Yareli problems

[Fl_3]

There's someone in our clan who rates Yareli simply because, and I quote.

"Her 2 makes her faster than Volt"

The frame is bad, and her fans are really having to clutch at straws to find positive things about her.

This is what happens when your entire concept for a frame is basically "Wow, look how amazing this piece of fan art is"

You can do better than this DE.

[FrostDragoon]

1 minute ago, Fl_3 said:

There's someone in our clan who rates Yareli simply because, and I quote.

"Her 2 makes her faster than Volt"

That's actually hilarious because if the Volt hits a wall, he just jumps off it and continues on a "lightning" speed. If Yareli hits a wall, she will probably get rag-dolled to another solar system or reset back to the spot where she got on it. Her speed also comes at the cost of not being able to use your primary/melee weapons and not having a full kit, unlike Volt who buffs all of his weapons better than she does for her secondaries with her needlessly conditional passive--and speaking of passives that buff you when you move, Volt does this better too.

[PublikDomain]

I've been playing her for the past few days hunting Liches and Sisters and she's OK. Definitely not good, but also not nearly as bad as people make her out to be. There's a pretty clear path to her being decent with a few mechanical changes. Let K-Drives use Primaries, let Merulina be modded, change her 4 to be a cast/detonate like Nezha's 4 and add a synergy with her 1 to draw in more enemies, and give her 3 a damage resistance mechanic and range scaling. Edit: And Merulina's damage absorption should take damage after defensive stats. There was only time for one pass on her kit before TennoCon shut everything down, and as long as DE isn't scared away by the people who will hate her regardless then I think she can be decent.

[EmberStar]

From my point of view:  There are a few major problems with Yareli as way of interacting with the game world.

First, her "core concept" is that she's a K-Drive Warframe... when K-drives are a broken, buggy, half finished mess in the open world.  And, as it turns out, almost unplayable on most interior tilesets.  You think Necramechs get hung up on stuff?  At least with a Necramech you can control where you're going and just walk around some of the worst offenders.  I've had to abort missions twice now because somehow I slid under some Grineer stairs and got so stuck that even dismissing Merulina didn't help.  And no, /unstuck didn't work.  It almost never works.

Second, the mission to acquire her is based on engaging with a system that I suspect the vast majority of players completely ignore.  It's not engaging or innovative, it's a checklist of "do this random thing that you might never figure out how to do unless you Youtube."  And that's ignoring my own experience, where a certain part of it is so completely bugged that it's impossible for me to finish it.  There are 'frames that are grindy and difficult to get, enough that it "feels" like they're pushing people to just buy them.  Yareli leans HARD in this direction, in my opinion.

Third, the concept of "K-Drives in normal missions" just isn't supported by the game mechanics.  You're limited to a single kind of weapon, you lose most of the mobility that people enjoy.  One of the big complaints against Necramechs is that they're slow and clunky.  I feel Necramechs are absolutely agile compared to sliding around on Merulina like ice on a hot stovetop.  It turns out that Merulina is also one of a handful of things in this game that make me seriously motion sick - the others being Volt's Speed, which I hate beyond my language skills to express, and Zephyr's Turbulence Augment.

[f0ba]

Her DR ability shouldn’t be bound to Kdrive, especially when it makes her less mobile, a bigger target, and no knockdown resistance.

More detailed suggestions.

[EvilDarknessAlien]

On 2021-07-25 at 1:50 PM, FrostDragoon said:

That's actually hilarious because if the Volt hits a wall, he just jumps off it and continues on a "lightning" speed. If Yareli hits a wall, she will probably get rag-dolled to another solar system or reset back to the spot where she got on it. Her speed also comes at the cost of not being able to use your primary/melee weapons and not having a full kit, unlike Volt who buffs all of his weapons better than she does for her secondaries with her needlessly conditional passive--and speaking of passives that buff you when you move, Volt does this better too.

yes just volt buff + yareli k-drive bug alot, well after days i subsume yareli waiting the hotfix.

[FrostDragoon]

On 2021-07-25 at 12:38 PM, PublikDomain said:

I've been playing her for the past few days hunting Liches and Sisters and she's OK. Definitely not good, but also not nearly as bad as people make her out to be. There's a pretty clear path to her being decent with a few mechanical changes. Let K-Drives use Primaries, let Merulina be modded, change her 4 to be a cast/detonate like Nezha's 4 and add a synergy with her 1 to draw in more enemies, and give her 3 a damage resistance mechanic and range scaling. Edit: And Merulina's damage absorption should take damage after defensive stats. There was only time for one pass on her kit before TennoCon shut everything down, and as long as DE isn't scared away by the people who will hate her regardless then I think she can be decent.

I don't hate most of her concept. However, it was an utter blunder to put K-Drive in her kit. If they can admit that was a mistake and fix her up, I'd probably like her quite a bit, because I can see where her design would go if it wasn't hamstrung by this childish idea of "Wouldn't it be cool if..." that lead to this K-Drive disaster in the first place.

Most of us that do hate her design do mostly just for this reason. The rest is just basic issues every frame faces.

[PublikDomain]

On 2021-07-29 at 3:41 AM, FrostDragoon said:

I don't hate most of her concept. However, it was an utter blunder to put K-Drive in her kit. If they can admit that was a mistake and fix her up, I'd probably like her quite a bit, because I can see where her design would go if it wasn't hamstrung by this childish idea of "Wouldn't it be cool if..." that lead to this K-Drive disaster in the first place.

Most of us that do hate her design do mostly just for this reason. The rest is just basic issues every frame faces.

I don't think the K-Drive is going anywhere, nor should it. You can always subsume it off if you're that dead-set against using it.

[FrostDragoon]

15 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

I don't think the K-Drive is going anywhere, nor should it. You can always subsume it off if you're that dead-set against using it.

No, they absolutely should remove K-Drive from her kit. She's never going to be taken seriously until they do, will always be seen as the frame that was so bad it makes Hydroid look positively meta by comparison.

[Tesseract7777]

3 minutes ago, FrostDragoon said:

No, they absolutely should remove K-Drive from her kit. She's never going to be taken seriously until they do, will always be seen as the frame that was so bad it makes Hydroid look positively meta by comparison.

Never going to happen. You should probably get that idea out of your head, you'll only torment yourself. 

[FrostDragoon]

1 minute ago, Tesseract7777 said:

Never going to happen. You should probably get that idea out of your head, you'll only torment yourself. 

It's possible you're right, but I'm going to bang that drum until they see reason because they are very clearly wrong about this.

[Tesseract7777]

5 minutes ago, FrostDragoon said:

It's possible you're right, but I'm going to bang that drum until they see reason because they are very clearly wrong about this.

You are entitled to metaphorically bang your brain against the wall until you get several concussions if you want to, but I think it is more than I might be right: I am right. I am personally convinced they would never change the core design philosophy of a particular Warframe, especially when we have eleventy billion other choices and growing. 

My precedent? Like... all of their past decisions. Even when doing drastic reworks, the core idea of the Warframe always remains, and Yareli's core design idea is riding on a K-Drive, her quest even includes you doing the tricks to get her blueprint, and explains that Merulina, her K-Drive like companion thing, was the inspiration for K-Drives in the first place. 

It's like expecting them to get rid of Temporal Anchor and the core function of how it works, just because a lot of Protea's subsume it off. Either because it is too tricky to make useful, too unreliable, doesn't feel to them like it fits the rest of her theme, or some combination of all three. The problem is, Temporal Anchor is deeply connected to Protea's quest, her theme, and her entire existence. So you can't just "take it off because of design issues with her kit/player dislike of ability", because it is too thematically attached. 

[FrostDragoon]

10 minutes ago, Tesseract7777 said:

You are entitled to metaphorically bang your brain against the wall until you get several concussions if you want to, but I think it is more than I might be right: I am right. I am personally convinced they would never change the core design philosophy of a particular Warframe, especially when we have eleventy billion other choices and growing. 

My precedent? Like... all of their past decisions. Even when doing drastic reworks, the core idea of the Warframe always remains, and Yareli's core design idea is riding on a K-Drive, her quest even includes you doing the tricks to get her blueprint, and explains that Merulina, her K-Drive like companion thing, was the inspiration for K-Drives in the first place. 

It's like expecting them to get rid of Temporal Anchor and the core function of how it works, just because a lot of Protea's subsume it off. Either because it is too tricky to make useful, too unreliable, doesn't feel to them like it fits the rest of her theme, or some combination of all three. The problem is, Temporal Anchor is deeply connected to Protea's quest, her theme, and her entire existence. So you can't just "take it off because of design issues with her kit/player dislike of ability", because it is too thematically attached. 

In most circumstances I would 100% agree with you. However, what makes this different is that K-Drive in particular is wildly unpopular and disliked by players of the game, it doesn't work in most places in the game, and there isn't a way to for DE to reconcile this to make her acceptable without removing K-Drive from her. What's more likely to be an acceptable alternative is to divorce her kit from the K-Drive itself, but make K-Drives usable anywhere, then give her all kinds of K-Drive synergies in her kit rather than having an ability that explicitly is one. This would keep it in line with the quest, fulfill DE's goal of getting more people to use K-Drives in the first place, and satisfy the players that want to play her but can't stand K-Drives.

So, no. You're not right. Neither is DE (yet). This needs to be fixed.

[PublikDomain]

34 minutes ago, FrostDragoon said:

No, they absolutely should remove K-Drive from her kit. She's never going to be taken seriously until they do, will always be seen as the frame that was so bad it makes Hydroid look positively meta by comparison.

You could remove it from her kit yourself, though? I like Merulina and I look forward to it being improved.

[FrostDragoon]

27 minutes ago, Tesseract7777 said:

It's like expecting them to get rid of Temporal Anchor and the core function of how it works, just because a lot of Protea's subsume it off. Either because it is too tricky to make useful, too unreliable, doesn't feel to them like it fits the rest of her theme, or some combination of all three. The problem is, Temporal Anchor is deeply connected to Protea's quest, her theme, and her entire existence. So you can't just "take it off because of design issues with her kit/player dislike of ability", because it is too thematically attached. 

This is a failed proposition. DE reworked their most iconic frame in the game (Excal) at one point, removed WOF from Ember (the ability she was most known/used for), and reworked Wukong into a completely different play style. A janky a/f frame that just recently released to massive negative criticism isn't safe.

[Tesseract7777]

19 minutes ago, FrostDragoon said:

So, no. You're not right. Neither is DE (yet). This needs to be fixed.

Believe what you want man you have a right to it. And I'll continue believing you are doing the metaphorical equivalent of headbutting a cement barrier in a particularly stubborn way that is only going to give yourself a headache. 

[Tesseract7777]

5 minutes ago, FrostDragoon said:

This is a failed proposition. DE reworked their most iconic frame in the game (Excal) at one point, removed WOF from Ember (the ability she was most known/used for), and reworked Wukong into a completely different play style. A janky a/f frame that just recently released to massive negative criticism isn't safe.

How is it a failed proposition? You are completely missing my point. 

Thematically her K-Drive is part of who she is. Just like thematically Protea has Temporal Anchor. Doesn't matter how drastic a rework, they would have to change the entire QUESTS to remove these abilities. Explain how they get around that bit. 

[FrostDragoon]

10 minutes ago, Tesseract7777 said:

How is it a failed proposition? You are completely missing my point. 

Thematically her K-Drive is part of who she is. Just like thematically Protea has Temporal Anchor. Doesn't matter how drastic a rework, they would have to change the entire QUESTS to remove these abilities. Explain how they get around that bit. 

Because thematically WOF was core to Ember and they completely removed it from her kit. There is precedent for this already. I didn't miss you're point. You're simply wrong.

Also, I already explained how to maintain the thematic elements in a different way.

[Tesseract7777]

18 minutes ago, FrostDragoon said:

Because thematically WOF was core to Ember and they completely removed it from her kit. There is precedent for this already. I didn't miss you're point. You're simply wrong.

 

But you most definitely still did. *whoosh*

Ember doesn't have a quest that is partly tied to her WoF ability. Btw, repeating "you're wrong" over and over, does nothing good for your credibility, you just sound silly. 

[FrostDragoon]

2 minutes ago, Tesseract7777 said:

But you most definitely still did. *whoosh*

Ember doesn't have a quest that is partly tied to her WoF ability. Btw, repeating "you're wrong" over and over, does nothing good for your credibility, you just sound silly. 

Go back and read what I said. I already addressed those "points." You ignoring what I said, however, reflects poorly on you, not me.

[Tesseract7777]

2 minutes ago, FrostDragoon said:

Go back and read what I said. I already addressed those "points." You ignoring what I said, however, reflects poorly on you, not me.

Quote for me where you explained how they can remove Temporal Anchor or Merulina without completely redoing their quests. 

I'll wait. 

[Tesseract7777]

55 minutes ago, FrostDragoon said:

In most circumstances I would 100% agree with you. However, what makes this different is that K-Drive in particular is wildly unpopular and disliked by players of the game, it doesn't work in most places in the game, and there isn't a way to for DE to reconcile this to make her acceptable without removing K-Drive from her. What's more likely to be an acceptable alternative is to divorce her kit from the K-Drive itself, but make K-Drives usable anywhere, then give her all kinds of K-Drive synergies in her kit rather than having an ability that explicitly is one. This would keep it in line with the quest, fulfill DE's goal of getting more people to use K-Drives in the first place, and satisfy the players that want to play her but can't stand K-Drives.

So, no. You're not right. Neither is DE (yet). This needs to be fixed.

If you are talking about this screed, it doesn't make any sense whatsoever. 

Merulina is a PART OF Yareli, ACCORDING TO THE QUEST. 

Period. End of story. She is the inspiration for K-Drives, again, according to the quest. 

Facts are stubborn things, aren't they? You can think whatever you want about what DE might do, but the fact they would have to change the questline if they removed Merulina is simply a fact, stop trying to argue basic facts, it's ridiculous.

[FrostDragoon]

4 minutes ago, Tesseract7777 said:

Quote for me where you explained how they can remove Temporal Anchor or Merulina without completely redoing their quests. 

I'll wait. 

I never said to remove Temporal Ancher. You did. And I already explained how to separate K-Drives while still keeping the quest about her. Besides that, lots of frames have no particular relevance to stuff in the quests.

1 hour ago, FrostDragoon said:

What's more likely to be an acceptable alternative is to divorce her kit from the K-Drive itself, but make K-Drives usable anywhere, then give her all kinds of K-Drive synergies in her kit rather than having an ability that explicitly is one. This would keep it in line with the quest, fulfill DE's goal of getting more people to use K-Drives in the first place, and satisfy the players that want to play her but can't stand K-Drives.

Read it. Again and again until it penetrates that thick ego of yours.

6 minutes ago, Tesseract7777 said:

Facts are stubborn things, aren't they?

They sure are. Can't imagine how much that must sting for you. My condolences.

[Turritopsis_Dohrnii]

I'm kind of surprised that doing tricks while her abilities were active didn't make them better somehow. Like giving them scaling or more fluid mobility since she really needs that in normal tile sets. 

 

Hopefully when her specter gets ability AI, we'll get to see how good her abilities actually scale. Maybe she's going to be a good specter since she'll scale at least? 

[FrostDragoon]

1 minute ago, Turritopsis_Dohrnii said:

I'm kind of surprised that doing tricks while her abilities were active didn't make them better somehow. Like giving them scaling or more fluid mobility since she really needs that in normal tile sets.

It's kind of pointless if you think about it. Most regular tile sets don't have enough room to do significant trick chains. Also, imagine how frustrating that would be to try to get your combo up and then suddenly interrupted by enemy rockets blasting you out of midair.