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Nidus Prime vs Lore


ZeroX4
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Im not into warframe lore and i know next to nothing about it and from that fact my question is born

When i was new to warframe idk if i even was mr10 i had a guy in clan talking with other guy about prime warframes
And i asked would it happen that every single warframe will ever get primed version?
And he answered that some wont like for example nidus and i asked why? And he said because it would be not lore wise correct

And well now we have nidus prime and i wonder was he wrong about that lore part?
What he was talking about?
Or in fact nidus prime according to lore should not exist?
 

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14 minutes ago, VoidArkhangel said:

Valkyr

Orokin times: Valkyr Gersemi is regular Valkyr and Valkyr prime is there too.

Present: Some Tenno with a regular rank 1 Valkyr and flawed vitality gets captured then skinned by Alad V, now the Valkyr blueprint is corrupted, physically, and it's the only blueprint available.

Not too hard to explain

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7 minutes ago, (XBOX)C11H22O11 said:

Orokin times: Valkyr Gersemi is regular Valkyr and Valkyr prime is there too.

Present: Some Tenno with a regular rank 1 Valkyr and flawed vitality gets captured then skinned by Alad V, now the Valkyr blueprint is corrupted, physically, and it's the only blueprint available.

Not too hard to explain

Slight issue with that. Valkyr's toolkit came from what she suffered at the hands of Alad. Hysteria is something she developed on her own, while Ripline, Paralysis, and possibly Warcry are just modified from extant Corpus tech. Valkyr Prime's abilities would have to be completely different for them to be lore friendly, which they aren't.

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27 minutes ago, (XBOX)C11H22O11 said:

Was it pre-sacrifice? It would be questionable back then but post-sacrifice basically removes the "Nidus can't be primed cause infestation" idea

 

23 minutes ago, VoidArkhangel said:

The only 2 warframes with its primes having conflicts in the story are Revenant and Valkyr, any other warframe can be explained but anyways DE said they would explain it back when they were talking about Nidus Prime on Tennocon so we just have to wait.

None of that explains anything

So like back then (that was like 4-5 years ago) my clan mate was in fact right?

And if yes then why nidus could not have prime? And better question why he can now?

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26 minutes ago, VoidArkhangel said:

The only 2 warframes with its primes having conflicts in the story are Revenant and Valkyr, any other warframe can be explained but anyways DE said they would explain it back when they were talking about Nidus Prime on Tennocon so we just have to wait.

Not the only two. Harrow and Protea conflict with Lore due to them being unique one-offs, while Xaku and yes, Nidus also break lore for the same reasons as Revenant and Valkyr. As a matter of fact, Xaku's "Prime" by lore should be three different Warframes, each bearing one of the abilities that make up The Lost.

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14 minutes ago, VoidArkhangel said:

The only 2 warframes with its primes having conflicts in the story are Revenant and Valkyr, any other warframe can be explained but anyways DE said they would explain it back when they were talking about Nidus Prime on Tennocon so we just have to wait.

Just expanding on this since OP already had questions about lore:  Minor Spoilers ahead.

 

Primes are, as far as I am aware, supposed to represent the "pure" original Orokin version of a frame.  I don't think this is every directly hard confirmed by DE, and I am aware of many differing theories on what primes represent.  Just going with the generally accepted theory for this explanation.

Revenant is an "eidolon" themed frame but only got that way because he was tainted by the essence of the eidolons, which are basically sentient ghosts.  His "original" version would not have the powers that he has as a tainted version in his non-prime forms, but that's now how DE does primes.

Valkyr is a rage/berserker themed frame and got that way because she was tortured and vivisected (That's what a "live dissection" is Tyl.  It's a vivisection.  I'm not having flashbacks from farming equinox twice.) so that Alad V could further his work on the Zanuka project.  Her original prime form shouldn't have those rage issues because the original wasn't the frame that got tortured.

So with the generally accepted theories, they don't really mesh as primes, though Revenant doesn't have a prime yet.

As far as nidus is concerned, his frame has very little to do with the Glast Gambit quest other than both having infested themes.  It's not like it's ever stated anywhere (that I know of at least.) that he was a different frame corrupted by the infestation.  Considering our frames are made out of a different strain of the virus that creates the infested, there is even less to suggest that Nidus Prime doesn't mesh with lore.

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1 minute ago, (XBOX)TehChubbyDugan said:

As far as nidus is concerned, his frame has very little to do with the Glast Gambit quest other than both having infested themes.  It's not like it's ever stated anywhere (that I know of at least.) that he was a different frame corrupted by the infestation.  Considering our frames are made out of a different strain of the virus that creates the infested, there is even less to suggest that Nidus Prime doesn't mesh with lore.

Then allow me to explain why Nidus Prime clashes with the Lore. Simply put, the special Strain of infestation that exists on the Mycona had to have come from somewhere, that somewhere probably being whatever it was the Mycona was originally transporting merging with the Infestation to become what it is now. That something was probably a dormant Warframe, which the Infestation tried to claim, accidentally merged with, and ended up mutating both. The "Old War Relic" that Glast bartered for the final round of Index was probably just scans of the mutated Frame.

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4 minutes ago, Kerberos-3 said:

Slight issue with that. Valkyr's toolkit came from what she suffered at the hands of Alad. Hysteria is something she developed on her own, while Ripline, Paralysis, and possibly Warcry are just modified from extant Corpus tech. Valkyr Prime's abilities would have to be completely different for them to be lore friendly, which they aren't.

She's a berserker being angry is her thing, even if you ignore that the corpus back then knew basically nothing about Warframes, and still probably barely know anything, and even later Alad on second dream confirms he doesn't understand anything, they can't exactly do anything beyond physical modifications.

I've said this before but "Valkyr prime making no sense" is an idea rooted into the community that people just accept it and instead of asking "how could this make sense" they just go with "yep doesn't make sense I give up"

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3 minutes ago, (XBOX)TehChubbyDugan said:

One-off's only exist if there are no blueprints for them to be remade.  The blueprints exist, we remade them, they are no longer unique.

Blueprints we made from scans taken from the versions we destroyed, same way we did during the Sacrifice. Prior to our completing of those quests. only a single version of Harrow and Protea exist, and we destroy them both, scan their remains, create BPs from the data, and go from there.

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2 minutes ago, Kerberos-3 said:

Then allow me to explain why Nidus Prime clashes with the Lore. Simply put, the special Strain of infestation that exists on the Mycona had to have come from somewhere, that somewhere probably being whatever it was the Mycona was originally transporting merging with the Infestation to become what it is now. That something was probably a dormant Warframe, which the Infestation tried to claim, accidentally merged with, and ended up mutating both. The "Old War Relic" that Glast bartered for the final round of Index was probably just scans of the mutated Frame.

Except that's your head canon and not actual lore.  You can't say something doesn't mesh with the game lore because it doesn't mesh with YOUR lore lol.

The Helminth strain used to create warframes is what makes us immune to becoming infested by the infested faction.  Warframes being immune to the infestation is, in fact, canon which means the infestation on the ship didn't merge with Nidus to give the Myconians what they have now.  Them adapting the Helminth strain from Nidus to make a hybrid person that is immune to becoming infested is enough to explain the lore of the quest without there being whatever infested tampering you're making up.  The fact that the Helminth strain was used on people to make warframes, which are immune to the infested, supports this.

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25 minutes ago, Kerberos-3 said:

Slight issue with that. Valkyr's toolkit came from what she suffered at the hands of Alad. Hysteria is something she developed on her own, while Ripline, Paralysis, and possibly Warcry are just modified from extant Corpus tech. Valkyr Prime's abilities would have to be completely different for them to be lore friendly, which they aren't.

Literally none of this is true, her Prime has the same abilities for a reason, it's because that's what she started with. She was not literally made by Alad, she was skinned alive and that got her angry at him, that doesn't mean he was able to change her whole kit through her emotions or something.

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12 minutes ago, Kerberos-3 said:

Then allow me to explain why Nidus Prime clashes with the Lore. Simply put, the special Strain of infestation that exists on the Mycona had to have come from somewhere, that somewhere probably being whatever it was the Mycona was originally transporting merging with the Infestation to become what it is now. That something was probably a dormant Warframe, which the Infestation tried to claim, accidentally merged with, and ended up mutating both. The "Old War Relic" that Glast bartered for the final round of Index was probably just scans of the mutated Frame.

You're pulling up that evidence from thin air, the literal only thing we know about Nidus is that he was "an Old War relic". That tells us absolutely nothing about him, and since Warframes are a special strand of Infestation already, making a Warframe use the Helminth strain to attack directly and not fire or anti-matter isn't far-fetched or lore-breaking. Look at the wall meat in Cetus or the recent skin we got for Necramechs, the Orokin made a bunch of stuff out of Infestation in order to combat the Sentients.

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7 minutes ago, Kerberos-3 said:

Blueprints we made from scans taken from the versions we destroyed, same way we did during the Sacrifice. Prior to our completing of those quests. only a single version of Harrow and Protea exist, and we destroy them both, scan their remains, create BPs from the data, and go from there.

There is no direct lore that I know of that actually explains where we got the inferior versions of our warframes.  It may be that our inferior versions come from doing exactly that.  Scans of destroyed warframes that were primes.  Now we've made the inferior version.  Prime parts coming out of Void Relics heavily implies that we're pulling the originals out of other timelines via whatever relics actually are lore-wise.  That's speculation, but it's the only thing that makes sense for what relics actually are in relation to the void.

There's also nothing I'm aware of that directly states that Harrow and Protea were unique.  Just that Harrow was Rell's warframe and Protea was given to Parvos.  I don't even remember them saying anything about Protea's operator.  Both frames could have been regular versions for whatever reason.

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10 minutes ago, (XBOX)Graysmog said:

Literally none of this is true, her Prime has the same abilities for a reason, it's because that's what she started with. She was not literally made by Alad, she was skinned alive and that got her angry at him, that doesn't mean he was able to change her whole kit through her emotions or something.

"Previously having thrived among the Tenno in her natural Gersemi form, Valkyr is known for her capture and subsequent torment at the hands of Alad V. The obsessed Corpus scientist brought Valkyr to his lab on Jupiter where she was restrained and subjected to harsh experiments. This mad science would greatly expand the Corpus' knowledge of Warframe design, and consequentially left Valkyr maddened and scarred.

Ultimately, Valkyr was deconstructed and used to produce the Zanuka prototype, Alad V's companion fighting machine. However, blueprints of her components can still be found after defeating Alad V in combat.

Valkyr's abilities reflect her madness, accompanied by cries of anguish."

Taken from the wiki.  Emphasis mine.

Edited by (XBOX)TehChubbyDugan
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1 minute ago, (XBOX)TehChubbyDugan said:

There is no direct lore that I know of that actually explains where we got the inferior versions of our warframes.  It may be that our inferior versions come from doing exactly that.  Scans of destroyed warframes that were primes.  Now we've made the inferior version.  Prime parts coming out of Void Relics heavily implies that we're pulling the originals out of other timelines via whatever relics actually are lore-wise.  That's speculation, but it's the only thing that makes sense for what relics actually are in relation to the void.

There's also nothing I'm aware of that directly states that Harrow and Protea were unique.  Just that Harrow was Rell's warframe and Protea was given to Parvos.  I don't even remember them saying anything about Protea's operator.  Both frames could have been regular versions for whatever reason.

You can explain the BP's through stuff like deterioration over time, incorrect data, outside editing, improper materials and mishandling. When you get the Relics, they are the BP's in pristine condition lost through the Void, and since it doesn't follow the regular rules of the world, it's likely time and space is not a factor and we happen to find them through sheer luck.

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25 minutes ago, (PSN)ErydisTheLucario said:

I like these topics, no side can come to a consensus all because DE doesn't want to flesh out their lore. They keep adding to it, and some stuff ends up conflicting with itself, like Nidus prime Etc.

Honestly I don't know why I participate in these lol.  There's always at least one guy that swears up and down that his head canon is complete and total fact, signed and sealed by the whole dev team and it's totally supported by 
See the source image
And they absolutely lose their minds when you tell them they have no actual sources other than some imaginary connected dots.  At least I can admit when I'm speculating.

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13 minutes ago, (XBOX)TehChubbyDugan said:

"Previously having thrived among the Tenno in her natural Gersemi form, Valkyr is known for her capture and subsequent torment at the hands of Alad V. The obsessed Corpus scientist brought Valkyr to his lab on Jupiter where she was restrained and subjected to harsh experiments. This mad science would greatly expand the Corpus' knowledge of Warframe design, and consequentially left Valkyr maddened and scarred.

Ultimately, Valkyr was deconstructed and used to produce the Zanuka prototype, Alad V's companion fighting machine. However, blueprints of her components can still be found after defeating Alad V in combat.

Valkyr's abilities reflect her madness, accompanied by cries of anguish."

Taken from the wiki.  Emphasis mine.

Yet we already know from her trailer that Ballas designed her like that, as a beast trapped in a cage. 

Even if that is the case for some reason, there's nothing saying the basic version of Valkyr and her Prime aren't just two completely separate entities, as the game seems to imply with most story quests and Prime Trailers.

As an example, just because we get Valkyr's BP and she's skinned doesn't mean that Gersemi isn't what the actual base Valkyr looked like. We just only get access to her BP after Alad finished experimenting on her design in an attempt to replicate her Prime, something he's been known to do with other projects like the Helios sentinel.

Edited by (XBOX)Graysmog
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4 minutes ago, (XBOX)Graysmog said:

Yet we already know from her trailer that Ballas designed her like that, as a beast trapped in a cage. 

Even if that is the case for some reason, there's nothing saying the basic version of Valkyr and her Prime aren't just two completely separate entities, as the game seems to imply with most story quests and Prime Trailers.

As an example, just because we get Valkyr's BP and she's skinned doesn't mean that Gersemi isn't what the actual base Valkyr looked like. We just only get access to her BP after Alad finished experimenting on her design in an attempt to replicate her Prime, something he's been known to do with other projects like the Helios sentinel.

I honestly think a lot of these sorts of continuity issues are due to DE just not caring about making it make sense.  They will literally say one thing then contradict it with the next content drop and leave both in the game.  I say this because you have a point about the Valk Prime trailer, and yet her lore for the base frame says that I am also right.

Then again, like we've both mentioned, nothing even says these are cut from the same cloth.  For all we know, void relics allow access to a timeline that just has better stuff and we're yoinking it.  Dimension #44 Ballas is just way better at making warframes than the Ballas we got that only wants to chase tail.

Until DE nails literally anything in place we aren't going to have an answer.

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2 minutes ago, (XBOX)Graysmog said:

Yet we already know from her trailer that Ballas designed her like that, as a beast trapped in a cage. 

Even if that is the case for some reason, there's nothing saying the basic version of Valkyr and her Prime aren't just two completely separate entities, as the game seems to imply with most story quests and Prime Trailers.

 

9 minutes ago, (XBOX)TehChubbyDugan said:

Honestly I don't know why I participate in these lol.  There's always at least one guy that swears up and down that his head canon is complete and total fact, signed and sealed by the whole dev team and it's totally supported by 
See the source image
And they absolutely lose their minds when you tell them they have no actual sources other than some imaginary connected dots.  At least I can admit when I'm speculating.

Before you two get this topic locked could you at least try to answer my questions since seems you both know stuff related to lore?

Was my clan mate right or wrong to say nidus prime would be a conflict with lore and so we wont have his primed version? (which was like 4-5 years ago)
Whatever yes or no then why? Whats the idea behind it?
Why @(XBOX)C11H22O11 said pre sacrifice it would be against lore to have nidus in prime but post sacrifice it should be ok?

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14 minutes ago, (XBOX)TehChubbyDugan said:

Honestly I don't know why I participate in these lol.  There's always at least one guy that swears up and down that his head canon is complete and total fact, signed and sealed by the whole dev team and it's totally supported by 
See the source image
And they absolutely lose their minds when you tell them they have no actual sources other than some imaginary connected dots.  At least I can admit when I'm speculating.

I'm still surprised people think a pair of angel wings is against the style of Warframe.

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16 minutes ago, (XBOX)TehChubbyDugan said:

Honestly I don't know why I participate in these lol.  There's always at least one guy that swears up and down that his head canon is complete and total fact, signed and sealed by the whole dev team and it's totally supported by 
See the source image
And they absolutely lose their minds when you tell them they have no actual sources other than some imaginary connected dots.  At least I can admit when I'm speculating.

Yep, that's why I dont engage. If my idea doesn't fit their's to a T, theres no point in participating. I just like to watch as people destroy each other over whose headcanon is right or wrong.

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