If you want to make the Nukor even less dominate than you already have...

[KitMeHarder]

Then remove its unique "microwave" effect from counting as a status proc for Condition Overload.

This whole "Arsenal Divide" thing is to buff guns, yet here you are nerfing them. You already added the Cedo and Epitaph as great alternatives to the Nukor as debuffing weapons, and you for some reason felt it was needed to nerf CO... again (a large reason people even bother to debuff); So why not instead of reducing the number chains the Nukor does (you know, a mechanic that's also useful for the Nukor itself to get kills), you instead do the perfect nerf of removing what is already a unintended mechanic.

Since when you have a mod that requires unique status effects, and a weapon that has an almost exclusive status, you set yourself up for a meta.

[Dauggie]

weapons like nukor always will appear and always will get nerfed if it's used way too much. you can cry and bi tch about it, but's the normal in warframe history. happens all the time, so basically enjoy it while it exist, spending plat for it's rivens? well thats on you

[Alavaris]

53 minutes ago, Dauggie said:

weapons like nukor always will appear and always will get nerfed if it's used way too much. you can cry and bi tch about it, but's the normal in warframe history. happens all the time, so basically enjoy it while it exist, spending plat for it's rivens? well thats on you

That's kind of ironic though. Used too much? If a majority of people use something, they obviously like it. Why'd you punish people for liking what you made? Make more weapons that people like just as much, problem solved. Nothing should ever be nerfed just because people use it too much. 

[(PSN)Svenx13]

vor 5 Stunden schrieb Alavaris:

That's kind of ironic though. Used too much? If a majority of people use something, they obviously like it. Why'd you punish people for liking what you made? Make more weapons that people like just as much, problem solved. Nothing should ever be nerfed just because people use it too much. 

The majority of people like overpowered stuff and overpowered stuff must be nerfed. That is common sense.

[ReddyDisco]

Its like you see a ship sailing slowly towards the edge of a waterfall, new players are in the ship and are drunk and partying, older players have see many a ship sail slowly off the edge and into the abyss.

Kuva nukor is yet another one of those doomed ships 

[Tiltskillet]

I know people always say this, but it's definitely true in this case:  It'll still be a really good weapon.  

[(XBOX)Ampathetiic]

It seems like people don't even bother to think about the nerf itself, and instead get so personally offended at the gesture of the nerf. You could nerf a weapon's stat by 10% or 90%, and either way you get the whole "DE is ruining this gun because players are having fun" nonsense. 

If Kuva Nukor was powerful enough to be used by an overwhelming number of players, then it can probably withstand a reduction in its power. If not, maybe you'll have a reason to use those other weapons that Nukor was previously overshadowing. Anyone remember Pox, Atomos, or Secondary Gaze? Maybe bring along Epitaph to spread status (unless you think the Synth Charge fix ruined that weapon too).

[KitMeHarder]

1 hour ago, (XBOX)Regxxh said:

then it can probably withstand a reduction in its power. If not, maybe you'll have a reason to use those other weapons that Nukor was previously overshadowing. Anyone remember Pox, Atomos, or Secondary Gaze?

The "if not" is an unhealthy thought process. Like I.E. the Catchmoon isn't a bad weapon, but the few places I was still using it ceased as soon as I got the Epitaph. Now if it didn't get nerfed, it might still be worth considering... with my point being new and better armaments would have naturally caused its usage to decrease (just like the Cedo and Epitaph are doing with the Nukor).

And people forget that unlike the Bramma, Catchmoon, Tonkor, Simulor, etc..., that the Nukor had multiple ways to be used in a loadout. Especially in the endurance runs DE is now encouraging. (Which in my experience is where the bulk of my profile usage stats come from. I can love and use a frame like Xaku all the time, but doing a couple 2 hour resource runs as Nekros will put him well above Xaku.)

So if they're framing it like they're nerfing the Nukor to nerf melee, then the perfect nerf already exist to keep it as a strong gun (what the other half of the "Arsenal Divide" is about).

• And the Pox was nerfed in April 2020, is wasn't just replaced. Add in the changes to status weighting and the cap of 10 debuff stacks, and the Pox's over-status is doubly not needed. People forget the game changed, the Nukor wasn't just added.
• The Nukor could have been the Kuva Atomos for all it matters, it basically wouldn't have made a difference. The Atomos is over 6 years old, it needed to be power crept.
• The masses didn't care about the Gaze in the first place. It was a good weapon, but it was effectively a single target one if you looked at the chaining math; So it's not comparable.

[Venus-Venera]

vor 19 Stunden schrieb KitMeHarder:

Then remove its unique "microwave" effect from counting as a status proc for Condition Overload.

This whole "Arsenal Divide" thing is to buff guns, yet here you are nerfing them. You already added the Cedo and Epitaph as great alternatives to the Nukor as debuffing weapons, and you for some reason felt it was needed to nerf CO... again (a large reason people even bother to debuff); So why not instead of reducing the number chains the Nukor does (you know, a mechanic that's also useful for the Nukor itself to get kills), you instead do the perfect nerf of removing what is already a unintended mechanic.

Since when you have a mod that requires unique status effects, and a weapon that has an almost exclusive status, you set yourself up for a meta.

leave kuva nukor alone! The days of single target semi-auto garbage are over.
and it's not about kuva nukor, but rather that ALMOST ALL weapons offer absolutely lousy performance and are not well designed!
and it's not about players switching to a worse weapon! It should be better that many weapons offer top performance and everyone can decide what they want to play with! then DE can develop skins and special effects for old weapons ........

not that seriously affect me. then I'll play with bubonico. only that is just not the right way to create a lot of fun while playing. especially when something is constantly being brainlessly nerfed!

[(XBOX)Ampathetiic]

4 hours ago, KitMeHarder said:

The "if not" is an unhealthy thought process. Like I.E. the Catchmoon isn't a bad weapon, but the few places I was still using it ceased as soon as I got the Epitaph. Now if it didn't get nerfed, it might still be worth considering... with my point being new and better armaments would have naturally caused its usage to decrease (just like the Cedo and Epitaph are doing with the Nukor).

I agree it's an unhealthy mindset. Nerfs don't delete weapons from the game, they merely bring weapons down to the level of being comparable to other options (well, if they're done right). My point is that instead of being mad that you're only secondary option is "ruined", maybe you can consider the other options that can be used the way you may have been using Kuva Nukor, assuming you aren't using Kuva Nukor anymore since it's "ruined".

Also, I don't really see how Epitaph is making Catchmoon redundant. Catchmoon is closer to a shotgun blast with ease of use, where Epitaph is more like a bow that rewards precise aim. If it's just because you enjoy Epitaph more, I can understand that and there's nothing to discuss there. 

Btw while I am talking in the second person, I am not referring to anyone specifically. This may not refer to how you think, but it's addressing a serious issue a good amount of people have when nerfs are brought in.

4 hours ago, KitMeHarder said:

And people forget that unlike the Bramma, Catchmoon, Tonkor, Simulor, etc..., that the Nukor had multiple ways to be used in a loadout. Especially in the endurance runs DE is now encouraging. (Which in my experience is where the bulk of my profile usage stats come from. I can love and use a frame like Xaku all the time, but doing a couple 2 hour resource runs as Nekros will put him well above Xaku.)

I think the fact that Nukor is both powerful and versatile is part of the issue, in the sense that it being the best at several jobs is more reason not to bring other weapons. It's not like the AoE weapons that were mainly nerfed because they were annoying to the rest of the squad. Nukor is being nerfed because of how powerful it is in every situation. Although Kuva Nukor is getting nerfed indirectly through the CO nerfs, we are also getting CO for primaries and secondaries, so plainly nerfing the weapon itself seems like a safe bet for DE, in case the addition of more CO makes Kuva Nukor even stronger.

[KitMeHarder]

35 minutes ago, (XBOX)Regxxh said:

My point is that instead of being mad that you're only secondary option is "ruined", maybe you can consider the other options that can be used the way you may have been using Kuva Nukor, assuming you aren't using Kuva Nukor anymore since it's "ruined".

I made this thread while I was level-headed, I wasn't mad; Nor do I think it will be anymore ruined than the Catchmoon was (I see what you said later). I just offered a way to reduce the Nukor's versatility (as mainly a CO buffer), in the event the devs hadn't more-than-likely known this was the main reason other weapons struggled to compete as primers. 

35 minutes ago, (XBOX)Regxxh said:

Also, I don't really see how Epitaph is making Catchmoon redundant. Catchmoon is closer to a shotgun blast with ease of use, where Epitaph is more like a bow that rewards precise aim.

I personally was using the CM as a high damage secondary (mainly for priority targets), in loadouts where I already had an AoE focused primary/melee. So nothing really to discuss from the community's standpoint, just making an example of how nerfed weapons get power crept too (even when the community thinks the weapon is still strong).

35 minutes ago, (XBOX)Regxxh said:

I think the fact that Nukor is both powerful and versatile is part of the issue, in the sense that it being the best at several jobs is more reason not to bring other weapons.

Yeah, but not at the same time. You don't put crit mods on the Nukor when you use it as primer.

Unlike the days of old with weapons like the Pox, the primer weapons of today can be made just as powerful at killing as they can at debuffing (because they're designed to debuff for the weapon itself). The Cedo, Epitaph, Bubonico, etc... are all that way, just like the Nukor. All of them are S tier weapons, with the only difference being that the Nukor is multi-target at both rolls, not just debuffing.

 

[Monolake]

Lets be real, Knukor is seriously overpowered and has no downsides, it makes other secondaries completely irrelevant, it can already mow down even SP mobs and now its getting huge damage buffs - everyone will continue to spam KNukor even more and all the other secondaries will remain ignored.

You will not even need melee anymore when you got these massive damage buffs on Knukor, what will it be, +900% damage at max stacks? 

+360 damage from arcane, +200 multishot, +320% crit...  nice balance, DE. OP guns are getting insane, while all the MR fodder will remain in the dumpster.

[Lord_Drod]

I mean DE should be able to see how good kuva nukor was when they released it.  It's not like it has some hidden mechanic.  Why would they need % used to tell them its OP?  If it had a normal %, then it's totally fine?  Everyone knew it would be most used weapon on release.  I uninstalled because I don't care about balancing guns w melee.  I don't care about my guns basically sucking in steel path which is a total dead mode once you complete it.  The only reason to do it is for kuva and it's really really not fun.  There's so many other things I'd prioritize and am not happy w starting w the corpus ship tiles, end of mission awful loading and requeing, and the horrible experience of trying to play missions from dojo which is what RJ is unfortunately attached to.  The last creative mode was disruption, which was how many years ago?  DE just not really focusing on the things I care about and spending hours on meaningless %.  If your guns are as powerful or more powerful than melee, what are you ever gonna use melee for?  Next rework:  added 20m range to every melee weapon?

[MoonCrisis]

Stop using Kuva Nukor and use the better one, Sporelacer. If anything, Kuva Nukor should've been nerfed along Bramma, they gave you enough time to play with the broken toy.

[Venus-Venera]

vor einer Stunde schrieb Lord_Drod:

I mean DE should be able to see how good kuva nukor was when they released it.  It's not like it has some hidden mechanic.  Why would they need % used to tell them its OP?

they have determined. they are not underage children!
but the same thing happened with bramma. now this is a bow for garbage can and only embarrassing trolls defend the changes.