Please rework Frost, its been 9 years

[bonamb]

Hi! I've been around since 2013 and I've played Frost since then. At the time of writing this, Frost prime is my most used frame at 16.1% of a 5000 hour playtime. The last major update Frost received was in 2015 where Frost's current abilities were given slightly more utility, and before that an update to his snowglobe in 2014, tying it to his armour. There have been no major updates to Frost's abilities since 2015 - 7 years ago. I'd like to detail a few issues with Frost as he currently is, 9 years after release, with zero stat changes or major reworks since then, and also offer some suggestions. 

1) His Stats

Frost was originally a tank frame, or at least tanker than most. His high shields and (at the time) above average armour let him sustain more damage than other frames. The original warframe profile from 2013 (https://youtu.be/tecVALgPOFg) says that he is "Heavily armoured and a master of sub-zero temperatures". 

This is no longer the case. 

Based off Frost Prime, and including other primes, he has the joint 26th highest health in the game, and the joint 13th highest armour in the game. Frames that have higher health than him include: Mesa, Ash, Khora, Saryn & Zephyr. Hell, Sevagoth's shadow has higher health and armour totals. 

He has the 6th highest shields in the game, too high to effectively shield gate with. 

He has the joint lowest energy in the game, barring Hyldrin and Lavos. He is not a caster frame. 

Just looking at these stats, you would assume Frost to be a shield based frame, much like Harrow, who can use and benefit from their shields with their abilities, and restore shields with ease. 

 

2) His Abilities

Passive: "Any melee assailant that strikes Frost has a 10% chance to be temporarily frozen for 20 seconds on impact."

-At higher levels (i.e. the base missions of the steel path), if an enemy strikes Frost, Frost is dead.

Augment: Biting Frost "Biting Frost is a Warframe Augment Mod for Frost's passive, gaining increased Critical Chance and Critical Damage on frozen enemies."

-Only two of Frosts abilities freeze enemies, and you cannot freeze bosses, acolytes, void angels or anything else of that kind. You cannot obtain the freeze effect elsewhere, and given how difficult Frost is to mod it is difficult to justify this (bandaid) augment's inclusion. 

Abilities:

Freeze. Single target, low damage, freezes and inflicts cold status chance. 

Ice Wave. AOE damage that scales linearly off strength and falls off very quickly above level 50. Probably the most useless ability in the game. 

Snow Globe: Frost's most useful ability. Scales off strength and armour. Again, Frost has the joint 13th highest armour in the game, with low health, but very high shields. This does not make sense. 

Avalanche.  Limited range AOE damage and CC that deals reasonable damage that does not scale to higher levels, and strips armour up to 100% when at 250% power strength.

 

None of his abilities synergize with each other. Any synergy comes from the augment Biting Frost, which as will be discussed, is difficult to fit on Frost. There are countless examples of frames where their abilities feed into each other, but the first example that comes to mind would be Ember - herself having received a massive rework not too long ago (relatively). It would not be hyperbole to say that every single one of her abilities feeds into, and affects her other abilities, along with her passive as well which makes her incredibly fun to play. Another frame that does this extremely well is Gyre. 

 

3) Modding Frost

At this time, Frost simply does not make sense to mod. 

He has very high shields, but average health and armour. 

 His third ability scales off his strength and armour, so you need to increase your armour value for that which is less effective for protecting you as it otherwise would be, as Frost does not have particularly high health. 

You cannot use Blind Rage to increase your Strength to 250%, or the lack of duration from Fleeting Expertise will render your avalanche and freeze duration almost useless. 

You cannot have the low efficiency from Blind Rage alone as Frost has the lowest possible energy total in the game, barring Hildryn or Lavos, and you need to be able to cast your Snowglobe multiple times for it to even last a few seconds on the steel path. 

You need multiple health and armour mods to have Frost be even slightly survivable on the steel path. This takes up any room you would have needed for any quality of life mods, range mods, or augments. 

 

Summary

Frost is an old, old frame. His stats have not changed since 2013, and in with conjunction with his also extremely dated abilities they just don't make any sense. Hell, even his asthetic is very obviously dated, for both is prime and his base frame. Newer primes (i.e. gara, atlas etc) are truly beautiful and a joy to fashionframe, but Frost often actively makes it difficult. He desperately needs a rework - I was truly startled when it was mentioned that both Mag and Excalibur would both be receiving a rework at tennocon, when both of these frames have already been the beneficiary of a full rework in the past! Frosts entire kit is far, far older, and needs looking at from the ground up, the same way limbo was reworked a few years back. 

 

Potential Solutions:

-Heavily rework Frost. Make his abilities synergize with each other the same way so many newer frames do. It'd be very easy to do - he has just 1 theme, not multiple competing ones.  

-Make cold damage his thing. If an enemy is affected by cold procs, maybe they are the recipient of a passive that increases damage (or critical chance and critical damage) with the number of cold procs on the target! Perhaps for each enemy that is within X radius of Frost he gains an armour boost! 

-Make Frost unique, and have his armour apply to his shields. Possibly have an ability that restores shields too. This would make the most sense, and require the fewest stat changes. It would also synergize with either or both of the above changes. 

-Maybe make his snowglobe, or other abilities, scale (at least partially) off his shields, or maybe he could use them as a source of power. I do love having a weirdly large amount of shields for a tank frame, I'd just love for them to be useful! 

QoL changes I would like to see:

-A total health counter for Frost's snowglobe, the same way iron skin has a health counter - big numbers are fun, and it makes it easier to estimate how long it has left, instead of just a flat percentage that could represent multiple values depending on where you are in the mission.  

-Multiple of these counters if you have multiple snowglobes. Perhaps display a subtle effect on one when you are looking at the relevant snowglobe

 

Thanks for having a read of this sorta-essay. I've got a lot of thoughts on the topic of Frost and old frames, and if anybody would like to know more or has any questions I'd be happy to explain! If any DE staff are reading this, please consider it - I've always loved Frost but by heck he needs an update! 

 

[Leqesai]

"We at Digital Extremes have heard your concerns regarding one of the Warframes most in need of improvement. In response we will be buffing Mag and Excalibur. Have a nice day."

[RazerXPrime]

That black is an absolute joy to read in dark mode.

I tend to only use his globe and his 4th ability. Maybe use the first one to break the globe if it's placed wrong or I don't want it anymore. I use hte crit damage mod for his 4th. Works well at almost any level. Could he be better? Yes. Does he do the job? Yes.

I think it'd be neat if that snowglobe thingy was movable or be made to attach to something.

[gamingchair1121]

keep the text color consistent

[bonamb]

37 minutes ago, RazerXPrime said:

That black is an absolute joy to read in dark mode.

I tend to only use his globe and his 4th ability. Maybe use the first one to break the globe if it's placed wrong or I don't want it anymore. I use hte crit damage mod for his 4th. Works well at almost any level. Could he be better? Yes. Does he do the job? Yes.

I think it'd be neat if that snowglobe thingy was movable or be made to attach to something.

He does the job until steel path, where he really just starts falling off. He's workable in several missions - excavations, defences, mobile defences etc, but he really is just a one / one and 1/2 ability frame when compared to other more modern ones. I'd mostly just want his abilities to work together, and for his stats to make sense, thats all! 

23 minutes ago, gamingchair1121 said:

keep the text color consistent

Sorry lads it looks fine to me in light mode, I'll edit it a wee bit! 

[RazerXPrime]

26 minutes ago, bonamb said:

He does the job until steel path, where he really just starts falling off. He's workable in several missions - excavations, defences, mobile defences etc, but he really is just a one / one and 1/2 ability frame when compared to other more modern ones. I'd mostly just want his abilities to work together, and for his stats to make sense, thats all! 

Sorry lads it looks fine to me in light mode, I'll edit it a wee bit! 

Thanks for the edit. 

Regarding his abilities in Steel Path, I think it'd be good if there was some scaling, but this goes for a lot of frames. But snowglone already has that in a way with the absorbtion of enemy fire during the invulnerability stage.

[PollexMessier]

Frost is more than playable right now which is more than you can say for a lot of other frames.

But He could use a few changes.

One I would really like to see is being able to collapse his globe around himself into an ice armor on hold. Gives him a way to remove his globes without requiring his 1 which is otherwise an absolutely worthless ability that everyone would subsume out if not for it's one mandatory function of being able to remove his globe which is only necessary because it blocks allied bullets from outside which it really shouldn't do in the first place.

Speaking of which... get rid of that downside. Not being able to shoot through the globe from outside is infuriating. Allied ice eximus and sisters also have this issue with their mobile globes which should also be dealt with.

Cap the range of his globe because it's really annoying that having range on it is detrimental while his 4 severely benefits from it. Maybe have his 3 and 4 synergize where enemies inside the globe take a lot more damage from his 4 or something. Maybe all ice damage inside his globe is buffed. Or maybe hold 4 shatters the globe if cast from inside it (Hold because we dont want people accidentally shattering it) and any damage the globe's absorbed is added to his 4.

Maybe buff mele damage to frozen enemies like how cold works in borderlands

[Arcticblizzard]

15 hours ago, bonamb said:

Hi! I've been around since 2013 and I've played Frost since then. At the time of writing this, Frost prime is my most used frame at 16.1% of a 5000 hour playtime. The last major update Frost received was in 2015 where Frost's current abilities were given slightly more utility, and before that an update to his snowglobe in 2014, tying it to his armour. There have been no major updates to Frost's abilities since 2015 - 7 years ago. I'd like to detail a few issues with Frost as he currently is, 9 years after release, with zero stat changes or major reworks since then, and also offer some suggestions. 

1) His Stats

Frost was originally a tank frame, or at least tanker than most. His high shields and (at the time) above average armour let him sustain more damage than other frames. The original warframe profile from 2013 (https://youtu.be/tecVALgPOFg) says that he is "Heavily armoured and a master of sub-zero temperatures". 

This is no longer the case. 

Based off Frost Prime, and including other primes, he has the joint 26th highest health in the game, and the joint 13th highest armour in the game. Frames that have higher health than him include: Mesa, Ash, Khora, Saryn & Zephyr. Hell, Sevagoth's shadow has higher health and armour totals. 

He has the 6th highest shields in the game, too high to effectively shield gate with. 

He has the joint lowest energy in the game, barring Hyldrin and Lavos. He is not a caster frame. 

Just looking at these stats, you would assume Frost to be a shield based frame, much like Harrow, who can use and benefit from their shields with their abilities, and restore shields with ease. 

 

2) His Abilities

Passive: "Any melee assailant that strikes Frost has a 10% chance to be temporarily frozen for 20 seconds on impact."

-At higher levels (i.e. the base missions of the steel path), if an enemy strikes Frost, Frost is dead.

Augment: Biting Frost "Biting Frost is a Warframe Augment Mod for Frost's passive, gaining increased Critical Chance and Critical Damage on frozen enemies."

-Only two of Frosts abilities freeze enemies, and you cannot freeze bosses, acolytes, void angels or anything else of that kind. You cannot obtain the freeze effect elsewhere, and given how difficult Frost is to mod it is difficult to justify this (bandaid) augment's inclusion. 

Abilities:

Freeze. Single target, low damage, freezes and inflicts cold status chance. 

Ice Wave. AOE damage that scales linearly off strength and falls off very quickly above level 50. Probably the most useless ability in the game. 

Snow Globe: Frost's most useful ability. Scales off strength and armour. Again, Frost has the joint 13th highest armour in the game, with low health, but very high shields. This does not make sense. 

Avalanche.  Limited range AOE damage and CC that deals reasonable damage that does not scale to higher levels, and strips armour up to 100% when at 250% power strength.

 

None of his abilities synergize with each other. Any synergy comes from the augment Biting Frost, which as will be discussed, is difficult to fit on Frost. There are countless examples of frames where their abilities feed into each other, but the first example that comes to mind would be Ember - herself having received a massive rework not too long ago (relatively). It would not be hyperbole to say that every single one of her abilities feeds into, and affects her other abilities, along with her passive as well which makes her incredibly fun to play. Another frame that does this extremely well is Gyre. 

 

3) Modding Frost

At this time, Frost simply does not make sense to mod. 

He has very high shields, but average health and armour. 

 His third ability scales off his strength and armour, so you need to increase your armour value for that which is less effective for protecting you as it otherwise would be, as Frost does not have particularly high health. 

You cannot use Blind Rage to increase your Strength to 250%, or the lack of duration from Fleeting Expertise will render your avalanche and freeze duration almost useless. 

You cannot have the low efficiency from Blind Rage alone as Frost has the lowest possible energy total in the game, barring Hildryn or Lavos, and you need to be able to cast your Snowglobe multiple times for it to even last a few seconds on the steel path. 

You need multiple health and armour mods to have Frost be even slightly survivable on the steel path. This takes up any room you would have needed for any quality of life mods, range mods, or augments. 

 

Summary

Frost is an old, old frame. His stats have not changed since 2013, and in with conjunction with his also extremely dated abilities they just don't make any sense. Hell, even his asthetic is very obviously dated, for both is prime and his base frame. Newer primes (i.e. gara, atlas etc) are truly beautiful and a joy to fashionframe, but Frost often actively makes it difficult. He desperately needs a rework - I was truly startled when it was mentioned that both Mag and Excalibur would both be receiving a rework at tennocon, when both of these frames have already been the beneficiary of a full rework in the past! Frosts entire kit is far, far older, and needs looking at from the ground up, the same way limbo was reworked a few years back. 

 

Potential Solutions:

-Heavily rework Frost. Make his abilities synergize with each other the same way so many newer frames do. It'd be very easy to do - he has just 1 theme, not multiple competing ones.  

-Make cold damage his thing. If an enemy is affected by cold procs, maybe they are the recipient of a passive that increases damage (or critical chance and critical damage) with the number of cold procs on the target! Perhaps for each enemy that is within X radius of Frost he gains an armour boost! 

-Make Frost unique, and have his armour apply to his shields. Possibly have an ability that restores shields too. This would make the most sense, and require the fewest stat changes. It would also synergize with either or both of the above changes. 

-Maybe make his snowglobe, or other abilities, scale (at least partially) off his shields, or maybe he could use them as a source of power. I do love having a weirdly large amount of shields for a tank frame, I'd just love for them to be useful! 

QoL changes I would like to see:

-A total health counter for Frost's snowglobe, the same way iron skin has a health counter - big numbers are fun, and it makes it easier to estimate how long it has left, instead of just a flat percentage that could represent multiple values depending on where you are in the mission.  

-Multiple of these counters if you have multiple snowglobes. Perhaps display a subtle effect on one when you are looking at the relevant snowglobe

 

Thanks for having a read of this sorta-essay. I've got a lot of thoughts on the topic of Frost and old frames, and if anybody would like to know more or has any questions I'd be happy to explain! If any DE staff are reading this, please consider it - I've always loved Frost but by heck he needs an update! 

 

I may not agree with the specific fixes you suggested, but I do hope DE makes Frost the 3rd after Mag and Excalibur. Yes, he can function, but he requires a lot of high pase skill to keep alive in SP. Like most of the old old frames, Frost was made to work with a team and he had his job. He was not built well for self sufficiency.

[bonamb]

19 hours ago, RazerXPrime said:

Thanks for the edit. 

Regarding his abilities in Steel Path, I think it'd be good if there was some scaling, but this goes for a lot of frames. But snowglone already has that in a way with the absorbtion of enemy fire during the invulnerability stage.

That's unfortunately his only ability that actually scales even slightly, and even then it needs some work. None of the others do, and to get Avalanche to work at 100% armour strip you need 250% power strength which makes modding him a pain. His second ability is literally just flat damage that falls off at around level 50 - great 9 years ago when missions didn't go much higher than that! Less so now. Hell, its even his helminth ability - we havn't seen stats for most used helminth abilities yet but I'd be willing to bet that that is one of the least used!

 

17 hours ago, PollexMessier said:

Frost is more than playable right now which is more than you can say for a lot of other frames.

But He could use a few changes.

One I would really like to see is being able to collapse his globe around himself into an ice armor on hold. Gives him a way to remove his globes without requiring his 1 which is otherwise an absolutely worthless ability that everyone would subsume out if not for it's one mandatory function of being able to remove his globe which is only necessary because it blocks allied bullets from outside which it really shouldn't do in the first place.

Speaking of which... get rid of that downside. Not being able to shoot through the globe from outside is infuriating. Allied ice eximus and sisters also have this issue with their mobile globes which should also be dealt with.

Cap the range of his globe because it's really annoying that having range on it is detrimental while his 4 severely benefits from it. Maybe have his 3 and 4 synergize where enemies inside the globe take a lot more damage from his 4 or something. Maybe all ice damage inside his globe is buffed. Or maybe hold 4 shatters the globe if cast from inside it (Hold because we dont want people accidentally shattering it) and any damage the globe's absorbed is added to his 4.

Maybe buff mele damage to frozen enemies like how cold works in borderlands

In regards to the first line, when somebody tells you their house is on fire and u go "same" it doesn't help the problem lol. I wrote the OP cause Frost is desperately in need of updating, not because other far more recent frames maybe needed it as well! He currently only has one ability that is very useful at higher levels, and 1 ability that is difficult to mod for but can be somewhat used. In regards to your suggestions, I'm not sure about turning his third into armour - snowglobe is the actually useful ability that people still play him for. However I do agree that his first ability isnt great - and being able to shoot through his snowglobe like gara's wall would be unbelievably handy.

In regards to synergy, I put some ideas in the original post, but here are some more:
-Frost's weapons / abilities do more damage / have a higher power strength versus enemies already afflicted with cold status. This would encourage the use of cold-based weapons over the current meta, and give his abilities that can inflict cold status a better chance at doing stuff - even better if they updated his second to inflict cold status! 
-Dealing more damage to enemies already within the snowglobe would be a lot of fun - really give him the king of the castle vibe. If the snowglobe inflicted cold status by default that'd tie in with the above suggestion, or the suggestions in my OP! 

 

7 hours ago, Arcticblizzard said:

I may not agree with the specific fixes you suggested, but I do hope DE makes Frost the 3rd after Mag and Excalibur. Yes, he can function, but he requires a lot of high pase skill to keep alive in SP. Like most of the old old frames, Frost was made to work with a team and he had his job. He was not built well for self sufficiency.

I've actually had to switch off from Frost being my main for the last 1500 hours or so, because he simply can't survive any more on steel path or similar missions as a frame like Atlas can. It's a genuine pain as I've enjoyed playing him all throughout warframe - his bubble is a thing of beauty and I've always liked being able to support my team or protect lower ranked players - its just he's fallen off massively because of his age and desperately needs an update! 

My suggestions were just suggestions more than anything else - I've got plenty and earlier in this here post I actually mention more. He honestly requires some kinda synergy between his abilities like so many of the other more modern frames, as right now he has none - his whole theme is literally cold, and there's no other frame that does cold stuff in the same way! There's so much room to work with! 

[(PSN)chris1pat8twins]

3 minutes ago, bonamb said:

That's unfortunately his only ability that actually scales even slightly, and even then it needs some work. None of the others do, and to get Avalanche to work at 100% armour strip you need 250% power strength which makes modding him a pain. His second ability is literally just flat damage that falls off at around level 50 - great 9 years ago when missions didn't go much higher than that! Less so now. Hell, its even his helminth ability - we havn't seen stats for most used helminth abilities yet but I'd be willing to bet that that is one of the least used!

 

In regards to the first line, when somebody tells you their house is on fire and u go "same" it doesn't help the problem lol. I wrote the OP cause Frost is desperately in need of updating, not because other far more recent frames maybe needed it as well! He currently only has one ability that is very useful at higher levels, and 1 ability that is difficult to mod for but can be somewhat used. In regards to your suggestions, I'm not sure about turning his third into armour - snowglobe is the actually useful ability that people still play him for. However I do agree that his first ability isnt great - and being able to shoot through his snowglobe like gara's wall would be unbelievably handy.

In regards to synergy, I put some ideas in the original post, but here are some more:
-Frost's weapons / abilities do more damage / have a higher power strength versus enemies already afflicted with cold status. This would encourage the use of cold-based weapons over the current meta, and give his abilities that can inflict cold status a better chance at doing stuff - even better if they updated his second to inflict cold status! 
-Dealing more damage to enemies already within the snowglobe would be a lot of fun - really give him the king of the castle vibe. If the snowglobe inflicted cold status by default that'd tie in with the above suggestion, or the suggestions in my OP! 

 

I've actually had to switch off from Frost being my main for the last 1500 hours or so, because he simply can't survive any more on steel path or similar missions as a frame like Atlas can. It's a genuine pain as I've enjoyed playing him all throughout warframe - his bubble is a thing of beauty and I've always liked being able to support my team or protect lower ranked players - its just he's fallen off massively because of his age and desperately needs an update! 

My suggestions were just suggestions more than anything else - I've got plenty and earlier in this here post I actually mention more. He honestly requires some kinda synergy between his abilities like so many of the other more modern frames, as right now he has none - his whole theme is literally cold, and there's no other frame that does cold stuff in the same way! There's so much room to work with! 

I feel he needs more synergy with his abilities. For starters I feel that he shouldn’t be affected by cold status. And he could slide across icy paths. Part of his passive.

For his first ability, I feel double freezing an enemy should freeze them solid and solid enemies should be extra vulnerable to impact damage. Could be charged for instant solid freezing. 
 

Second ability I feel should freeze the ground and cause enemies to slip and fall, making them vulnerable to mercies.

 

His Snowglobe should have more use than just defense at this point. Maybe if the second ability is used on it, it causes spikes to pierce the enemies. We should definitely see a health status of it as well, not just percentage. Enemies inside when it explodes should receive more damage and be frozen solid. 
 

His fourth should be enhanced a little. Requiring 250% for armor strip makes it hard to use on enemies who can one shot you and love to keep their distance. 
 

Sometimes I wish MR or polarizing a frame could lead to stat build up. Not a super lot but enough to be noticeable and useful. Encourage people to want to do more. Or add some kind of new Steel Path mods that give the same stats as other mods, but come with a buff during steel path missions. And they can only drop in specific steel path missions from specific enemies. 

[PollexMessier]

2 hours ago, bonamb said:

He currently only has one ability that is very useful at higher levels, and 1 ability that is difficult to mod for but can be somewhat used.

His 3 is hands down his best ability and his 4 is a good cc and armor strip. The biggest issue is that range is detrimental to his 3. But both are great and important abilities for him. Casting his 4 regularly keeps his 3 alive longer because enemies aren't shooting at it. Granted his 4 does kindof need range, duration, AND power to be at it's most effective. But I have pitiful duration on him and it still CCs pretty well as long as you're casting it frequently. I haven't tried him after the eximus changes. But prior to that he was a hell of a lot better than people were giving him credit for. You could easily run steel path defense with him and have no issues.

 

2 hours ago, bonamb said:

I'm not sure about turning his third into armour - snowglobe is the actually useful ability that people still play him for.

I'm not suggesting you replace his globe with armor. I'm suggesting adding a secondary function to it where frost can effectively take a globe he's set and wrap it around himself like armor. Visually and thematically fun. Gives frost DR he sorely needs, and replaces his 1's function of deleting globes while actually giving you something for doing it. Basically the ability to pick his globe up but instead of walking around with it like ice eximus it conforms to his body.

Tho if allies could shoot through it. Just being able to pick it up and move around with it isn't really bad.

Maybe be able to control his globe's size like you can with mass vitrify so high range doesn't affect it as badly but you can still have a large one if you want. would be a nice change as well

 

[bonamb]

4 hours ago, (PSN)chris1pat8twins said:

I feel he needs more synergy with his abilities. For starters I feel that he shouldn’t be affected by cold status. And he could slide across icy paths. Part of his passive.

For his first ability, I feel double freezing an enemy should freeze them solid and solid enemies should be extra vulnerable to impact damage. Could be charged for instant solid freezing. 
 

Second ability I feel should freeze the ground and cause enemies to slip and fall, making them vulnerable to mercies.

 

His Snowglobe should have more use than just defense at this point. Maybe if the second ability is used on it, it causes spikes to pierce the enemies. We should definitely see a health status of it as well, not just percentage. Enemies inside when it explodes should receive more damage and be frozen solid. 
 

His fourth should be enhanced a little. Requiring 250% for armor strip makes it hard to use on enemies who can one shot you and love to keep their distance. 
 

Sometimes I wish MR or polarizing a frame could lead to stat build up. Not a super lot but enough to be noticeable and useful. Encourage people to want to do more. Or add some kind of new Steel Path mods that give the same stats as other mods, but come with a buff during steel path missions. And they can only drop in specific steel path missions from specific enemies. 

The slip and slide for his second is a super fun idea, especially since it makes them vulnerable to mercies! Id hope it would inflict a cold status as well for theme and possibly synergy. In regards to the snowglobe health status - I know! I love being able to see rhinos iron skin stats, and I've wished since forever that I could see Frosts. In regards to his fourth, yeah thats what I mean - its really hard to mod Frost!

2 hours ago, PollexMessier said:

His 3 is hands down his best ability and his 4 is a good cc and armor strip. The biggest issue is that range is detrimental to his 3. But both are great and important abilities for him. Casting his 4 regularly keeps his 3 alive longer because enemies aren't shooting at it. Granted his 4 does kindof need range, duration, AND power to be at it's most effective. But I have pitiful duration on him and it still CCs pretty well as long as you're casting it frequently. I haven't tried him after the eximus changes. But prior to that he was a hell of a lot better than people were giving him credit for. You could easily run steel path defense with him and have no issues.

 

I'm not suggesting you replace his globe with armor. I'm suggesting adding a secondary function to it where frost can effectively take a globe he's set and wrap it around himself like armor. Visually and thematically fun. Gives frost DR he sorely needs, and replaces his 1's function of deleting globes while actually giving you something for doing it. Basically the ability to pick his globe up but instead of walking around with it like ice eximus it conforms to his body.

Tho if allies could shoot through it. Just being able to pick it up and move around with it isn't really bad.

Maybe be able to control his globe's size like you can with mass vitrify so high range doesn't affect it as badly but you can still have a large one if you want. would be a nice change as well

 

Yes his 3 is great and his 4 is decent (if hard to mod for), but he still has two utterly useless abilities at higher levels. I've played a fair bit of Frost since the eximus changes, and as long as you shoot the big glowy man before they reach your bubble (and they dont just one shot CC you through it) you should be golden. It's definitely a difficult increase though. 

Unfortunately I'm fairly certain I'm giving Frost just as much credit as he deserves. In addition to my experience with the frame mentioned in the OP, I've got 13 forma on him, including 3 umbrals - I know how he works! His snowglobe is his one truly good ability, but that at the very least needs a touch-up, and even thats not enough to get over the fact that he's just an old frame (none of his stats make sense, he is incredibly hard to mod for, his abilities don't have any synergy, two of his abilities are useless etc etc etc as mentioned in the OP). I've taken him to every single corner of the star chart on the steel path - to Mot, the Zaramin mobile defence, to the Kuva Fortress, to the sentient ships in the Veil Proxima - literally everywhere! I do hate to say it as he has always been my favourite, but he just doesn't measure up to the newer primes! He struggles to get past 5 minutes in steel path mot solo, while with Atlas I can vibe for half an hour easy. He dies pretty much instantly in the steel path Zaramin whereas I can take an unformad Garuda prime and be twice as effective. I can do a Kuva Fortress defence better with a wholeass Grendal than I can with Frost! Hell, I try to take him to even isolation vaults and he's just instantly taken out by a Bonewidow. He's just old, and quite literally has not received a single rework or even noticeable update since any of this newer content came out - his entire kit: his stats, his abilities and even his look are just ancient by this point. 

Sure, he has one good ability, with a second that is difficult to use and mod and seriously needs a buff, and the one good ability is why people still use him for non-SP excavations, defences and mobile defences (when there isnt a limbo there) without any difficulty at all! But thats pretty much all he can do, and he really just needs an update - I honestly cannot justify using him over just a tank frame with a big aoe weapon at this point. 

Spiel over, I think the thoughts you have in regards to his third ability are quite fun - I'd like to be able to change the size of the bubble amongst other things, and using it as armour? Funky - runs the risk of straight up just having a more powerful iron skin than rhino though so I don't think DE would like that! I hope at least one dev reads this thread cause there really have been some good ideas on here!  

 

[(PSN)chris1pat8twins]

1 hour ago, bonamb said:

The slip and slide for his second is a super fun idea, especially since it makes them vulnerable to mercies! Id hope it would inflict a cold status as well for theme and possibly synergy. In regards to the snowglobe health status - I know! I love being able to see rhinos iron skin stats, and I've wished since forever that I could see Frosts. In regards to his fourth, yeah thats what I mean - its really hard to mod Frost!

 

That’s why my Nidus Prime is built the way he is. He has maxed out power strength and a lot of duration for the pure purpose of enhancing my teammates by increasing their power strength by up to 2.5x. 4x during fissures. 
 

I’ve linked my Nidus to a chroma to buff up vex armor. Made it like 3,000%. Then linked to a nearby Rhino who used iron skin and gained 249K armor. Then his roar was buffed up to 500%. 
 

Based on my math, a fissured rhino + fissured Nidus with equinox augmented light third ability and full squad of growing power, Rhino Roar could reach above 2,000%. Fissured chroma vex could reach close to 15,000%.  Fissured iron skin could be close to 5M. 
 

Stalker got one shot. Wolf of Saturn six was reduced to a little puppy. Went hours on arbitrations. Granted this combination only happened a few times. And I never reached the max during fissures. Requires a lot of coordination to pull off. 
 

And boy that snowglobe next to Nidus and chroma. Even level 200 bombarders could barely bring it down by 1%. 
 

Nidus is tied with rhino as my favorite frames. I can do some of the most teamwork with those 2. Enhancing my allies either to defend objectives or destroy high level enemies, including most bosses. 

[-ODIN-SwoleChef]

Imo, reworking cold damage would help frost better than reworking his entire kit. It's the worst of the primary elements and does nothing when combined with other elements, except toxin to make viral ofc.

[(PSN)chris1pat8twins]

38 minutes ago, -ODIN-hugeblackdude said:

Imo, reworking cold damage would help frost better than reworking his entire kit. It's the worst of the primary elements and does nothing when combined with other elements, except toxin to make viral ofc.

I feel that cold should make enemies more vulnerable to impact damage. Gas should reduce their accuracy. Toxic should make them stumble a little. Fire should cause them to panic. Impact should cause some stun or dizzy effect on tougher enemies. 
 

At least those would assist greatly in steel path missions. Even thought of a gas based frame cause so far no such frame exists. Basically picture Vauban with a more hazmat suit like design/mask, who can create ignitable gas. So not only could he inflict gas damage, but can ignite it to deal blast damage. Could even be released in the infested open world if they wanted as he would be a major infested exterminator. 

[-ODIN-SwoleChef]

14 hours ago, (PSN)chris1pat8twins said:

I feel that cold should make enemies more vulnerable to impact damage. Gas should reduce their accuracy. Toxic should make them stumble a little. Fire should cause them to panic. Impact should cause some stun or dizzy effect on tougher enemies. 

Not just impact, it should make enemies vulnerable to all damage, and should actually freeze targets after 10 stacks. Vulnerability goes up to 100% at 10 stacks too, and should increase by 10% every 10 stacks or so; this way when it is an element by itself or is pair with another element(corro, gas, etc) it actually brings something to the table just like the other 3 primary elements. Gas should just be reverted to what it was since it wasn't even broken, only had a niche use against corpus enemies only. Fire and impact already do what you stated lol. My biggest gripe is blast, but this is already getting off topic.

[bonamb]

14 hours ago, (PSN)chris1pat8twins said:

I feel that cold should make enemies more vulnerable to impact damage. Gas should reduce their accuracy. Toxic should make them stumble a little. Fire should cause them to panic. Impact should cause some stun or dizzy effect on tougher enemies. 
 

At least those would assist greatly in steel path missions. Even thought of a gas based frame cause so far no such frame exists. Basically picture Vauban with a more hazmat suit like design/mask, who can create ignitable gas. So not only could he inflict gas damage, but can ignite it to deal blast damage. Could even be released in the infested open world if they wanted as he would be a major infested exterminator. 

Its a slight deviation from the topic but its literally war crime frame and I love the idea! Perhaps the "gas" he creates could be switched between toxin, gas and corrosive on a wheel allowing him a bit more flexibility perhaps, but still have all of them be ignitable (perhaps that's a separate ability?).

15 hours ago, -ODIN-hugeblackdude said:

Imo, reworking cold damage would help frost better than reworking his entire kit. It's the worst of the primary elements and does nothing when combined with other elements, except toxin to make viral ofc.

As for reworking the Cold status - I personally quite like it as it is! Sure it doesn't increase damage, but it slows enemy's down which feels thematic and what frost needs IMO is a way to constantly invoke it, perhaps having an ability that works like sevagoths gloom, or having his existing abilities apply it a little easier. Potentially then you can just scale abilities off the amount of cold procs an enemy has, and being frost afflict additional effects or simply do more damage versus those enemies. 

I personally wouldn't mind frozen enemies being more susceptible to impact damage though, that's quite funny. 

[(XBOX)elementXGHILLIE]

I had a viable Frost Steel Path build

The gameplay loop was Always have energy regen coming in from energy dash

Arcane tanker, warcry(exchanged for his two) bubble. This would get me a strong enough bubble to tank a decent amount.

I had 230ish strength so I could max armor strip enemies. I also used Icy Avalanche for a buffer between my 4 CC running out and giving me time to recast his 3 or 4.

This got ruined by the eximus change who cant freeze completely or armor strip with overguard. Keep in mind even vauban can still armor strip them.

You could make Frost semi-viable by number tweaking

• Swap his base energy and shield numbers
• Increase the multipliers in the equation that gives his total bubble health. Not sure what is but it involves armor and strength
• Make it easier to get max armor strip by giving him more default armor strip.
• Make his 2's augment be the default

If you wanna rework any ability, just rework his 2 at least.

• make it gloom that procs cold in Aoe, and give it doubled effect in his bubble
• His passive should be all enemies have a chance to freeze from any attack, or deal x% more damage per cold proc on the enemy.

 

[Frendh]

I could play Frost just fine in steel path before overguard, especially vs grineer and not too bad against corrupted.  Now it is not enjoyable at all.

[Yamazuki]

He definitely could do with stat changes as a start. His base shields should be towards the low end with better armor and health values. Allowing the armor shred to scale with his armor would be a good thing too, as it removes the need to worry about high power strength to fill his defensive/utility position.

I think DE should as a start do a balance pass on base stats for Warframes in general.

[bonamb]

20 hours ago, (XBOX)elementXGHILLIE said:

I had a viable Frost Steel Path build

The gameplay loop was Always have energy regen coming in from energy dash

Arcane tanker, warcry(exchanged for his two) bubble. This would get me a strong enough bubble to tank a decent amount.

I had 230ish strength so I could max armor strip enemies. I also used Icy Avalanche for a buffer between my 4 CC running out and giving me time to recast his 3 or 4.

This got ruined by the eximus change who cant freeze completely or armor strip with overguard. Keep in mind even vauban can still armor strip them.

You could make Frost semi-viable by number tweaking

• Swap his base energy and shield numbers
• Increase the multipliers in the equation that gives his total bubble health. Not sure what is but it involves armor and strength
• Make it easier to get max armor strip by giving him more default armor strip.
• Make his 2's augment be the default

If you wanna rework any ability, just rework his 2 at least.

• make it gloom that procs cold in Aoe, and give it doubled effect in his bubble
• His passive should be all enemies have a chance to freeze from any attack, or deal x% more damage per cold proc on the enemy.

 

The problem is, even the old builds you have to spam abilities and defend your bubble like hell with some niche build to actually survive, whereas there are so many frames that you don't even need to think with on the steel path! Now with the new eximus who can just shoot a CC straight into your bubble that you cannot avoid it's kinda pointless. 

If they want us to spam abilities as a caster frame more than a tank, they kinda need to give us a bigger energy pool or at least a better way of getting energy back! 

You need 250% btw to max armour strip (without corrosive projection) btw. 

Ironically enough I actually like the feel of his two - its a very visceral groundslam. However, I'd like it to actually do something, instead of falling off at level 50!

[(XBOX)elementXGHILLIE]

20 hours ago, Frendh said:

I could play Frost just fine in steel path before overguard, especially vs grineer and not too bad against corrupted.  Now it is not enjoyable at all.

Worst part is I dont know that him not armor stripping is an oversight or intended. They didnt lock out vauban strip which is casted with his cc, but the locked out frost's because his CC causes the strip. Either way this hits frost hard.

 

[GREF_TM]

On 2022-07-21 at 7:52 AM, Leqesai said:

"We at Digital Extremes have heard your concerns regarding one of the Warframes most in need of improvement. In response we will be buffing Mag and Excalibur. Have a nice day."

Hey, back off! While buffing mag is somewhat unexpected, excal is a poster boy and he definitely needed dem buffs for a very long time. He (arguably) has only one good ability as of now.

It should've been valk and frost instead of mag though, that's for sure. And then ash probably.

[(XBOX)elementXGHILLIE]

7 minutes ago, GREF_TM said:

Hey, back off! While buffing mag is somewhat unexpected, excal is a poster boy and he definitely needed dem buffs for a very long time. He (arguably) has only one good ability as of now.

It should've been valk and frost instead of mag though, that's for sure. And then ash probably.

Nah Id argue he has one great one and 2 good ones. His one needs a redesign tho. 

Excal is steel path viable by either using a 3 augment then ult build or a 2 spam finisher build.

As for Mag the changes are to make her more new player friendly. I just hope they dont change Mag too much to make her easier and then nerfing her late game.

[GREF_TM]

17 minutes ago, (XBOX)elementXGHILLIE said:

Nah Id argue he has one great one and 2 good ones. His one needs a redesign tho. 

Aside from blind, i can't call any of his abilities actually good. EB loses to melees while cosing energy and taking up an entire ability slot (and that slot could've been a stomp/roar/warcry/larva/etc. tier ability, you know) and requires augment just to function at higher levels (and even then it falls off compared to slash if you go too deep), slash dash has extremely niche utility and generally not worth using over simply bullet jumping into slam, and javelin without aug is a 'throw 75 energy away' button.

 

17 minutes ago, (XBOX)elementXGHILLIE said:

Excal is steel path viable by either using a 3 augment then ult build or a 2 spam finisher build.

Or you can bring baruuk/rhino a with a melee (just an example) or ash with blind and do virtually the same while having a better frame. 

You can play SP with him, sure. But technically, you can beat a steel path mission even with limbo without using abilities, if you play well. "Steel path viable" is a vague point and doesn't prove anything about frame being actually good imo.