An open discussion about endgame in Warframe

[Megalomaniakaal]

14 hours ago, killerJoke66 said:

enemies not spawning or stuck in a door

Enemies not spawning could easily be a anti-camp or afk measure. And bad path-finding, while a badly implemented feature isn't necessarily a bug.

 

But nah the point of my previous post was that I had misunderstood/been confused by what you meant by 'weird internal coding issues' earlier. If it's bugs - it's bugs. No point calling them 'weird internal coding issues' instead. A bug is less ambiguous.

[Zimzala]

8 hours ago, _R_o_g_u_e_ said:

It would be difficult for DE to justify spending months making content for less than 5% of the playerbase, when their wash out rate is still towering above “the vast majority.”

I don’t think there is a right answer here, I mean players seem perfectly content spending thousands of hours in this game, do they really need to be catered for?

Not to mention those tend to be the self same players that refuse to spend money on the game and judge people who do. An extremely toxic element working against DE’s business model.

It’s in DE’s best interest to court new players. Because not only do new players outnumber vets a thousand to one, they are also willing to spend their money.

But that 5% think they own WF and that all content added is for them...

How people can play a (free) game for thousands of hours of Entertainment and then decide it's "all wrong" is, TBH, one of the most fascinating things about this game and it's obsessed population.

This group of vocal gamers determined to make DE/WF look like a 'bad lover' to other gamers after they got all of their fun out of it is sad and hilarious to me.

As with any GaaS game, after you have beaten the game, you have to make your own fun and that, it seems, to some gamers, is a crime against humanity, when it's just how these things work.

Most days, TBH, to me, it's like watching children that have tried all the flavors of Ice Cream at a shop get mad because there are not more flavors to try and the day after someone finds and tries a new one, they are back to the same complaints.

Now I want some ice cream.

[PublikDomain]

12 hours ago, _R_o_g_u_e_ said:

It’s in DE’s best interest to court new players. Because not only do new players outnumber vets a thousand to one, they are also willing to spend their money.

And having a rich and healthy playerbase is necessary to bring in new blood and have them stay. It's in DE's best interest to give existing players long-term content (endgame) not only to keep them around spending money and filling* space to make the game look alive for the newbies, but also to provide a goal for new players to work towards. It's not uncommon to see new player feedback that goes along the lines of "the game's cool but what's waiting for me at the end and why should I bother?"

4 hours ago, Zimzala said:

Most days, TBH, to me, it's like watching children that have tried all the flavors of Ice Cream at a shop get mad because there are not more flavors to try and the day after someone finds and tries a new one, they are back to the same complaints.

[_R_o_g_u_e_]

17 hours ago, PublikDomain said:

And having a rich and healthy playerbase is necessary to bring in new blood and have them stay. It's in DE's best interest to give existing players long-term content (endgame) not only to keep them around spending money and filling* space to make the game look alive for the newbies, but also to provide a goal for new players to work towards. It's not uncommon to see new player feedback that goes along the lines of "the game's cool but what's waiting for me at the end and why should I bother?"

Warframes had a rich and healthy playerbase for most of its life, that’s done nothing to decrease the wash out rate.

Like I already said, there’s all this hyperbole about the game having no end game content, yet people seem perfectly willing to play this game for thousands of hours.

Try to play Destiny for that long, and you’ll be replaying the same handful of strikes over and over again, or the raids, which really aren’t a huge step up from strikes.

This game gives significantly more than any other game on the market, including full price AAA games, snd yet it’s free.

I promise you, how large the playerbase is is barely a factor for if someone will try to play a game or not. For someone fresh into warframe, it’s going to take them months to work towards arbitrations, steel path, Eidolon hunting. A lot of people have said that doesn’t count as end game, but considering that it’s essentially content made for optimised builds and is available ONCE YOU HAVE FINISHED THE CORE GAME, I’d argue by definition it absolutely is.

To reiterate a previous point, it also tends to be these “elite veteran” players who have a real attitude about spending any money on the game. Even belittling people who do.

DE have spent nearly a decade creating content that occurs after the end of the game, just t be told they haven’t by people that don’t even support them.

All the while that focus has done nothing to decrease their wash out rate.

Established players don’t need to be catered for, they are. I’ll repeat again, they are perfectly happy spending thousands of hours in this game.

Find another game that comes close to offering that amount of playtime for FREE.

[(XBOX)Cram Duahcim]

The thing is Warframe is constantly growing but I think that on regards to endgame DE was onto something with The Steel Path in this regard but the problem:

Not everyone wants to play it (I can never find players outside of the Incursions and even then I'm not finding many in them). I do run most solo but splitting your player base generally dosent go well.

I think they need to bring back Raids. That's probably where Endgame can see more success vs a higher difficulty mode. Now SP does have its advantages but again your splitting the player base.

 

 

[Zimzala]

30 minutes ago, (XBOX)Cram Duahcim said:

The thing is Warframe is constantly growing but I think that on regards to endgame DE was onto something with The Steel Path in this regard but the problem:

Not everyone wants to play it (I can never find players outside of the Incursions and even then I'm not finding many in them). I do run most solo but splitting your player base generally dosent go well.

I think they need to bring back Raids. That's probably where Endgame can see more success vs a higher difficulty mode. Now SP does have its advantages but again your splitting the player base.

Splitting the playerbase?

It's not an MMO.

Grouping is NOT mandatory or required.

Some players will play Solo, some will Group.

Allowing for both Solo and Group play is NOT slitting the player base, it's attracting more players.

More Group Members does automatically NOT equate to More Fun, IME, unless you are simply overburdened with the Extrovert personality.

[PublikDomain]

6 hours ago, _R_o_g_u_e_ said:

Warframes had a rich and healthy playerbase for most of its life, that’s done nothing to decrease the wash out rate.

Yes, for most of its life Warframe has had a healthy playerbase, and that health started to flag around 2018. Since then Warframe has seen a general decline in the size of the playerbase and financial reports from Leyou showed that revenue has been declining year after year. 4 of the last 6 months have seen an average CCU on Steam lower than 40k - we haven't seen that since 2017! That's not to doom and gloom and say that the game's dying or whatever, but it's obvious that things haven't been heading in a positive direction lately.

DE has tried to address these issues, but they keep making the same mistakes: things like Arbitrations and Steel Path haven't provided a compelling endgame or reason to stick around because of things like the focus on one-off extrinsic rewards and the lack of general game balance. They continue to create short-term content that can be quickly consumed and discarded instead of building long-term content that's built to last.

And this negatively affects newer players too. For example, a buddy recently returned to the game (after burning out, go figure) and wanted to play some Deimos content (which was what burned him out). But since Deimos is another rewards-focused area of the game without a compelling reason to stick around, even playing in public for an hour we had zero other people join us. If we didn't know better we'd think the game was dead and no one played it.

6 hours ago, _R_o_g_u_e_ said:

This game gives significantly more than any other game on the market, including full price AAA games, snd yet it’s free.

... it also tends to be these “elite veteran” players who have a real attitude about spending any money on the game.

The game being free doesn't shield it from these criticisms. Making sweeping generalizations about veterans being stingy doesn't discredit these criticisms, either.

6 hours ago, _R_o_g_u_e_ said:

I’ll repeat again, they are perfectly happy spending thousands of hours in this game.

Yes, they were perfectly happy spending thousands of hours in the game - when they still had stuff to do. Once you run out of stuff to do there's nowhere left for you to spend another thousand hours. Or even a hundred! Having a big arsenal of stuff but nowhere to use it is a very common piece of feedback. And every day more and more of the active, paying players hit this wall or burn out.

With a good endgame that's actually designed to last both new and old players could have something to look forward to.

[_R_o_g_u_e_]

1 hour ago, PublikDomain said:

Yes, for most of its life Warframe has had a healthy playerbase, and that health started to flag around 2018. Since then Warframe has seen a general decline in the size of the playerbase and financial reports from Leyou showed that revenue has been declining year after year. 4 of the last 6 months have seen an average CCU on Steam lower than 40k - we haven't seen that since 2017! That's not to doom and gloom and say that the game's dying or whatever, but it's obvious that things haven't been heading in a positive direction lately.

DE has tried to address these issues, but they keep making the same mistakes: things like Arbitrations and Steel Path haven't provided a compelling endgame or reason to stick around because of things like the focus on one-off extrinsic rewards and the lack of general game balance. They continue to create short-term content that can be quickly consumed and discarded instead of building long-term content that's built to last.

And this negatively affects newer players too. For example, a buddy recently returned to the game (after burning out, go figure) and wanted to play some Deimos content (which was what burned him out). But since Deimos is another rewards-focused area of the game without a compelling reason to stick around, even playing in public for an hour we had zero other people join us. If we didn't know better we'd think the game was dead and no one played it.

The game being free doesn't shield it from these criticisms. Making sweeping generalizations about veterans being stingy doesn't discredit these criticisms, either.

Yes, they were perfectly happy spending thousands of hours in the game - when they still had stuff to do. Once you run out of stuff to do there's nowhere left for you to spend another thousand hours. Or even a hundred! Having a big arsenal of stuff but nowhere to use it is a very common piece of feedback. And every day more and more of the active, paying players hit this wall or burn out.

With a good endgame that's actually designed to last both new and old players could have something to look forward to.

Can you give an example of another game that has endgame you can play for thousands of hours and still have things to look forward to?

 

—For free, mind you. 

[(XBOX)Cram Duahcim]

2 hours ago, PublikDomain said:

 

Yes, they were perfectly happy spending thousands of hours in the game - when they still had stuff to do. Once you run out of stuff to do there's nowhere left for you to spend another thousand hours. Or even a hundred! Having a big arsenal of stuff but nowhere to use it is a very common piece of feedback. And every day more and more of the active, paying players hit this wall or burn out.

So is that DEs fault you played EVERYTHING? That's not DEs problem.

Your still put in that game time. You stayed for those thousands of hours, it's not up to DE to control how much time you've spent in the game and ration content for you. 

And from what it appears DE is trying to hire more people and become larger studio, being right in the middle of Covid and having to contend with the restrictions it brings, that's a good sign (I live in Canada so I get the restrictions)

Leyou as a whole was losing money, I mean it's why it's now owned by Tencent. Warframe was still among it's top earing products and was the primary resource being acquired, and the reason why all the companies interested in buying Leyou in the first place. I'd say that's a good thing right?

In regard to veterans, they haven't been exactly the best source for constructive criticism. As soon as something gets changed or even brought up in passing on stream that's the voices you hear and are the first  that go gets there torches and pitchforks first. 

Your friend returning to the game should not be a reference for issues with new players. Your friend is a returning player. He/she had a full grasp of the game mechanics before newer updates so how is your friends experience in any way a metric for issues for players first launching the game?

It's still not DEs problem you burned out on the game. That falls directly on individual responsibility and time management on your part. So if your burned out: do something else with your time

[-BG-StormFighter117]

I would love to have Endgame in Warframe. Sadly this will likely never happen. You make several great points but what you listed as Endgame is not really Endgame. The only thing close to Endgame you mentioned is speed running.

Warframe has no Endgame.

[Limborghini]

DE does not care.

They release passion projects and lowest-common denominator content.

Endgame is none of those.

[PublikDomain]

2 hours ago, (XBOX)Cram Duahcim said:

So is that DEs fault you played EVERYTHING? That's not DEs problem.

No, it's DE's fault that they keep creating short-term content instead of long-term content. Of course there are people who have played everything in an 8-year-old game that's dominated by one-off content. As a very recent example, Call of the Tempestarii - no matter how slow or bad of a player you are - is like a 30 minute experience. And then you're done. All of the work and effort DE put into creating that, for 30 minutes. Think of all of the work DE put into Deimos, and the place is already a ghost town.

I already outlined on page 1 some examples of long-term content, most of which has already existed in the game but was either given zero attention or scrapped entirely.

On 2021-04-10 at 2:13 PM, PublikDomain said:

For me "endgame" is a little more loosely defined: endgame is just the stuff a player does at the end of the game. Simple, right? Any sort of recurring, long-term activities meant for players who have completed all of the one-off content like the main quest or collecting items. Endgame activities can focus on strategy, difficulty, skill, etc., but not all of them need to.

Endgame isn't some permanent thing, either: content can slide off and stop being a part of the endgame after it becomes a normal part of the game. For example, Eidolons were endgame at one point in time but I wouldn't really call them that anymore, since endgame players have long squeezed the last remaining drops of content out of them. Content that relies on an extrinsic reward structure will always dry up like this, so while it can be an endgame focus it needs constant refreshing or recycling to newer content.

Endgame activities can focus on rewards, they'll last longer if they don't.  What's really important for older players is just having something - anything - to keep doing in the game. A few ideas:

• An adopt-a-settlement program, where players/clans/alliances can adopt settlements of various sizes, like Inaros in Sands of Inaros and other Warframes in the lore. Players can build buildings, train, customize, and hire their own NPCs, research some new items like clan-tech, and build a Settlement Foundry. Settlement Foundries provide a second crafting queue so you can craft two of the same item at once: one on your ship and one at your settlement. Settlements can spawn alerts/quests and be attacked by enemy factions and provide something for you to spend time and resources on upkeep.
• Update the PvP: decrease the TTK and speed up spawn times to make it faster and make it easier for new players to get kills, and add basic features like bots and the ability to modify loadouts between games. Add new gametypes and skins, make more PvP mods usable in PvE, and offer more weapons/frames that can be obtained through PvP. This makes Conclave playable and provides an endless source of challenge for players looking to test themselves: other players.
• Lift the Armistice and bring back an updated Solar Rail Conflict system. Most nodes on the starchart can be contested and combat uses Conclave loadouts. The tax system is updated so it "taxes" NPCs instead of players. Additional rules are added where necessary. This would provide clans and alliances something to compete over, and could tie in with clan/alliance settlements.
• Merge mission modifiers like Fissures, Invasions, Kuva, etc. You could potentially do a Kuva Fissure Invasion and have a Lich show up. This makes the starchart less fragmented and makes it feel more alive/dynamic.
• Update the Invasion system so it's more dynamic/active. Factions invading territory can have goals for the community to prevent. If the faction succeeds it can cause things like Fomorians and Razorbacks. Add Sentients to the Invasion pool so they can start invading nodes in the Outer Terminus. This also makes the starchart feel more alive/dynamic and provides community goals to work towards.
• Make Fomorians/Razorbacks/etc. not on rails anymore so the community can be defeated, and allow the community to rebuild the Relays. This gives the community more agency over the ingame world, provides community goals, and makes it feel more alive.
• Bring back LoR/JV and add more raids, like for the 3rd Orb. This provides endgame mission types that require more cooperation than normal missions do now.

Building a rich endgame isn't hard; most of this content already exists in some form or another ingame, but DE doesn't use it to its full potential and would rather continue to throw new darts at the board.

Not building long-term content to keep players engaged past the collect-a-thon part of the game is 100% DE's problem.

3 hours ago, _R_o_g_u_e_ said:

Can you give an example of another game that has endgame you can play for thousands of hours and still have things to look forward to?

Any competitive game.

Any world-building or constructive game.

Any good social game.

And I gave plenty of examples on page 1 of this sort of content DE could resurrect for Warframe.

3 hours ago, _R_o_g_u_e_ said:

—For free, mind you. 

I've spent more money on Warframe than I have on games like CS:GO or Minecraft, both of which offer potentially infinite play-time by focusing on competitive or constructive content.

I've put 2,784 hours into War Thunder, a F2P competitive vehicular combat game, and I'm not even half-way through unlocking all of the available vehicles. And despite hating its scumbag developers and abhorrent monetization, I still play that S#&$ from time to time because it's fun and fighting other players never gets old.

[DrivaMain]

16 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

Any competitive game.

Any world-building or constructive game.

Any good social game.

 

• Competitives are PvP games. Comparing it to Warframe is not a good example plus the player base HATES competitive content.
• You are trying to say minecraft right? Again, not great to compare Warframe. Minecraft is too different.

I think comparing PvP to a PvE game is not a great comparison. You may find these games to be fun, but I don’t find dealing with screaming manchilds in voice chat 24/7 in these games to be fun.

Unlike PvP, PvE games relies on new content to keep players satisfied. Once players has grabbed all the new shinies they’ll stop playing instantly and wait until the next content to arrive. 

[(XBOX)Cram Duahcim]

44 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

I've put 2,784 hours into War Thunder, a F2P competitive vehicular combat game, and I'm not even half-way through unlocking all of the available vehicles. And despite hating its scumbag developers and abhorrent monetization, I still play that S#&$ from time to time because it's fun and fighting other players never gets old.

So what? Are you advocating for Warframe to go deep into conclave or build more on PvP? (Because if you are that's a TERRIBLE IDEA)

They came out and said before release that it was not going to be a big quest so those bases were covered before launch (there's warframes that didn't get any) plus originally this was suppose to come with Corpus Railjack, they could have pushed everything back, have it all at once and we'd still have this conversation. I'm happy with the update overall.

Personally I've been playing since launch on Xbox, and since then I've been pretty consistent with my play time. HoD is NOT a ghost town, I can find games on the regular with no problems what so ever and I'm still finding things that I'd like to do in the game.

Am I happy with every decision they have made? Absolutely not and that's an impossible task.

24 minutes ago, DrivaMain said:

• I think comparing PvP to a PvE game is not a great comparison. You may find these games to be fun, but I don’t find dealing with screaming manchilds in voice chat 24/7 in these games to be fun.

Unlike PvP, PvE games relies on new content to keep players satisfied. Once players has grabbed all the new shinies they’ll stop playing instantly and wait until the next content to arrive. 

Warframe isn't any of this, which is why I play it, if I wanted that I already have Call of Duty (and even then the mics are muted) 

And the statements above is warframe at its heart in relation to PvE. Get shiny thing, move on to next shinny thing rinse and repeat. It's been 8 years of that 🤷‍♂️ 

Now are there downsides to that? Absolutely, but honestly No amount of Endgame content is going to make everyone happy because there still going to be either A) That's it? I want more Or B) Not good enough, you should do this and I want more! 

 

[PublikDomain]

7 minutes ago, DrivaMain said:

• Competitives are PvP games. Comparing it to Warframe is not a good example plus the player base HATES competitive content.
• You are trying to say minecraft right? Again, not great to compare Warframe. Minecraft is too different.

I think comparing PvP to a PvE game is not a great comparison. You may find these games to be fun, but I don’t find dealing with screaming manchilds in voice chat 24/7 in these games to be fun.

Unlike PvP, PvE games relies on new content to keep players satisfied. Once players has grabbed all the new shinies they’ll stop playing instantly and wait until the next content to arrive. 

Building a good endgame is about layering many different types of long-term activities. Saying "no" to something because you don't like it personally is short-sighted. If the game had a healthy endgame you could skip one or two activities and still have three or four to keep you busy.

Warframe has had PvP and competitive content for years. We even had CvC and PvEvP. The players that don't like PvP don't need to play it, but it's a very strong direction to go for endgame content and if it got the bare minimum of attention it needed to be good it could provide additional ways to keep players engaged long-term. Other things like running competitive events with leaderboards more often could also provide a competitive outlet. OP likes speedrunning, so why not speedrunning leaderboards? Players interested in competing over that kind of content could do so.

It'd also be good for Warframe to have more constructive content. Yes, Minecraft was the main example, but Warframe doesn't need a block building system to have some constructive content. Rebuilding and defending Relays, controlling territory through Solar Rail Conflicts, an adopt-a-settlement mechanic, a revamped Invasion system, etc. Content that gives players and the community some sort of ownership or agency over the game world.

Social mechanics closely tie in to the above. Competition between clans for ownership over territory, community involvement with global activities like Invasions or Relays, etc. can all make a player feel like part of a living community. I've got a concept floating around somewhere for Tau Campaigns, where the community can construct a shared Intersolar Rail to invade Tau and fight to take control of nodes from the Sentients. There could be content like Relay statue dedications for the first Tenno to reach some boss during the current campaign.

If the game had better balance then challenging content could exist too. We could have difficult raids or challenge missions that require more than the bare minimum of attention, and require things like building a balanced squad like in the old Void Key days. Content you can actually fail and where success depends on your skill and not your gear. Challenging yourself to overcome this kind of content could provide a nice mountain to climb, and in the meantime DE could work on adding the next peak.

It's incredibly easy to come up with long-term content that could work for Warframe, and most of what I'm talking about is reworks to existing systems or content we already had!

3 minutes ago, (XBOX)Cram Duahcim said:

Are you advocating for Warframe to go deep into conclave or build more on PvP?

Yes. Part of Warframe's endgame could be competitive content like PvP, CvC, or PvEvP. All of which we already have or have already had in the past. It's true that this content isn't very good right now, but that's because of DE not giving it any attention. If they gave it some attention it could be good, and then people could play it again. They don't even need to do much to it, either.

[(PSN)AdiosGamer]

Why having an endgame if you can have a never ending story?

or more to do?

Like I want a bigger story and more levels then 30 I dont know why but everything is max level 30

[DrivaMain]

6 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

Warframe has had PvP and competitive content for years. We even had CvC and PvEvP. The players that don't like PvP don't need to play it, but it's a very strong direction to go for endgame content and if it got the bare minimum of attention it needed to be good it could provide additional ways to keep players engaged long-term. Other things like running competitive events with leaderboards more often could also provide a competitive outlet. OP likes speedrunning, so why not speedrunning leaderboards? Players interested in competing over that kind of content could do so.

It'd also be good for Warframe to have more constructive content. Yes, Minecraft was the main example, but Warframe doesn't need a block building system to have some constructive content. Rebuilding and defending Relays, controlling territory through Solar Rail Conflicts, an adopt-a-settlement mechanic, a revamped Invasion system, etc. Content that gives players and the community some sort of ownership or agency over the game world.

Social mechanics closely tie in to the above. Competition between clans for ownership over territory, community involvement with global activities like Invasions or Relays, etc. can all make a player feel like part of a living community. I've got a concept floating around somewhere for Tau Campaigns, where the community can construct a shared Intersolar Rail to invade Tau and fight to take control of nodes from the Sentients. There could be content like Relay statue dedications for the first Tenno to reach some boss during the current campaign.

If the game had better balance then challenging content could exist too. We could have difficult raids or challenge missions that require more than the bare minimum of attention, and require things like building a balanced squad like in the old Void Key days. Content you can actually fail and where success depends on your skill and not your gear. Challenging yourself to overcome this kind of content could provide a nice mountain to climb, and in the meantime DE could work on adding the next peak.

I don’t trust DE at handling PvP. DE tried to make a PvP game back in 2016 called amazing eternals, the balance was terrible. DE then lost interest and pulled the plug. I don’t think DE wants to do another PvP game anytime soon.

Then you have another problem trying to add challenging endgame. Resistance from the player base. Challenge phobia casual crowd are big and vocal, they’ll shoot down any attempts to make this game more challenging. Another sad fact is DE always listens to them.

[PublikDomain]

Just now, DrivaMain said:

I don’t trust DE at handling PvP. DE tried to make a PvP game back in 2016 called amazing eternals, the balance was terrible. DE then lost interest and pulled the plug. I don’t think DE wants to do another PvP game anytime soon.

I know, I was in the alpha. DE gave up on Keystone/Amazing Eternals when they didn't see immediate success instead of iterating on the idea. They could have made that game much more interesting if they made some small changes to the deck building and card game part (bigger deck, random card order, meta cards), which could have provided room to flesh out the shooter part (maps, heroes, etc). They can absolutely do PvP if they don't give up and run away at the first sign of trouble.

2 minutes ago, DrivaMain said:

Then you have another problem trying to add challenging endgame. Resistance from the player base. Challenge phobia casual crowd are big and vocal, they’ll shoot down any attempts to make this game more challenging. Another sad fact is DE always listens to them.

I know, a lot of people want to maintain the status quo even if the status quo is boring and burns people out. But there's a lot of positive movement within the balance faction and even visible concerns over balance from DE staff like Rebecca or Scott, so IMO it's just a matter of gaining momentum and convincing the right people within DE that balance is important.

[(XBOX)Cram Duahcim]

Just now, PublikDomain said:

 

Yes. Part of Warframe's endgame could be competitive content like PvP, CvC, or PvEvP. All of which we already have or have already had in the past. It's true that this content isn't very good right now, but that's because of DE not giving it any attention. If they gave it some attention it could be good, and then people could play it again. They don't even need to do much to it, either.

And the thing about It's removal is alot of the toxicity of the community left along with it. And the vast majority of players really don't want to participate in it.

Because that's not what Warframe is about. There's plenty of other PvP games on the market. And if you take a look a games that have PvE experiences along with PvP:

They are ALL toxic communities (Destiny and Division, which is definitely even worse that Destiny) 

But Raids/Trials getting removed was a bad decision that's still haunting DE. It's something that Warframe should have again (and it will as its been brought up in recent devstreams) 

If Warframe received a serious PvP mode I'm willing to bet its not going to be widely supported. 

[PublikDomain]

Just now, (XBOX)Cram Duahcim said:

Because that's not what Warframe is about.

For you, maybe, so don't play it then.

22 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

Building a good endgame is about layering many different types of long-term activities. Saying "no" to something because you don't like it personally is short-sighted. If the game had a healthy endgame you could skip one or two activities and still have three or four to keep you busy.

[_R_o_g_u_e_]

5 hours ago, PublikDomain said:

No, it's DE's fault that they keep creating short-term content instead of long-term content. Of course there are people who have played everything in an 8-year-old game that's dominated by one-off content. As a very recent example, Call of the Tempestarii - no matter how slow or bad of a player you are - is like a 30 minute experience. And then you're done. All of the work and effort DE put into creating that, for 30 minutes. Think of all of the work DE put into Deimos, and the place is already a ghost town.

I already outlined on page 1 some examples of long-term content, most of which has already existed in the game but was either given zero attention or scrapped entirely.

Not building long-term content to keep players engaged past the collect-a-thon part of the game is 100% DE's problem.

Any competitive game.

Any world-building or constructive game.

Any good social game.

And I gave plenty of examples on page 1 of this sort of content DE could resurrect for Warframe.

I've spent more money on Warframe than I have on games like CS:GO or Minecraft, both of which offer potentially infinite play-time by focusing on competitive or constructive content.

I've put 2,784 hours into War Thunder, a F2P competitive vehicular combat game, and I'm not even half-way through unlocking all of the available vehicles. And despite hating its scumbag developers and abhorrent monetization, I still play that S#&$ from time to time because it's fun and fighting other players never gets old.

I asked you to name a game, not to loosely wave your hand at a genre.

You’ve spent money on warframe, cool. But what you didn’t pay for was any of the content, that was free.

PvP is possibly the worst example. I mean, I myself have over 2000 hours in league of legends, and it’s going to take me another 20 years to unlock everything.

But league has like 1 hour of content that you replay over and over and over again.

So give me a PVE game, something in the same sandbox as warframe, that after thousands of hours of play time, still gives you new content to play and to look forward to. Not skins to unlock, not effects actual content.

Side note, I don’t doubt that people have done everything in an 8 year old game. But guess what dude, games take like 1/10000 time to play as they do to make.

This game has the content it has because for 8 years 250+ people have spent half of their lives cranking out updates and content for this game.

There doesn’t exist a situation we’re they possibly could’ve made enough content that you could be kept busy between every content release.

What you and many others are asking for is ridiculous, impossible, childish and extremely entitled.

You’re asking of DE what can’t be and hasn’t been done before.

If you’ve played a game for 1000-3000 hours dude and you’re upset about the “lack of content,” it really isn’t the game that’s the problem.

[PublikDomain]

15 hours ago, _R_o_g_u_e_ said:

I asked you to name a game, not to loosely wave your hand at a genre.

Deal with it.

15 hours ago, _R_o_g_u_e_ said:

But league has like 1 hour of content that you replay over and over and over again.

And you can replay that 1 hour of content for years and years and years, because competitive content never gets old. DOTA 2 has half a million players online right now. CS:GO has almost a million. Competitive content is an excellent, proven way to provide an avenue of long-term content for players.

15 hours ago, _R_o_g_u_e_ said:

You’re asking of DE what can’t be and hasn’t been done before.

They have literally had all of the things I talked about on the first page except one.

• Conclave
• Solar Rail Conflicts
• Invasions
• Relay rebuilding/destruction
• Raids

Can't be done? It's been done! DE just didn't support it.

[_R_o_g_u_e_]

1 hour ago, PublikDomain said:

Deal with it.

And you can replay that 1 hour of content for years and years and years, because competitive content never gets old. DOTA 2 has half a million players online right now. CS:GO has almost a million. Competitive content is an excellent, proven way to provide an avenue of long-term content for players.

They have literally had all of the things I talked about on the first page except one.

• Conclave
• Solar Rail Conflicts
• Invasions
• Relay rebuilding/destruction
• Raids

Can't be done? It's been done! DE just didn't support it.

Where has it been done?

Give me one example of a PVE game that has achieved what you’re demanding.

A bullet point list of random things with no explanation of what you’re actually talking about isn’t in anyway proof.

[PublikDomain]

35 minutes ago, _R_o_g_u_e_ said:

Where has it been done?

1 hour ago, PublikDomain said:

• Conclave
• Solar Rail Conflicts
• Invasions
• Relay rebuilding/destruction
• Raids

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Conclave

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Solar_Rail_Conflict

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Amazing_Eternals

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Invasion

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/The_Pyrus_Project

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Fomorian

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Razorback

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Trial

All of the mechanics I talked about on the first page (competitive content, updating invasions, relay rebuilding/defense, trials) have existed in Warframe for years. You've played this content, right? These systems have the potential to provide a good source of endgame activities if DE resurrects them and makes some tweaks.

[Kontrollo]

1 hour ago, PublikDomain said:

They have literally had all of the things I talked about on the first page except one.

• Conclave
• Solar Rail Conflicts
• Invasions
• Relay rebuilding/destruction
• Raids

24 minutes ago, _R_o_g_u_e_ said:

Where has it been done?

Give me one example of a PVE game that has achieved what you’re demanding.

A bullet point list of random things with no explanation of what you’re actually talking about isn’t in anyway proof.

Guess I'm going to randomly butt in here (going to read the thread later, probably): "But it's a PvE game" is such a cop-out. Warframe had PvP in various forms since 2013, and neither does it have to be either/or nor does it have to be 50/50.

Examples:

• World of Warcraft. I've played it for a long time back in the day, and it had both Raids and PvP. Last I heard it's still going strong to this day.
• Fortnite: I guess the PvP part was just too successful and the PvE part sorta got sidelined for it (that's my general impression, never played it). Unlikely to happen with this game, anyway.
• StarCraft/WarCraft: Both PvE and PvP strategy games. The modding aspect was so successful that there are entire game franchises now revolving around at least one of those modes: the aforementioned DOTA and League of Legends among them.