What was the goal of the eximus enemy rework?

[Marvelous_A]

It's to encourage the players to exploit AoE weapons if they didn't before the rework. Fewer weapons effective against Eximus=more OP AoE weapons rivens sold

[quxier]

49 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Use Magus Melt on your operator, which stacks up massive amounts of heat damage ontop of your normal void damage just by slinging. At max rank it stacks up to 210% bonus heat damage at 7 stacks.

That's, unless I'm missing something, 310% more damage from those 2 sources. That tells you how strong "base void" damage is against Overguard.

[SpawnOfMaahes]

I've read only a fraction of the patch notes so far, and I'm a new player, so my opinion/experience might not matter much.

Unless there's a bunch of them near me, I don't find these "eximus" to be a problem. They take a little longer to shoot down, but are easy with my mk1 bo.

When I completed the Kubrow quest, I got a Sunika. Her unleashed ability takes down "VIP targets", which includes those eximus. It's hilarious to witness.

[SneakyErvin]

2 hours ago, quxier said:

That's, unless I'm missing something, 310% more damage from those 2 sources. That tells you how strong "base void" damage is against Overguard.

So now you imply DE have claimed that operators should be strong right out the door without any progress versus Steel Path, Arbitration and Zariman bounty level enemies? Because below those levels you wreck with just an unbuffed amp. It isnt until you hit Zariman you might consider buffing up a couple of stacks of Melt and possibly activate Wisp. And at that point DE have already intended for the player to be geared.

Who in their right mind thinks DE would abandon the concept of progress to counter something intended to be more of a challenge to begin with? It is the whole reason for the rework of eximus and here you sit and complain that an unprogressed operator cannot deal with Zariman bounty+ levels of content. That is just beyond silly. All the tools are there for the player to build an operator that can handle overguard and mobs in general quite well at higher levels. It just happens to not be absurdly imbalanced like everything that has to do with frames and their weapons.

[quxier]

3 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

So now you imply DE have claimed that operators should be strong right out the door without any progress versus Steel Path, Arbitration and Zariman bounty level enemies?

I'm not implying anything.

Not strong but not "almost" useless. With Eximus rework some parts of Eximus units' attacks are avoidable. For example Energy Lich Eximus has blue bubble that grows slowly. You can see "blue thing" appears near you or sound. You can, for example, roll. There is no need for any mod or other item to do that.

For amps it's probably just gear check.

13 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Who in their right mind thinks DE would abandon the concept of progress to counter something intended to be more of a challenge to begin with? It is the whole reason for the rework of eximus and here you sit and complain that an unprogressed operator cannot deal with Zariman bounty+ levels of content. That is just beyond silly. All the tools are there for the player to build an operator that can handle overguard and mobs in general quite well at higher levels. It just happens to not be absurdly imbalanced like everything that has to do with frames and their weapons.

Progress is not only about items but about "ways" to do things as well. Sentients (mini spoiler for people that don't know anything about them):

Spoiler

Have damage reduction

You can simply damage them till they die. Or you can shoot them with void element (not sure if you need to proc void) or void sling them to remove damage damage adaptation.

That's changes game from simply "bigger number" to more complex game.

[SneakyErvin]

1 minute ago, quxier said:

I'm not implying anything.

Not strong but not "almost" useless. With Eximus rework some parts of Eximus units' attacks are avoidable. For example Energy Lich Eximus has blue bubble that grows slowly. You can see "blue thing" appears near you or sound. You can, for example, roll. There is no need for any mod or other item to do that.

For amps it's probably just gear check.

Progress is not only about items but about "ways" to do things as well. Sentients (mini spoiler for people that don't know anything about them):

  Reveal hidden contents

Have damage reduction

You can simply damage them till they die. Or you can shoot them with void element (not sure if you need to proc void) or void sling them to remove damage damage adaptation.

That's changes game from simply "bigger number" to more complex game.

But it isnt almost useless, if it was it would be impossible to use it in steel path to destroy overguard/eximus or even self ress. If it is useless to you then you need to progress your operator and invest in amps/schools/arcanes, simple as that. And why is this all of a sudden shifting into eximus ability use, that has jack squat to do with overguard, since those abilities have their own counters which has nothing to do with void kids, void damage or anything else.

I dont really see your point with sentients or what that has to do with overguard. It sounds more like you want an instant overguard removal option that requires nothing of you, when you already have two overguard removal options in your frame+weapon aswell as your operator if you bother with it. 

 

 

[quxier]

 

10 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

And why is this all of a sudden shifting into eximus ability use, that has jack squat to do with overguard, since those abilities have their own counters which has nothing to do with void kids, void damage or anything else.

It's to show that certain interactions can be done without using mods, arcanes etc.

12 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

I dont really see your point with sentients or what that has to do with overguard. It sounds more like you want an instant overguard removal option that requires nothing of you, when you already have two overguard removal options in your frame+weapon aswell as your operator if you bother with it. 

I don't want instant, complete remove of Overguard*. I just want my action in mission have real consequences rather than being simple "do I have enough damage?" check. Eximus & Sentient examples show how it can be done.

9 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

But it isnt almost useless, if it was it would be impossible to use it in steel path to destroy overguard/eximus or even self ress. If it is useless to you then you need to progress your operator and invest in amps/schools/arcanes, simple as that.

Try it with base amp then. No arcane nor School boost. That's 50% more damage to Overguard (afair) means very little. You are creating more damage other ways than with +50% damage. That's shows how other methods/items are strong rather than "+50% void damage to Overguard" change.

[(PSN)rexis12]

I gotta say:

"In order to reliably deal with these common enemies' mechanics with the Operator, you just need to fight two Overworld Grand Bosses multiple times over."

Is genuinely hilarious.

[SneakyErvin]

18 hours ago, quxier said:

 

It's to show that certain interactions can be done without using mods, arcanes etc.

I don't want instant, complete remove of Overguard*. I just want my action in mission have real consequences rather than being simple "do I have enough damage?" check. Eximus & Sentient examples show how it can be done.

Try it with base amp then. No arcane nor School boost. That's 50% more damage to Overguard (afair) means very little. You are creating more damage other ways than with +50% damage. That's shows how other methods/items are strong rather than "+50% void damage to Overguard" change.

So? Every fight still comes down to gear, avoiding attacks wont overcome an encounter. So your example/point is moot. And since there has never been any hint to operators taking care of overguard "modless" your comment has even less relation on the subject.

What consequences? Ignoring and capping our progress? That isnt a solution when the system already works.

Now you just prove my point. You dont want to progress, you want it directly handed to you, even though it would also result in progress having no meaning. Base amp means you havent invested anything yet, so obviously you should be at a drawback. Or do you magically 1HK overguard with your guns aswell if you leave them unmodded and go further up the levels in the game? 

We can already do what you ask but better thanks to allowing our investments in the operator to make a difference. We are also allowed to make operator builds thanks to this. What you suggest would just put restrictions in place and effectively punish people that find enjoyment in their operator.

Here is a solution, dont use the operator.

[RootyTootyAimAnShooty]

Seeing as people are still posting on this, I will say that there is one thing with this new system that seems to have no rhyme or reason to it at times, and that is the actual health of the overguard. I've been pottering around on Deimos for the last couple of days to get a necramech built and sometimes I come across an enemy with such a big overguard it makes me just go, "wtf? HOW?".

For example, this morning I did a quick endless run, I was on Gara and had a Corinth Prime that can one hit everything there at the level I was doing (aiming not withstanding). Maybe the occasional eximus will take a couple of shots, especially if I'm dodging about. But this is a gun I've used for Lich's and sorties in the last couple of weeks. It can definitely handle 70-100 content. But while in the middle of this run, with something like 75k on my splinter storm and using that gun I come across a mid-30's eximus that it just did almost nothing to. As in taking the tiniest little chunks out of the overshield, to the point where I went, "Screw this!", and threw hands.

If that's intended I don't see how in the world that's scaled well. Considering level 30-40 content is where you're sent for The Second Dream at, I think MR 5? I just don't see how you could expect someone to be laying down that sort of damage.

Obviously I completely accept it might be a glitch/bug, or some sort of connection issue, etc, a whole host of things. But if it's intended... that's a bit worrying. That thing was literally tanking more damage than eximus' I've encountered at twice (or more) that level.

[SneakyErvin]

4 minutes ago, RootyTootyAimAnShooty said:

Seeing as people are still posting on this, I will say that there is one thing with this new system that seems to have no rhyme or reason to it at times, and that is the actual health of the overguard. I've been pottering around on Deimos for the last couple of days to get a necramech built and sometimes I come across an enemy with such a big overguard it makes me just go, "wtf? HOW?".

For example, this morning I did a quick endless run, I was on Gara and had a Corinth Prime that can one hit everything there at the level I was doing (aiming not withstanding). Maybe the occasional eximus will take a couple of shots, especially if I'm dodging about. But this is a gun I've used for Lich's and sorties in the last couple of weeks. It can definitely handle 70-100 content. But while in the middle of this run, with something like 75k on my splinter storm and using that gun I come across a mid-30's eximus that it just did almost nothing to. As in taking the tiniest little chunks out of the overshield, to the point where I went, "Screw this!", and threw hands.

If that's intended I don't see how in the world that's scaled well. Considering level 30-40 content is where you're sent for The Second Dream at, I think MR 5? I just don't see how you could expect someone to be laying down that sort of damage.

Obviously I completely accept it might be a glitch/bug, or some sort of connection issue, etc, a whole host of things. But if it's intended... that's a bit worrying. That thing was literally tanking more damage than eximus' I've encountered at twice (or more) that level.

A question. Was it perhaps one of those infested with two weakpoint shoulders, the Saxum? I think their weakpoint mechanics protects overguard aswell much like how Nox works, which means you deal 80% less damage to it. Not sure if overguard also protects their weakpoints, so a damned if I do, damned if I dont situation.

[RootyTootyAimAnShooty]

12 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

A question. Was it perhaps one of those infested with two weakpoint shoulders, the Saxum? I think their weakpoint mechanics protects overguard aswell much like how Nox works, which means you deal 80% less damage to it. Not sure if overguard also protects their weakpoints, so a damned if I do, damned if I dont situation.

Nopers, just a regular ole charger eximus. Exactly the same as ones I'd been dropping the overshield of with one shot about 2 seconds before hand. That was what made me stop and go, "Wtf?", and actually remember it.

It's not like it happens often, but it has happened repeatedly to me. But it's quite possible it's a bug or glitch, but if not... wow. I mean, that's an order of magnitude, or more, of extra damage it was tanking.

[quxier]

53 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

So? Every fight still comes down to gear, avoiding attacks wont overcome an encounter.

If you don't avoid attack you get stunned and potentially killed. Sure, if you have enough power you can melt most stuffs but not everyone has that.

58 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

What consequences? Ignoring and capping our progress?

I don't mean capping or ignoring anything. I mean our actions do something and "system" react. You slap some damage mods, arcanes and other stuffs? You deal more damage. I proc void on Eximus unit? I remove Overguard for 1 second, for example. We can do stuffs different ways. People hated Glass boss fight because of that.

Quote

That isnt a solution when the system already works.

Solution works but it's very boring.

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

Now you just prove my point. You dont want to progress, you want it directly handed to you, even though it would also result in progress having no meaning. Base amp means you havent invested anything yet, so obviously you should be at a drawback. Or do you magically 1HK overguard with your guns aswell if you leave them unmodded and go further up the levels in the game? 

Ok, so you proved that you just care about bigger numbers and want game to be dumb. Fine.

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

We can already do what you ask but better thanks to allowing our investments in the operator to make a difference. We are also allowed to make operator builds thanks to this. What you suggest would just put restrictions in place and effectively punish people that find enjoyment in their operator.

What I suggest gives OPTIONS not RESTRICTIONS.

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

Here is a solution, dont use the operator.

Your favorite tool get some bug? Here is solution, just don't use it.

 

[SneakyErvin]

1 hour ago, quxier said:

If you don't avoid attack you get stunned and potentially killed. Sure, if you have enough power you can melt most stuffs but not everyone has that.

I don't mean capping or ignoring anything. I mean our actions do something and "system" react. You slap some damage mods, arcanes and other stuffs? You deal more damage. I proc void on Eximus unit? I remove Overguard for 1 second, for example. We can do stuffs different ways. People hated Glass boss fight because of that.

Solution works but it's very boring.

Ok, so you proved that you just care about bigger numbers and want game to be dumb. Fine.

What I suggest gives OPTIONS not RESTRICTIONS.

Your favorite tool get some bug? Here is solution, just don't use it.

So you can keep dodging with the operator that you deem weak and eventually kill the eximus by wittling it down. See, you dont have to improve your operator.

How does that not come down to damage in the end? You effectively remove overguard for that second, improving your damage equal to whatever the overguard added to the ehp of the enemy. It is just damage in a different way under a specific window of time.

Your's isnt exactly an improvement.

No I care about progression.

No it actually gives restrictions, because if I can currently remove Overguard with the amp attack aswell as chip off health, then you've suddenly gimped that part because now all the void damage does is remove the overguard during certain amount of time. Or do you suggest that all damage that would otherwise hit overguard will bleed through onto the health? Yeah that wouldnt be imbalanced at all! Or do you suggest a wonky, likely annoying to get bug free, combination?

This isnt a bug though, this is people unwilling to make use of tools that actually work. You and others being unwilling to invest in your operator is not a bug.

[csabixaHUN]

switch back to the old operator movement system, this new it's very bad in my opinion 

[quxier]

32 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

How does that not come down to damage in the end? You effectively remove overguard for that second, improving your damage equal to whatever the overguard added to the ehp of the enemy. It is just damage in a different way under a specific window of time.

It's not only about damage but how you use your tools.

39 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Your's isnt exactly an improvement.

At least it's something more than feature from idle game.

40 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

No I care about progression.

Then don't say I care about free ways to beat game....

41 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

No it actually gives restrictions, because if I can currently remove Overguard with the amp attack aswell as chip off health, then you've suddenly gimped that part because now all the void damage does is remove the overguard during certain amount of time. Or do you suggest that all damage that would otherwise hit overguard will bleed through onto the health? Yeah that wouldnt be imbalanced at all! Or do you suggest a wonky, likely annoying to get bug free, combination?

My solution might be buggy. However that's another topic.

That's still adds another option.

44 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

This isnt a bug though, this is people unwilling to make use of tools that actually work. You and others being unwilling to invest in your operator is not a bug.

It's not about whenever it's bug or not. It's about you not wanting to improve certain part of game because "it works". Whoever doesn't like it can just not use it. That's not how you improve games.

[SneakyErvin]

2 minutes ago, quxier said:

It's not about whenever it's bug or not. It's about you not wanting to improve certain part of game because "it works". Whoever doesn't like it can just not use it. That's not how you improve games.

But there is no improvement in it. You effectively add a wonky system that results in progression having no meaning at all, or ramping it up so progression wont be noticed until you get to a far higher point, making it feel pointless and at the worst a ceiling that will never allow you to utilize your progress. How fun is it to be handed things on a silver platter from the get go and not feeling the fruits of your labor until the very very end? Since that is practically what you suggest by adding a surefire overguard negation option to void damage as a whole, or amps in isolation.

Gradually improving your character is the appeal for most gamers, and that is how the operators, frames and weapons are set up as is. It gives a great feeling to sit down with the operator after previously having ignored it more or less, and tinker with it, improve it and build it to perform well both against enemies in general and overguard.

It doesnt only "work" now, it works well since we have all the tools at our disposal that we need, and it allows for build options. Do you want your operator to be a support, do you want it to be a damage dealer, do you want it for survival? All with benefits and drawbacks that make those choices important and unique.

[Hayrack]

Good weapon modding outdamages Void whatever against Overguard much earlier than Operator with his amps, so... yeah...

[EMPTY-d]

I too find this rework confusing.

Instead of encouraging players to try different warframes, different abilities, operators and so on, eximus rework actually make the game more boring,

They are now immune to controls - so they can kill any control focused warframes in seconds, and naturally, I won't use any of these anymore. Specifically Limbo, hell eximus can kill limbo right through his rift! As I remembered right, it took life-long calculation and extreme risk to simply pass through the rift, why and why are eximus simply capable of ingoring it?

They are much harder to kill - so I will turn to weapons with more DPS, there are only few such weapon, so I will abandon most useless "toys", they really only worth toys now.

They are more vulnerable to void damage - totally meaningless, operator weapons are weak, too weak to do enough damgae, so I am forced to bring xaku all the time.

So what is the point of this rework at all? Just simply make the game more difficult and players more unhappy?

"Hey guys we think warframe is too easy a game and we've decided to make it harder! Cheers! "

[RootyTootyAimAnShooty]

2 hours ago, EMPTY-d said:

So what is the point of this rework at all? Just simply make the game more difficult and players more unhappy?

"Hey guys we think warframe is too easy a game and we've decided to make it harder! Cheers! "

From what I've been reading on this forum, one of the major replies to sentiments like this is, "Nothing in Warframe is hard". So I can only assume I'm a really crap player at Warframe, because I find a lot of the content overwhelming. Not the difficulty of the enemies, I'm perfectly capable of getting through things, but I find the sheer amount of things on the screen and to keep track of really too much stimuli to handle a lot of the time, which translates into frustration and burnout. I'm finding this current iteration of the game one of the worst for that situation. I'm noticing it at even mid-level content that I just get completely overwhelmed by the amount of stimuli on the screen at one time, which is why I've never really tried to go beyond sorties.

It's funny though, because shooter-looters is one of my game genres I enjoy the most. Maybe it's because I'm ADD as all hell and it's really easy for me to over-focus on one thing and not pay attention. Maybe I just need to git gud, but at pushing 40 with RSI in both hands there's only so much git-gud I've got in me.

It feels very much like when in MMOs they release a new bit of content and the current meta chasers power through it super fast. So their response is to nerf the drop rates, which makes it nigh on impossible for casual players, even those that regularly play through end game content, to get the new gear that the meta chasers have already farmed.

[(XBOX)AMONGTHEWEAK]

12 minutes ago, RootyTootyAimAnShooty said:

From what I've been reading on this forum, one of the major replies to sentiments like this is, "Nothing in Warframe is hard". So I can only assume I'm a really crap player at Warframe, because I find a lot of the content overwhelming. Not the difficulty of the enemies, I'm perfectly capable of getting through things, but I find the sheer amount of things on the screen and to keep track of really too much stimuli to handle a lot of the time, which translates into frustration and burnout. I'm finding this current iteration of the game one of the worst for that situation. I'm noticing it at even mid-level content that I just get completely overwhelmed by the amount of stimuli on the screen at one time, which is why I've never really tried to go beyond sorties.

It's funny though, because shooter-looters is one of my game genres I enjoy the most. Maybe it's because I'm ADD as all hell and it's really easy for me to over-focus on one thing and not pay attention. Maybe I just need to git gud, but at pushing 40 with RSI in both hands there's only so much git-gud I've got in me.

It feels very much like when in other MMOs they release a new bit of content and the current meta chasers power through it super fast. So their response is to nerf the drop rates, which makes it nigh on impossible for casual players, even those that regularly play through end game content, to get the new gear that the meta chasers have already farmed.

No need to “git gud” just “tell’em your shot!, ask them if they validate!”

 

 

[(PSN)Yggranya]

On 2022-05-24 at 5:09 PM, SpawnOfMaahes said:

I've read only a fraction of the patch notes so far, and I'm a new player, so my opinion/experience might not matter much.

Unless there's a bunch of them near me, I don't find these "eximus" to be a problem. They take a little longer to shoot down, but are easy with my mk1 bo.

When I completed the Kubrow quest, I got a Sunika. Her unleashed ability takes down "VIP targets", which includes those eximus. It's hilarious to witness.

Heh, wait till you haplessly turn around a corner and get a face full of fire AoE. Not instant death thanks to shield gating, but that's just there so you can register yourself burning to death before that last gasp.

[RootyTootyAimAnShooty]

I do. They just tell me to go home Grandpa, and we don't validate mobility scooters. ☹️