Viral and Slash melee builds

[Red-.-]

Hi All!

I have been playing this game for couple years now - before cetus and all these things - I have a lot hours in the game and so far I can not understand just 1 thing so I figured it's better to ask a great community. 

On a lot of builds people are using slash + viral builds one melee and I have tried that a lot of times in so many ways and even when slash is greater than viral it's nothing special in my opinion. I prefer to go with slash + corrosive and enemies are dying a lot faster when either is greater then other (also I can use corrosive against all enemies). So when I want elemental I just go for a lot of corrosive and if I want to go for slash I put weeping wounds, crit and damage (without elemental) because enemies are dying just as fast as if I used viral with slash (additional speed or range or crit damage helps me better than a little of viral). I know that "corrosive is better for armor and viral for health" but corrosive is destroying health fast enough and you got + armor damage.

That is only my opinion I am not stating anything.

Can someone who knows better about this explain me what is happening and how it works if I'm wrong?

Thanks.
 

[-CdG-Zilchy]

10 minutes ago, G1g4byt3 said:

Thanks for the explanation, I always used corrosive and it was the best element for all weapons and all enemies and never liked viral before because it was bad, always played corrosive in higher levels and it was really good all the time and when they reworked status I probably just didn't want to accept it somehow. Just tested viral on level up to 200-300  or so and seemed that corrosive is still better even after the update so I just continued to use it for levels higher than 200-300. Didn't want to bother with viral at all (just for procs from primary/2ndary), but i'll need to start using it from now on.

Long and short of it man and Uhkretor is correct, it's a bit of a meta thing. Up to around those levels, basically anything works and beyond it, Slash bleed procs are broken as hell and will work. It's more the impatience of people that have led to viral being meta, when they changed how Corrosive status worked to only strippinga a percentage of the armour instead of all of it, people lost their minds a little, the new goto became Viral and Heat combo because Heat was given a higher armour strip bonus than Corrosive and it's only fitting on 1 element instead of 2 which is nice for builds. Viral at high level is the difference between 2 seconds for an enemy to die and 4 seconds, not that much really but mainly in Survival where your kills per second are important, it's seen as a good thing and faster than priming with your secondary.

Conversely putting say Viral status build on something like Mesa peacemakers, where slash isn't a thing, really DOES make a difference over something like Corrosive. But yea if you have slash on the build, it will kill them just fine, at a fractionally slower rate once enemies are say level 1000 and above.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

6 minutes ago, Berzerkules said:

Since we have kuva nukor as a primer now, I've pretty much just stopped modding for elemental damage on slash melee. You have more room for a smite and crit dmg mod. 

About the only time I'll mod for elemental damage is if the weapon has a base element I can work with or if the weapon is not weighted for slash. 

 

I'm too lazy to prime them :D with the exception being those damn demolysts cos they are just chunky.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

3 minutes ago, Sevek7 said:

Getting an apology from you is apparently the most difficult task in the entire world. Unfortunately I have totally run out of patience. Hope you have a pleasant day too.

I'm not sure what I need to apologise for lol, I cleared up the misunderstanding by explaining my thought process. Contrary to your belief I come in here to help players not to earn their praise and adulation, this claim of stealing or claiming credit is frankly hilarious to me. Have a good one.

[Sevek7]

1 minute ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

Um I'm not quite sure where you're going with this, not sure why you're interested in credit on a forum. I was trying to clear up a misunderstanding by explaining my thought process. Why that's difficult to understand I don't know. Have a pleasant day, rest assured your credit is secure?

Getting an apology from you is apparently the most difficult task in the entire world. Unfortunately I have totally run out of patience. Hope you have a pleasant day too.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

5 minutes ago, Sevek7 said:

My friend, I do not understand what is happening here.

Let's walk through it: You made a statement in your original comment. Then I made another comment later where I pointed out a vital piece of information that was totally missing in all previous comments. You then tried to claim credit for that piece of information I added, citing your original comment as proof. I challenged you because I did not find that information in your original comment. Then you defended yourself by simply restating your original comment (even though it does not include the vital information) as if that explains why you tried to take credit for my comment. So then I challenged you again, stating that your original comment does not include that information you tried to take credit for. Then, finally, you defend yourself here by saying you didn't mention the vital information because you think OP already knows it [thereby fully admitting that you did not include the information in your comment, and therefore you do not deserve the credit that you tried to take.] 

Surely you see how absurd this is? All I expected was for you to say "Oops, I misunderstood, my bad!" Instead I got this weird goalpost-moving dodge-the-blame game. I don't usually have the patience for unreasonable people who can't admit when they're wrong, but this was probably the weirdest interaction I ever had on these forums, so I felt that I had to see it through to the end!

Um I'm not quite sure where you're going with this, not sure why you're interested in credit on a forum. I was trying to clear up a misunderstanding by explaining my thought process. Why that's difficult to understand I don't know. Have a pleasant day, rest assured your credit is secure?

[Sevek7]

1 minute ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

I can understand it but I didn't mention the armour types cos OP seemed knowledgeable enough to know them already.

My friend, I do not understand what is happening here.

Let's walk through it: You made a statement in your original comment. Then I made another comment later where I pointed out a vital piece of information that was totally missing in all previous comments. You then tried to claim credit for that piece of information I added, citing your original comment as proof. I challenged you because I did not find that information in your original comment. Then you defended yourself by simply restating your original comment (even though it does not include the vital information) as if that explains why you tried to take credit for my comment. So then I challenged you again, stating that your original comment does not include that information you tried to take credit for. Then, finally, you defend yourself here by saying you didn't mention the vital information because you think OP already knows it [thereby fully admitting that you did not include the information in your comment, and therefore you do not deserve the credit that you tried to take.] 

Surely you see how absurd this is? All I expected was for you to say "Oops, I misunderstood, my bad!" Instead I got this weird goalpost-moving dodge-the-blame game. I don't usually have the patience for unreasonable people who can't admit when they're wrong, but this was probably the weirdest interaction I ever had on these forums, so I felt that I had to see it through to the end!

[-CdG-Zilchy]

1 minute ago, Sevek7 said:

Okay, but I wrote:

(which says nothing about "Viral being used cos of grineer and corrupted heavies. And toxin being better vs corpus etc.") You even quoted this exact statement from me! Literally that exact same quote. You wrote:

So you can understand why I'm confused... 

I can understand it but I didn't mention the armour types cos OP seemed knowledgeable enough to know them already.

[Sevek7]

12 minutes ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

I meant with the referral to Viral being used cos of grineer and corrupted heavies. And toxin being better vs corpus etc.

Okay, but I wrote:

1 hour ago, Sevek7 said:

I noticed something that the others forgot to mention: It also depends on the armor type of the enemy!

(which says nothing about "Viral being used cos of grineer and corrupted heavies. And toxin being better vs corpus etc.") You even quoted this exact statement from me! Literally that exact same quote. You wrote:

1 hour ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

I mentioned that in my original comment but not as in depth as you did.

So you can understand why I'm confused... 

[-CdG-Zilchy]

Just now, Sevek7 said:

? I just re-read your first comment. Yes you mentioned armor, but you did not mention armor type. 

I did read all of the previous comments in detail before posting my own addition. There is no mention of different armor types here. Perhaps you edited it and removed statements about armor type, and that's why I couldn't find it?

I meant with the referral to Viral being used cos of grineer and corrupted heavies. And toxin being better vs corpus etc.

[Sevek7]

1 hour ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

I mentioned that in my original comment but not as in depth as you did.

? I just re-read your first comment. Yes you mentioned armor, but you did not mention armor type. 

3 hours ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

The simplest answer is what level enemies are you facing? Any elemental is fine vs low levels of say 200 - 300 or so. But when enemies start to have too much armour for Corrosive to do anything, Viral takes over. It is mainly useful vs Grineer and Corrupted armoured units. Vs corpus toxin is actually better as it bypasses shields and infested don't have armour so anything works vs them, particularly heat and slash.

I did read all of the previous comments in detail before posting my own addition. There is no mention of different armor types here. Perhaps you edited it and removed statements about armor type, and that's why I couldn't find it?

[-CdG-Zilchy]

5 minutes ago, Berzerkules said:

I just like seeing how many status types I can get on something. Kuva Ogris is fun with a mag/viral/rad/blast/heat/impact/puncture/slash build. 

Aye now that is fun I agree, meme builds are the best reason to play this game.

[Berzerkules]

Just now, -CdG-Zilchy said:

Mainly cos my melee is bound to my mousewheel and they die anyway so I can't be arsed :D

I just like seeing how many status types I can get on something. Kuva Ogris is fun with a mag/viral/rad/blast/heat/impact/puncture/slash build. 

[-CdG-Zilchy]

Just now, taiiat said:

i
just shoot them in the face with rainbow Damage.

lazy you say? hold my beer

Laziest way is Ash FT with a heavy melee but priming plus Stropha to the face works nicely as well.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

1 minute ago, Berzerkules said:

You monster!! How do you not prime? It takes like a split second. 

Mainly cos my melee is bound to my mousewheel and they die anyway so I can't be arsed :D

[taiiat]

10 minutes ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

with the exception being those damn demolysts cos they are just chunky.

i
just shoot them in the face with rainbow Damage.

lazy you say? hold my beer

[Berzerkules]

1 minute ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

I'm too lazy to prime them :D with the exception being those damn demolysts cos they are just chunky.

You monster!! How do you not prime? It takes like a split second. 

[Berzerkules]

Since we have kuva nukor as a primer now, I've pretty much just stopped modding for elemental damage on slash melee. You have more room for a smite and crit dmg mod. 

About the only time I'll mod for elemental damage is if the weapon has a base element I can work with or if the weapon is not weighted for slash. 

 

[-CdG-Zilchy]

12 minutes ago, Sevek7 said:

I noticed something that the others forgot to mention: It also depends on the armor type of the enemy!

I mentioned that in my original comment but not as in depth as you did.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

20 minutes ago, taiiat said:

your results make sense - versus lower Level Enemies, the higher initial hit Damage of having more Elemental Mods, will Kill things faster.
however, once Enemies have 10, 20, 30x that EHP, you're not Killing them in just one or two hits anymore, and that's where the difference is more apparent.
cheers.

(ahem, Fire is 50% vs Corrosive 80% - not higher, just good enough)

Dammit, fine you win this round Taiiat

*shakes fist*

[Sevek7]

1 hour ago, G1g4byt3 said:

Hi All!

I have been playing this game for couple years now - before cetus and all these things - I have a lot hours in the game and so far I can not understand just 1 thing so I figured it's better to ask a great community. 

On a lot of builds people are using slash + viral builds one melee and I have tried that a lot of times in so many ways and even when slash is greater than viral it's nothing special in my opinion. I prefer to go with slash + corrosive and enemies are dying a lot faster when either is greater then other (also I can use corrosive against all enemies). So when I want elemental I just go for a lot of corrosive and if I want to go for slash I put weeping wounds, crit and damage (without elemental) because enemies are dying just as fast as if I used viral with slash (additional speed or range or crit damage helps me better than a little of viral). I know that "corrosive is better for armor and viral for health" but corrosive is destroying health fast enough and you got + armor damage.

That is only my opinion I am not stating anything.

Can someone who knows better about this explain me what is happening and how it works if I'm wrong?

Thanks.
 

I noticed something that the others forgot to mention: It also depends on the armor type of the enemy!

Ferrite armor (like on heavy gunners) is super weak to corrosive, so you will melt them with corrosive damage. 

Alloy armor (like on bombards) does not have a corrosive weakness. So you will kill these enemies slower when using corrosive.

People like viral & slash because it skips the armor in the calculation. In the end, against ferrite armor viral & slash will perform about the same as corrosive (maybe a little bit worse). But against alloy armor, viral & slash will do much better than corrosive. 

So, if you were testing on heavy gunners, then you probably found the two modding choices performed about the same. But if you switch up the armor types, you'll find that viral & slash works better. In the end, if you assume an even mix of alloy & ferrite armored enemies, viral & slash will be generally the most effective.

Side note: There are other enemy types like infested ancients who have no armor but still are very weak to corrosive. In this situation, corrosive will also be better than viral & slash. But typically these enemies die super fast to anything, so people tend not to worry about it so much. But this is not true on Deimos, where a lot of the infested are immune to viral, so definitely consider using corrosive there!

[taiiat]

your results make sense - versus lower Level Enemies, the higher initial hit Damage of having more Elemental Mods, will Kill things faster.
however, once Enemies have 10, 20, 30x that EHP, you're not Killing them in just one or two hits anymore, and that's where the difference is more apparent.
cheers.

26 minutes ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

Heat was given a higher armour strip bonus than Corrosive

(ahem, Fire is 50% vs Corrosive 80% - not higher, just good enough)

[Tiltskillet]

53 minutes ago, McCIoud said:

Yea but if that's the case with higher levels I can use this other build with a lot of slash/status/damage/crit? When we have viral on other weapons (kuva nukor or something like that) why would we need viral on melee?

You don't.

When I'm priming with a ranged weapon in Steel Path, I use Corrosive on my melee versus Grineer, Corrupted, and usually Infested.  Sometimes Corpus too if I just don't feel like changing, but that's usually Toxin.    Corrosive is just a nice versatile damage type.

If I don't feel like priming, than Viral works better against Grineer and Corrupted.  (Not sure about Infested.)  But if I forget and use Corrosive melee, it's not like that's it, the party's over.  Melee is pretty darn strong when its halfway optimized.

[Red-.-]

Thanks for the explanation, I always used corrosive and it was the best element for all weapons and all enemies and never liked viral before because it was bad, always played corrosive in higher levels and it was really good all the time and when they reworked status I probably just didn't want to accept it somehow. Just tested viral on level up to 200-300  or so and seemed that corrosive is still better even after the update so I just continued to use it for levels higher than 200-300. Didn't want to bother with viral at all (just for procs from primary/2ndary), but i'll need to start using it from now on.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

5 minutes ago, Uhkretor said:

... I would try to explain it to you... but I'm a blasphemer so I'm technically not allowed to explain anything without having zealots trying to prove me wrong...

But I can tell you that you're onto something there so~ keep at it.

I use rank zero elemental mods on my Kronen because the slash bleed is enough and I'd rather proc that more often. It's more just a case of a bit of extra damage never hurt to speed up the DoTs. Corrosive used to be king we all know that, viral just offers the best extra damage right now. End of the day, slash will kill them regardless but speaking from a meta PoV which I don't subscribe to, people just don't like to wait. Just look at the thread the other day where I was posting videos of killing in Steel Path guns and people said it was slower.

[Uhkretor]

47 minutes ago, G1g4byt3 said:

Can someone who knows better about this explain me what is happening and how it works if I'm wrong?

... I would try to explain it to you... but I'm a blasphemer so I'm technically not allowed to explain anything without having zealots trying to prove me wrong...

But I can tell you that you're onto something there so~ keep at it.