Prime Resurgence Dev Workshop & FAQ

[SneakyErvin]

Just now, ABlindGuyPlays said:

FIVE DUCATS (when at a minamum prime parts give fifteen,)
 

Big difference though. You get those 5 ducats without doing a fissure. Do the fissure and get the minimum regular 15 if you like.

I wish I could do that with all relics, getting 5 instead of having them collect dust.

[PublikDomain]

57 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Discounts can be up to 100% though under the correct circumstances, which would imply it is free and even a gift.

Ok, so let's say that you're right, even though this is complete nonsense, and that the 200p at the accessories level is a 100% discount on plat and the accessories make up the entire $20 value. Plat still has value, and DE themselves puts that value a little over $10. So you're paying $20 for a little over $30 in value. That's a pretty good deal, yeah? It's indeed part of the reason these packs are so enticing.

But now you're paying $20 and get nothing else, no """free""" """gift""" to replace what was removed. Now you're paying $20 for $20 in value.

That doesn't sound like an equal 1:1 value to what you can get in Prime Vault to me... Sounds like they've significantly reduced the value in the packs... Which is the whole point of the last 39 pages of feedback. Duh.

[iPathos]

4 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

The bolded part is just silly fearmongering.

And no, they could not have added aya+plat, since that would result in the opposite and should likely also be considered the "wrong move" by the critical people. Or is everything that benefits the player OK? Access can only be bought once, RA packs can be bought over and over. Which means slapping plat on RA packs is a bad idea. More RA per pack could work, but then you'd have complainers going "why is there not a smaller pack cos I only need 3!?" followed by "uh hiking up prices!".

 

9 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

You will buy the packs from a vendor inside the game for Regal Aya which you buy from the site.

Ironic. Please get some self-awareness before trying this again, you're really not helping yourself or DE here.

3 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Big difference though. You get those 5 ducats without doing a fissure. Do the fissure and get the minimum regular 15 if you like.

I wish I could do that with all relics, getting 5 instead of having them collect dust.

Sorry, but no. That's a ridiculously flimsy argument as you're simply getting Aya in place of Vaulted relics. The original relics had a base value of at least 15 ducats, with the potential to go up to 100 - whereas them being replaced by Aya simply pins their value straight at the 5 ducat line, without any recourse for increase (assuming you don't use whatever quantity of Aya they choose to make you buy specific relics, which will definitely not be 1:1).

How...how are you this defensive about such a clearly flawed system?

[(PSN)RB3-Reloaded]

15 minutes ago, DukeRukasu said:

This post makes even less sense than your last... Of course they are two sides, they are literally marketed as the two ways to get stuff in this event. So yeah I think ignoring half of it and saying DE steps down on a level of EA and Activision because of it is super disingenuous

And just because the majority of players use prime frame doesnt mean, that they own the majority of the prime frames

“And just because the majority of players use prime frame doesnt mean, that they own the majority of the prime frames“

the data clearly shows once the players Mr reaches the rank to build the prime frame they use the prime frame more than the non prime counterparts… 

and The ISSUE is DE clearly knows that Regal Aya is not worth it’s price and is still pushing the event as it is which right down EA’s and Activisions Lane of Scummy monetary transactions. That’s the main ISSUE of the event because a MAJORITY of players are looking to buy the accessories. Stop using normal Aya to justify it because it’s simply a net neutral because of the backlog of primes as I said

[Hypernaut1]

But isn't it normal and accepted business practice to charge less per item for premade bundles compared to being able to pick and choose what you want? 

For $20-$40 I'll be getting exactly what I want instead of sugatras and distillers. This is a far better value to some than premade bundles which may or may not included what you want. 

I almost had to spend money on Mesa prime access for a helm I wanted. Now I can spend that same amount, I get several things I want, instead of 1. 

In the end, it's ALL waste of money, but regarding the prices that DE sets, I make out better with the regal aya. 

[iPathos]

Just now, Hypernaut1 said:

But isn't it normal and accepted business practice to charge less per item for premade bundles compared to being able to pick and choose what you want? 

For $20-$40 I'll be getting exactly what I want instead of sugatras and distillers. This is a far better value to some than premade bundles which may or may not included what you want. 

I almost had to spend money on Mesa prime access for a helm I wanted. Now I can spend that same amount, I get several things I want, instead of 1. 

In the end, it's ALL waste of money, but regarding the prices that DE sets, I make out better with the regal aya. 

That may be, this disparity in pricing while offering such nearly identical bundles (while the differing item or items are the main concern) is why people are so up in arms.

I have said this before, I agree with the idea that rotations should be far less limiting and more frequent. I do not in any way agree with DE's plans to execute it in this manner.

[SneakyErvin]

1 minute ago, PublikDomain said:

Ok, so let's say that you're right, even though this is complete nonsense, and that the 200p at the accessories level is a 100% discount on plat and the accessories make up the entire $20 value. Plat still has value, and DE themselves puts that value a little over $10. So you're paying $20 for a little over $30 in value. That's a pretty good deal, yeah? It's indeed part of the reason these packs are so enticing.

But now you're paying $20 and get nothing else, no """free""" """gift""" to replace what was removed. Now you're paying $20 for $20 in value.

That doesn't sound like an equal 1:1 value to what you can get in Prime Vault to me... Sounds like they've significantly reduced the value in the packs... Which is the whole point of the last 39 pages of feedback. Duh.

Well to the player the value is indeed different, which I've agreed with all along, the hard value however is the same i.e DE's own pricing of things. And for the specific accessories pack I think the cost is too high given what accessories we get. To me they are not worth $20, which would equal around 370 plat. Armors tend to be around 100 and the other item tends to be 15-50 or something for a "normal" cosmetic. 

The other bundles though that include frames and weapons, they are already worth their price on their own, and the bigger the bundle the worth value per item.

Even DE states that they understand that premium has a different value to the player. But that is still a value to the player, not the actual "retail" value of something.

[PublikDomain]

1 minute ago, Hypernaut1 said:

But isn't it normal and accepted business practice to charge less per item for premade bundles compared to being able to pick and choose what you want? 

For $20-$40 I'll be getting exactly what I want instead of sugatras and distillers. This is a far better value to some than premade bundles which may or may not included what you want. 

I almost had to spend money on Mesa prime access for a helm I wanted. Now I can spend that same amount, I get several things I want, instead of 1. 

In the end, it's ALL waste of money, but regarding the prices that DE sets, I make out better with the regal aya. 

So get ripped off, lol. We're not gonna stop you from making bad decisions, have at it. Just quit trying to convince others that this is some great generous deal when everyone can tell that it clearly is not.

[(XBOX)xLord Escanorx]

il y a 5 minutes, SneakyErvin a dit :

fearmongering

could be,only time will tell.

i thought the packs was a one time purchases that reset every week (quite confusing system) but still "aya+plat" was just an exemple,my point was that its not difficult to find a solution for the issue if they really wanted to.

[Perfectly_Framed_Waifu]

12 minutes ago, (XBOX)Shodian said:

15 minutes ago, Perfectly_Framed_Waifu said:

You don't buy the Prime Vault packs directly in the game either, but from the site

You're forgetting about consoles though. They have a different setup as well.

But with the upcoming cross-platform, we'll all technically be PC players. That would make site-buying work for all platforms, no?

11 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Maybe, just maybe keep up with what is changing. You will buy the packs from a vendor inside the game for Regal Aya which you buy from the site. All this is done so they dont have to update the store front with every new unvault, so they can just replace the items available on the vendor through a rotation. Allowing them to just activate or deactivate a single store front purchasable i.e Regal Aya in the future.

So there is alot stopping them from using the old system which involved direct cash payments per prime bundle.

1. I love how you think I will buy any Regal Aya whatsoever. The state of this thread should've clued you in on you being wrong on that point as well.

2. Speaking as an actual, graduated webmaster, the activation/deactivation of a group of products on a web store could be easily combined into a single button. Hell, it could even be automated with set dates or time periods. "Activate rotation[X], deactivate rotation[X-1], wait 7 days", that sort of thing. There's nothing stopping them from sticking with the old system and simply improving on it.

3. "alot stopping them"

9 minutes ago, Circle_of_Psi said:

Well, I've  contacted the following: YongYea, Paul Tessi and Jim (Twitter, as it's stated on there to ask there)

If that does anything, we'll find out, but I doute someone like me or you will bring it to their attention, unless we ALL do it.

Fingers crossed, and props to you for having done that. I implore others to do the same.

[PublikDomain]

7 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Well to the player the value is indeed different, which I've agreed with all along, the hard value however is the same i.e DE's own pricing of things. And for the specific accessories pack I think the cost is too high given what accessories we get. To me they are not worth $20, which would equal around 370 plat. Armors tend to be around 100 and the other item tends to be 15-50 or something for a "normal" cosmetic. 

The other bundles though that include frames and weapons, they are already worth their price on their own, and the bigger the bundle the worth value per item.

Even DE states that they understand that premium has a different value to the player. But that is still a value to the player, not the actual "retail" value of something.

A little over $10 is literally the retail value of 200p.

https://www.warframe.com/buyplatinum

That's DE's valuation, not the players.

Edit: And if you think an armor set and another cosmetic are 150p, that's like $9. Which, plus a little over $10 in plat is.... wait for it.... $20. 🤦‍♀️ You're absolutely right that two cosmetics isn't worth $20, that's why the value of the packs have always been propped up with plat.

[iPathos]

1 minute ago, PublikDomain said:

A little over $10 is literally the retail value of 200p.

https://www.warframe.com/buyplatinum

That's DE's valuation, not the players.

It's not worth the effort, really. Arguing with this level of denial is simply:

[SneakyErvin]

9 minutes ago, iPathos said:

 

Ironic. Please get some self-awareness before trying this again, you're really not helping yourself or DE here.

Sorry, but no. That's a ridiculously flimsy argument as you're simply getting Aya in place of Vaulted relics. The original relics had a base value of at least 15 ducats, with the potential to go up to 100 - whereas them being replaced by Aya simply pins their value straight at the 5 ducat line, without any recourse for increase (assuming you don't use whatever quantity of Aya they choose to make you buy specific relics, which will definitely not be 1:1).

How...how are you this defensive about such a clearly flawed system?

For #*!%s sake man, keep up with the info.

Relics are 1:1 A:R from the vendor, this has been explained over and over. So selling the Aya for 5 ducats is the same as selling a single uncracked relic for 5 ducats. Buy a #*!%ing relic if you wanna cram out another 10 from it, cos I'm sure you dont already have several thousands of relics that server the same purpose? Being able to sell the Aya for 5 ducats is a massive boon in this otherwise relic saturated game if you dont wanna save them for evergreens or other non-relic things.

There is absolutely zero reason to buy a relic with them unless you specifically need one of the unvaulted items within one.

Again, keep up with the info.

[iPathos]

1 minute ago, SneakyErvin said:

For #*!%s sake man, keep up with the info.

Relics are 1:1 A:R from the vendor, this has been explained over and over. So selling the Aya for 5 ducats is the same as selling a single uncracked relic for 5 ducats. Buy a #*!%ing relic if you wanna cram out another 10 from it, cos I'm sure you dont already have several thousands of relics that server the same purpose? Being able to sell the Aya for 5 ducats is a massive boon in this otherwise relic saturated game if you dont wanna save them for evergreens or other non-relic things.

There is absolutely zero reason to buy a relic with them unless you specifically need one of the unvaulted items within one.

Again, keep up with the info.

And where exactly is that clarified? All the places I've seen that stated (the original post - edited or not, the FAQ page on Warframe.com, followup posts) do not clarify that Relics will be a 1:1 trade ratio from Varzia. Let alone that fact, why are they offering a 5 ducat exchange option even if that is the case? It's a joke compared to even the occasional return of a forma from cracking a relic.

Current stocks of relics have no bearing on that offer or the exchange rate as Aya only drops in place of Vaulted relics during the event, there is no exchange for extant vaulted relics (which yes, I have thousands of).

You are the one who needs to keep up with the info, here.

[IG88-3212]

4 minutes ago, iPathos said:

And where exactly is that clarified?

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1287113-aya-and-vaulted-relics-overview-hotfix-3094-preview-console-hotfix-preview/

2 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

1 Aya = 1 Relic.

 

[xXDeadsinxX]

2 hours ago, Circle_of_Psi said:

As always huh?

It’s definitely not shocking to see but more just saddening to see a developer you once appreciated go down the same road over and over of not listening to their communities feedback day in and day out.

[Perfectly_Framed_Waifu]

2 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Relics are 1:1 A:R from the vendor, this has been explained over and over. So selling the Aya for 5 ducats is the same as selling a single uncracked relic for 5 ducats. Buy a #*!%ing relic if you wanna cram out another 10 from it, cos I'm sure you dont already have several thousands of relics that server the same purpose? Being able to sell the Aya for 5 ducats is a massive boon in this otherwise relic saturated game if you dont wanna save them for evergreens or other non-relic things.

There is absolutely zero reason to buy a relic with them unless you specifically need one of the unvaulted items within one.

The amount of slalom around the truth of the matter here is astounding... You talk about relic saturation but completely forget that the relics the game is saturated with ain't exactly Loki Prime relics! If I could sell the relics that I and everyone else have 1000+ of for 5 ducats each, yeah I'd definitely do that. But this ain't those relics, chief!

Being able to sell Aya for a measly 5 ducats each is actually a scam in its own regard, at least until a possible future where Aya itself becomes oversaturated.

[Hypernaut1]

11 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

So get ripped off, lol. We're not gonna stop you from making bad decisions, have at it. Just quit trying to convince others that this is some great generous deal when everyone can tell that it clearly is not.

Oh I'm sorry... Am I only allowed to be negative and carry pitchforks  here? 

The same way there are people wanting to burn DE for setting their own prices for prime accessories, there are people that think it's a good deal because they get to choose. 

As far as I know, DE hasn't forced anyone to buy anything or charged anyone's account without knowing. 

[SneakyErvin]

3 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

A little over $10 is literally the retail value of 200p.

https://www.warframe.com/buyplatinum

That's DE's valuation, not the players.

Yeah... and that was pointed out why?

5 minutes ago, Perfectly_Framed_Waifu said:

But with the upcoming cross-platform, we'll all technically be PC players. That would make site-buying work for all platforms, no?

1. I love how you think I will buy any Regal Aya whatsoever. The state of this thread should've clued you in on you being wrong on that point as well.

2. Speaking as an actual, graduated webmaster, the activation/deactivation of a group of products on a web store could be easily combined into a single button. Hell, it could even be automated with set dates or time periods. "Activate rotation[X], deactivate rotation[X-1], wait 7 days", that sort of thing. There's nothing stopping them from sticking with the old system and simply improving on it.

3. "alot stopping them"

1. I love how you think I love to think you will buy RA. Are you not aware of the universal use of "you"?

2. It also needs to be set up to interact with the game each time, which in WF's case we know requires patching for every new PA or UA. Which is why DE also changes it to be a part of the game through a vendor that can be rotated as needed through the backend without a patch. They pretty much gave the very reason for why they want to have it inside the game.

3. Yes, alot, such as national verification requirements (like implementing bank-id app interaction straight to the game), payment options etc. that is not programmed into the game at a "first part" level. Everything, even their own store front is handled by a third party, with further parties involved depending on region. Xsolla handles their store by the looks of it, while in Europe purchases go through something called DigitalRiver in Ireland.

[iPathos]

3 minutes ago, IG88-3212 said:

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1287113-aya-and-vaulted-relics-overview-hotfix-3094-preview-console-hotfix-preview/

 

Thank you for clarifying, I also would prefer if SneakyErvin would expand on their accusations when the "clarification" so shown wasn't something literally posted 2h ago while I was mid-sortie and at approximately 2:30am.

[SordidDreams]

On 2021-11-02 at 8:05 PM, [DE]Danielle said:

Why did you include Endo in the Packs instead of Platinum like in Prime Vault? 

Generous amounts of Endo were added to the packs instead of Platinum because we simply cannot justify or reason with having players pay for one premium currency to purchase another.

Fair enough, but then how did you justify having players pay for a premium currency when what they wanted was a cosmetic? Because let's be honest here, plat in Prime bundles exists for one reason and one reason only, to pad out the price. It's the old retail trick of pairing what you want with an almost worthless item, producing a 'bargain' bundle that costs more than the item you want would on its own. Nothing new under the sun.

The best and most consumer-friendly way to handle this would be to sell Prime cosmetics separately for what they would cost if not bundled with anything. Which, in case you're wondering, would be about $4.50 for an armor set / syandana and about $2.25 for a glyph / sugatra (assuming the 2:1 price ratio between 'major' and 'minor' cosmetics as per this workshop). I might actually consider buying some in that case, but I'm not going to pay more than double that just because you bundled it with plat that I don't want. And I'm definitely not going to buy any now that you've effectively raised the price by replacing an almost worthless item in the bundle with a completely worthless one.

[PublikDomain]

3 minutes ago, iPathos said:

It's not worth the effort, really. Arguing with this level of denial is simply:

Ah, but that's the thing. I'm not gonna convince Sneaky, I know that. DE can do no wrong even when they're being unfair to their new customers. The value in arguing against this nonsense is all in keeping this thread active and continuing to inform our peers about the terrible deal they're getting if they buy in to this.

Which is also why it's important to be right:

4 minutes ago, iPathos said:

And where exactly is that clarified? All the places I've seen that stated (the original post - edited or not, the FAQ page on Warframe.com, followup posts) do not clarify that Relics will be a 1:1 trade ratio from Varzia. Let alone that fact, why are they offering a 5 ducat exchange option even if that is the case? It's a joke compared to even the occasional return of a forma from cracking a relic.

Aya is a 1:1 trade for Relics, they showed it on stream and Rebecca's latest post the other guy linked explains it again.

And the 5-ducat price doesn't really matter, since you can just get the Relics and crack them instead. It's there I guess if you just want to cash out real quick? It's not a great deal but if you don't want to go through the effort to crack them then it's a fast way to dump your Aya when the event ends and there's no particular problem I see with it. If you'd rather put the time in to crack them for more Ducats, then crack them.

[DukeRukasu]

vor 6 Minuten schrieb (PSN)RB3-Reloaded:

“And just because the majority of players use prime frame doesnt mean, that they own the majority of the prime frames“

the data clearly shows once the players Mr reaches the rank to build the prime frame they use the prime frame more than the non prime counterparts… 

and The ISSUE is DE clearly knows that Regal Aya is not worth it’s price and is still pushing the event as it is which right down EA’s and Activisions Lane of Scummy monetary transactions. That’s the main ISSUE of the event because a MAJORITY of players are looking to buy the accessories. Stop using normal Aya to justify it because it’s simply a net neutral because of the backlog of primes as I said

That still makes zero sense: Using Primes more =/= having the majority of primes

And that the majority of the players just want the accessoirs is also just guessing on your part

And for the very last time: I never made that justification!

[SneakyErvin]

1 minute ago, Perfectly_Framed_Waifu said:

The amount of slalom around the truth of the matter here is astounding... You talk about relic saturation but completely forget that the relics the game is saturated with ain't exactly Loki Prime relics! If I could sell the relics that I and everyone else have 1000+ of for 5 ducats each, yeah I'd definitely do that. But this ain't those relics, chief!

Being able to sell Aya for a measly 5 ducats each is actually a scam in its own regard, at least until a possible future where Aya itself becomes oversaturated.

Oh dear Hel. No it isnt a scam, it is an option if a player doesnt want to spend time cracking those relics or buying them at all. You arent forced to give up your Aya for anything, you are allowed the option to buy whatever you want for them. It is no more a scam to get 5 ducats for an Aya than it is leaving a relic uncracked in an inventory.

[iPathos]

Just now, PublikDomain said:

Ah, but that's the thing. I'm not gonna convince Sneaky, I know that. DE can do no wrong even when they're being unfair to their new customers. The value in arguing against this nonsense is all in keeping this thread active and continuing to inform our peers about the terrible deal they're getting if they buy in to this.

Which is also why it's important to be right:

Aya is a 1:1 trade for Relics, they showed it on stream and Rebecca's latest post the other guy linked explains it again.

And the 5-ducat price doesn't really matter, since you can just get the Relics and crack them instead. It's there I guess if you just want to cash out real quick? It's not a great deal but if you don't want to go through the effort to crack them then it's a fast way to dump your Aya when the event ends and there's no particular problem I see with it. If you'd rather put the time in to crack them for more Ducats, then crack them.

As stated. I was both mid-Sortie at the time of the post and I rarely catch streams due to work schedules in the vast majority of cases. Finding these things out after the fact became a way of life about three years ago when my current roster got finalized.

Even so, the "fast cash out" idea is a bit of a cop-out when the drop rate is so low to begin with, and seems entirely pointless if the exchange rate is as stated 1:1 for vaulted relics. Like, I understand you can get forma as a drop, but you would be unlucky to get it often enough to make that Ducat purchase the more valuable option.