Make conclave exclusive items available from other sources

[----Legacy----]

2 minutes ago, rachjumper said:

archwing and kdrive racing would unironically be better then the current conclave

That's entirely subjective and, unlike warframes, players interested in these modes wouldn't be able to do it until they unlock the gear for these (Archwings and K-drives)

4 minutes ago, rachjumper said:

there are no "changes" that can be made to conclave to improve it

There are, there's plenty of threads explaining what could be done to improve it in several areas. A narrow minded hivemind community saying otherwise just because they enjoy content that can be beaten by mindlessly mashing 1234EEEEE1234EEEE... while watching movies is an entirely different thing.

6 minutes ago, rachjumper said:

the core of conclave is the problem

Not sure if you had noticed, but conclave's core is literally the same core of warframe gameplay. Both PvE and PvP share the same mechanics and the main difference between them is balance.

7 minutes ago, rachjumper said:

only way to make conclave good is to scrap what is there and start over

Once again, that's subjective. As you can see, there is a community of players who already like warframe vs warframe combat; If you disagree, that's fine unless you're legit going out of your way to remove our fun in order to add a bad mode just because you and a bunch of self entitled players want access to a few useless cosmetics that you don't need anyways.

[VoidArkhangel]

hace 8 minutos, Sevek7 dijo:

I think it depends on what you mean by "change." As far as I can tell, Conclave players are generally supportive of incremental changes to improve the game-mode. But if "change" means to get rid of it entirely and replace it with something completely different like Archwing Racing, then that's a different story. That doesn't mean that something completely different shouldn't be done, but in that case the old version should still be kept for those who enjoy it - especially since it requires only a negligible amount of maintenance.

I mean, a "hard reset" isnt always as bad as most would like to think and (imo) is the best option on the "How to improve conclave" topic, but anyways by "change" I mean a sustantial rework of some sort that could go from tweaking a feature to a completely new conclave.

As for those who enjoy how the conclave is right now, I know that is hard to let something you like slip out of your fingers but its part of making it better, would you sacrifice all the posibilities of improvement for a thing that a lot of people could enjoy along you just because you and some friends are comfortable with what it is right now? If DE decided to remake the conclave they could keep the current one but I think that would make the fracture between regular players and the current Conclave fans even bigger.

[Loxyen]

43 minutes ago, VoidArkhangel said:

If you say so... so far I've only seen conclave players who want to protect it but dont want it to change.

Sure, everything should change only for the better but I've seen some good ideas that got neglected just because these players dont want to change anyhting from the conclave we have right now (apart from bugs and exploits ofc) even if they dont play it anymore.

These protective/maintaining responses come from demands that wouldn't make much sense, alter the gameplay completely, or the plain "just remove/replace it" thing.

E.g. on the pvx matter there are lots of requests that are asking to remove/replace Conclave with another pve mode that merely has a ranking list or similar as the only "pvp" element to it. We already have events and ranking lists for pve. Can't say I'd be against a pvx mode, but it should be implemented properly and I'd miss the pure pvp, especially when there is no reason to remove/replace it.

A big concern about pvx and bots is how the AI acts and how easily one can exploit it aswell.

Wouldn't say that every Conclave player is against a pvx mode either. Beside its flaws the Dark Sector Solar Rail wars were quite good and many liked the concept.

One even took the time and compiled a solid pvx mode suggestion that took into account how the game works. (He proposed to include uni meds to Conclave that way aswell)

 

 

Another often mentioned issue would be the lack of skill based matchmaking (beside whatever Recruit Conditioning is) and the implementation of a stamina bar to nerf the movement thats already tied to ehp balance.

Especially now with Shield Gating I don't see that another nerf on mobility would benefit the new player experience, because the vets are already used to shooting heads at the current pace. That'll turn out the opposite way they intended. Honestly if DE would rework the match up system and introduced some server browser with e.g. the option to implement comments to your lobby (like veteran lobby, new player lobby etc.) or some sort of skill grading batch depending on the overall Conclave playtime of the players in there it'll already help with the match making and the not finding lobbies issue. Maybe add a filter to that aswell.

 

Many of them are bummed out due to the current state it is in from the 4 years of neglect, but would jump in again once the fixes are done I guess.

[Sevek7]

1 minute ago, VoidArkhangel said:

I mean, a "hard reset" isnt always as bad as most would like to think and (imo) is the best option on the "How to improve conclave" topic, but anyways by "change" I mean a sustantial rework of some sort that could go from tweaking a feature to a completely new conclave.

I'm not totally opposed and would entertain a "hard reset" as long as players are still able to play as Warframes. I would also try the Grineer versus Corpus style mode people are often talking about. I do agree that a substantial rework is probably necessary if Conclave is to be enjoyable for the majority of the current Warframe community, and would certainly be open to changes that lower the skill ceiling and raise the skill floor substantially - I do think this is a necessary part. That being said, if they scrapped the current Conclave and turned it into a racing mode I would probably lose interest quite fast (but I would try it!). 

7 minutes ago, VoidArkhangel said:

As for those who enjoy how the conclave is right now, I know that is hard to let something you like slip out of your fingers but its part of making it better, would you sacrifice all the posibilities of improvement for a thing that a lot of people could enjoy along you just because you and some friends are comfortable with what it is right now? If DE decided to remake the conclave they could keep the current one but I think that would make the fracture between regular players and the current Conclave fans even bigger.

For me personally, I think the current Conclave has huge potential but is extremely flawed due to design choices that make it way too easy for experienced players to dominate new players with basically zero risk. I'm definitely supportive of ways to seriously shrink the skill gap. Conclave is most fun when playing an even match, and so I see this kind of change as "slipping towards my fingers." 

But yeah, if they scrapped it and replaced it with something completely different... I would give it a go and try to have an open mind. However I grew up on arena shooters and think a racing game won't quite scratch the same itch that Conclave currently does for me.

 

[vasRayya]

7 minutes ago, ----Legacy---- said:

There are, there's plenty of threads explaining what could be done to improve it in several areas. A narrow minded hivemind community saying otherwise just because they enjoy content that can be beaten by mindlessly mashing 1234EEEEE1234EEEE... while watching movies is an entirely different thing.

warframe is a power fantasy shlooter
if you're looking for a challenge, you're playing the wrong game
go try titanfall 2 bud

7 minutes ago, ----Legacy---- said:

Not sure if you had noticed, but conclave's core is literally the same core of warframe gameplay. Both PvE and PvP share the same mechanics and the main difference between them is balance.

the core of warframe - those mechanics they share -  were built for pve
the pvp was added as an afterthought to try and bring in more players
and it failed, hence why they abandoned it

12 minutes ago, ----Legacy---- said:

Once again, that's subjective. As you can see, there is a community of players who already like warframe vs warframe combat

if there was actually a community then it wouldn't take +30 minutes to find a match during peak weekend hours

14 minutes ago, ----Legacy---- said:

; If you disagree, that's fine unless you're legit going out of your way to remove our fun in order to add a bad mode just because you and a bunch of self entitled players want access to a few useless cosmetics that you don't need anyways

>add a bad mode
>self entitled players
>useless cosmetics that you don't need anyways

conclave is literally a bad mode
if it was a good mode, more then 10 people would play it
the people here who are self entitled are the conclave players who refuse to allow their """useless""" cosmetics to be added to the steel path pool because "I earned it the hard way, and you should too! just play conclave!", even though most people can't even get a match going

[Loxyen]

14 minutes ago, VoidArkhangel said:

I mean, a "hard reset" isnt always as bad as most would like to think and (imo) is the best option on the "How to improve conclave" topic, but anyways by "change" I mean a sustantial rework of some sort that could go from tweaking a feature to a completely new conclave.

As for those who enjoy how the conclave is right now, I know that is hard to let something you like slip out of your fingers but its part of making it better, would you sacrifice all the posibilities of improvement for a thing that a lot of people could enjoy along you just because you and some friends are comfortable with what it is right now? If DE decided to remake the conclave they could keep the current one but I think that would make the fracture between regular players and the current Conclave fans even bigger.

We already had that with the current version. OG Conclave were nodes on the planets where you could play with your pve loadouts. The only balance restriction was a Conclave score limit where everything you used had its own rating.

Later DE scrapped that concept, detached it from pve (more or less.. still the same code but with multipliers) and rebuilt and rebalanced it. I can tell you that Conclave had its best balance state right before poe launched and the devs decided to stop the development. It wasn't dead either. You could literally play days through and always find matches.

I doubt that most of the pvp players are against adding new things to the syndicate pool as long as they're somewhat related to pvp/pvx and reasonably inclosed. Its just that the demands very often snap from add it to replace/remove with no valid reasoning behind.

[Loxyen]

17 minutes ago, rachjumper said:

warframe is a power fantasy shlooter
if you're looking for a challenge, you're playing the wrong game
go try titanfall 2 bud

the core of warframe - those mechanics they share -  were built for pve
the pvp was added as an afterthought to try and bring in more players
and it failed, hence why they abandoned it

if there was actually a community then it wouldn't take +30 minutes to find a match during peak weekend hours

>add a bad mode
>self entitled players
>useless cosmetics that you don't need anyways

conclave is literally a bad mode
if it was a good mode, more then 10 people would play it
the people here who are self entitled are the conclave players who refuse to allow their """useless""" cosmetics to be added to the steel path pool because "I earned it the hard way, and you should too! just play conclave!", even though most people can't even get a match going

Why should someone who's enjoying a game go to another? You know thats a customer less for the devs?

You know that Conclave existed as one of the oldest game modes way before the movement rework? And that DE seperated the Conclave balance from pve balance so they could e.g. tie ehp to mobility as balance factors?

The poor state Conclave is in atm is a reflection from the 4 years of dev neglect and bugs and exploits bleeding over from some reworks. Not to mention the unfitting matchmaking system. 6 regions, ping limit, matching bugs and rc which doubles that again... Bug and exploit fixes and a server browser or such would path the way to fix that.

Before poe you literally could play around the clock if you wanted.

 

How do you make up that number?

 

Look... if you reeeeeaaaally want the mods and skins and ignore that stuff to get matches:

 

You can still gather ppl in recruit chat, forums, your friend list or where ever to get matches done.

Even some of the content creators play it every now and then.

[traybong111]

10 minutes ago, rachjumper said:

warframe is a power fantasy shlooter
if you're looking for a challenge, you're playing the wrong game
go try titanfall 2 bud

the core of warframe - those mechanics they share -  were built for pve
the pvp was added as an afterthought to try and bring in more players
and it failed, hence why they abandoned it

if there was actually a community then it wouldn't take +30 minutes to find a match during peak weekend hours

>add a bad mode
>self entitled players
>useless cosmetics that you don't need anyways

conclave is literally a bad mode
if it was a good mode, more then 10 people would play it
the people here who are self entitled are the conclave players who refuse to allow their """useless""" cosmetics to be added to the steel path pool because "I earned it the hard way, and you should too! just play conclave!", even though most people can't even get a match going

Do you guys have any idea how hard you tell on yourselves with all these "this game should never be anything but a power fantasy and that's why it shouldn't have PvP" screeds. Like are you capable of reading what you wrote, taking a step back from MUH POWER FANTASY and thinking how it comes across to people who've played any other shooter in the past 20 years. 

Again. Self-awareness. I weep for y'all, I truly do. 

[VoidArkhangel]

hace 16 minutos, Loxyen dijo:

E.g. on the pvx matter there are lots of requests that are asking to remove/replace Conclave with another pve mode that merely has a ranking list or similar as the only "pvp" element to it. We already have events and ranking lists for pve. Can't say I'd be against a pvx mode, but it should be implemented properly and I'd miss the pure pvp, especially when there is no reason to remove/replace it.

I wasnt reffering to that kind of ideas since I understand that changing a PvP mode for a PvE would make no sense at all, cant say I wouldnt like it but I understand those who are against.

hace 13 minutos, Sevek7 dijo:

For me personally, I think the current Conclave has huge potential but is extremely flawed due to design choices that make it way too easy for experienced players to dominate new players with basically zero risk. I'm definitely supportive of ways to seriously shrink the skill gap. Conclave is most fun when playing an even match, and so I see this kind of change as "slipping towards my fingers." 

But yeah, if they scrapped it and replaced it with something completely different... I would give it a go and try to have an open mind. However I grew up on arena shooters and think a racing game won't quite scratch the same itch that Conclave currently does for me.

I personally dont think it has the same potential as something like Grineer vs Corpus or such and I also think that the skill gap is a huge problem right now and thats why I think the best option would be an entire remake.

Also nothing important but I grew with FPS, arena shooters and racing games since other games such as Street Fighter or sport games were too boring for me but when I tried Lunaro I liked it so who knows, maybe DE can make you like something that you currently dont.

hace 10 minutos, Loxyen dijo:

We already had that with the current version. OG Conclave were nodes on the planets where you could play with your pve loadouts. The only balance restriction was a Conclave score limit where everything you used had its own rating.

Later DE scrapped that concept, detached it from pve (more or less.. still the same code but with multipliers) and rebuilt and rebalanced it. I can tell you that Conclave had its best balance state right before poe launched and the devs decided to stop the development. It wasn't dead either. You could literally play days through and always find matches.

Indeed, I remember the clan wars and the first time they introduced the Conclave we know today where you could still use the PvE mods lmao. Didnt played a lot back then but I would've loved to *memories from Tennocon 2017*

 

[-Degu]

24 minutes ago, rachjumper said:

conclave is literally a bad mode

Right now? Partially. Bugs are running rampant. But the thing is, the core mechanics are extremely good. Conclave could be at the tippy top of the high skill cap movement shooters, and that's not just me who says that. Both shroud and summit2g said that conclave would be AMAZING, if it had the support and upkeep it requires. We had pro/semipro players coming over from other movement based shooters saying that conclave could be amazing. Key word, could. People like you keep it down for no reason, enjoy your PvE content, I will enjoy my PvP content. 

Besides, I assume you say that without experiencing conclave properly and seeing all it has to offer. Disliking something is fine, but slamming it blindly and trying to burn it down without even understanding what it's all about? Bad. 

Live let live my man. 

[vasRayya]

13 minutes ago, Loxyen said:

Why should someone who's enjoying a game go to another? You know thats a customer less for the devs?

oh man, warframe is going to get cancelled! 10 conclave players will stop playing! oh no!

14 minutes ago, Loxyen said:

You know that Conclave existed as one of the oldest game modes way before the movement rework? And that DE seperated the Conclave balance from pve balance so they could e.g. tie ehp to mobility as balance factors?

been here since closed beta bro, I remember the old dark sectors
unbalanced as hell but still better then current conclave

15 minutes ago, Loxyen said:

Before poe you literally could play around the clock if you wanted.

poe was four years ago.
I also shouldn't need a whole video and guide just to be able to get a pvp match, lmao

[Incongruous]

It's true though. You need a full-on guide on how to even get matched with another living human being. That's absolutely hilarious.

How do you expect anyone to take Conclave seriously and with any dose of respect?

Stop fanatically guarding a corpse and let DE snip it, so they can come up with a way of fixing it in the future and making it into something others actually want to participate in.

[vasRayya]

39 minutes ago, Loxyen said:

Did you just use a new alt account to rephrase the same line twice? Bruh...

 

Inb4 his next alt account starts posting.

the sheer amount of cope to assume I made an alt account just to double reply to you

[Loxyen]

5 minutes ago, rachjumper said:

the sheer amount of cope to assume a made an alt account just to double reply to you

cope? Multi accounting to waste other ppls time and derail threads with troll posting is a thing on this forum. I bet you know what I'm talking about.

[GeeseGoosey]

8 hours ago, SpicyDinosaur said:

Why do people hate Conclave so much? 

 

God forbid someone has something you don't (because you yourself choose not to pursue it.) Stuff that doesn't even have any sort of stat benefit or anything similar.

 

Want the Conclave stuff? (which honestly isn't really all that great) Play Conclave!

Personally i dont actually mind conclave, and id rather it be there than it not, the problem is that since it's had no attention for years no one plays so a bunch of cool items aren't available to most players

[GeeseGoosey]

listen i didn't mean to bring the conclave players back from the grave i just want my damn sybaris skin and there's no way to get it other than sitting staring at the conclave match making screen for 15 hours

[PublikDomain]

50 minutes ago, bisousbisous said:

Kinda sad you need an entire video to explain how to play Conclave with more than 2 people

Yeah, and it's only like that because every time someone dares suggest that the mode be improved non-Conclave players lose their collective minds and rage until the thread gets locked.

[GeeseGoosey]

8 hours ago, SpicyDinosaur said:

Why do people hate Conclave so much? 

 

God forbid someone has something you don't (because you yourself choose not to pursue it.) Stuff that doesn't even have any sort of stat benefit or anything similar.

 

Want the Conclave stuff? (which honestly isn't really all that great) Play Conclave!

See the thing is, I would play conclave if it was possible to match with a single person, there's no incentive for anyone who's not interested in the cosmetics so no one plays. I think that the best solution is to maybe cycle some of the items into nightwave.

[GeeseGoosey]

6 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

Yeah, and it's only like that because every time someone dares suggest that the mode be improved non-Conclave players lose their collective minds and rage until the thread gets locked.

I wish that conclave would get improved, it's not an awful gamemode, it just isn't terribly fun compared to the rest of the game. Honestly i didn't even think that this was such a hotly debated topic topic, i just want my sybaris skin and i think players should have access to the rewards without having to suffer through the matchmaking

[Jackdarsan]

PVP in a game that is designed to be PVE is a little funny. I keep posting about adding PVE modes to conclave to address the deadness but then all the conclave fanatics pop out and say no. 

PVE mode that lets you gain some rep is better than nothing and would rather grind that to get the conclave items then join dedicated discords and beg clan/mates to join me just to cap daily rep. 

Also start to just talk about conclave randomly in any stream i join and say 'Thanks DE for the conclave rework or PVE conclave, that is great, when is that coming out' just to stir the pot :p 

[PublikDomain]

1 minute ago, GeeseGoosey said:

I wish that conclave would get improved, it's not an awful gamemode, it just isn't terribly fun compared to the rest of the game. Honestly i didn't even think that this was such a hotly debated topic topic, i just want my sybaris skin and i think players should have access to the rewards without having to suffer through the matchmaking

That's why I want to see bots added. Then players could always start a game without any hoops to jump through, and if players knew they could play the mode at any time and get the cool cosmetics then it'd at least get them into the door to try it. You only need a few people willing to try out of the 30-40k online at any given time to get real games going. And we've already got bots in the Index, with support for human players dropping in and out and everything, so all the work has already been done. But of course, can't suggest that either or people (didn't mean you) REEEE and lose their minds.

[GeeseGoosey]

2 minutes ago, Jackdarsan said:

PVP in a game that is designed to be PVE is a little funny. I keep posting about adding PVE modes to conclave to address the deadness but then all the conclave fanatics pop out and say no. 

PVE mode that lets you gain some rep is better than nothing and would rather grind that to get the conclave items then join dedicated discords and beg clan/mates to join me just to cap daily rep. 

Also start to just talk about conclave randomly in any stream i join and say 'Thanks DE for the conclave rework or PVE conclave, that is great, when is that coming out' just to stir the pot :p 

Yeah I'm guessing that's similar to the developers sentiment on conclave, warframe just isn't a pvp game so they haven't focused on the pvp mode. which is why i would love to see the rewards moved to a pve mode OR at least let you play conclave against AI instead of waiting for matchmaking

[GeeseGoosey]

1 minute ago, PublikDomain said:

That's why I want to see bots added. Then players could always start a game without any hoops to jump through, and if players knew they could play the mode at any time and get the cool cosmetics then it'd at least get them into the door to try it. You only need a few people willing to try out of the 30-40k online at any given time to get real games going. And we've already got bots in the Index, with support for human players dropping in and out and everything, so all the work has already been done. But of course, can't suggest that either or people (didn't mean you) REEEE and lose their minds.

I completely agree! I think that allowing players to start games without going through the godawful matchmaking and get the feel of it would if nothing else allow people to get the rewards, and at best it could spark new interest in conclave

[Jackdarsan]

1 minute ago, GeeseGoosey said:

Yeah I'm guessing that's similar to the developers sentiment on conclave, warframe just isn't a pvp game so they haven't focused on the pvp mode. which is why i would love to see the rewards moved to a pve mode OR at least let you play conclave against AI instead of waiting for matchmaking

100% with you on that, i would love a practice/PVE mode for all the conclave games that at lest allow you understand the mode, just gives a little rep. At lest I would be able to finally play conclave lol. 

[Loxyen]

13 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

And we've already got bots in the Index

Yea and thats what they do...

Most Conclave players aren't fundamentally against the bot idea, but how'd you code them to be better than that and how would you compose their difficulty so everyone is engaged? The reason of them arguing against it is because nobody came up with answeres to that.