melee nerfs and guns buff

[rayfalx]

I am not good at English. so I used translator.

I think this gun buff is good, but I don't think a few modes and arcane will improve the guns much.

That is why I think more specific improvements will needed.

And I think the D.E. that made melee 3.0 can do enough.

But I don't think the nerf of the melee is very good.

Glaive Prime's nerf is a given, but I think Blood Rush, Condition Overlord and Berserk's nerf are very bad.

The nerf of Condition Overlord was predictable because the proximity weapon was better than the gun, but it wasn't blood rush.

Once the Blood Rush's nerf has coused most melee to lose their critical chance by more than one level.

Thus, pretty good melee will hane significantly reduced damage,and medium and sub-capabilities that have been moderately available.

And Berserk's nerf is also deadly.

As the condition of the Berserker's activation changed to kill the enemy, it became difficult to see its effect in places such as the steel path.

I remember that the condition of Berserker was that it was easy to invoke when the enemy was attacked with a critical strike.

I agree with that, but if it changes like this, if the level is high and it's hard to kill enemy, it's too hard to invoke Berserker.

I think it would be better to leave the Berserker'scondition and maximum attack speed and change the attack speed to a small percentage once a critical strike is made

 

I don't think this workshop is good.

So I think melee's nerf should be less and the gun's buff a little better.

Sometimes weapon needs nerf, but I think it's too much.

[Duality52]

11 minutes ago, rayfalx said:

Blood Rush, Condition Overlord and Berserk's nerf are very bad.

Rather than "very bad", it's needed.

Blood Rush provides the most out of its effect out of every single mod in the game, in essence an easy 660% Crit Chance mod. It needed to be toned down.

Condition Overload easily triumphed over Primed Pressure Point in just two Status procs. Even with its damage bonus being reduced to 80%, it's still plenty of damage considering how Melee weapons outdamage most ranged weapons in the game.

Berserker favored Crit Melee weapons more over Status Melee weapons. The change gives you a decision between consistent attack speed (Fury) or a ramped up and up-keeping high Attack Speed (Berserking Fury). This is also to remove the reliance on more Crit weapons.

In all, the Melee nerfs isn't that extensive, The overall killing power, which tends to be overkill damage, doesn't shift that much.

[Uhkretor]

... So glad I've never used those 3 mods... Everyone else is going to cry while I laugh, so much fun hahaha

[Doomsknightmare]

50 minutes ago, Uhkretor said:

... So glad I've never used those 3 mods... Everyone else is going to cry while I laugh, so much fun hahaha

LOL A dude who claimed that he NEVER used Blood Rush, Condition Overload or Berserker which are the most crucial mods to melee for decades 😂 Guess you're a new player who only enjoy the heavy attack build for Glaives or Gunblades...

[Doomsknightmare]

7 minutes ago, Doomsknightmare said:

LOL A dude who claimed that he NEVER used Blood Rush, Condition Overload or Berserker which are the most crucial mods to melee for decades 😂 Guess you're a new player who only enjoy the heavy attack build for Glaives or Gunblades...

For those who cheated themselves with illusions, just stop trying so hard pretending you're fine and happy while your most powerful melee mods got nerfed 😅

[Uhkretor]

57 minutes ago, Doomsknightmare said:

LOL A dude who claimed that he NEVER used Blood Rush, Condition Overload or Berserker which are the most crucial mods to melee for decades

If my choices are that much of a problem for you then~ its your problem, not mine.

I'm actually proud of the fact that I've never used once either of those... or two mods from those 3 at the same time... or all 3 of them at the same time.

57 minutes ago, Doomsknightmare said:

Guess you're a new player who only enjoy the heavy attack build for Glaives or Gunblades...

And~ you couldn't be more wrong than that... Too bad, I guess...

 

... Have fun grasping for straws... I'll still be laughing while everyone's crying so~ win-win for me.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

2 hours ago, Duality52 said:

Rather than "very bad", it's needed.

Blood Rush provides the most out of its effect out of every single mod in the game, in essence an easy 660% Crit Chance mod. It needed to be toned down.

Condition Overload easily triumphed over Primed Pressure Point in just two Status procs. Even with its damage bonus being reduced to 80%, it's still plenty of damage considering how Melee weapons outdamage most ranged weapons in the game.

Berserker favored Crit Melee weapons more over Status Melee weapons. The change gives you a decision between consistent attack speed (Fury) or a ramped up and up-keeping high Attack Speed (Berserking Fury). This is also to remove the reliance on more Crit weapons.

In all, the Melee nerfs isn't that extensive, The overall killing power, which tends to be overkill damage, doesn't shift that much.

Why are mods doing their job well such a horrible thing to you people?

like should DE just make every mod just increase their respective stats by 1%?

Because I feel like we’re on the cusp of a downward slope where melees just going to keep getting heavier and heavier nerfs every year because people keep complaining that it’s “too strong”. How is a weapon type that’s capable of getting you through the content of the game “too strong”? Last I checked the proper terminology for something like that is “balanced”.

like before melee could deal tens of millions of damage. Well that was considered too strong. So now they deal millions of damage. But apparently now that’s too strong. So now they’re being reduced to hundreds of thousands of damage. For what? So next year they’ll decide that that to is also too strong and melee will be nerfed even more to only deal hundreds of damage?

[(XBOX)Santonik 15]

3 hours ago, rayfalx said:

I am not good at English. so I used translator.

I think this gun buff is good, but I don't think a few modes and arcane will improve the guns much.

That is why I think more specific improvements will needed.

And I think the D.E. that made melee 3.0 can do enough.

But I don't think the nerf of the melee is very good.

Glaive Prime's nerf is a given, but I think Blood Rush, Condition Overlord and Berserk's nerf are very bad.

The nerf of Condition Overlord was predictable because the proximity weapon was better than the gun, but it wasn't blood rush.

Once the Blood Rush's nerf has coused most melee to lose their critical chance by more than one level.

Thus, pretty good melee will hane significantly reduced damage,and medium and sub-capabilities that have been moderately available.

And Berserk's nerf is also deadly.

As the condition of the Berserker's activation changed to kill the enemy, it became difficult to see its effect in places such as the steel path.

I remember that the condition of Berserker was that it was easy to invoke when the enemy was attacked with a critical strike.

I agree with that, but if it changes like this, if the level is high and it's hard to kill enemy, it's too hard to invoke Berserker.

I think it would be better to leave the Berserker'scondition and maximum attack speed and change the attack speed to a small percentage once a critical strike is made

 

I don't think this workshop is good.

So I think melee's nerf should be less and the gun's buff a little better.

Sometimes weapon needs nerf, but I think it's too much.

I playing not meta melee weapons usually. People need to investested more forma to melee weapons. There is a many suprising good melee weapons what people do not use. i playing sometimes steelpath too. 

[Duality52]

8 minutes ago, (XBOX)Santonik 15 said:

There is a many suprising good melee weapons

Thing is compared to Ranged weapons, Melee weapons are mostly the same with a few outliers. The only things that differ are:

• Stats
• Appearance
• Stance

It's rather monotone, but on the same token, DE prefers to use them as they complement with Warframe's mobility the most while less overall work than making Ranged weapons (reload animations, firing sounds, etc.).

The outliers mentioned above would be:

• Kronen Prime with Sovereign Outcast
• Most Dual Swords with Swirling Tiger
• Glaive Prime

In short, almost all Melee weapons perform identically in terms of visuals and performance. It's what makes them rather monotone compared to Ranged weapons.

[(XBOX)Santonik 15]

22 minutes ago, Duality52 said:

Thing is compared to Ranged weapons, Melee weapons are mostly the same with a few outliers. The only things that differ are:

• Stats
• Appearance
• Stance

It's rather monotone, but on the same token, DE prefers to use them as they complement with Warframe's mobility the most while less overall work than making Ranged weapons (reload animations, firing sounds, etc.).

The outliers mentioned above would be:

• Kronen Prime with Sovereign Outcast
• Most Dual Swords with Swirling Tiger
• Glaive Prime

In short, almost all Melee weapons perform identically in terms of visuals and performance. It's what makes them rather monotone compared to Ranged weapons.

I playing usually melee weapons what is something uniques. Like energy\health gaining or control to enemy behavior.  

Players must to know what element can conrtol enemy behavior too.  Many players usuallu see only high damage and forgot everything else. 

Smart players can adapt.  

[Tordoise]

1小时前 , (XBOX)Santonik 15 说:

Smart players can adapt.  

Warframe is not a game for those smart. It is a game for everybody.

Steelpath is a tough mode. Most of the guns perform not well, while melee weapons do. Buffing the guns is good, but nerfing the melee weapons is not. 

Most of guns perform not well even in normal games. Sometimes even Panzer Vulpaphyla perform better than guns. Shall we nurf Panzer Vulpaphyla?

USing melee weapons is a choice, guns is another. I wanna use melee weapons to deal with the Steelpath someday so i will use, but i wont make others do. I wanna use guns to deal with the Steelpath someday so i will use, but i wont make others do. Somebody choose guns and smonebody shall not make others do either. That is what smart people do.

Melee nurfs looks like, 'hey we are buffing the guns, no more melee playing.'

If DE really want to lower the frequency of using the melee weapons, why not make Necramech able to be used in Steelpath? Arquebex can do better than the guns, and even the melee.

If DE just want to make the guns perform better, then just buff the guns. Melee nurfs is not needed.

Do not make my choice for me. If not, i can choose what game to play.

[(NSW)SevenCN]

4小时前 , (XBOX)Santonik 15 说:

I playing usually melee weapons what is something uniques. Like energy\health gaining or control to enemy behavior.  

Players must to know what element can conrtol enemy behavior too.  Many players usuallu see only high damage and forgot everything else. 

Smart players can adapt.  

In my opinion, melee nerfs and guns buff is not a better choice.

 

I can understand developers want us to use more weapons. It's so upset to them if we only use few of those weapons. However, it's a game which means that each weapon can be calculated the upper limit(Damage, Crit, Status ...). As a result, the best choice is only few of them. 

 

In the Warframe, we improve our weapons by setting formas to equip more MODs. Melee weapons have Stance MODs which means we can use few forma to have enough capacity and deal more damage. However, primary & pistol guns don't have this advantages.

 

In steel path, they may found that damage dealt by their warframes' ability/weapons is not enough. And our aim is to kill more enemies in a short time. As a result, the most easy way is to pull & control these enemies and use melee weapons to deal a kind of area of effect. However, most of guns can only shot them one by one. Kuva Nukor with a higher status chance & doesn't cause explosion repel Warframe will also be the best choice.

 

In some situations, we need to kill one Boss -- Eidolons-- Rubico, Vectis, Redeemer which have enough damage and best crit is  better choices.

 

In conclusion, Game --> upper limit --> few weapons. New Players --> Stance MODs --> Melee weapons. Game Modes --> 1 Boss/ Enemies --> Rubico, Vectis, Redeemer/ Melee, Kuva Nukor. ===> Most of players use melee weapons, but use different pistol guns/ ability as aid. 

 

So why not developed some new MODs as Stance MODs  (for example multi-shot can auto trade to different enemies but not only one direction) and improve capacity?

[ReddyDisco]

10 hours ago, Duality52 said:

Condition Overload easily triumphed over Primed Pressure Point in just two Status procs. Even with its damage bonus being reduced to 80%, it's still plenty of damage considering how Melee weapons outdamage most ranged weapons in the game.

see just reduction to 80% is fine but the 3 status cap is something of concern

[rayfalx]

10 hours ago, Duality52 said:

Rather than "very bad", it's needed.

Blood Rush provides the most out of its effect out of every single mod in the game, in essence an easy 660% Crit Chance mod. It needed to be toned down.

Condition Overload easily triumphed over Primed Pressure Point in just two Status procs. Even with its damage bonus being reduced to 80%, it's still plenty of damage considering how Melee weapons outdamage most ranged weapons in the game.

Berserker favored Crit Melee weapons more over Status Melee weapons. The change gives you a decision between consistent attack speed (Fury) or a ramped up and up-keeping high Attack Speed (Berserking Fury). This is also to remove the reliance on more Crit weapons.

In all, the Melee nerfs isn't that extensive, The overall killing power, which tends to be overkill damage, doesn't shift that much.

I also know that Melee is stronger than a gun.

But that's not why Melee's nerf is needed.

To put it another way, Melee isn't stronger than the gun, but the gun is much weaker than Melee

There are exceptionally powerful weapons such as Glaive Prime and Kronen Prime, but they are indeed exceptions.

More than half of the Melee have previously been able to put in a decent amount of damage, but will not be able to after this time.

This is not a pvp game.

We need to think about why so many players don't use guns and use strong Melee like Glaive prime.

I think that's becausethe damage to the gun is down compared to Melee.

In most normal nodes, Melee is very strong, but in places like steel reads, Melee is not as strong as needed and the gun is very weak.

Then what D.E, should do is not Melee's nerf, but the gun's buff.

[rayfalx]

Also D.E. said ti would do minimal melee nurf and a lot of gun buffs.

But now the workshop is a lot of melee nurf and a very small gun buff

[(NSW)SevenCN]

1分钟前 , rayfalx 说:

I also know that Melee is stronger than a gun.

But that's not why Melee's nerf is needed.

To put it another way, Melee isn't stronger than the gun, but the gun is much weaker than Melee

There are exceptionally powerful weapons such as Glaive Prime and Kronen Prime, but they are indeed exceptions.

More than half of the Melee have previously been able to put in a decent amount of damage, but will not be able to after this time.

This is not a pvp game.

We need to think about why so many players don't use guns and use strong Melee like Glaive prime.

I think that's becausethe damage to the gun is down compared to Melee.

In most normal nodes, Melee is very strong, but in places like steel reads, Melee is not as strong as needed and the gun is very weak.

Then what D.E, should do is not Melee's nerf, but the gun's buff.

 

51分钟前 , ReddyDisco 说:

see just reduction to 80% is fine but the 3 status cap is something of concern

I don't agree D.E.'s nerf as well.

Absolutely, melee is overpowered, but they only try to balance damage. I think it's almost doesn't matter in most missions. We are playing games. And in Warframe, most mission we played is killing enemies. AOE damage/faster attack speed can make players more comfortable & excited. Let recollect our memory, popular guns -- Bramma, Ogris, Nukor, Acceltra. However, D.E. seems doesn't realize the reason why they are popular.

[(NSW)SevenCN]

Exterminate piece by piece is better than one by one. Unfortunately most guns doesn't have any way to do this.

[(PSN)FromOtherSpace]

Il y a 10 heures, Doomsknightmare a dit :

For those who cheated themselves with illusions, just stop trying so hard pretending you're fine and happy while your most powerful melee mods got nerfed 😅

Why those who only play meta-style always say that everyone do as them?

[(NSW)SevenCN]

12分钟前 , rayfalx 说:

Also D.E. said ti would do minimal melee nurf and a lot of gun buffs.

But now the workshop is a lot of melee nurf and a very small gun buff

Yep, and it's almost some new mods. Unfortunately, I must kill someone to get these buff, but I must get the buff to kill them ......

[DenLINER-EX]

 

DE Are you thinking seriously? What is the logic of weakening the melee combat and making the main weapon stronger? How can't you unilaterally buff the main weapon. Which weapon do you weaken as the player likes to play? Don't players have the freedom to choose? Are you making the game better according to the wishes of the players, or do the players have to follow your wishes?

[KlaussKlauss]

16 hours ago, Uhkretor said:

... So glad I've never used those 3 mods... Everyone else is going to cry while I laugh, so much fun hahaha

I am laughing even harder, uninstalled the game, fun hahaha

/s No, i didn't but I am getting progressively more tired of the borefest time-gated grind in content islands and after all that having these bait-and-switch meta changes just to promote more grind for later nerfable hot garbage

What's the point in this any more? 

 

[Venus-Venera]

vor 17 Stunden schrieb rayfalx:

I am not good at English. so I used translator.

I think this gun buff is good, but I don't think a few modes and arcane will improve the guns much.

hey! i also use google translate all the time so that people are not too distracted by "imperfect" grammar from the actual content.

because of arcanes: here it is unclear which arcanes will be available live! if it will be like kitguns, and unlimited ammunition won't be as embarrassingly pointless as with shotguns, then kuva bramma is playable again! and other weapons too ...
too much information is missing here. and i'm sure feedback will be ignored during development.

[Sl4ught3r777]

So berserker activates when u (kill a  enemy) in SP ie lv 165 specially in survival mission by the time you kill with those decreases stat  melee u will die many times .  And talking about those galvanized mods really 6 + forma just to fit that  . And i still don;t get the idea about those primary arcanes it increases multishot and damage and makes  100% ammo max , so no need ammo anymore?.   

It makes no sense.

Also with my current melee nami skyla with 60% blood rush at 12 it equalts to 167% cc it's almost completely orange   but not with blood rush to 40%  it's around 120% so 20% for orange so no more red crits in melee ? witout using all mod slot for a crit specific mod 

also buffing idea quite bad but 100% ammo seriously   why not just remove the ammo 

And previously new mods which turn impact to slash , why not just remove impact ?

Why not just make all weapon same stat so all will be "balanced"

 

 

[rayfalx]

1 hour ago, Battle.Mage said:

i'm sure feedback will be ignored during development.

I think we should continue to say that even if our views are ignored.

Becouse if we don't come up with an opinion, they won't even know how we accept their workshop.

then they may not improve.

That is why I think we should continue to comment. 

Even if it's ignored.

[notHunky]

If everything wasn't being tied to "on kill" effects and the gun "buffs" weren't just side-grades locked behind steel path (aka the main reason guns needed buffs in the first place), then it wouldn't be as bad. The problem is the melee nerfs go way farther than most people think for many weapons, especially the ones with absurdly low attack speeds like hammers. The current suggested changes disproportionately harm the slower weapons in the game. For example:

Fragor Prime: The base speed of this weapon is like watching a train wreck in slow motion. Many of the attacks and combos (especially the first two strikes) feel slower and more cumbersome than just simply using a heavy attack which does far more damage at nearly the same speed of a normal attack... despite having a windup mechanic. Making berserker an "on kill" effect will make dealing with bullet sponges much worse than it already is, especially if DE decides to remove the stagger effect from heavy melee weapons (but I'm not 100% sure if they said they were keeping stagger for heavy weapons or not). Also the speed buff will now only last for less than half of the original duration (was 24 seconds, now 10 seconds), so have fun trying to keep up your attack speed for any duration. The only viable way to use this weapon will be heavy attack builds now, which goes against the whole "freedom of choice" claim DE is trying to sell with this update. Primed Fury is going to be the new go-to attack speed mod for weapons which struggle with speed, but overall they will be worse for wear compared to the high speed meta options like Kronen Prime.

Destreza Prime: The base speed of this weapon is already quick, it's stance inherently procs bleed status, and certain combos open enemies up to finishers. Aside from a slight decrease in attack speed, this weapon will not suffer whatsoever because its normal attacks and combos absolutely melt high level/armored enemies at base attack speed.

Adding insult to injury, they're "solving" the gun problem by adding mods which trigger on kill. If people are already struggling with guns to kill enemies on higher level content, how is adding a buff which only activates on kills supposed to help? Is DE just trolling us at this point?!