I feel Wukong has a worse rep than Limbo now

[Soul-scar]

Well I play Nova alot so if limbo goes in troll mode I teleport him 100 meters in a random direction, The wukong AI is better than many players I don't have an issue personally.

[George_PPS]

Whatever people like will be used a lot, and that's a good thing. From this perspective, both Limbo and Wukong are very successful designs. Same for many other powerful meta frames for specific missions. If we have a lot of frames that have no standing out abilities, they are simply abandoned. Why don't we talk about bring giving other frames more buffs to make them as good and as popular as these top frames?

A lot of weapons and frames have gone through such nerfs or "balances", and they are permanent damaged and most players just abandon these frames or weapons. I like to build and "collect" powerful frameS and weaponS in my loadouts. I'd really hate to see any of my multiple-formaed and Rivened builds gone bad just because it's too good or too powerful. 

[(NSW)apparentlyzedistooshort]

accidentall second comment not meant to be posted

[(NSW)apparentlyzedistooshort]

how dare you say tht about me baby immortal monke dont listen them monke you're immortal and good enough the way you are

anyways away from me acting like a overprotective parent wukong is simple he is made to not die he does not really help the team with like mega crowd control of this mega sphere nor can he make others op or immortal like himself he is just a warframe to easily cheese his way into not dying in sp  he has a simple concept like volt the warframe of electricity ash the warframe of sneky ness just like them he has a simple concept of wukong warframe of immortality even in the real mythology his thing is being immortal he has mastered the immortality breathing technique and has eaten the peaches of immortality tht gods themself eat (fun fact he was not supposed to eat them he was supposed to guard them) any way  he is a good warframe to easily survive  if you cant get a good build or afford one

[xombob89]

Honestly I hate excalibur umbras more than anything else simply because that frame has such a weirdly dedicated fanbase that they insist on bringing it everywhere, especially events and "special" mission types where you usually require a more specific team and set of abilities to be effective. Excaliburs abilities dont really provide anything more than wukongs. Its also probably my least played warframe, I find the abilities boring. 

[(NSW)apparentlyzedistooshort]

1 hour ago, xombob89 said:

Honestly I hate excalibur umbras more than anything else simply because that frame has such a weirdly dedicated fanbase that they insist on bringing it everywhere, especially events and "special" mission types where you usually require a more specific team and set of abilities to be effective. Excaliburs abilities dont really provide anything more than wukongs. Its also probably my least played warframe, I find the abilities boring. 

excalibur has the one of if not the biggest fanbase and he does not have a lot to bring to the table i think if modded good with his strenghts he can be good but he has no abilities tht can carry him like no healing and he also has no giant killing ability tht just make a giant explosion and just destroys everything and dont get me wrong his 4 th exaalted is like the strongest exalted but he cant really just destroy everything with it his reedeeming quality is mostly his 4th i even know a youtuber tht loves excal umbra but even he doesnt use it like at all nor does he have a good build for excal 

[xombob89]

20 hours ago, (NSW)apparentlyzedistooshort said:

excalibur has the one of if not the biggest fanbase and he does not have a lot to bring to the table i think if modded good with his strenghts he can be good but he has no abilities tht can carry him like no healing and he also has no giant killing ability tht just make a giant explosion and just destroys everything and dont get me wrong his 4 th exaalted is like the strongest exalted but he cant really just destroy everything with it his reedeeming quality is mostly his 4th i even know a youtuber tht loves excal umbra but even he doesnt use it like at all nor does he have a good build for excal 

Yeah, its not that Excalibur would be all terrible, I think all warframes can be modded to survive well enough and his exalted blade is pretty good. But there are certain missions where he isnt very useful compared to other warframes, like Eidolon hunts where I see them often too. Even high mastery players use him in such missions, and they probably think its fine since they can stay alive with him, but meanwhile they contribute very little to the hunt and put the success of it at risk.

But then again, you also see a lot of wukongs there. 

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

On 2021-08-08 at 3:44 PM, WH1735S0W said:

Limbo tends to have a very bad rep in Warframe for being obnoxious to play with. Nowadays I've been saying more negativity towards Wukong. While I personally do not have have a bias towards Wukong or Limbo. I can understand seeing the same Warframe over and over again can rub people the wrong way, and I have been seeing more Wukong than Limbo.

 

The common complaints I see are that the people playing him are toxic (which is subjective), being afk and his twin getting in the way. Though I've only met two toxic Wukongs and I feel that is a fault of the player not the Warframe. I would also not say they are AFK unless they are 100% not moving. As for his twin, it killed my synthesis target once but I often forget it is even there.

 

As for what I actually think of Wukong and his players. I mean he does... stuff. He shoots things and cloud walks, other than that I do not see anything too crazy. I almost never see him use his stick though. The only thing I do not like about Wukong is the sound of his cloud walker ability, which I find kind of annoying. Yet I understand this is out of the player's control. I can't just ask them to stop moving fast since that is silly.

 

How do you feel about this?

I dont think anything about him is any bit "extra" than anything else. Even the most cheeseball AOE weapons arent that different from any other frame using them or kill frames like mesa/saryn/volt/equinox/gara/etc. 

Hes tanky but not the only tank frame.

 

His 4 sucks so i got rid of it. 

 

Max range limbos should be a bannable offense. Period. 

[Sahansral]

Wukong  is just a symptom not the cause (power creep, suppport and cc obsolet, damage > all).

Also at this point, who really cares about reputation when we lost the coop-aspect of the game years ago?
 

[GREF_TM]

Wukong completes missions fast (in other words, doesn't waste your time) and doesn't die if you have even a slightest clue on what you should do with him. Can't see a single reason to hate on him, as, unlike limbo, he doesn't have any non-universal mechanics to annoy people or slow down missions.

On 2021-08-09 at 6:44 AM, WH1735S0W said:

I almost never see him use his stick though

Because all exalted weapons aside from desert wind were nerfed in melee 2.9, and wukong's staff got the biggest nerf, by far. Literally everything good about it was patched out. No wonder you don't see it.

On 2021-10-26 at 6:15 PM, xombob89 said:

Yeah, its not that Excalibur would be all terrible

He's quite terrible. Not i a way that you can't do missions with him - this game is not exactly challenging and you can do steel path missions even with limbo without using abilities, He's bad because 3 out of 4 of his abilities are kinda arse when you start to actually evaluating them against other frames' abilities, and his only good ability can be subsumed to a better frame (like, for example, aforementioned wukong) and used on said frame with better results.

He and valkyr definitely need rework, about as much as frost does
 

[Arcsyrine]

Lol, just wait until people find out you can subsume Roar onto Wukong and have it buff his clone even more.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

On 2021-10-30 at 7:58 AM, GREF_TM said:

Wukong completes missions fast (in other words, doesn't waste your time) and doesn't die if you have even a slightest clue on what you should do with him. Can't see a single reason to hate on him, as, unlike limbo, he doesn't have any non-universal mechanics to annoy people or slow down missions.

Because all exalted weapons aside from desert wind were nerfed in melee 2.9, and wukong's staff got the biggest nerf, by far. Literally everything good about it was patched out. No wonder you don't see it.

He's quite terrible. Not i a way that you can't do missions with him - this game is not exactly challenging and you can do steel path missions even with limbo without using abilities, He's bad because 3 out of 4 of his abilities are kinda arse when you start to actually evaluating them against other frames' abilities, and his only good ability can be subsumed to a better frame (like, for example, aforementioned wukong) and used on said frame with better results.

He and valkyr definitely need rework, about as much as frost does
 

The people doing level cap disruption with Excal say otherwise. 

8 times out of 10 it's usually the player that doesn't know how to use a frame. That or they don't realize the frame they're using isnt for their playstyle.

[GREF_TM]

On 2021-11-04 at 9:34 AM, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

The people doing level cap disruption with Excal say otherwise. 

If you really going to argue that a frame with 3 out of 4 abilities being bad is somehow not a bad frame and doesn't need a rework, present at least some arguments supporting such claims. Are you here for a discussion, or you're just "ha-ha you're wrong bye-bye" 'ing me?

And if by "excal doing level cap disruption" you mean blind + slash builds (it's definitely not an EB build because exalted blade realistically won't do jackS#&$ against level cap when compared to actually good melees), then newsflash, you can infuse a full power blind on any different frame with other 3 abilities not being dog turd and have a better build overall. Guess what - i can do pretty much any content with him too. But does this justify him having bad abilities in the game about having fun with abilities? Like hell it does. It's like saying that nekros' kit as a whole is not underwhelming because he has that one ability that is mandatory for most farms.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

3 hours ago, GREF_TM said:

If you really going to argue that a frame with 3 out of 4 abilities being bad is somehow not a bad frame and doesn't need a rework, present at least some arguments supporting such claims. Are you here for a discussion, or you're just "ha-ha you're wrong bye-bye" 'ing me?

And if by "excal doing level cap disruption" you mean blind + slash builds (it's definitely not an EB build because exalted blade realistically won't do jackS#&$ against level cap when compared to actually good melees), then newsflash, you can infuse a full power blind on any different frame with other 3 abilities not being dog turd and have a better build overall. Guess what - i can do pretty much any content with him too. But does this justify him having bad abilities in the game about having fun with abilities? Like hell it does. It's like saying that nekros' kit as a whole is not underwhelming because he has that one ability that is mandatory for most farms.

Cool story:

But min maxing efficiency is all in your head, sorry. By your logic only saryn, revenant, and trinity should be in the game because that's all you need to do anything.

You can do a simple youtube search and see 3 different ways people use excal.

A player's limited imagination doesn't equal a frame being bad. 

A player's propensity to only min max and never have any fun with the game doesn't equal a bad frame.

A player's tendency to use a path of least resistance meta loadout doesn't equal a bad frame.

DE isnt going to rework every frame because some min maxer discovered every single ability in fact, doesn't nuke, buff, or add multiplicative buffs.

 

[GREF_TM]

2 hours ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

You can do a simple youtube search and see 3 different ways people use excal.

And all of them a wack and have far better alternatives. Blind that can be done better than any other frame, exalted that is objectively weaker than using a good normal melee weapon, and probably a variation of blind with less range but more power + furious javelin for melee damage, that, again, can be replicated by better frames. That's your answer?

2 hours ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

A player's limited imagination doesn't equal a frame being bad. 

But a frame having 3 out of 4 abilities underwhelming sure does.

2 hours ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

A player's propensity to only min max and never have any fun with the game doesn't equal a bad frame

There's a big difference between wanting to minmax and wanting abilities that are good and do something actually meaningful, instead of collapsing like a house of cards when you start to evaluate them against similar abilities of other frames and see how inferior they truly are. I'm not a minmaxer. I use non-meta stuff. I still want my most played frame's abilities to not suck arse though.

 

All that "blah-blah-blah meta slave", yet you haven't delivered a single argument on why slash dash, javelin and exalted blade are not bad abilities and do not require buffs/reworks.

 

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

2 minutes ago, GREF_TM said:

And all of them a wack and have far better alternatives. Blind that can be done better than any other frame, exalted that is objectively weaker than using a good normal melee weapon, and probably a variation of blind with less range but more power + furious javelin for melee damage, that, again, can be replicated by better frames. That's your answer?

But a frame having 3 out of 4 abilities underwhelming sure does.

There's a big difference between wanting to minmax and wanting abilities that are good and do something actually meaningful, instead of collapsing like a house of cards when you start to evaluate them against similar abilities of other frames and see how inferior they truly are. I'm not a minmaxer. I use non-meta stuff. I still want my most played frame's abilities to not suck arse though.

 

All that "blah-blah-blah meta slave", yet you haven't delivered a single argument on why slash dash, javelin and exalted blade are not bad abilities and do not require buffs/reworks.

 

What makes an ability good is a player preference. For example, some people can't aim or mod, so call single target trash.

If you don't like meatloaf, someone can't convince you to like it. This is called subjectivity. This means you'll have to find something else to eat or learn to cook meatloaf better.

Once again: the wiki has a "tips and tricks" section for every ability if you need help opening your mind.

If you feel in your own mind that excal only has 1 good ability or you're unable to figure out how to use them.....you have 46 other frames.

And if DE is gonna rework excal, you're gonna have to wait anyways. Goodluck 

[GREF_TM]

  

9 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

For example, some people can't aim or mod, so call single target trash.

Single target is objectively inferior to splash though, and not amount of mods nor aim can change that (although it's surprising an a bit funny to see a PSN player, of all people, talking about good aim). If you know anything about this game, you have to know this. It doesn't mean you shouldn't use single target weapons if you feel like it, but neither you should argue that they are not weaker.

And yet again you're avoiding presenting actual arguments on why his 1, 3 and 4 are not bad compared to the competition. Seems like all you can really do is to call people who challenge your vision of the game names without engaging in an actual discussion. "Everything is good and balanced, you just don't know how to use/build stuff". Yeah whatever.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

14 minutes ago, GREF_TM said:

  

Single target is objectively inferior to splash though, and not amount of mods nor aim can change that (although it's surprising an a bit funny to see a PSN player, of all people, talking about good aim). If you know anything about this game, you have to know this. It doesn't mean you shouldn't use single target weapons if you feel like it, but neither you should argue that they are not weaker.

And yet again you're avoiding presenting actual arguments on why his 1, 3 and 4 are not bad compared to the competition. Seems like all you can really do is to call people who challenge your vision of the game names without engaging in an actual discussion. "Everything is good and balanced, you just don't know how to use/build stuff". Yeah whatever.

Currently there are only 2 game modes where killing fast actually mattters: eso and survival. And we still bring our Kuva Karaks and do just fine. Once again: your preference doesn't matter to anyone except you.

Once again, you're playing a PVE game. I'm fighting the corpus, grineer etc. 

If you're fighting other frames and players that's in your head and your free to do so, but no one else has to care or subscribe to your belief.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

20 minutes ago, GREF_TM said:

  

Single target is objectively inferior to splash though, and not amount of mods nor aim can change that (although it's surprising an a bit funny to see a PSN player, of all people, talking about good aim). If you know anything about this game, you have to know this. It doesn't mean you shouldn't use single target weapons if you feel like it, but neither you should argue that they are not weaker.

And yet again you're avoiding presenting actual arguments on why his 1, 3 and 4 are not bad compared to the competition. Seems like all you can really do is to call people who challenge your vision of the game names without engaging in an actual discussion. "Everything is good and balanced, you just don't know how to use/build stuff". Yeah whatever.

Also, it's 2021 and it's entirely possible for people to own a PC and and console. Really old mindset, assuming people only use one thing. 

[GREF_TM]

12 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

your preference doesn't matter to anyone except you

Neither are yours, yet you still go out of your way to call people who think different "they can't aim or mod".  Sounds like a double standard.

14 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

you're playing a PVE game

Which justifies having a crappy balance between frames how, exactly? Or you just think it's ok for everything to be crap in pve games?

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

5 minutes ago, GREF_TM said:

Neither are yours, yet you still go out of your way to call people who think different "they can't aim or mod".  Sounds like a double standard.

Which justifies having a crappy balance between frames how, exactly? Or you just think it's ok for everything to be crap in pve games?

Balance doesn't mean make everything do more damage and aoe. It's a buzzword people use to continue to prop up misinformation. 

Trinity will never be Saryn. They have different uses.

You can scream to the high heavens all you want. I'll bet you in a year or 3....you still won't see all frames with abilities that are acceptable to you as an individual.

[GREF_TM]

3 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Balance doesn't mean make everything do more damage and aoe.

I never said it does.

4 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Trinity will never be Saryn.

I never said it should be.

 

You sure you talking to me? Or maybe you're just talking to yourself? Because that definitely would explain everything.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

1 minute ago, GREF_TM said:

I never said it does.

I never said it should be.

 

You sure you talking to me? Or maybe you're just talking to yourself? Because that definitely would explain everything.

The search bar is on the top right. Someone else tried to pull the "excal weak pls fix" thread recently too. You'd be surprised at most of the answers saying he's fine and a great well rounded frame. A tweak could be made here and there. But he doesn't need a full rework.

[GREF_TM]

3 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

You'd be surprised at most of the answers saying he's fine and a great well rounded frame

From people who either don't play him, or don't know/understand what makes a frame good. "Excal kills bad guys with one ability and an universal melee, excal good". Except any frame can do exactly that without having three ability slots that are effectively blank. I would've explained in detail the why of it - the cons of all his abilities, but you seem to dodge the topic like it's lava, so yeah, tough s**t, you'll have to figure it out yourself.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

32 minutes ago, GREF_TM said:

From people who either don't play him, or don't know/understand what makes a frame good. "Excal kills bad guys with one ability and an universal melee, excal good". Except any frame can do exactly that without having three ability slots that are effectively blank. I would've explained in detail the why of it - the cons of all his abilities, but you seem to dodge the topic like it's lava, so yeah, tough s**t, you'll have to figure it out yourself.

It's not my game. Take it up with DE. If you actually cared you'd be in feedback presenting a cogent, well thought out argument.