Achieving "Family" status reward should've been a Mech Mod!!

[Felsagger]

11 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Answer: When you hit max rank, you don't need anything else to progress in the syndicate, so cosmetics is the reward. 👇

 

You proved my point here. Thank you so much. 

Instead of triviality as a reward there could be better ones such as the RESOLUTION of the story about the Entrati family. A reward could be more lore to explore or a variant of the Necramech more capable and powerful giving a good set of weapons. 

When the player is rewarded there is satisfaction for all the time played leveling up the Entrati syndicate. Why should I reach rank five when the only reward is aesthetics. Once the player reaches lower ranks getting the Helminth, weapons and mech the entrati syndicate is forgotten turning Deimos into another content island such as Plains of Eidolon and Fortuna. 

DE throws away their own GAAS market because the player loses interest completing the task. If the play stays more time the probability of spending increases because the exchange is entertainment for payment. 

DE design is flawed and asinine to say the least. They are being counterproductive with their own GAAS system. Once I leveled up all the Entrati and got all the mods I played other games and spent money buying a new game. 

DE loses money because their design is flawed. 

 

11 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

 

 

NO, Loid's syndicate is NOT a part of the Entrati syndicate, just as the Quills is not tied to Ostron standing. You can hit max rank for Loid, before maxing with Mother.

Yes he is. He's part of the new Deimos update. Without Loid the player can't get the Mausolon, Trumna, Sepulcrum and the other weapons. 

11 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Which is why we were given BOTH by the Entrati, your personal dislike for what you were given is fine, but not relevant to their status as rewards. That simple.

This happens when you do not know the subject of this discussion. 

This is not about my personal dislike, this is about the dimwitted design of DE failing to retain players for the right reasons on a new update. Rewards should be equably distributed. The mission structure should be better thought out and there should be at least a little story with a conclusion so the story is wrapped up properly. In game design stories has a conclusion a beginning and end with a resolution. 

Doesn't matter how much you try to troll or how much you defend DE. This case is not about my dissatisfaction. In this case it's their own kiosk that is falling apart. They are failing to retain players because the way the game is structured annoys more than just being entertainment. Deimos provided a lot of quality but their servers are becoming empty. The practice of content islands continues. It has to stop because the game becomes a bore fest. 

DE AND QUALITY should be on the same sentence. 

DE AND DELIVERY should be on the same sentence. 

DE AND TIME PLAYED REWARDS should be on the same sentence. 

DE AND PLAYER RETENTION should be on the same sentence. 

WARFRAME AND FUN should be on the same sentence. 

 

Catch the drift? 

[SneakyErvin]

22 hours ago, Felsagger said:

Another fatal flaw in the new Deimos update was the excessive insistence in maintenance activities such as fishing, hunting and mining.

What? I dont think I've spent so little time on fishing, mining and conservation in any of the other two zones. Most of my gathering in Deimos was done over 2 hours or so the first day, then I had to do some "extended" searching for a Panzer Vulp in order to create one. By far the best zone in that regard, plus everything is much more tighly packed so mining is alot faster, aswell as conservation can be done on the fly as you do other things.

[BahamutKaiser]

Nacraloid Syndicate is for mechs. 

[Felsagger]

11 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

What? I dont think I've spent so little time on fishing, mining and conservation in any of the other two zones. Most of my gathering in Deimos was done over 2 hours or so the first day, then I had to do some "extended" searching for a Panzer Vulp in order to create one. By far the best zone in that regard, plus everything is much more tighly packed so mining is alot faster, aswell as conservation can be done on the fly as you do other things.

 

It's a time gate activity imposed on the progression. 

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

4 hours ago, Felsagger said:

You proved my point here. Thank you so much. 

Proved that you don't have one, you mean? Because your point was that the cosmetic wasn't a valid reward due to it "not contributing to further progression" which is impossible once we already hit max rank?

 

4 hours ago, Felsagger said:

Instead of triviality as a reward there could be better ones such as the RESOLUTION of the story about the Entrati family. A reward could be more lore to explore or a variant of the Necramech more capable and powerful giving a good set of weapons. 

How many times are we going to have to go over the same ground the Necraloid syndicate is separate and apart from the Entrati syndicate. Konzu doesn't offer amp parts, why are you having trouble seeing why Mother wouldn't offer Mechs?

4 hours ago, Felsagger said:

Yes he is. He's part of the new Deimos update. Without Loid the player can't get the Mausolon, Trumna, Sepulcrum and the other weapons. 

And again without Onkko you can't get your amps and amp arcanes, that has NOTHING to do with the rest of the Ostrons on Cetus, despite them all being in the same location. Loid is not part of the Entrati syndicate. Konzu doesn't offer Quill rewards, Onkko doesn't offer Ostron rewards. Say it with me "Dif.. fer.. ent.... different." It means 'not the same'. See?

4 hours ago, Felsagger said:

This happens when you do not know the subject of this discussion. 

This is not about my personal dislike, this is about the dimwitted design of DE failing to retain players for the right reasons on a new update. Rewards should be equably distributed. The mission structure should be better thought out and there should be at least a little story with a conclusion so the story is wrapped up properly. In game design stories has a conclusion a beginning and end with a resolution. 

Of course it's about your personal dislikes of the rewards, but I suppose it could be because you don't grasp how the two syndicates are not both the same.... despite Loid repeatedly telling us that Mother doesn't know what he's been doing in the basement and not to tell her. Many people want those cosmetics and try to collect them. There are actual captura competitions in the game for rewards. Have you somehow missed all of the news items in the orbiter display since, like, forever?

 

4 hours ago, Felsagger said:

The practice of content islands continues.

Oh good grief. The update literally brought all of the content together because we need resources from everywhere for the Helminth but you're still trying to use that line? Seriously? Do you even grasp how that works? Seriously, lay off the silly catch phrases, when they're that easily disproven.

 

 

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

What? I dont think I've spent so little time on fishing, mining and conservation in any of the other two zones. Most of my gathering in Deimos was done over 2 hours or so the first day, then I had to do some "extended" searching for a Panzer Vulp in order to create one. By far the best zone in that regard, plus everything is much more tighly packed so mining is alot faster, aswell as conservation can be done on the fly as you do other things.

First day I mined 2 deposits right at the start of the quest and said "yup that's new", caught the fish required for the quest, and mostly stopped doing both after that, because of how buggy the update was. But the bounties dropped loot in abundance, and while I had to do some conservation for the ranking up and the helminth segment tags, a lot of what I have came from stumbling on weakened new-pets during bounties, and I made a couple of those early captures by accident. 😅

I did so some dedicated mining runs later, because I needed some extra thaumica or something, but honestly most of my dedicated mining time since HOD dropped has been over Venus, trying to get the ores for crafting.

Deimos really hit a sweet spot as far as "you don't NEED to do these if you don't want to, but if you do you can get more faster" in my opinion.

[Felsagger]

57 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Proved that you don't have one, you mean? Because your point was that the cosmetic wasn't a valid reward due to it "not contributing to further progression" which is impossible once we already hit max rank?

How many times are we going to have to go over the same ground the Necraloid syndicate is separate and apart from the Entrati syndicate. Konzu doesn't offer amp parts, why are you having trouble seeing why Mother wouldn't offer Mechs?

And again without Onkko you can't get your amps and amp arcanes, that has NOTHING to do with the rest of the Ostrons on Cetus, despite them all being in the same location. Loid is not part of the Entrati syndicate. Konzu doesn't offer Quill rewards, Onkko doesn't offer Ostron rewards. Say it with me "Dif.. fer.. ent.... different." It means 'not the same'. See?

Of course it's about your personal dislikes of the rewards, but I suppose it could be because you don't grasp how the two syndicates are not both the same.... despite Loid repeatedly telling us that Mother doesn't know what he's been doing in the basement and not to tell her. Many people want those cosmetics and try to collect them. There are actual captura competitions in the game for rewards. Have you somehow missed all of the news items in the orbiter display since, like, forever?

Oh good grief. The update literally brought all of the content together because we need resources from everywhere for the Helminth but you're still trying to use that line? Seriously? Do you even grasp how that works? Seriously, lay off the silly catch phrases, when they're that easily disproven.

First day I mined 2 deposits right at the start of the quest and said "yup that's new", caught the fish required for the quest, and mostly stopped doing both after that, because of how buggy the update was. But the bounties dropped loot in abundance, and while I had to do some conservation for the ranking up and the helminth segment tags, a lot of what I have came from stumbling on weakened new-pets during bounties, and I made a couple of those early captures by accident. 

I did so some dedicated mining runs later, because I needed some extra thaumica or something, but honestly most of my dedicated mining time since HOD dropped has been over Venus, trying to get the ores for crafting.

Deimos really hit a sweet spot as far as "you don't NEED to do these if you don't want to, but if you do you can get more faster" in my opinion.

 

"The update literally brought all of the content together because we need resources from everywhere for the Helminth"

 

That excuse doesn't work.

 

 

Connecting the content islands doesn't happen magically by making the player recollect resources from Fortuna, Rail Jack or Plains of Eidolons. 

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

5 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

 

"The update literally brought all of the content together because we need resources from everywhere for the Helminth"

 

That excuse doesn't work.

 

 

Connecting the content islands doesn't happen magically by making the player recollect resources from Fortuna, Rail Jack or Plains of Eidolons. 

Yes, yes it literally does. That's the whole point, if you need to revisit the content after you have completed it, it's not actually an island, at that point it's become something that is a continuing part of the larger whole. 

[Felsagger]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Yes, yes it literally does. That's the whole point, if you need to revisit the content after you have completed it, it's not actually an island, at that point it's become something that is a continuing part of the larger whole. 

 

 

Nope it doesn't. 

 

 

Cheapest way of connecting things without working them. Typical DE. Subsuming is another evasion of the real problem that DE faces. Their game needs work on Fortuna, Railjack, and Plains of Eidolon. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

19 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

 

 

Nope it doesn't. 

 

 

Cheapest way of connecting things without working them. Typical DE. Subsuming is another evasion of the real problem that DE faces. Their game needs work on Fortuna, Railjack, and Plains of Eidolon. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Then you clearly don't understand the term you are trying to use. If it's connected to and needed in an ongoing way, for something else, it's not an island. 

[Felsagger]

1 hour ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Then you clearly don't understand the term you are trying to use. 

 

Says you. Ok next. 

Zitat: Content Island. 

• gameplayloop separated from the rest of the game (meaning the missions are different and separated from what we usually do)
• you (Player) have to take part in this gameplay loop more or less exclusively and repeat it several times to make meaningful progress
• modifications of the Environment (new Tiles, conditions), the Enemies (types, resistances, abilities) or our Abilities (Gearwheel/Operator//Abilities/Weapons/...)
• unique resources you can only/mostly farm there
• you (Player) can spend those resources only on stuff also related to this part of the game
• other rewards from rotations/shops can be earned nowhere else in the game

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

42 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

 

• you (Player) can spend those resources only on stuff also related to this part of the game

You are a singularly unobservant person, aren't you? 

3 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Oh good grief. The update literally brought all of the content together because we need resources from everywhere for the Helminth but you're still trying to use that line? Seriously? Do you even grasp how that works? Seriously, lay off the silly catch phrases, when they're that easily disproven.

Here it's in bold now. Maybe that will help? 

[Felsagger]

1 hour ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

You are a singularly unobservant person, aren't you? 

When you are going to 'debate', first and foremost know first the material for discussion.  Trolling doesn't count as a formal response. Contributes nothing. 

 

1 hour ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Here it's in bold now. Maybe that will help? 

The update literally brought all of the content together because we need resources from everywhere for the Helminth

• you (Player) can spend those resources only on stuff also related to this part of the game

Your problem is reading comprehension. 

 

Can you spend Thaumica anywhere else? No. 

Can you spend Grandmother crystal chards anywhere else? No. 

Can you trade minerals found in Deimos in other places? No. 

Once the player achieves all the items in Deimos there is no need to return. 

Once the player achieves all the items in Plains of Eidolons there is no need to return. 

Once the player gets the items in Fortuna there is no need to return. 

 

Helminth is an acquired device that only is available on Deimos. Once obtained it gathers resources everywhere. That doesn't tie up content islands. A content island stops being a content island when other tools, lore and connection are achieved instead of farming resources. 

 A content island stops being a content island when the rail jack can hover over Fortuna giving support resources and special perks or artillery to the war frames. 

A content island stops being a content island when you can use your mech in Rail Jack cleaning all the foes. Once the foes are dispatched the mech should be unmanned for tasks inside the ship. 

A content island stops being a content island when the items collected in Deimos speeds things up in Fortuna giving some sort of reputation or advantage. 

Parts of the game are related in lore, design, use of items and so on. 

 

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

29 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

When you are going to 'debate', first and foremost know first the material for discussion.  Trolling doesn't count as a formal response. Contributes nothing. 

 

• you (Player) can spend those resources only on stuff also related to this part of the game

Your problem is reading comprehension. 

 

Can you spend Thaumica anywhere else? No. 

Can you spend Grandmother crystal chards anywhere else? No. 

Can you trade minerals found in Deimos in other places? No. 

Once the player achieves all the items in Deimos there is no need to return. 

Once the player achieves all the items in Plains of Eidolons there is no need to return. 

Once the player gets the items in Fortuna there is no need to return. 

 

Helminth is an acquired device that only is available on Deimos. Once obtained it gathers resources everywhere. That doesn't tie up content islands. A content island stops being a content island when other tools, lore and connection are achieved instead of farming resources. 

 A content island stops being a content island when the rail jack can hover over Fortuna giving support resources and special perks or artillery to the war frames. 

A content island stops being a content island when you can use your mech in Rail Jack cleaning all the foes. Once the foes are dispatched the mech should be unmanned for tasks inside the ship. 

A content island stops being a content island when the items collected in Deimos speeds things up in Fortuna giving some sort of reputation or advantage. 

Parts of the game are related in lore, design, use of items and so on. 

 

Helminth. Resources from all over the game. All tied in to one system. None of those is an island any more. Because of the fact that they all tie into Helminth. Because you are able to spend resources from each and every one of them in the Helminth system. Not islands. 

 

Keep reading it. At some point it will click. 

[Felsagger]

55 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Helminth. Resources from all over the game. All tied in to one system. None of those is an island any more. Because of the fact that they all tie into Helminth. Because you are able to spend resources from each and every one of them in the Helminth system. Not islands. 

 

Keep reading it. At some point it will click. 

 

The purpose of any discussion is assessment and help to other users. That purpose ran it's course. You may respond as much you like and troll as much you like. The answer was already given in the previous post. 

 

 

[(PSN)haphazardlynamed]

I would have settled for Daughter's phone number

but I guess a mech mod sounds ok too....

[SneakyErvin]

22 hours ago, Felsagger said:

It's a time gate activity imposed on the progression. 

No that would not be the definition of timegate since you can do all of those to your hearts content. A timegate is the daily standing cap aswell as the timer tied to buying tokens, though the token timer is trivial. The game however doesnt tell you to stop mining, fishing, conserving or doing bounties. Heck, Deimos is the most forgiving place when it comes to time management, since you can grind standing on days when you have time and then spend it on days when you dont have time to play, since it uses tokens instead of straight up rep, where the tokens have no cap. I think the actual word you are looking for is timesink, which is a whole different thing. And even the sink is small on Deimos since we get so much from just doing bounties and vaults.

21 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Deimos really hit a sweet spot as far as "you don't NEED to do these if you don't want to, but if you do you can get more faster" in my opinion.

Spot on observation, I feel the exact same way.

[844448]

Why should we get a necramech mod for reaching family status when they're from necraloid syndicate?

[Felsagger]

Here we go again. 

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

No that would not be the definition of timegate since you can do all of those to your hearts content.

Time gate has one parameter. It is global. It's not exclusive. It's inclusive. 

 

Everything that requires TIME. 

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

A timegate is the daily standing cap aswell as the timer tied to buying tokens,

That is included in a time gate activity. Yes. Everything that affects, expand and requires TIME. 

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

 

though the token timer is trivial. The game however doesnt tell you to stop mining, fishing, conserving or doing bounties. Heck, Deimos is the most forgiving place when it comes to time management,

Welcome to THAUMICA. 

Welcome to AVICHAEA. 

Welcome to Mod drop chances for the Necramech. (Partially fixed)

Welcome to Grandmother Crystal Chard requirement for the Trumna and the Sepulcrum. Each requires 20. (Only way you get a combo of five or four Grandmother tokens happens when Son's tokens are included in the mix) People who wants to speed up acquisition are forced to mine, hunt and fish.

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

 

since you can grind standing on days when you have time and then spend it on days when you dont have time to play,

Hence a time gate. 

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

since it uses tokens instead of straight up rep, where the tokens have no cap. I think the actual word you are looking for is timesink, which is a whole different thing. And even the sink is small on Deimos since we get so much from just doing bounties and vaults.\

 

A time sink is included in the set of time gate. 

Anything that extends artificially the progression of a game is a time gate. 

[(XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom]

7 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

Welcome to THAUMICA. 

Welcome to AVICHAEA.

Thaumica is pretty easy to farm though? You don’t need much either. I have like 2k from a few focused grind session of like 45 min.

Avichaea don’t matter beyond the required  5 for Entrai rank 3 either. After that you just ignore them. Leveling predasite/vulpaphya companions and trading them in for son tokens is pretty efficient.

I’ve fished a grand total of 4 times. Only did mining for the rate gems, nothing else.

The only resources that are an inconvenience are fass/vome residue and the rare gems. Everything else is easy to acquire in large quantities.

[Felsagger]

Just now, (XB1)TheWayOfWisdom said:

Thaumica is pretty easy to farm though? You don’t need much either. I have like 2k from a few focused grind session of like 45 min.

With the current update the abundance increased

Just now, (XB1)TheWayOfWisdom said:

Avichaea don’t matter beyond the required  5 for Entrai rank 3 either. After that you just ignore them. Leveling predasite/vulpaphya companions and trading them in for son tokens is pretty efficient.

Hence hunting is required. 

Just now, (XB1)TheWayOfWisdom said:

 

The only resources that are an inconvenience are fass/vome residue and the rare gems. Everything else is easy to acquire in large quantities.

Yes, with TIME. 

[(XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom]

2 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

With the current update the abundance increased

I see no patch notes regarding thaumica, care to point me to where?

4 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

Hence hunting is required. 

A trivial amount sure, what of it. Might as well complain that playing bounties is required.

5 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

Yes, with TIME. 

Uh yea, doing anything in warframe requires time, no matter how minuscule. What of it

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

32 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

Here we go again. 

The problem here is that you're try to use terms that mean something very specific, to refer to things that are totally unrelated to what they mean. And no, you're not going to be able to get everyone to change the established meaning of the terms just because you figure they ought to mean something else. 

We get that you want to use the same catchphrases that you heard the cool kids using, but you really are doing it wrong. Try to make sure that you really understand the meanings of the phrases, because it will save you a lot of time and effort trying to convince people to accept your new "definitions". 

[Felsagger]

28 minutes ago, (XB1)TheWayOfWisdom said:

I see no patch notes regarding thaumica, care to point me to where?

The issue was solved with hot fixes. I can find more. On PS4 and Xbox. 

Quote

A trivial amount sure, what of it. Might as well complain that playing bounties is required.

Complaint? No. Design flaw yes. 

When a world is presented as brand new and the hunting is bugged the presentation gives a bad taste. 

Quote

Uh yea, doing anything in warframe requires time, no matter how minuscule. What of it

True, but can such activities be FUN too? 

[Felsagger]

10 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

The problem here is that you're try to use terms that mean something very specific, to refer to things that are totally unrelated to what they mean. And no, you're not going to be able to get everyone to change the established meaning of the terms just because you figure they ought to mean something else. 

We get that you want to use the same catchphrases that you heard the cool kids using, but you really are doing it wrong. Try to make sure that you really understand the meanings of the phrases, because it will save you a lot of time and effort trying to convince people to accept your new "definitions". 

Quoted definitions are better linked to the source or if a term is introduced then a reference should be given. In any thesis or scientific writing a term that is specified as a definition requires a reference or at least a context. 

When a situation in the game is being discussed then the parameters involved should be mentioned so people understand the reference. The term quoted is time. Time gate involves anything that extends the mission artificially. This is a consensus that was reached in previous discussions. 

I don't use 'catch phrases'. I use the terminology that the board defines as a standard. Concepts are coined in a way that encompasses a certain set of ideas. I have the references and I follow the table of discussion. 

If I am going to introduce a definition to a discussion then I write DEFINITION with a side note indicated that such term is 'created' or 'recreated' according to the context of discussion. 

Yes formalities in a game that is defined over parametric variables requires rigor. I can't disagree with such approach. War Frame uses lots of parameters to define the game play. 

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

3 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

Time gate involves anything that extends the mission artificially.

No.