What if Warframe removed/reduced all Craft times in the Foundry?

[(PSN)Tomplexthis]

Things like Warframe parts going from 12 hours to either instant or 1 minute, full warframe from 72 hours to maybe instant or less that 12 hours.

Guns crafting instantly like Kuva/Sisters of parvos ones, or up to 1 hour.

Forma being made in 1 hour, or 1 minute

 

My friends biggest issue, or like all of them, say they just hate the "time gates" and that they feel arbitrary

like the reason any of those 72 hour, 24 hour, 23 12 8 6 hour wait times exist is to milk Platinum in the game. 

which is something better, and only spent, on Fashion and Slots. the whole "rush" system is a bit of an overpriced gimmicky mess.

the 25P to rush a 1 minute craft thing, 50p to rush anything, sort of thing. just seems maddening.

 

i myself, never really cared, but him and all his friends kind of really hate the entire foundry craft times thing.

just wondering about the removal of it entirely, and what impact it would have towards the platinum side of things, as iam sure new players waste plat on rushing.

but most veterans can easily get used to waiting a bit to make stuff. newer players, usually do not, or will not and just quit before they even get into the game.

the video i saw about how many many people stop playing the game before the 2 hour mark, is interesting. 

what is really obnoxious, is the new players starting out, have to wait 24 hours, 12 hours, 72 hours, just as much to get anything done from the beginning

and the only things that bypass that, is to outright buy warframes/weapons, or kuva weapons, or kitguns 1 hour.

 

-what are the honest thoughts on this? i've seen it mentioned in a ton of Devstreams. 

 

Example of why they despise the concept.

imagine playing a NEW borderlands game, and you pick up Blueprints for guns, rather than guns in the game as you play.

All loot you find is just a blueprint, and you had to craft it in the sanctuary, waiting 12-72 hours per RNG weapon?

doesnt sound good. but its this idea that they all hate. 

[LillyRaccune]

Another day, another thread like this.

I'll put on the popcorn.

EDIT: It's nothing against your topic, but this has been hashed out a few many times on the forums. I'd love to have "1 minute formas", but it just isn't a realistic wish from my perspective.

[BuncOfSoul]

As a relatively new players (less than 2 weeks), I agree, the waiting time was a huge turn off at start, especially considering how few things I could do at that point (not even mentioning the endless farm for some mats). Altho maybe not instant? But quite shorter than their current. Also, properly downscaling plat price to rush it?

[Tyreaus]

6 minutes ago, (PSN)Tomplexthis said:

just wondering about the removal of it entirely, and what impact it would have towards the platinum side of things, as iam sure new players waste plat on rushing.

One of the big issues with dumping craft times across the board would be Forma sales. The craft time and constant use of Forma probably makes it the most Plat'd thing. I doubt DE would go for that.

As for the frustration of your friends, maybe it's worth considering a scaling craft timer? Lower MR weapons may have near-instant craft times, while higher MRs have longer ones. That'd help alleviate the issue of patience for newer players, weaning them into crafting wait times, without doing away with the plat sink altogether, and could allow for keeping Forma craft times where that's at.

That and probably just a general touch-up of craft times. It has been suggested to be able to queue crafts for things like dragon keys or energy pads with the crafting time being combined. That'd probably be a more effective plat sink, what with skipping one minute not really being worth it to just about anyone (but skipping even a half hour being a different story).

[(PSN)Tomplexthis]

9 minutes ago, BuncOfSoul said:

As a relatively new players (less than 2 weeks), I agree, the waiting time was a huge turn off at start, especially considering how few things I could do at that point (not even mentioning the endless farm for some mats). Altho maybe not instant? But quite shorter than their current. Also, properly downscaling plat price to rush it?

rush prices are pretty expensive yes

14 minutes ago, LillyRaccune said:

Another day, another thread like this.

I'll put on the popcorn.

EDIT: It's nothing against your topic, but this has been hashed out a few many times on the forums. I'd love to have "1 minute formas", but it just isn't a realistic wish from my perspective.

kinda yeah. this post wasnt made from/for me as much as a concept from the other 9 people i play with who hate this game.

but mostly for the grind/wait times on building.

[(PSN)Tomplexthis]

8 minutes ago, Tyreaus said:

One of the big issues with dumping craft times across the board would be Forma sales. The craft time and constant use of Forma probably makes it the most Plat'd thing. I doubt DE would go for that.

 

i think so too, Forma is THE most overused thing in the entire game, and probably my own most plat bought item.

way too much of warframe revolves around Forma as a whole

[PublikDomain]

Warframe is a F2P. DE makes the money they use to continue development on the game by relying on conversions. A conversion is when a free user converts into a paying customer. Conversions are driven by putting pressure on pain points. A pain point is some negative thing or experience that the user might want to avoid. Warframe and other F2Ps make their money selling the solution to these manufactured problems.

Warframe leverages two main pain points: time and, essentially, peer pressure. If other players look cool then you'll likely want to look cool too. So players buy skins, color palettes, attachments, etc. If something takes a long time to obtain then you'll likely want to get it faster or right away. So players pay for rushes, boosters, already-crafted items, etc. This is a simplified overview of how Warframe can continue to stay afloat.

Getting rid of one of these pain points just means that DE has to monetize something else, and I'd much rather wait a day or three for stuff to craft than, say, have to buy expansion packs or battle passes or premium time or gambling or P2W or any of the ways other F2Ps make their money. There's maybe a conversation to be had about adjusting rush costs for short or nearly-finished timers, but that's about all that could likely change.

[(PSN)Tomplexthis]

11 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

Warframe is a F2P. DE makes the money they use to continue development on the game by relying on conversions. A conversion is when a free user converts into a paying customer. Conversions are driven by putting pressure on pain points. A pain point is some negative thing or experience that the user might want to avoid. Warframe and other F2Ps make their money selling the solution to these manufactured problems.

Warframe leverages two main pain points: time and, essentially, peer pressure. If other players look cool then you'll likely want to look cool too. So players buy skins, color palettes, attachments, etc. If something takes a long time to obtain then you'll likely want to get it faster or right away. So players pay for rushes, boosters, already-crafted items, etc. This is a simplified overview of how Warframe can continue to stay afloat.

Getting rid of one of these pain points just means that DE has to monetize something else, and I'd much rather wait a day or three for stuff to craft than, say, have to buy expansion packs or battle passes or premium time or gambling or P2W or any of the ways other F2Ps make their money. There's maybe a conversation to be had about adjusting rush costs for short or nearly-finished timers, but that's about all that could likely change.

yeah, explain that to the people i play with so they'll stop whining please -_ -

 

So theres 10 people that try warframe, 9 leave because time gates and "pain points" annoy them.

you keep 1. that 1 has a 50% chance to stay for the 2 hour mark, then is gone, they either play 3000 hours to get stuff

or they just quit and never look back. with warframe, those that stay, feel like they have to protect that pile at all costs.

just saying, warframes entire basis, feels like a closed off community of gamers. those who do 3000 hours, and those who leave.

i've been in public lobbies/matches listening to the rage and disgust/hate people have for the grind aspect. it kinda sucks

i feel you really have to be patient to enjoy warframe for what it is, even if sometimes you pay play to skip that massive wait.

-i dont know man, i cant wrap my mind around it. like how they think i guess.

some of the stuff in warframe will take literal YEARS, to earn in the game. like the daily 1000 logins. 

new players to this game, like jeesh, have a mountain to climb to even get anywhere. and still get nowhere just the same

[(PSN)Reaper330011]

21 minutes ago, (PSN)Tomplexthis said:

yeah, explain that to the people i play with so they'll stop whining please -_ -

 

So theres 10 people that try warframe, 9 leave because time gates and "pain points" annoy them.

you keep 1. that 1 has a 50% chance to stay for the 2 hour mark, then is gone, they either play 3000 hours to get stuff

or they just quit and never look back. with warframe, those that stay, feel like they have to protect that pile at all costs.

just saying, warframes entire basis, feels like a closed off community of gamers. those who do 3000 hours, and those who leave.

i've been in public lobbies/matches listening to the rage and disgust/hate people have for the grind aspect. it kinda sucks

i feel you really have to be patient to enjoy warframe for what it is, even if sometimes you pay play to skip that massive wait.

-i dont know man, i cant wrap my mind around it. like how they think i guess.

some of the stuff in warframe will take literal YEARS, to earn in the game. like the daily 1000 logins. 

new players to this game, like jeesh, have a mountain to climb to even get anywhere. and still get nowhere just the same

I started like 4 months ago, and I agree with this.

The damn salt that comes from this game, the RNG. I spent 3 weeks farming a non-primed warframe, and thst makes me LUCKY. I saw a guy trying to farm nidus for 5 weeks until he gave up. The RNG drives you mad, and it takes intense patience to play this game. Sometimes you have to wait day and night for a person to say WTS (Content) or wait 72 hrs for a frame like Nekros to build, then you spend the rest of your day putting in forma or farming sorties for potatoes. SO, we spend 1 week getting 1 frame, then have to wait and extra 3 days for it to build. The DE are profit-takers. 
 

The game is free! It’s a good game! 
 

Oh sorry you have to pay or just spend a few weeks waiting and farming a single item.

 

Just to be a LITTLE BIT GOOD you need to farm for about a Month.

[NecroPed]

The time gates is what gives incentive to buy stuff. And if people don't buy stuff DE can't provide warframe to us for free. 

The solution is already here: spend platinum if you don't want to wait in a free game. 

As an added benefit of Warframes free to play model you can earn items to sell to players and spend platinum essentially for free (at the cost of someone else).

[(PSN)Reaper330011]

3 minutes ago, NecroPed said:

The time gates is what gives incentive to buy stuff. And if people don't buy stuff DE can't provide warframe to us for free. 

The solution is already here: spend platinum if you don't want to wait in a free game. 

As an added benefit of Warframes free to play model you can earn items to sell to players and spend platinum essentially for free (at the cost of someone else).

But in the end, some people still lose out.

[NecroPed]

21 minutes ago, (PSN)Reaper330011 said:

But in the end, some people still lose out.

And if we didn't have these paid purchases we'd ALL lose because there would be no Warframe without the money to fund it.

[PublikDomain]

1 hour ago, (PSN)Tomplexthis said:

yeah, explain that to the people i play with so they'll stop whining please -_ -

 

So theres 10 people that try warframe, 9 leave because time gates and "pain points" annoy them.

you keep 1. that 1 has a 50% chance to stay for the 2 hour mark, then is gone, they either play 3000 hours to get stuff

or they just quit and never look back. with warframe, those that stay, feel like they have to protect that pile at all costs.

just saying, warframes entire basis, feels like a closed off community of gamers. those who do 3000 hours, and those who leave.

i've been in public lobbies/matches listening to the rage and disgust/hate people have for the grind aspect. it kinda sucks

i feel you really have to be patient to enjoy warframe for what it is, even if sometimes you pay play to skip that massive wait.

-i dont know man, i cant wrap my mind around it. like how they think i guess.

some of the stuff in warframe will take literal YEARS, to earn in the game. like the daily 1000 logins. 

new players to this game, like jeesh, have a mountain to climb to even get anywhere. and still get nowhere just the same

And the few that make it into the hundreds or thousands of hours bankroll the whole gig. It's just how F2Ps work. On Steam the Pride of the Lotus achievement (100 hours) is at 12%, so out of the let's say 35M or so Steam users that's still a good 4M+ players, and that's being conservative. It's a strategy that works, and the trend lately even for games tat were once paid-only has been towards F2P.

Not saying the game can't be improved, of course. Stuff like giving new players slots for Mastery ranks, better early questing and tutorializing, better late-game content to work towards. But core monetization strategies like crafting timers are part of the way the game makes its money. Having to be patient is one of the lesser of many possible evils.

[(PSN)Tomplexthis]

45 minutes ago, (PSN)Reaper330011 said:

I started like 4 months ago, and I agree with this.

The damn salt that comes from this game, the RNG. I spent 3 weeks farming a non-primed warframe, and thst makes me LUCKY. I saw a guy trying to farm nidus for 5 weeks until he gave up. The RNG drives you mad, and it takes intense patience to play this game. Sometimes you have to wait day and night for a person to say WTS (Content) or wait 72 hrs for a frame like Nekros to build, then you spend the rest of your day putting in forma or farming sorties for potatoes. SO, we spend 1 week getting 1 frame, then have to wait and extra 3 days for it to build. The DE are profit-takers. 
 

The game is free! It’s a good game! 
 

Oh sorry you have to pay or just spend a few weeks waiting and farming a single item.

 

Just to be a LITTLE BIT GOOD you need to farm for about a Month.

yes. the concept is that you cant get it across to players to build then do other stuff. its annoying, but its not intrusive.

 

[DarkSkysz]

Easier to farm void stuff, sell and buy what you want than convince DE to remove craft timers.

[(PSN)Reaper330011]

3 minutes ago, (PSN)Tomplexthis said:

yes. the concept is that you cant get it across to players to build then do other stuff. its annoying, but its not intrusive.

 

In some cases, you actually need to get that thing built so you can actually DO THE OTHER STUFF

[Leyvonne]

How to deal with crafting times; don't craft things only when you need them, keep your foundry busy and move on to farm other things while you wait. For example I have needed forma in a long time because I only use it on stuff I like playing, but I still keep crafting more as soon as I get a blueprint. For weapons and frames I start them asap and start farming for the next one already so that I'm not just idly waiting for the timers. The worst thing you can do is "oh no it takes 72 hours to craft", that will make it feel much longer than it really is.

[chaotea]

4 hours ago, (PSN)Tomplexthis said:

-what are the honest thoughts on this? i've seen it mentioned in a ton of Devstreams. 

They should remove crafting timers compleatly.

It made sense to pad the game abit when we had a handful of weapons and warframes to collect but these days its just arbitary waiting for no reason. Especially as most of the time you have a 3-4 day 'waiting' time as you farm all the parts.

My argument to this point for anyone who disagrees is: Nemisis rewards. At the moment, after defeating your nemisis, you get your weapon pre-built in the foundary. Would this be improved by a 1-2 day wait timer to claim it? If not, it points to the benifits of remove wait timers.

[chaotea]

13 minutes ago, Leyvonne said:

How to deal with crafting times; don't craft things only when you need them, keep your foundry busy and move on to farm other things while you wait.

This is basically saying 'deal with it'. No one is crafting things only when they need it. As soon as you can craft disposable items like potatoes or forma you do so. But these arnt the real issues.

Stuff like warframes can take days, even weeks to farm (looking at you equinox). With each component taking 12 hours to build, it means you can only start making the frame itself 12 hours after you get the last piece. Your 'reward' for this wait timer is your warframe. 72 hours later. If the wait timer is at least 12 hours before you can build your WF, then the real wait timer for a warframe is 84 hours. And thats ignoring any farming time.

 

In the end, i understand that Warframe is a F2P game. Wait timers are a method of making purchacing warframes more intising. But its also one of the S#&$tiest methods of doing so. I say this as someone who has bought every warframe from the market. Every one. I dont, and wont, benifit from a change to warframe crafting timers being removed. But it is my heart felt belief that it will make the game better.

[Leyvonne]

17 minutes ago, chaotea said:

This is basically saying 'deal with it'. No one is crafting things only when they need it. As soon as you can craft disposable items like potatoes or forma you do so. But these arnt the real issues.

Oh really? There was actually a thread recently where someone was complaining about how forma is going to destroy Warframe because we keep needing more and more every time a frame or weapon is added it takes 24h to craft one. Why didn't the guy have forma? Because he only crafted it when needed. And the sad part is I know a lot of people who are exactly like that; only crafting when they need something instead of trying to keep a buffer / stock.

And yes, I am basically saying "deal with it" for two reasons; I doubt anything will be done about any of the timers in the game and because we can farm plat to either buy the item or skip the timer. Imo the timers here are nothing compared to many MMOs where we might not see the actual timers, but are time gated on literally everything from how often we can do content to a quest taking a minimum of 20 days to complete even if you already have all the items for it because you can only turn in 1 item at a time.

[chaotea]

2 hours ago, Leyvonne said:

Oh really? There was actually a thread recently where someone was complaining about how forma is going to destroy Warframe because we keep needing more and more every time a frame or weapon is added it takes 24h to craft one. Why didn't the guy have forma? Because he only crafted it when needed.

Ok, so when i say 'no one' i obvoisly didnt account for the one or two people who dont, but equally those few dont mean its the flagship for most. I always run out of forma. I make it as soon as i get it. Why do i run out? Because i use 5-7 per weapon, for every weapon. Would reducing craft times of this help? Sure. Would i farm more or less because of it? Probably not. Hell, i buy forma because i use so much of it.

2 hours ago, Leyvonne said:

And the sad part is I know a lot of people who are exactly like that; only crafting when they need something instead of trying to keep a buffer / stock.

Thats probably because its so unintuitive to most gamers. What tripple A games that arnt on mobile have crafting timers? In fact, very few games have crafting timers without the mechanic that you can somehow pay to bypass it. Thats all it is, a cheap way to squeeze money out of you by with-holding gameplay.

Wait timers are the fallback of bad game developers who havnt got the content to sell anything of real value. I will 'White Knight' DE on most topics, but they are better than wait timers. They have the revenue streams without relying on this D list mobile game tactic.

 

2 hours ago, Leyvonne said:

And yes, I am basically saying "deal with it" for two reasons; I doubt anything will be done about any of the timers in the game

If we dont disscuss the issue its not going to change.

If DE changed Mod packs, AKA loot boxes, they might change this.

2 hours ago, Leyvonne said:

..... and because we can farm plat to either buy the item or skip the timer.

No, you cant farm plat. I need to make this clear.

There is no way - zero, zilch, nada - to earn plat through in-game activity.

You trade for plat. You farm items to sell.

This is an important difference because of one simple point. Someone, somewhere, at some time, has paid for that play. Someone has spent money on that plat in order to bring it into the game (with the exception of plat won in contests). This means that every time you spend plat, you are spending money.

So, is skipping wait timers (that are only in there in order to tempt you into skipping them) worth actual money. Can you confidantly say you would buy platinum in order to spend on skipping an item. If the answer is no, for whatever reason, can you still expect to make this a seriuos suggestion to other people.

3 hours ago, Leyvonne said:

Imo the timers here are nothing compared to many MMOs where we might not see the actual timers, but are time gated on literally everything from how often we can do content to a quest taking a minimum of 20 days to complete even if you already have all the items for it because you can only turn in 1 item at a time.

So because someone else has done it worse, it doesnt matter here? Because some unrelated game did something worse, we shouldnt try to fix issues here?

The next time someone posts about a graphical glitch, will you jump on that post and say 'Skyrim is way buggier so theres no point fixing this one'?

 

[LagartoPunkarra]

I don't know why waiting times is a really big deal to some people. Don't you have other things to do while the timer runs? Like, farming other stuff? Or leveling weapons? Or just, Idunno, playing other games?

And if your argument is to "incentivize players to buy stuff with platinum instead", then you should play other free MMOs, they try to make you pay for things that are free in this game.

DE could half the build times, yes, but the game has currently bigger issues, like how single target weapons are crap compared to AOE weapons, holokey farming being tedious, melee still being overpowered... I would say that DE should prioritize those issues instead of a couple of timers.

[(XBOX)O37GEKKO]

as a person, whos bought a decent amount of platinum... knowing where warframe came from, but i'm not a founder...

supporting.

                        (a game that i not only love but is also is constantly growing and devs who are catering to a growing playerbase.)

is. my. choice.

remember one thing. the original slogan of warframe, is still: ninjas play free

so when i drop platinum into anything, whether its skins, palettes, buying stuff i want in trade, or even rushing stuff to use sooner,

i put the same value on that content; as the money in my wallet.

it doesn't matter if you're investing time to grind, money to rush, patience to wait or kindness to help people farm.

there is: too much goddamn content in warframe,

for anyone to complain about waiting, and if you can't figure out something else to do with your time ingame. GO OUTSIDE