PublikDomain Posted February 3, 2022 Author Share Posted February 3, 2022 51 minutes ago, George_PPS said: Instead, BUFF WEAK WEAPONS AND FRAMES! Buff 120+ secondaries or nerf 1? Buff and rework 48 frames or nerf 1? Buff 170+ primaries or nerf 4? Buff 180+ melee or nerf 2? And what about all the other non-weapon damage things like Companions, Amps, Archguns/Archwings, Operators, turrets, parkour damage, stolen ships, weird mods, etc? Do you buff all that too? How much do you even buff them? What does that do to the rest of the game? Do you buff enemies too since you've just made them all much, much weaker? And if you buff enemies, then you're indirectly nerfing the dozen or so items you're trying to protect anyways. And what happens when a new more powerful item gets added in the future? Do you buff every other item again? That's a heck of an undertaking when there are so few items it's being done because of. Does anyone have the clip of Pablo saying the same kind of things? It was from an interview or something, maybe a Tennocon. I have need of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kontrollo Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 7 hours ago, PublikDomain said: Buff 120+ secondaries or nerf 1? Buff and rework 48 frames or nerf 1? Buff 170+ primaries or nerf 4? Buff 180+ melee or nerf 2? ... Well, it's been DE's strategy for a while now to buff more than they nerf. So I'm not surprised that this is seen as a reasonable request -- wouldn't even be if they were to go through with it. 😉 Just slap some more "attenuation" on top, I guess. Who needs game systems that make sense, anyway? 😄 Edit: In case it wasn't clear: /s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George_PPS Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 10 hours ago, PublikDomain said: Buff 120+ secondaries or nerf 1? Buff and rework 48 frames or nerf 1? Buff 170+ primaries or nerf 4? Buff 180+ melee or nerf 2? Why do you need ALL other items to be buffed and buffed to what level? Making them all the SAME? Terrible mentality. Just buff SOME at a time! This way everyone is happy! Or do you want your favorite items to be nerfed to the ground? Waframe lost a lot of player base because of suggestions like yours in the past! Never again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkduprey Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 il y a 17 minutes, George_PPS a dit : Waframe lost a lot of player base because of suggestions like yours in the past! Never again! Except Warframe also lose players over time because too powerfull weapons make the game too easy to the point of not being fun. Sure you could use the pathetic answer that "they just have to not use them" but that's ridiculous. It just shouldn't be possible in the first place and nobody wants to farm much more slowly than other players who chose the better option. Also being so hyperbolic doesn't help your argument. It doesn't have to be your "favorite" item and it doesn't have to be nerfed "to the ground" but just to an acceptable level of power. They shouldn't let gear that break the game balance untouched just because some teenagers unable to control themself would throw a tantrum and leave the game if you nerf their toys. That is more detrimental to the overall state of the game than it is helpful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nslay Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 3 minutes ago, Darkduprey said: Except Warframe also lose players over time because too powerfull weapons make the game too easy to the point of not being fun. Those players didn't try hard enough. There's a lot of weapons to actually build (and not just rank for mastery)... I started my Pseudo Newbie loadout yesterday. Excalibur Umbra with Braton Vandal, Lato Vandal, Prisma Skana and Taxon with Verglas (still debating using the garbage that is Artax). Tell me that doesn't sound fun! I guess Pseudo Newbie will use Odonata Prime with Imperator Vandal and Prisma Veratux. Trying not to use Operator... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George_PPS Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 19 minutes ago, Darkduprey said: Except Warframe also lose players over time because too powerfull weapons make the game too easy to the point of not being fun. Wrong. A lot of my friends all vets rage quite the game when the nerfing was at its peak during 2017-2020 period. Many came back due to buffs in 2021. Gaming at the end of the day is for fun and entertainment. People have real lives and people want to have fun playing games with their powerful weapons and play like gods. The last thing most people want are overly tough missions with nerfed gears. If you want tougher missions, why not nerf your own items or refer to this post? Best Solutions: Making the Game As Hard As Anyone Wishes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George_PPS Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 21 minutes ago, nslay said: Those players didn't try hard enough. There's a lot of weapons to actually build (and not just rank for mastery)... I started my Pseudo Newbie loadout yesterday. Excalibur Umbra with Braton Vandal, Lato Vandal, Prisma Skana and Taxon with Verglas (still debating using the garbage that is Artax). Tell me that doesn't sound fun! I guess Pseudo Newbie will use Odonata Prime with Imperator Vandal and Prisma Veratux. Trying not to use Operator... Agree 100%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
----Legacy---- Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 Just now, George_PPS said: Gaming at the end of the day is for fun and entertainment It's all fun and games until you're the player who wants to shoot at things, but someone else leaves nothing for others to shoot at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PublikDomain Posted February 3, 2022 Author Share Posted February 3, 2022 51 minutes ago, George_PPS said: Why do you need ALL other items to be buffed and buffed to what level? Making them all the SAME? Terrible mentality. Just buff SOME at a time! I mean you're the one saying we should buff all the weaker items. You tell me how much they should be buffed and to what level, and how many times and how often we need to go back and buff group after group after group of underperforming items. But let's say all the weapons were buffed (or nerfed) to be around the same strength... Why is that a bad thing? Is it really such a bad thing if every item in the game is actually worth using? Is it really that big of a problem if I can take my Talons or Paracyst into the same content dominated by Kuva weapons and actually be as effective*? 51 minutes ago, George_PPS said: This way everyone is happy! Sure, if you ignore everyone that wants to have anything other than hyper-easy-AFK-mode... 51 minutes ago, George_PPS said: Or do you want your favorite items to be nerfed to the ground? Yes. Khora deserves a 100% damage falloff. Nerf her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkduprey Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 il y a 21 minutes, George_PPS a dit : Wrong. A lot of my friends all vets rage quite the game when the nerfing was at its peak during 2017-2020 period. Many came back due to buffs in 2021. And how is that supposed to prove me wrong? Your friends are representative of the Warframe playerbase as a whole? Lol. You are a very casual player and most probably hang out with similar profil so they have the same expectations. That doesn't mean you represent the Warframe playerbase. I myself did quit the game a few times already because it was getting too easy and boring. Currently my entire friendlist of about 60 players is dead. If I were to use the same methods than you and consider that my friends represent Warframe as a whole then the game is dying. But I'm not saying that since I know my friendlist isn't representative of anything, just like yours. il y a 21 minutes, George_PPS a dit : Gaming at the end of the day is for fun and entertainment. People have real lives and people want to have fun playing games with their powerful weapons and play like gods. The last thing most people want are overly tough missions with nerfed gears. Yes exactly, it's for fun and entertainment. Except we all have our own vision of what fun and entertainment is about. Playing with powerful weapons and play like gods is mostly only fun for teenagers who rarely ever wants to use their brain. I am an adult and I like my entertainment to not be braindead. I mean when I want to stop thinking because I am tired of my day I have Netflix series for that. I don't play video games for that purpose. il y a 21 minutes, George_PPS a dit : If you want tougher missions, why not nerf your own items or refer to this post? Because your post is atrocious and just show how much you understand NOTHING about what people means when they ask for harder content. You are a casual gamer who have no idea what a difficult game or a difficult content is about. Fair enough, that's your own tastes and to each their own. But please don't try to explain to players who actually want that type of things what they should do, since you have zero idea what you are talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Ex0gamer0203 Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 I knew I was going to have to say farewell to my nukor eventually, but I'm still not ready :( Spoiler On the bright side I don't see the cycron anywhere... Spoiler yet... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nslay Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 1 hour ago, ----Legacy---- said: It's all fun and games until you're the player who wants to shoot at things, but someone else leaves nothing for others to shoot at. Yes! I know your pain! The future is mixed! You will become so good that you will just play everything solo to avoid this issue... all the while you only play solo in what should be a multiplayer game. For those rare occasions that you play in a team (e.g. fissures), you won't care anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePunkyReason Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 1 hour ago, George_PPS said: Wrong. A lot of my friends all vets rage quite the game when the nerfing was at its peak during 2017-2020 period. Many came back due to buffs in 2021. Gaming at the end of the day is for fun and entertainment. People have real lives and people want to have fun playing games with their powerful weapons and play like gods. The last thing most people want are overly tough missions with nerfed gears. If you want tougher missions, why not nerf your own items or refer to this post? Best Solutions: Making the Game As Hard As Anyone Wishes Every time I see this stupid idea floated I lose brain cells. Why can't any content be hard in Warframe? If you are a casual player who wants to stomp through missions, being unkillable and oneshotting rooms with no thought, congrats, DE has a literal entire game of content for you. God forbid players wanting to be engaged with their missions get any content at all. To understand how silly your "unequip your mods to enjoy the game 4head" point is, here is it in reverse: If you want missions were you feel like a god, just play level 5 missions with your fully modded loadouts. You'd be oneshotting everything millions of times over, have no fear of death at all, etc. You wouldn't even need to use a good frame for your abilities to get mileage. Just do that, don't complain about people who want a challenge. (read: I would never suggest this to people) Warframe has so many neat weapons, the current state of AoE means AoE is the only option. All of the good weapons feel samey. Back in the day the good weapons were across the different weapon types. You could use a great AR, Bow, thrown weapon etc. Now they are all generic explosives. Is that enjoyable to you? In order to make weapons compete with the shear power of AoE, they would all need to turn into generic AoE weapons. If their stats were tuned down so they couldn't take out heavy units effectively, balance could be restored, unfortunately they are just better in every conceivable way. This actually cuts down on weapon diversity. It is unhealthy for the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkduprey Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 Il y a 2 heures, nslay a dit : Those players didn't try hard enough. There's a lot of weapons to actually build (and not just rank for mastery)... I started my Pseudo Newbie loadout yesterday. Excalibur Umbra with Braton Vandal, Lato Vandal, Prisma Skana and Taxon with Verglas (still debating using the garbage that is Artax). Tell me that doesn't sound fun! I guess Pseudo Newbie will use Odonata Prime with Imperator Vandal and Prisma Veratux. Trying not to use Operator... Well I perfectly agree. You know my main Weapon is actually a Boltor Prime so it's not like I am a meta fanatic lol, far from it. The problem is that, basically, you HAVE to gimp yourself like that to find the challenge. I believe that in a properly designed game, we should be able to give our best, use the better options of our arsenal, and yet still have at least SOME content that gives us a challenge nonetheless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonsterOfMyOwn Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 There are some challenges, but it takes time and the missions aren't that rewarding. SP survival solo, corpus or infested, past 40min can become complicated due to the cheer amount of nullifiers / ancient disruptor + parasitic eximus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monolake Posted February 4, 2022 Share Posted February 4, 2022 On 2022-02-02 at 4:18 PM, (NSW)RATHURUE said: And there's Protea, which can infinitely sustain her Blaze Artillery and Xaku with their Grasp of Lohk. Both can produce aimbots that 'plays' the game for them, but somehow Wukong has to bear the cross of 'botting' when Wuclone would actually stop after 1 or 2 minutes of the player's inactivity. Those are still active abilities with only some degree of automation and limitation not bots, not great designs either for sure. Octavia is another 'game plays itself' frame and shes super boring for that matter but she still need way more player input than monkey bot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lutesque Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 On 2022-02-03 at 6:47 PM, Darkduprey said: Except Warframe also lose players over time because too powerfull weapons make the game too easy to the point of not being fun. Difficulty and Fun are two entirely Seperate Things.... Atleast for most people... On 2022-02-03 at 6:47 PM, Darkduprey said: Sure you could use the pathetic answer that "they just have to not use them" but that's ridiculous. It just shouldn't be possible in the first place and nobody wants to farm much more slowly than other players who chose the better option. Efficiency and Difficulty are also two entirely Seperate Things.... Besides.... What are you efficiently farming for if you already have all the Goodies ? 🤔 On 2022-02-03 at 6:47 PM, Darkduprey said: Also being so hyperbolic doesn't help your argument. It doesn't have to be your "favorite" item and it doesn't have to be nerfed "to the ground" but just to an acceptable level of power. An Occurrence that has never Happened in Warframe.... 👀 On 2022-02-03 at 6:47 PM, Darkduprey said: They shouldn't let gear that break the game balance untouched just because some teenagers unable to control themself would throw a tantrum and leave the game if you nerf their toys. That is more detrimental to the overall state of the game than it is helpful. The one who is Unable not to Abuse Meta Items starts preaching about Self Control....🤔 On 2022-02-03 at 6:55 PM, nslay said: Trying not to use Operator... I do this almost all the time.... Still waiting for That Client Side Spoiler Mode... 👀 On 2022-02-03 at 7:16 PM, George_PPS said: The last thing most people want are overly tough missions with nerfed gears. That Grendel Farm.... 😐 !!! On 2022-02-03 at 7:22 PM, PublikDomain said: But let's say all the weapons were buffed (or nerfed) to be around the same strength... Why is that a bad thing? Is it really such a bad thing if every item in the game is actually worth using? Is it really that big of a problem if I can take my Talons or Paracyst into the same content dominated by Kuva weapons and actually be as effective*? People think that "Same Power Level = No Variety" no matter how you explain it to them.... My guess is it honestly doesn't matter to them that the Rubico has entirely Different Mechanics compared to The Penta which has Entirely Different Mechanics to the Tenora.... If they are all equally Viable then they believe they are all the same weapon... 👀 On 2022-02-03 at 7:34 PM, Darkduprey said: I am an adult..... Debateble 🤨..... On 2022-02-03 at 7:34 PM, Darkduprey said: Because your post is atrocious and just show how much you understand NOTHING about what people means when they ask for harder content. But please don't try to explain to players who actually want that type of things what they should do, since you have zero idea what you are talking about. Obviously an Explanation is Required because it seems like there's a perfectly good Solution right There and you're not using it.... Look.... It's The Stug... Old Stuggy here has heard all about your Troubles and Is Confident in its Ability to Help... If you just give it a Chance... 😭 On 2022-02-03 at 9:08 PM, ThePunkyReason said: Why can't any content be hard in Warframe? Because this is is DE's Definition Of a Challenge: As long these guys Stay in The Game.... Il forever be against Any and All Suggestions for More Challenge.... On 2022-02-03 at 9:08 PM, ThePunkyReason said: If you are a casual player who wants to stomp through missions, being unkillable and oneshotting rooms with no thought, congrats, DE has a literal entire game of content for you. Casual Players don't do this... Casual Players use whatever they think looks cool... It's probably the Try Hards asking for more Challenge that are doing what you're describing here...👀 On 2022-02-03 at 9:08 PM, ThePunkyReason said: If you want missions were you feel like a god, just play level 5 missions with your fully modded loadouts. I already do.... Now give me Level 5 Eidolons, Orb Bosses and Arbitration Missions then Il never Bother you ever again... 😁 On 2022-02-03 at 9:08 PM, ThePunkyReason said: Now they are all generic explosives. Is that enjoyable to you? Ofcourse not.... But game difficulty and weapon popularity are two different Topics.... So which of these are you arguing about here ? 👀 On 2022-02-03 at 9:08 PM, ThePunkyReason said: In order to make weapons compete with the shear power of AoE, they would all need to turn into generic AoE weapons. If their stats were tuned down so they couldn't take out heavy units effectively, balance could be restored, unfortunately they are just better in every conceivable way. This actually cuts down on weapon diversity. It is unhealthy for the game. AoE isn't the Problem...lol ..... It's just a Symptom.... You're Remembering History all wrong if you think that Weapon Diversity Mattered before AoE weapons.... Before that The Meta was Melee... And Before That... It was AoE Nuking Warframe Abilities The Reason why Weapons were diverse was because they never mattered one way or another.... You were just going Meme Strike or Press 4 To Win anyway... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ On 2022-02-03 at 9:20 PM, Darkduprey said: You know my main Weapon is actually a Boltor Prime so it's not like I am a meta fanatic lol, far from it. The problem is that, basically, you HAVE to gimp yourself like that to find the challenge. There's the Lack of Self Control you spoke about Earlier... So you have the Tools to Actually make the game more Challenging and you claim to Actually like said tool.... But you lack the Self Control to literally Stick to your Guns.... There's nothing we can do for you, Tenno.... You're the only one in your own way of Getting what you want.... On 2022-02-03 at 9:20 PM, Darkduprey said: I believe that in a properly designed game, we should be able to give our best, use the better options of our arsenal, and yet still have at least SOME content that gives us a challenge nonetheless. Might I interest you in Abandoning this belief and just doing something Fun instead ? 🤔 Perhaps... Try The Stug.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George_PPS Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 On 2022-02-03 at 9:22 AM, PublikDomain said: I mean you're the one saying we should buff all the weaker items. You tell me how much they should be buffed and to what level, and how many times and how often we need to go back and buff group after group after group of underperforming items. But let's say all the weapons were buffed (or nerfed) to be around the same strength... Why is that a bad thing? Is it really such a bad thing if every item in the game is actually worth using? Is it really that big of a problem if I can take my Talons or Paracyst into the same content dominated by Kuva weapons and actually be as effective*? Sure, if you ignore everyone that wants to have anything other than hyper-easy-AFK-mode... Yes. Khora deserves a 100% damage falloff. Nerf her. So you want all weapons to be equal? That's not going to happen. In real life, 20/80 rules are everywhere. Equalization is how the world and games work. People and players want special and powerful items that are unlike anything else. If you want meaningful nerfs, NERF YOUR OWN GEARS with few mods. And list what you like the most and nerf them yourself too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PublikDomain Posted February 5, 2022 Author Share Posted February 5, 2022 6 hours ago, George_PPS said: So you want all weapons to be equal? Uh.......... Yeah. "WHat, you want all the guns to be worth using??????" Yeah. You don't? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)deathwolfclaw666 Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 Honestly I came expecting to be able to see how much I used Limbo, Oberon and Mag in relation to other frames in 2021. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PublikDomain Posted February 5, 2022 Author Share Posted February 5, 2022 Just now, (PSN)deathwolfclaw666 said: Honestly I came expecting to be able to see how much I used Limbo, Oberon and Mag in relation to other frames in 2021. They actually did something like that for last year's anniversary, look up Warframe Wayback. It's down now and didn't show much, but maybe they'll continue it this year too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PublikDomain Posted February 5, 2022 Author Share Posted February 5, 2022 Back to some stats real quick: Worth noting, the Kuva Bramma's decline only happened (and sharply) below MR28. MR29 was mostly unchanged, with MR30 actually seeing growth. Other declines include the Kuva Chakkhurr, which has been supplanted by better Kuva explosive weapons, along with many older single-target weapons - mainly snipers, the Soma Prime, and some shotguns. Many of these weapons are brand new, so it's not unexpected to see them here. Despite concerns with quest difficulty, the Naratuk saw growing usage from MR5 onwards: Note that this spike in usage comes from only a few weeks of data! Naratuk will undoubtedly continue to grow in 2022. And good on the Tiberon. Not sure what's going on in the lower MRs but that was a surprise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cute_moth.npc Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 On 2022-02-02 at 10:59 PM, PublikDomain said: Buff 120+ secondaries or nerf 1? Buff and rework 48 frames or nerf 1? Buff 170+ primaries or nerf 4? Buff 180+ melee or nerf 2? Buff them, then add a separate damage attenuation formula for each one, some with obscure rules favouring normally ineffective combinations, others with inconsistencies, and we will finally have the true final enemy faction revealed for all Tenno to unite against: MATH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PublikDomain Posted February 5, 2022 Author Share Posted February 5, 2022 And finally winners/losers for Secondaries: All four of the original secondary kitguns see decline. Kuva Brakk and Mara Detron make way for Tenet Detron. Pyrana Prime still hugely popular, but saw less use in lower MRs (MR13-25) despite growing usage above MR26. Athodai sees further loss due to being sent to the shadow realm Railjack drop tables after 2020's Tennocon, and some old Primes continue to fall out of relevance. The Nukor continues to grow. Not only is it the most popular secondary, it's the fastest-growing secondary. Epitaph also sees strong growth across all MRs. New Tenet secondaries grow, along with Akarius which sees some new usage in higher MRs. Sporelacer does well despite other secondary Kitguns doing poorly. New Primes and new weapons gain some popularity but are unlikely to retain it in 2022. *** An interesting trend I'm noticing across the winners/losers charts is that guns saw new weapons take the most growth, while with melee it was mostly older weapons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George_PPS Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 3 hours ago, PublikDomain said: Uh.......... Yeah. "WHat, you want all the guns to be worth using??????" Yeah. You don't? You want to have all weapons that have the same effectiveness/DPS across the board? Then what’s the meaning of progression? If I have the weapons that have the same effectiveness/DPS since MR0, what’s the point of progression? Making all things work the same is the worst idea ever in real life and in gaming. In reality, different players enjoy and use “different” weapons and frames during different levels of progression. It’s a good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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