Revert back Eximus before Angels of Zariman update

[NoelleAllogene]

They have went from "oh alright, most of them are slight annoyance" to "Every eximus is a Sephiroth level final boss". Seriously, remove the overguard mechanic, or greatly nerf it and let them get CC-ed even with overguard is up.

Nobody wants to play Warframe and gets a major roadblock because some goons with funky aura have mechanics that could bypass every single warframe's power.

[Kokokojo]

I find them cool.
Gives a reason to carrying 3 weapons.
If you are having issues with them, I recommend something that hits single-targets hard, and aim for the head. 

[Grommile]

Just now, (NSW)Kokojo said:

I find them cool.
Gives a reason to carrying 3 weapons.
If you are having issues with them, I recommend something that hits single-targets hard, and aim for the head. 

The pairing of Ignis Wraith and a decent melee weapon seems adequate for most Eximus-related situations outside of Sponge Path :)

[(XBOX)Darkskytzo]

i had 4 of my friends start to play warframe a week ago and now with the new eximus changes they said not playing that crap,because they get destroyed by them...i did a level 65-80 eximus stronghold defense for the sortie today and let me tell you.
FIX IT DE  i watched mr 30's and L1 get their asses handed to them, it's not fun to play anymore

[Kokokojo]

1 minute ago, Grommile said:

The pairing of Ignis Wraith and a decent melee weapon seems adequate for most Eximus-related situations outside of Sponge Path :)

Yep, I myself run either Pyrana Prime, Ambassador alt fire or focus Amprex on them

[NoelleAllogene]

7 minutes ago, (NSW)Kokojo said:

I find them cool.
Gives a reason to carrying 3 weapons.
If you are having issues with them, I recommend something that hits single-targets hard, and aim for the head. 

I think that's the problem. Eximus shouldn't be something that needs a specific weapon to kill. Yeah, I could use Paracesis and Ignis Wraith, but then, what's the point of using anything else because new Eximus mechanics make everything useless?

I mean come on, Eximus is not a boss, It's equivalent to aura enemies in Diablo 2. Yes, they are harder to kill. Yes, they are dangerous if you didn't kill them first. But You shouldn't change your whole gear just to kill an imp with aura power.

[(PSN)isbergen]

The new eximus units or ok except for 1) ability spamming -- they should have a cost to abilities just like Tenno -- it's especially bad with multiple units present. and 2) they should not be able to auto-target invisible frames (Ash, Loki, etc) unless those frames are actively attacking the eximus unit

[Drasiel]

8 minutes ago, NoelleAllogene said:

I think that's the problem. Eximus shouldn't be something that needs a specific weapon to kill.

It's not a boss, It's equivalent to aura enemies in Diablo 2.

Champions, but yes.

I think if bosses only have diminishing returns on cc and radiation only causes their own allies to attack them then eximus should work like that at least when overgaurd is still on them because they aren't supposed to be tougher than a literal boss. Their overguard is too tanky as well, it's far tougher to punch through the overguard than it is to kill the unit once it's gone which feels really jank.

[Kokokojo]

11 minutes ago, NoelleAllogene said:

I think that's the problem. Eximus shouldn't be something that needs a specific weapon to kill.

It's not a boss, It's equivalent to aura enemies in Diablo 2.

You got a Primary, a Secundary, and a Melee. Most meta set-ups prior to this update (that still works, curious no?) only requires a explosive weapon or a primer (AKA Kuva Nukor/ Epitaph) and a melee CO or gun CO. I storngly believe making one of them dedicated to heavy units is not a issue, it makes you actually think on what you bring.

14 minutes ago, (XBOX)Darkskytzo said:

i had 4 of my friends start to play warframe a week ago and now with the new eximus changes they said not playing that crap,because they get destroyed by them...i did a level 65-80 eximus stronghold defense for the sortie today and let me tell you.
FIX IT DE  i watched mr 30's and L1 get their asses handed to them, it's not fun to play anymore

MR ≠ skill.
You cannot just bomb rush the game anymore, just like you can't spin2win or Mesa/Ash 4 everything. The game changes, and I rather have some sort of difficulty that requires my attention rather than another "oh ok, how I make number go biggest?" and that's that. Most Exmus require you to keep moving or be hyper aggressive towards them, which is not that much to ask of a player.

 

[NoelleAllogene]

3 minutes ago, Drasiel said:

Champions, but yes.

I think if bosses only have diminishing returns on cc and radiation only causes their own allies to attack them then eximus should work like that at least when overgaurd is still on them because they aren't supposed to be tougher than a literal boss. Their overguard is too tanky as well, it's far tougher to punch through the overguard than it is to kill the unit once it's gone which feels really jank.

and their overguard is protect them form stealth kill.

[NoelleAllogene]

5 minutes ago, (NSW)Kokojo said:

You got a Primary, a Secundary, and a Melee. Most meta set-ups prior to this update (that still works, curious no?) only requires a explosive weapon or a primer (AKA Kuva Nukor/ Epitaph) and a melee CO or gun CO. I storngly believe making one of them dedicated to heavy units is not a issue, it makes you actually think on what you bring.

MR ≠ skill.
You cannot just bomb rush the game anymore, just like you can't spin2win or Mesa/Ash 4 everything. The game changes, and I rather have some sort of difficulty that requires my attention rather than another "oh ok, how I make number go biggest?" and that's that. Most Exmus require you to keep moving or be hyper aggressive towards them, which is not that much to ask of a player.

 

believe me, a mechanics that "makes you actually think on what you bring" will kill PVE game in the long run. When your mechanics limiting what works and what not, people will get bored.

I like bringing Tenora prime because it's a good all around gun. it's not Kuva Bramma, but it's hundred times looks and feels better to shoot. Isn't Warframe about "build what you like and bring whatever into mission"?

[Rawbeard]

14 minutes ago, (NSW)Kokojo said:

You cannot just bomb rush the game anymore,

yes, you can, what are you talking about?

[Jivy]

Nah, just remove overguard from the game and that will make it so much better

[Kokokojo]

2 minutes ago, NoelleAllogene said:

believe me, a mechanics that "makes you actually think on what you bring" will kill PVE game in the long run. When your mechanics limiting what works and what not, people will get bored.

I like bringing Tenora prime because it's a good all around gun. it's not Kuva Bramma, but it's hundred times looks and feels better to shoot. Isn't Warframe about "build what you like and bring whatever into mission"?

Yeah, but that rule is not followed by a major portion of players, as you can see on the most recent weapon usage stats.
Of course, I can't speak for you or point fingers at anyone, I'm just pointing stats.

[Kokokojo]

3 minutes ago, Rawbeard said:

yes, you can, what are you talking about?

Yeah, noticed I kinda contradicted myself there.

[Uhkretor]

... I 1-hit killed Eximus units before Angels of Zariman update... Now, I 1-hit kill Eximus units after Angels of Zariman update went live...

 

... How are they difficult, again?

[(XBOX)Darkskytzo]

9 hours ago, (NSW)Kokojo said:

You got a Primary, a Secundary, and a Melee. Most meta set-ups prior to this update (that still works, curious no?) only requires a explosive weapon or a primer (AKA Kuva Nukor/ Epitaph) and a melee CO or gun CO. I storngly believe making one of them dedicated to heavy units is not a issue, it makes you actually think on what you bring.

MR ≠ skill.
You cannot just bomb rush the game anymore, just like you can't spin2win or Mesa/Ash 4 everything. The game changes, and I rather have some sort of difficulty that requires my attention rather than another "oh ok, how I make number go biggest?" and that's that. Most Exmus require you to keep moving or be hyper aggressive towards them, which is not that much to ask of a player.

 

i get that but there's a big difference between fun to play and frustrating to play and alot of people cannot sit on this game for hrs on end and get everything you 'll need to advance faster or slower(however you wish)
i don't mind playing difficult games at all...i'm trying to get people into it and they want nothing of it, which sucks

[FAArscape]

Keep the audio/viasual stuffs from the update, but tone down the 'toughness' of them...

I mean, this is Warframe, not 'Dark Souls'..

[NyreenKandros]

IMO the new eximus mechanism need to be polished or revert as OP said.

There is similar thing called champions in Destiny 2 and they are better than current over-shielded eximus.

Each champions in Destiny 2 have one weakness so if player hit with such attack then the champions stuns for a seconds and weakened so player can get manage the situation but overshield eximus has nothing and somewhat their ranged abilities makes harder to find them in crowded and complex tile sets.

And as a Nyx player, I used to have mind controls to eximus now I can't do it anymore.

[(PSN)SandroTheDude]

I had zero problems with eximi, I actually find them interesting and not that challenging. But I have been playing for years, I'm well equiped I suppose...

Maybe just make them less common for lower level mission? So that they can actually considered a mini boss, until you have the gear to 1-shot them?

I don't think it's wrong to engage high level mission with good gear, It's better this way than the alternative "It doesn't really matters, enemies die fast anyway".

[(PSN)SandroTheDude]

On 2022-04-30 at 11:23 PM, NyreenKandros said:

IMO the new eximus mechanism need to be polished or revert as OP said.

There is similar thing called champions in Destiny 2 and they are better than current over-shielded eximus.

Each champions in Destiny 2 have one weakness so if player hit with such attack then the champions stuns for a seconds and weakened so player can get manage the situation but overshield eximus has nothing and somewhat their ranged abilities makes harder to find them in crowded and complex tile sets.

And as a Nyx player, I used to have mind controls to eximus now I can't do it anymore.

The Destiny Champions mechanics Is actually receving many critiques, for what I now: that system is way worse in forcing you into a specific setup, reducing wildly your freedom of chosing the gear you like.

Warframe eximi now require just high DPS, which for high level missions doesn't seem that wrong to me...

[Cephalon_Madrona]

I think the new eximus units are actively making certain things more difficult, namely Eximus Stronghold missions and the Mastery Rank 28 test, which I've failed 3 times already due to aura's stacking to the point of near invulnerability of the enemies. While they're fine to deal with in normal missions, as far as I've experienced, the new units are a pain to deal with in very specific places, and not even a fun one. The problem feels more circumstantial to me. 

[Velvatine]

Yeah, I'm with the "this kills the fun" crowd. It's fine to evolve the game, but this is pushing me out of content I used to enjoy, which means eventually walking away if this is the direction DE is taking. I've re-worked weapons, frames, etc. with new updates, but to have heavily invested options made obsolete because of "challenge?

[TheLexiConArtist]

DE pulled another Nullifier. Instead of looking at proper design of 'priority' / stand-out targets and selecting some strengths with counterbalancing constraints/weaknesses, they've just thrown everything on there and called it a day.

Consider that all of the following apply to the new Eximi:

1. Unpredictably spawning (+ without warning)
2. Non-restrictive spawn count
3. Highly* Threatening (weighted extra when there's a more vulnerable non-player entity for them to attack)
4. Uncontrollable
5. Highly* Survivable

(* relative to the encounter / other enemies at the level) 

Normally, generic 'priority' enemies will be designed choosing one of those latter three to omit, acting as the intended strategy:

• Uncontrollable + Survivable - Threatening = Defensive strategy (e.g. tank aggro, use healing/defensive buffs)
• Threatening + Survivable - Uncontrollable = Control strategy (CC to allow time to burn down the survivability)
• Uncontrollable + Threatening - Survivable = Offense strategy (DPS race, kill target before it kills you or objective)

Sometimes all three can be permitted as present, but only when the first two items in that list are also not in effect - i.e. a strictly controlled encounter - we have an example of this in Acolytes, and to an extent Disruption Demolysts fall into this as they're directly objective-threatening.

Eximi have all of them.

The only common 'priority' factor Eximi don't directly possess is "Must be neutralised within a strict/set time limit", although the way some of them can burn defense objectives / AI Operatives puts them pretty damn close to it sometimes.

[(PSN)AbBaNdOn_]

Yeah I hate the overshields...

They can also spam/cast abilities through walls/environment.  

I thought they were going to have huge bubbles around them to make them highly visible?   Instead they are dark red/blue/orange   atleast the shield guy is noticeable.