon of the same slot (melee, secondary or primary ) will be disabled while the exalted weapon is active). Riven mods will be available to weapons equipped on the exalted slot.

 

3 hours ago, Naneel said:

And as a general question : What makes exalted weapons inferior to normal ones? Maybe it would be better to work around this difference that to build up a new complex system.

Numbers. Before melee 3.0 exalted weapon had around 3 times as much damage as a nomal sword. Today most weapon can match their base damage and have access to better mods so there are a  lot of exalted weapon are worse than their normal conterpats. Case in point wukong stick is his most replaced skill in the helminth system ( as far as I can recall ). The system isnt that complex in game it just allows you to equip a extra weapon and that weapon must equip a mod ( the mod tied with the skill effects ) , it is simpler than the current system of both statsticks and exalted weapons (and S#&$loads of rules for what passives carry over , for example vanka prima combo effect applies to land slide but the falcor combo stasis effects does not , under my system the effects always carry over. another example is mod compatibility my system is quite simple if the weapon can equip it normaly it also can equip it when used as a skill , no riven or set execptions) . It is also future proof because it can keep up with the slow march of power creep because the exalted weapon will always be the best on its category because it will be the best weapon on that category + the exalted effect 

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Thanks for your explanation.

vor 54 Minuten schrieb keikogi:

Numbers. Before melee 3.0 exalted weapon had around 3 times as much damage as a nomal sword. Today most weapon can match their base damage and have access to better mods so there are a  lot of exalted weapon are worse than their normal conterpats.

If numbers are the only problem, wouldn't it be better to just increase them on Exalted weapons (either base stats or better scaling with power strength). This does not mean I don't like your idea, but it could be a simpler solution to buffing exalted weapons.

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9 minutes ago, Naneel said:

If numbers are the only problem, wouldn't it be better to just increase them on Exalted weapons (either base stats or better scaling with power strength). This does not mean I don't like your idea, but it could be a simpler solution to buffing exalted weapons.

it messes with the power scaling of the game because you have acess to exalted weapons way early them good gear. For example if you buff exalted blade to 500 base damage no novice will ever have a reason to invest in gear until really late on the game. If you keep give better streght mods to make them better well this will throw off the rest of the skill of the gama because they work of % or lvl scaling.

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On 2020-09-09 at 5:21 AM, keikogi said:

All currently availed exalted weapons will be grandfathered into the new system as a unique weapon available only to the correspondent frame and slot (works similar to Garuda´s claw), these “default “ weapon will make the reworked skill have the same stats and properties they have right now. Any weapon equipped in this slot can equip the “exalted weapon” skin. Exalted weapon can equip set mods and acolyte mods. The set mods effects are only active when the exalted weapon is in use ( the set mods on the “normal “ weapon of the same slot (melee, secondary or primary ) will be disabled while the exalted weapon is active). Riven mods will be available to weapons equipped on the exalted slot.

^ That would have been a better tl;dr.

When I read "remove the weapon, keep the effect" in your actual Tl;dr, I almost flipped the table. 

 

On 2020-09-09 at 7:02 AM, SmokinDice said:

lolw xD

I actually weirdly enough would agree to this! its sounds like a really good idea (besides a mesa rework, never get rid of auto aim in any of your suggestions).

it would nerf baruuk, since desert wind is the best melee weapon in the game, BUT that would be fair to bring all other exalted user on par! and baruuk is mostly overkill anyway even in steelpath mot. (please dont just nerf this DE!)

its an upvote from me!

Lol. So you want to return Baruuk to his launch state where many players did not think he was worth farming for? Locked behind that syndicate, and having a inane Restraint meter locking his ultimate? And all that farming to obtain a frame who performs on par or weaker than Excal (a starter frame)? For... "fairness". Interesting idea of "fair" right there.

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3 minutes ago, Xepthrichros said:

^ That would have been a better tl;dr.

When I read "remove the weapon, keep the effect" in your actual Tl;dr, I almost flipped the table. 

I guess I should front load the post with that. 

4 minutes ago, Xepthrichros said:

Lol. So you want to return Baruuk to his launch state where many players did not think he was worth farming for? Locked behind that syndicate, and having a inane Restraint meter locking his ultimate? 

You misunsderstood the guy. He initialy tought my system would remove the current exalted weapons ( they are graandfathared in ) since no sparing weapon can mach desert wind isane crit chance he tought desert wind was a weapon caught in the cross fire.

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vor 33 Minuten schrieb keikogi:

it messes with the power scaling of the game because you have acess to exalted weapons way early them good gear. For example if you buff exalted blade to 500 base damage no novice will ever have a reason to invest in gear until really late on the game. If you keep give better streght mods to make them better well this will throw off the rest of the skill of the gama because they work of % or lvl scaling.

Okay to high base damage migth be a problem. But why should this not work with Ability Strength , weapons in general don't scale with level or %, or did I miss something?

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11 minutes ago, Naneel said:

Okay to high base damage migth be a problem. But why should this not work with Ability Strength , weapons in general don't scale with level or %, or did I miss something?

Let me explain with an example. Ig you change the power str mods you affect way more than just exalted weapon. For example: Xaku needs 200 % power str to get 100% armor strip, you usually need to dedicate at least two to 3 mod slots to achieve that , if you buff power str mods it will give Xaku more mod slots to stack range. While Xaku is not particularly concerning, I’m just showing how increasing the strength of power str mods would trickle down in other frame design.

Another easy example is Chroma, chormas heavily buffs weapons. If your buff power strength mods Chroma will benefit. Since Chroma benefits both from the slow march of weapon power creep and from the extra power strength theoretically given to exalted weapon frames a way to catch up, he will have a compounded power creep. Weapon Power Creep X Power Strength Power Creep. Same goes for all frames with weapon damage buffs.

Trying to catch up exalted weapon trouyght more power str would just buff more weapon buff frames and mess the breaking points of debuff skills.

Given them level scaling could help but more power str would not.

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vor 2 Stunden schrieb keikogi:

Let me explain with an example. Ig you change the power str mods you affect way more than just exalted weapon. For example: Xaku needs 200 % power str to get 100% armor strip, you usually need to dedicate at least two to 3 mod slots to achieve that , if you buff power str mods it will give Xaku more mod slots to stack range. While Xaku is not particularly concerning, I’m just showing how increasing the strength of power str mods would trickle down in other frame design.

Another easy example is Chroma, chormas heavily buffs weapons. If your buff power strength mods Chroma will benefit. Since Chroma benefits both from the slow march of weapon power creep and from the extra power strength theoretically given to exalted weapon frames a way to catch up, he will have a compounded power creep. Weapon Power Creep X Power Strength Power Creep. Same goes for all frames with weapon damage buffs.

Trying to catch up exalted weapon trouyght more power str would just buff more weapon buff frames and mess the breaking points of debuff skills.

Given them level scaling could help but more power str would not.

I think you misunderstood what I meaned with better Strength scaling. I didn't mean to make the Mods better, but instead give the exalted weapons more damage out of Ability Strength.

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1 hour ago, Naneel said:

I think you misunderstood what I meaned with better Strength scaling. I didn't mean to make the Mods better, but instead give the exalted weapons more damage out of Ability Strength.

Could work well but it would break the game rules for power str and damage since it just fallows the simple formula Power str x Damage. I´m pretty sure power str always just increases any number affected by it using the power str x Number . There are caps  for some skill but I can´t recall a skill that does not fallow N x Power strenght rule. Breaking this rule for exalted weapons would make the game have even more complexity under the hood (witch is worse than viseble complexity ). Maybe adding a "skill damage stat "could adress this since this would not affect buffs and debuffs.

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