Prime lore speculation *MAJOR SPOILERS*

[(PSN)DoctorWho_90250]

Better question: does DE know the answer?

[SneakyErvin]

13 hours ago, Kerberos-3 said:

Not exactly. The Orokin made normal Frames too, as we see with stuff like Protea and Sevagoth. My take on things is that Normal frames are mass-production models, made with the absolute minimum in terms of material quality in order to churn out as many Warframes to throw at the front lines as possible, while the Primes are the elite units, made with the best the Orokin could provide and only given to Tenno who proved worthy of it.

I dont see how we see it with neither Protea or Sevagoth. Yes both are looking like regular frames, but in Proteas case it is a specter made by Parvos that we use in some way to make our frame. We dont know what he based that specter on, if it was a proto, a prime or a regular. For Sevagoth there is nothing that points to the frame being Orokin made. There is no real timelime that places him at a certain point, and way too many years have passed between the old war/uprising and our Tenno running into Sev. 

We also dont know how common or uncommon the orokin materials were during the orokin empire. We just know the tenno had a hard time to obtain them to keep their warmachine going at the point of the uprising and after. But then again the tenno were just a fighting force, not scientists, engineers, alchemists and whatever was needed to keep the orokin supply of materials at the needed level for the empire.

We are in a time that is like the dark ages while the orokin would be ancient greece or early rome in tech comparison. What was rare and mysterious during the dark ages was in ambundance during the high points of greece and rome.

[NocheLuz]

26 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

I dont see how we see it with neither Protea or Sevagoth. Yes both are looking like regular frames, but in Proteas case it is a specter made by Parvos that we use in some way to make our frame. We dont know what he based that specter on, if it was a proto, a prime or a regular. For Sevagoth there is nothing that points to the frame being Orokin made. There is no real timelime that places him at a certain point, and way too many years have passed between the old war/uprising and our Tenno running into Sev.

From the voice line in Call of the Tempestarii quest, we can presume that the Sevagoth we help collected in the quest is after the Fall of Orokin. Because it did not respond to 'Your Golden Master' which should be a correct response for rescue beacon in the Old War. But it responds to 'We, the lost souls', which should be a rescue beacon after the fall of the Orokin Empire. However, the same quest also has some contradictory data. Because it is said that the Tempestarii is missing since the Old War. From this, we can presume that the war isn't over yet when the Tempestarii is missing. So... yeah... we don't really know that Sevagoth we recovered is the first one or just another of the copies by the Tenno.

However, the Tempestarii being called into the void may be one of the traps set up by the Sentients (which also tell us that Sevagoth is one of the Orokin made non-prime warframe). Which we may get some more lore data in the New Wars as they may use the same scheme with us...

[Birdframe_Prime]

12 hours ago, NocheLuz said:

There is someone who said that since it's made in the Orokin era, it should be Primed. But it didn't mean that it was made with Orokin technology. Why? Well... just because it is made within the renaissance era didn't mean that all art items in that era are meant to be a classic renaissance.

Ah, I think you misunderstand that point:

Being made in the Orokin Era, with Orokin Era tech, makes it a Prime. In your analogy, it's less like saying 'just because it's made in the Renaissance era, doesn't make it classic Renaissance art' and instead more like 'This guy is a neuro-surgeon with a specialisation in spatio-sensory correction, while this other guy is a neuro-surgeon with a specialisation in ocular connection repair'.

There were only a few known, or even referenced, people who worked on Warframes, and all of them (no matter the specialisation) were Archimedeans. The highest ranking scientists of the Orokin Era. It was also considered secret R&D for the war effort, so the average Orokin didn't even know that there was a difference between the Tenno and the Warframes. So anyone working on them would be particularly skilled and capable of keeping secrets, or Ballas wouldn't have tolerated them on his project.

Of course they didn't just hand out the tech all over the place, and that's why all of the Warframes created in the Orokin Era are what we, today, call 'Primes'.

12 hours ago, NocheLuz said:

Not to mention the golems (proto-warframe, proto-prime, or whatever), I don't think they are Primed

Please note, the 'golems' were not proto-warframes. They were definitely just Warframes, but without the ability to control them (with the Tenno, specifically) they just reverted to exactly what they were: Infestation. They still are 'golems', by Ballas' definition of them, to this day.

Vitruvian entry is clear on how the Warframes were made, it also is quite absent of saying that there was anything (at all) different in what the Warframes were at the beginning, compared to what they were after the Tenno Transference was discovered. The only difference between the original Warframes and the ensuing ones is the control.

The whole reason we can see that Excalibur exists, while being called 'the first' warframe, is because that frame literally was the first one made. However the very original models? No, they didn't survive. They were re-made when the Tenno showed they could control them, possibly just straight-up cloned from the blueprints that Ballas made when he created the first batch.

[Sloan441]

On 2021-07-12 at 4:11 PM, Genitive said:

While I agree that non-primes came first, I don't think this is what Gara's prime trailer is about. I'm pretty sure it's about how the person who would become Gara volunteered to be turned into a warframe knowing the truth behind the program. As a reward they made her into a glass-controlling warrior.

I don't agree the normal warframes came first. It's pretty clear they're wartime production models. The primes fit in better as garrison types, which is emphasized by their advantages when in the Orokin towers. Considering what ultimately happens, it wouldn't be out of line calling them a Praetorian guard. 

On the other hand, it has been stated is that some Orokin citizens did volunteer to become warframes. Some were "volunteered" and we've seen that as well--several times. There's nothing obvious about which were which, but it is interesting to speculate about their origins.  

[NocheLuz]

  

2 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

There were only a few known, or even referenced, people who worked on Warframes, and all of them (no matter the specialisation) were Archimedeans. The highest ranking scientists of the Orokin Era. It was also considered secret R&D for the war effort, so the average Orokin didn't even know that there was a difference between the Tenno and the Warframes. So anyone working on them would be particularly skilled and capable of keeping secrets, or Ballas wouldn't have tolerated them on his project.

Of course they didn't just hand out the tech all over the place, and that's why all of the Warframes created in the Orokin Era are what we, today, call 'Primes'.

That is an interesting point of view. Well, if that is the case then the normal warframe that we use in the Old War would be considered Primed? IIRC new opening cinematic show normal Warframe fighting the... Primed(?) Grineer. Which is occur after the downfall of the Orokin. But those Grineer still using the 'Primed' armor while Tenno, who have abundant resources and more than enough 'Primed' warframe to end the war use normal one... I don't think so. It is meant to be a normal one because normal warframes were also invented and build within the Orokin era to fight the Old War.

2 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

Please note, the 'golems' were not proto-warframes. They were definitely just Warframes, but without the ability to control them (with the Tenno, specifically) they just reverted to exactly what they were: Infestation. They still are 'golems', by Ballas' definition of them, to this day.

Vitruvian entry is clear on how the Warframes were made, it also is quite absent of saying that there was anything (at all) different in what the Warframes were at the beginning, compared to what they were after the Tenno Transference was discovered. The only difference between the original Warframes and the ensuing ones is the control.

The whole reason we can see that Excalibur exists, while being called 'the first' warframe, is because that frame literally was the first one made. However the very original models? No, they didn't survive. They were re-made when the Tenno showed they could control them, possibly just straight-up cloned from the blueprints that Ballas made when he created the first batch.

TBH, I thought Warframe is just a golem that has a transference bolt built into them... Because it requires the bolt to be built into the Warframe for transference to stabilize. Not to mention we don't really need the bolt to control the warframe. As we saw in the war within, we can control the golden maw directly without the bolt... or in Rhino Prime codex, where everything starts with the kid controlling the rampage golem. But yes, I do think that almost none of the original warframe survive the Old War. But since even the normal warframe had the same memories as the original one. I do think that even a normal warframe is built with the old Orokin technique (that is why it requires Orokin Cell).

 

[SneakyErvin]

5 hours ago, NocheLuz said:

From the voice line in Call of the Tempestarii quest, we can presume that the Sevagoth we help collected in the quest is after the Fall of Orokin. Because it did not respond to 'Your Golden Master' which should be a correct response for rescue beacon in the Old War. But it responds to 'We, the lost souls', which should be a rescue beacon after the fall of the Orokin Empire. However, the same quest also has some contradictory data. Because it is said that the Tempestarii is missing since the Old War. From this, we can presume that the war isn't over yet when the Tempestarii is missing. So... yeah... we don't really know that Sevagoth we recovered is the first one or just another of the copies by the Tenno.

However, the Tempestarii being called into the void may be one of the traps set up by the Sentients (which also tell us that Sevagoth is one of the Orokin made non-prime warframe). Which we may get some more lore data in the New Wars as they may use the same scheme with us...

I think it all depends how they define the end of the old war. The fall is essentially at the very end of the old war when the tenno uprising begins, which should still be part of the old war era. That means it is possible the Tempestarii got lost in relation to that,  a tenno that simply stole it with his warframe in order to use it while hunting down the orokin.

34 minutes ago, NocheLuz said:

  

That is an interesting point of view. Well, if that is the case then the normal warframe that we use in the Old War would be considered Primed? IIRC new opening cinematic show normal Warframe fighting the... Primed(?) Grineer. Which is occur after the downfall of the Orokin. But those Grineer still using the 'Primed' armor while Tenno, who have abundant resources and more than enough 'Primed' warframe to end the war use normal one... I don't think so. It is meant to be a normal one because normal warframes were also invented and build within the Orokin era to fight the Old War.

TBH, I thought Warframe is just a golem that has a transference bolt built into them... Because it requires the bolt to be built into the Warframe for transference to stabilize. Not to mention we don't really need the bolt to control the warframe. As we saw in the war within, we can control the golden maw directly without the bolt... or in Rhino Prime codex, where everything starts with the kid controlling the rampage golem. But yes, I do think that almost none of the original warframe survive the Old War. But since even the normal warframe had the same memories as the original one. I do think that even a normal warframe is built with the old Orokin technique (that is why it requires Orokin Cell).

 

I think the Grineer in the cinematic are just early grineer clones shortly after the end of the old war, when they began to rise as a faction of their own. Which would explain why they have access to more "shiny" armor. Just as there are still dax around in the cinematic aswell. The grineer keeps salvaging old war tech and turning it into their own, so the cinematic probably shows their drop ships prior to them getting grineerified.

The transference bolt likely came to be when they needed the tenno to control the frame, not to take over it only, but to be able to channel the void through it. Transference bolts seem to be there to remove memories and emotions from frames, since Ballas has a specific bolt installed in Umbra, just in order to keep a single memory still there, the death of his son. The maw is probably different, since it is fully a machine, while Waframes are part helminth, part human (some atleast) and part machine. And for the frames I think the control only stretches as far as calming them down if they dont have a transference bolt.

A thing to note aswell is that we have small pieces of Warframe info spread across the game. There have been several different warframe versions, the "somatic fiber" resource indicates that.

[Sanktai]

It's not too far fetched to assume that smaller Orokin factions rose for short times after the fall of the Empire. The Dax and Grineer seen in the cinematic could very well just be remnants of a fractured empire. The Empire didn't fall in a single day, and if it worked anything like other Empires in human history, there would still be holdout "loyalists" fighting to restore what was lost, or preserve what is left (and ultimately failing in the end), or even succeeding in a sense, as seen with the Grineer (the queen(s) is/are Orokin after all). 

[(PSN)Tactless_Ninja]

My headcanon is that they use an individual as a base, infest them, and pair them with a Tenno who vicariously became them. Kinda like how two sides of the brain are just one brain y'know? 

Ordis was in a similar ceremony to be Warframed but got Cephalon'd instead because of his rebellion. 

All cloned Warframes are pure Infested structures and are more suited to being controlled. Would explain why other factions are able to control them (Spectors) and how they don't innately have any free will like Umbra, an original model. 

Primes are just fancy armor. The toggle on some armor sets confirm this. 

[NocheLuz]

10 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

I think it all depends how they define the end of the old war. The fall is essentially at the very end of the old war when the tenno uprising begins, which should still be part of the old war era. That means it is possible the Tempestarii got lost in relation to that,  a tenno that simply stole it with his warframe in order to use it while hunting down the orokin.

  Yeah, it is kinda hard to tell where the Old War ends. Is it where the Sentients retreat? or where the Tenno are all asleep? I don't really know. But I assume it is rather connected to the Sentients since both the Old War and the New War started with the Sentients' invasion. However, what we are doing right now only call a skirmish. I assume that because the Tenno number was so much lower compared to the Old War. This leads to the question of how the Old War ends. If the War ends and only a skirmish remain that would rather make sense. But if the Old War ends with Tenno go back to sleep... Then what makes its end? the peace? or because the Lotus told them to sleep? Then why? It is rather convenient to mark the end of the Old War when the Sentients are all retreating. Except we got new lore...

10 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

I think the Grineer in the cinematic are just early grineer clones shortly after the end of the old war, when they began to rise as a faction of their own. Which would explain why they have access to more "shiny" armor. Just as there are still dax around in the cinematic aswell. The grineer keeps salvaging old war tech and turning it into their own, so the cinematic probably shows their drop ships prior to them getting grineerified.

Yes!! Shortly is the keyword here. Why normal warframe exist 'shortly' after the end of the Old War (presumably after the Sentients retreat)? Because it has already existed when the Old War was still happening!! We can assume that even the Warframe was built with the Orokin Technique, it can be normal or Primed. Not all warframe built in the Old War have golden armor and called them Primed when you are losing the War. Faster production to pump out numbers is the key. Not to mention even if they do die or lose, they can just send out a new one to fight right away.

Basically, not all Warframe built during the Orokin Era is Primed. I do personally think most of them are normal. Only some of them that do well got the Primed treatment.

[SneakyErvin]

7 hours ago, NocheLuz said:

  Yeah, it is kinda hard to tell where the Old War ends. Is it where the Sentients retreat? or where the Tenno are all asleep? I don't really know. But I assume it is rather connected to the Sentients since both the Old War and the New War started with the Sentients' invasion. However, what we are doing right now only call a skirmish. I assume that because the Tenno number was so much lower compared to the Old War. This leads to the question of how the Old War ends. If the War ends and only a skirmish remain that would rather make sense. But if the Old War ends with Tenno go back to sleep... Then what makes its end? the peace? or because the Lotus told them to sleep? Then why? It is rather convenient to mark the end of the Old War when the Sentients are all retreating. Except we got new lore...

Yes!! Shortly is the keyword here. Why normal warframe exist 'shortly' after the end of the Old War (presumably after the Sentients retreat)? Because it has already existed when the Old War was still happening!! We can assume that even the Warframe was built with the Orokin Technique, it can be normal or Primed. Not all warframe built in the Old War have golden armor and called them Primed when you are losing the War. Faster production to pump out numbers is the key. Not to mention even if they do die or lose, they can just send out a new one to fight right away.

Basically, not all Warframe built during the Orokin Era is Primed. I do personally think most of them are normal. Only some of them that do well got the Primed treatment.

Well the war with the sentients ended prior to the tenno uprising so the old war was technically over at that point. I wouldnt be surprised if Sevagoth was an original frame given how he acts in the quest and is essentially alive and dies. So it is possible he has been an original that never went insane nor had a tenno to control him until when we rebuild the frame now, atleast not that specific Sevagoth, since there has obviously been a prime version aswell. Kinda like Titania.

And normal frames arent just unprimed frames, so cant be built with orokin technique, since the whole deal with them is that they are knock offs that were made since orokin materials ran scarse for the tenno so they needed a solution to make their own frames without the need of the orokin that they planned on killing. No reason for the Orokin not to make primes during the old war since there was never an indication of the Orokin losing the war at that point. And spitting out more frames than needed would serve no purpose, since they are limited by the number of tenno there are to control them. DE even tells us in their own description of primes that they use orokin tech compared to the normal ones that dont.

All frames that we will run into will have had a prime at one point in time.

[NocheLuz]

26 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

And normal frames arent just unprimed frames, so cant be built with orokin technique, since the whole deal with them is that they are knock offs that were made since orokin materials ran scarse for the tenno so they needed a solution to make their own frames without the need of the orokin that they planned on killing. No reason for the Orokin not to make primes during the old war since there was never an indication of the Orokin losing the war at that point. And spitting out more frames than needed would serve no purpose, since they are limited by the number of tenno there are to control them. DE even tells us in their own description of primes that they use orokin tech compared to the normal ones that dont.

All frames that we will run into will have had a prime at one point in time.

Umm... The whole reason Tenno was born is to fight Sentients in the losing war... Orokin already losing territory and find a way to get out from that. As we know the Infestation isn't much help as they do nothing to the Sentients. They do, however, try to spitting out golems to fight for their sake... well... we already know the results... After they deployed the Tenno, the Orokin slowly gained back the momentum and spitting out the new lines of warframe one after another.

Also, the technique isn't equal to technology. As within our real world, we can use the old techniques with newer technology. Basically, the technique is just a protocol while technology is what makes it happen.

[SneakyErvin]

3 minutes ago, NocheLuz said:

Umm... The whole reason Tenno was born is to fight Sentients in the losing war... Orokin already losing territory and find a way to get out from that. As we know the Infestation isn't much help as they do nothing to the Sentients. They do, however, try to spitting out golems to fight for their sake... well... we already know the results... After they deployed the Tenno, the Orokin slowly gained back the momentum and spitting out the new lines of warframe one after another.

Also, the technique isn't equal to technology. As within our real world, we can use the old techniques with newer technology. Basically, the technique is just a protocol while technology is what makes it happen.

No. The tenno were turned into a fighting force to control the frames that failed on their own because the human host in most of them went insane. This didnt happen until further down the line when their effect on frames was discovered by accident as seen in the Rhino Prime entry. This turned the tide yes, but where do you get the idea from that they spat out line after line of warframes? We know of 3 lines, originals, primes and knock offs. 

Yes, but the regular frames we use are not "genuine Orokin articles" as DE puts it. So they werent made by the Orokin as replacements for the primes the tenno used.

 

[NocheLuz]

2 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

No. The tenno were turned into a fighting force to control the frames that failed on their own because the human host in most of them went insane. This didnt happen until further down the line when their effect on frames was discovered by accident as seen in the Rhino Prime entry. This turned the tide yes, but where do you get the idea from that they spat out line after line of warframes? We know of 3 lines, originals, primes and knock offs. 

Yes, but the regular frames we use are not "genuine Orokin articles" as DE puts it. So they werent made by the Orokin as replacements for the primes the tenno used.

 

First, it is stated in the lore as bright as day that Orokin is losing territory and cannot fight the Sentients effectively (due to their adaptation). They first used the Infestation to try to slow them down... the result? Infestation did nothing. They avoid each other and did not even slow the Sentients down. Secondly, after they invented the Helminth strain of the Infestation. They build the golems to fight the Sentients. Although proving to be effective, they cannot control them. After that, it is the incident within the Rhino Prime codex and the birth of the first Tenno. The higher up so know that the Tenno is dangerous but still leave them be anyway. Because they have no choice but to use them. They are losing the war, they would use anything they can to get back what they lose.

Also, I think you misunderstood the word 'line'. I did use it as intended to be a 'Production line' kind of meaning... Basically, they pumping a newer 'kind' of warframe (Excalibur, Frost, ember, etc.), not the type (normal, prime, umbra) of the warframe.

I think after the Orokin deployed the Tenno. I think most of the Warframe was made by the Tenno (or the foundry within the Orbiter). Also, it feels like the Primed is one of the highest honor they can get from the Orokin. So, we can presume that the first Warframe of each kind may not be a Primed. But since it is research with Orokin technology... we can kinda call them Primed... well, it's kinda confusing.

[Sanktai]

2 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Well the war with the sentients ended prior to the tenno uprising so the old war was technically over at that point. I wouldnt be surprised if Sevagoth was an original frame given how he acts in the quest and is essentially alive and dies. So it is possible he has been an original that never went insane nor had a tenno to control him until when we rebuild the frame now, atleast not that specific Sevagoth, since there has obviously been a prime version aswell. Kinda like Titania.

And normal frames arent just unprimed frames, so cant be built with orokin technique, since the whole deal with them is that they are knock offs that were made since orokin materials ran scarse for the tenno so they needed a solution to make their own frames without the need of the orokin that they planned on killing. No reason for the Orokin not to make primes during the old war since there was never an indication of the Orokin losing the war at that point. And spitting out more frames than needed would serve no purpose, since they are limited by the number of tenno there are to control them. DE even tells us in their own description of primes that they use orokin tech compared to the normal ones that dont.

All frames that we will run into will have had a prime at one point in time.

I see Sevagoth as being in a Rell type of situation, but stuck in the Warframe. Him being stuck in the void means he wasn't able to actually sleep with the rest of the Tenno. The Sevagoth's Tenno could have binded hisself to his Warframe. There's no reason to believe this is something that only one Tenno is capable of doing. That's my interpretation of it anyway. 

In a war, especially a large one, there is always a need to spit out more stuff than you can actually man. This has happened in probably every war throughout human history, and for a reason. You always want to have spare weapons/vehicles in case the ones you're soldiers are currently using break, or are destroyed. It's not too hard to believe that the Orokin mass manufactured non prime variants, and only primed a Warframe on very special occasions and under very specific circumstances (this is actually hinted at a couple instances at least in the lore, with Ivara, and Gara and arguably Excal Umbra). Also, I can't fathom the Orokin allowing their soldiers to create their own weapons. With how structured the Orokin were, and how much control the hierarchy had, it's really hard to see this being the case. In the eyes of the Orokin, they had control over the Tenno. The Orokin knew these were children, yes capable of tremendous feats, and incredibly dangerous, but children none-the-less. Also, I don't think the Tenno "planned" on killing the Orokin. It's implied that they were triggered by Octavia's Anthem (?) iirc, to start the killings. It wasn't some pre-emptive strike by the Tenno, it was Natahs plan. 

[SneakyErvin]

27 minutes ago, NocheLuz said:

First, it is stated in the lore as bright as day that Orokin is losing territory and cannot fight the Sentients effectively (due to their adaptation). They first used the Infestation to try to slow them down... the result? Infestation did nothing. They avoid each other and did not even slow the Sentients down. Secondly, after they invented the Helminth strain of the Infestation. They build the golems to fight the Sentients. Although proving to be effective, they cannot control them. After that, it is the incident within the Rhino Prime codex and the birth of the first Tenno. The higher up so know that the Tenno is dangerous but still leave them be anyway. Because they have no choice but to use them. They are losing the war, they would use anything they can to get back what they lose.

Also, I think you misunderstood the word 'line'. I did use it as intended to be a 'Production line' kind of meaning... Basically, they pumping a newer 'kind' of warframe (Excalibur, Frost, ember, etc.), not the type (normal, prime, umbra) of the warframe.

I think after the Orokin deployed the Tenno. I think most of the Warframe was made by the Tenno (or the foundry within the Orbiter). Also, it feels like the Primed is one of the highest honor they can get from the Orokin. So, we can presume that the first Warframe of each kind may not be a Primed. But since it is research with Orokin technology... we can kinda call them Primed... well, it's kinda confusing.

Yes, they lost territory until the frames were created, but then the frames proved to come with their very own problem which required the tenno. The tenno were turned into an army more to be able to control the frames to fight the sentients than turned into an army to fight the sentients.

And those line were already there. Most of them were part of the first bio-drones.

You cannot call them "prime" and certainly not "primed" since they arent prime or primed frames, even DE says so when describing the differences between primes and others. And why would the tenno build frames when the orokin are there to provide them with it. They dont need it until they finally rebel against the orokin. They arent trained to build frames to begin with, that isnt their mission, they do it because they are forced to in the end to complete their "crusade" against the Orokin. There is a vague hint at a tenno council, but that is a reference to the player design council. Though a council is only made up by a few, to come up with ideas for frames, still those are made by the Orokin in the end, the people that know and came up with the tech behind it.

The non-primes are unrelated to the Orokin since they arent genuine, and that is DE saying that. And if something isnt genuine in product terms, it is a knock-off, replica or counterfeit. If they were Orokin made they would be genuine and just a seperate mark of the frame.

[SneakyErvin]

2 minutes ago, Sanktai said:

I see Sevagoth as being in a Rell type of situation, but stuck in the Warframe. Him being stuck in the void means he wasn't able to actually sleep with the rest of the Tenno. The Sevagoth's Tenno could have binded hisself to his Warframe. There's no reason to believe this is something that only one Tenno is capable of doing. That's my interpretation of it anyway. 

In a war, especially a large one, there is always a need to spit out more stuff than you can actually man. This has happened in probably every war throughout human history, and for a reason. You always want to have spare weapons/vehicles in case the ones you're soldiers are currently using break, or are destroyed. It's not too hard to believe that the Orokin mass manufactured non prime variants, and only primed a Warframe on very special occasions and under very specific circumstances (this is actually hinted at a couple instances at least in the lore, with Ivara, and Gara and arguably Excal Umbra). Also, I can't fathom the Orokin allowing their soldiers to create their own weapons. With how structured the Orokin were, and how much control the hierarchy had, it's really hard to see this being the case. In the eyes of the Orokin, they had control over the Tenno. The Orokin knew these were children, yes capable of tremendous feats, and incredibly dangerous, but children none-the-less. Also, I don't think the Tenno "planned" on killing the Orokin. It's implied that they were triggered by something to start the killings. It wasn't some pre-emptive strike, it was Natahs plan. 

That is possible, though it disappearing during the old war, or well not being seen since (which can mean alot) makes that hard to believe. Unless maybe it was attacked by Sevagoth and its Tenno at the end of the war and that is the reason why it disappeared.

According to DE it is hard to believe that the Orokin created "regular" frames for the tenno given what they say regarding the differences between the two types of frames. Which is why those frames didnt pop up until later when the tenno had secretly made them, like it is with hoarding weaponry in most uprisings. I definently do not thing the Orokin allowed them to build them, especially not when they'd be inferior aswell. The Orokin are a vain-as-hell civilization.

[Serafim_94]

Between numerous quests and Leverian expositions, it's impossible to deny that basic warframes are originals. Primes get pimped out later.

[Brinstar7777]

On 2021-07-12 at 3:42 PM, (PSN)bitraiser said:

Hey Tenno.

I've got a bit if lore theory crafting to bounce off you about the nature of Primes.

[SERIOUS SPOILER ALERTS!] 

I think moat of us assume that the Prime form is the original model and that the basic version is a copy... But I had another idea.

What if the basic version is the original, grown from an actual person, as we saw with Umbra. I assume the normal process wouldn't include psychological torture, but... Yeah. This means there's an actual corpse incorporated into each of these Warframes.

So the Orokin take those basic models and clone them, but make changes and strip away any possible "residue" of personality or consciousness. They even prominently feature the same kind of golden cosmetics that we see on the Corrupted. Lore tells us that the fancy gold jewelry is actually control collars. It's how the void pillars (that still haven't been explained) maintain control over their slaves.

As a Tenno this means that when you're wearing a Prime, it's an extension of "you", but if you're jacked into a basic frame there might be someone in there with you.

I think it's the other way arround: basic warframes are the stripped down, mass production models, and primes are the original sets of warframes. Hence why your orbiter can produce basic warframes relatively easily, but needs components from the void to produce primes.

[Sanktai]

16 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

That is possible, though it disappearing during the old war, or well not being seen since (which can mean alot) makes that hard to believe. Unless maybe it was attacked by Sevagoth and its Tenno at the end of the war and that is the reason why it disappeared.

According to DE it is hard to believe that the Orokin created "regular" frames for the tenno given what they say regarding the differences between the two types of frames. Which is why those frames didnt pop up until later when the tenno had secretly made them, like it is with hoarding weaponry in most uprisings. I definently do not thing the Orokin allowed them to build them, especially not when they'd be inferior aswell. The Orokin are a vain-as-hell civilization.

Sevagoth was lost to a void storm. The Grineer and Corpus have a hard time even gaining a foothold in Orokin towers, let alone in a spatial void. It's entirely possible that the Tenno, out of fear for his/her life, binded themselves to their frame. Remember, Sevagoths frame was lost to the void, while his astral self was roaming trying to reunite. This could mean Sevagoth was instinctually looking for his other self, or the Tenno was controlling the ghost to try to locate hisself these are both possibilities. 

 

Also there is no evidence that non-primed variants popped up later. We see multiple times, non-primed variants fighting against sentients alongside primed warframes. And there are several instances of the Orokin delegating non-primed frames to primed status (like once again, Gara and Ivara). 

 

24 minutes ago, Serafim_94 said:

Between numerous quests and Leverian expositions, it's impossible to deny that basic warframes are originals. Primes get pimped out later.

 

This.

[NocheLuz]

20 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

You cannot call them "prime" and certainly not "primed" since they arent prime or primed frames, even DE says so when describing the differences between primes and others. And why would the tenno build frames when the orokin are there to provide them with it. They dont need it until they finally rebel against the orokin. They arent trained to build frames to begin with, that isnt their mission, they do it because they are forced to in the end to complete their "crusade" against the Orokin. There is a vague hint at a tenno council, but that is a reference to the player design council. Though a council is only made up by a few, to come up with ideas for frames, still those are made by the Orokin in the end, the people that know and came up with the tech behind it.

The non-primes are unrelated to the Orokin since they arent genuine, and that is DE saying that. And if something isnt genuine in product terms, it is a knock-off, replica or counterfeit. If they were Orokin made they would be genuine and just a seperate mark of the frame.

If what Orokin supply Tenno is all Primed. Then why the frames that stay behind protecting them are not Primed? I refer to the Stalker, he should have stayed behind while the Tenno are all going out the fight the Old War. He, who should have been live through the Old War, the Tenno rebellion, and the present day. Have not been Primed. He, who stays with the Orokin all the time, HAD NOT BEEN PRIMED!! Why? It may be because the resources are low or the original production line of the Stalker isn't really been Primed.

But yes, the 'normal' warframe isn't the genuine Orokin technology. It is possible that they do build a handful or Primed after they complete the research on each warframe. Then send out the blueprint for the Tenno to scavage the resources and build them on their own. This is all based on after the Old War and the Fallen of the Orokin Empire. The Tenno, who do not have the Warframe Technology, can still pump out normal Warframe. It is possible that Tenno's research on how to make the Warframe themselves (this is including the Transference bolt) base on the finished product they have got. But the time frame after the Old War doesn't really allow that. As the Tenno went back to sleep not that long after the fall of the Orokin Empire. As state in the Lotus and Natah memories. Also, base on the old planning of Hunhow to destroy all Tenno shortly after the fall of the Orokin.

[Sanktai]

12 minutes ago, Brinstar7777 said:

I think it's the other way arround: basic warframes are the stripped down, mass production models, and primes are the original sets of warframes. Hence why your orbiter can produce basic warframes relatively easily, but needs components from the void to produce primes.

 

That would make sense if it weren't for frames such as Gara, and Ivara, which are explicitly stated to have gained their primed status, as in the started off as normal frames. Also, Excalibur is stated to be the first warframe period, not Excalibur Prime, and not Excalibur Umbra. Just normal old Excalibur. 

[Brinstar7777]

Just now, Sanktai said:

 

That would make sense if it weren't for frames such as Gara, and Ivara, which are explicitly stated to have gained their primed status, as in the started off as normal frames. Also, Excalibur is stated to be the first warframe period, not Excalibur Prime, and not Excalibur Umbra. Just normal old Excalibur. 

By Excalibur, I think they mean Excalibur Umbra.

And besides, it could be that, for Gara and Ivara, the orokin started with the normal versions and created the improved prime versions later.

[NocheLuz]

6 minutes ago, Brinstar7777 said:

By Excalibur, I think they mean Excalibur Umbra.

And besides, it could be that, for Gara and Ivara, the orokin started with the normal versions and created the improved prime versions later.

AFAIK, Gara gained the Primed status because the one who would become Gara, knowing the truth behind the project, still volunteered to be transformed into Gara. So they give her the honor of being Primed. We can presume that if not for this reason, Gara should be started as a normal Warframe, presumably, like any other Warframe.

[Brinstar7777]

47 minutes ago, NocheLuz said:

AFAIK, Gara gained the Primed status because the one who would become Gara, knowing the truth behind the project, still volunteered to be transformed into Gara. So they give her the honor of being Primed. We can presume that if not for this reason, Gara should be started as a normal Warframe, presumably, like any other Warframe.

Not necessarily. They could have decided to Prime her solely because she volunteered. It's very possible Gara prime could have been the first warframe of the 'gara' make.