Void Cascade needs a total overhaul

[taiiat]

36 minutes ago, (PSN)shiwan8 said:

Nothing even remotely suggests that. What makes you think so?

on PC now, and other Platforms once they get it, Syndicate Tokens are a global Pickup. so other People will be able to pick them up for you.

[Genitive]

3 hours ago, (PSN)shiwan8 said:

Cool, that’s you. Some of us don’t think like DE does. I’m old school, I don’t have a problem with not having a nav point on objectives. The objectives in these are vagues af. Basics are fine. In this particular case there was an added ”kill a thing” but there wa no hint on where that thing was, what it looked like and so on. So, a total overhaul is needed. Not that this thing could not be made clearer to fix the easily. It’s needed because DE has to learn to be clear on what it wants us to do, exactly.

If you think cascade is difficult then I don't know what else say to you. But I have a question. What would the overhaul look like?

[Cerikus]

4 hours ago, (PSN)shiwan8 said:

Yes.

True, which is fine if the objective is clear which it may or may not be.

Yes, the rewards are ridiculously low.

Your experience ≠ everyones’s experience. 

I am sorry to say this, but your incompetence to comprehend gamemode objectives, when NPCs say literally what you are suppose to do, is not DEs fault, but yours.

The Zariman bounties and missions are one of the most rewarding content we have right now and that's a fact and your opinion cannot change that.
The whole Zariman grind is perfectly balanced and smooth. Also it is fun. That is not only my opinion, but majority of players think that. (based on the reactions I saw on the forums)

4 hours ago, (PSN)shiwan8 said:

How do you say ”this is absolutely useless and has to be fixed” in a positive way?

Well, unfortunatelly you cannot say lies in a possitive way.

What I meant by "stop being so negativistic" is if you spend 5 minutes listening to what people are saying here, you would already know everything and you could be on your merry way to enjoy the Zariman. 

4 hours ago, (PSN)shiwan8 said:

Nothing even remotely suggests that. What makes you think so?

How about the literal patchnotes for the newest update that's been released on all platforms ??? 🤔

[Frendh]

5 hours ago, (PSN)shiwan8 said:

That is not an argument against mine.

I do not need to argue against you. If there are 5 people who like something and 1 who does not, then there is no reason to change it. Context is game design.

I do not see any flaws with the game mode that need to be fixed.

 

[(PSN)shiwan8]

On 2022-08-19 at 1:04 PM, Genitive said:

If you think cascade is difficult then I don't know what else say to you. But I have a question. What would the overhaul look like?

Clear mission design. Meaning clear objectives of which exactly none are something like the current void cascade bounty in which you are practically alone, you have to protect the discoballs 2-3 at a time AND search for an accolade that can be anywhere. If there is a ”do this and that at the same time” thing or any other sort of time restriction there can not be any other side gigs that will lead to failure except by a rare accident. The current design needs a total overhaul because of that existing. There are other problems too but that alone is enough to warrant it. 

[(PSN)shiwan8]

On 2022-08-19 at 10:15 AM, taiiat said:

on PC now, and other Platforms once they get it, Syndicate Tokens are a global Pickup. so other People will be able to pick them up for you.

That is not the problem here though it certainly makes things easier.

[(PSN)shiwan8]

On 2022-08-19 at 2:54 PM, Frendh said:

I do not need to argue against you. If there are 5 people who like something and 1 who does not, then there is no reason to change it. Context is game design.

I do not see any flaws with the game mode that need to be fixed.

 

Well, let me give you one, just so that you have one. You are doing the highest bounty alone, you have to keep 3 pylons good at the same time and you have to find an accolade while doing that. You can’t do both but if you fail in any of that, the mission fails. Is this a good design in your opinion?

[(PSN)shiwan8]

On 2022-08-19 at 2:06 PM, Cerikus said:

I am sorry to say this, but your incompetence to comprehend gamemode objectives, when NPCs say literally what you are suppose to do, is not DEs fault, but yours.

The Zariman bounties and missions are one of the most rewarding content we have right now and that's a fact and your opinion cannot change that.
The whole Zariman grind is perfectly balanced and smooth. Also it is fun. That is not only my opinion, but majority of players think that. (based on the reactions I saw on the forums)

Well, unfortunatelly you cannot say lies in a possitive way.

What I meant by "stop being so negativistic" is if you spend 5 minutes listening to what people are saying here, you would already know everything and you could be on your merry way to enjoy the Zariman. 

How about the literal patchnotes for the newest update that's been released on all platforms ??? 🤔

If it was so we would not have this facts vs. fanboys setup going here.

Rewarding to who? Beginners? They can’t survive any of the relevants stuff. Endgamers? Don’t need any of the stuff. The people who are neither of those are rare.

How do you define smooth? Fun to who besides you? If the majority think that you must have stats to prove that. I have seen no survey about this thing. How did you gather your data? Or are you just going with feelings?

What did I lie about? The design is factually fubar. There are good ideas there but many of the things demand a well playing group that knows everyone in it ridiculously well in the context of playing the game and wants to play well together. A PUG can’t do any of the new missions sufficiently well.

Many of the bounties make things impossible. None of those are addressed here. I have read all the comments and have yet to see a good guide to the exact locations of the accolades or any sort of explanation on how to solo kill an angel under 5ish seconds because that’s roughly what the expectation is when playing in a pick up group. Slower than that and the mission will fail. If you can provide those based on the assumption that I am mediocre and everyone else in the group is way worse, because that is the reality in almost every game, I will applaud you. If you can’t do that then, well, the result is that I am right and you are not. It is what it is.

[Frendh]

47 minutes ago, (PSN)shiwan8 said:

Well, let me give you one, just so that you have one. You are doing the highest bounty alone, you have to keep 3 pylons good at the same time and you have to find an accolade while doing that. You can’t do both but if you fail in any of that, the mission fails. Is this a good design in your opinion?

Correct me if I am wrong, but I am fairly sure you can finish the exolizers first (you are talking about cascade?) if it is a bounty. Then you can look for the accolade. But for someone who is not familiar with the accolades, yes that will most likely be difficult.

But it is supposed to be harder solo.

[(PSN)Stack77]

On 2022-08-16 at 3:05 AM, (PSN)shiwan8 said:

Imagine a mission that has 2 objectives, one is clear and one is hidden with you having exactly no possible way to use any sort of logic, skill etc. to complete the later. Add a ridiculously tight time constraint. That’s void cascade. It’s just incredibly bad. 

I’ve returned a few months ago from a 2 year break and never had a problem with what you are describing. Do you mean the bounty objective? Its description is in the bounty itself. Was it kill a dormant void angel? All you have to do is look for it. It’s no different than doing the silver grove. What is there to rework? It’s straight forward.

[taiiat]

8 hours ago, (PSN)shiwan8 said:

That is not the problem here though it certainly makes things easier.

that is entirely the problem. you're complaining about being Rewarded for exploring and learning the Tileset that was created for the Update. you were never required to if you would insist on not doing it, another avenue for progression without learning the Tileset was provided to you.

[Monolake]

Finally an active fun and rewarding mode. It's difficult to run solo if you want to go far thats true, but I wouldnt even change that, not everything needs to be super easy and soloable (even Eidolons already are). So big thumbs up on Cascade, DE.

What needs an overhaul is the turret defense mode whats it called, Armageddon? its static and super long, its a total drag and rewards are worthless, but you have to grind it for the Hespar blade

[(PSN)shiwan8]

11 hours ago, Frendh said:

Correct me if I am wrong, but I am fairly sure you can finish the exolizers first (you are talking about cascade?) if it is a bounty. Then you can look for the accolade. But for someone who is not familiar with the accolades, yes that will most likely be difficult.

But it is supposed to be harder solo.

You can do the 4 but the mission fails if you can’t do the bounty before the cascade caps. 

You can have a full group and still be playing practically solo.

[(PSN)shiwan8]

10 hours ago, (PSN)Stack77 said:

I’ve returned a few months ago from a 2 year break and never had a problem with what you are describing. Do you mean the bounty objective? Its description is in the bounty itself. Was it kill a dormant void angel? All you have to do is look for it. It’s no different than doing the silver grove. What is there to rework? It’s straight forward.

You don’t have enough time. The cascade fails before you find and kill the angel or find and deliver the accolade.

[(PSN)shiwan8]

3 hours ago, taiiat said:

that is entirely the problem. you're complaining about being Rewarded for exploring and learning the Tileset that was created for the Update. you were never required to if you would insist on not doing it, another avenue for progression without learning the Tileset was provided to you.

So, your suggested solution is that I spend time to not play the game while doing a mission in which I don’t have enough time to do the mission...because that helps me to do the mission that will fail if I go exploring.... Ok.

[(PSN)Stack77]

3 minutes ago, (PSN)shiwan8 said:

You can do the 4 but the mission fails if you can’t do the bounty before the cascade caps. 

You can have a full group and still be playing practically solo.

 

2 minutes ago, (PSN)shiwan8 said:

You don’t have enough time. The cascade fails before you find and kill the angel or find and deliver the accolade.

Are you sure you are brining the the most efficient load out? Do you have a method of crowd control? Does your focus school have synergies that work with the frame and amp you’ve brought? Is your amp built for the mission type? Do your weapons benefit each other? 
Have you just rushed to this point in the game and expected it to be as easy as earlier missions? I feel like you have and that these missions are too overwhelming for you. I think if you did a little research, you’ll find that it is possible to solo these missions. 

[(PSN)shiwan8]

32 minutes ago, Monolake said:

Finally an active fun and rewarding mode. It's difficult to run solo if you want to go far thats true, but I wouldnt even change that, not everything needs to be super easy and soloable (even Eidolons already are). So big thumbs up on Cascade, DE.

What needs an overhaul is the turret defense mode whats it called, Armageddon? its static and super long, its a total drag and rewards are worthless, but you have to grind it for the Hespar blade

Ok. So, what’s your solution to not having time to do the bare minimum the mission requires? Groups are not that. If I had another me or better to play with then there would not be a problem. I can solo the pylons long enough for the other me or better to search for the accolade. That’s fine. Most players can barely deal with the scythe guys while going 3 to 1 on them.

 

other than the guns being 100% useless the tower defense is fine, in my opinion. It has phases. It’s not quick but it does not expect you to solo multiple things of which a player regardless of skill level can only solo one.

[(PSN)Stack77]

7 minutes ago, (PSN)shiwan8 said:

So, your suggested solution is that I spend time to not play the game while doing a mission in which I don’t have enough time to do the mission...because that helps me to do the mission that will fail if I go exploring.... Ok.

It’s the repetition of exploring that familiarizes you with the tile sets. It just like corpus gas city secret labs. The first few times are tough but after repeating it so many times, you know where to look, what to look for and how to complete it. 

[(PSN)shiwan8]

7 minutes ago, (PSN)Stack77 said:

 

Are you sure you are brining the the most efficient load out? Do you have a method of crowd control? Does your focus school have synergies that work with the frame and amp you’ve brought? Is your amp built for the mission type? Do your weapons benefit each other? 
Have you just rushed to this point in the game and expected it to be as easy as earlier missions? I feel like you have and that these missions are too overwhelming for you. I think if you did a little research, you’ll find that it is possible to solo these missions. 

Yes, but even sub par loadout is fine if you are not trying to go far, just to complete the mission. You can’t CC anything relevant efficiently. Yes and no, there is 1 loadout for the tileset and it’s what kills the angel fastests. Everything else melts with basic stuff.

I have max rank and 4k hours behind me. That can’t be rushed. You can’t solo or group a missin in which you are the only player playing the mission in which you have to do the job of 2 players and nobody is helping. Hence the need for an overhaul.

[(PSN)shiwan8]

9 minutes ago, (PSN)Stack77 said:

It’s the repetition of exploring that familiarizes you with the tile sets. It just like corpus gas city secret labs. The first few times are tough but after repeating it so many times, you know where to look, what to look for and how to complete it. 

Sure. The places in which these items are are not few and far between, but the items certainly are. It’s not like these are the equivalent of the golden hands. Learning the places does not help when you have to look everywhere regardless...

[TheArmchairThinker]

On 2022-08-16 at 4:05 PM, (PSN)shiwan8 said:

Imagine a mission that has 2 objectives, one is clear and one is hidden with you having exactly no possible way to use any sort of logic, skill etc. to complete the later. Add a ridiculously tight time constraint. That’s void cascade. It’s just incredibly bad. 

Are perhaps, taking void cascade mission from Quinn? That's called bounties with a secondary objectives that in no way hidden with no possible way to complete

You can do the mission from the elevator if you want to run the mission only, no secondary objectives

Lastly, Void Cascade is in no way hard

- Clear the fissures

- Hit the manifestation

- Defend exolizers until it's depleted (kill enemies in zone to hasten the process)

- Keep purged exolizer more than possessed to keep the level down. 3 purged to 2 possessed is enough to keep it going down

What part you don't understand?

[taiiat]

1 hour ago, (PSN)shiwan8 said:

Ok. So, what’s your solution to not having time to do the bare minimum the mission requires?

idk, Equip full Mod Loadouts, have a decent Spacekid, Et Cetera
because that's all i could remotely guess is why you can't complete the Mission.

or maybe you're playing the game with DK Bongos or a bunch of Bananas, and in that case use normal Input Hardware instead.

[Cerikus]

17 hours ago, (PSN)shiwan8 said:

If it was so we would not have this facts vs. fanboys setup going here.

Rewarding to who? Beginners? They can’t survive any of the relevants stuff. Endgamers? Don’t need any of the stuff. The people who are neither of those are rare.

How do you define smooth? Fun to who besides you? If the majority think that you must have stats to prove that. I have seen no survey about this thing. How did you gather your data? Or are you just going with feelings?

What did I lie about? The design is factually fubar. There are good ideas there but many of the things demand a well playing group that knows everyone in it ridiculously well in the context of playing the game and wants to play well together. A PUG can’t do any of the new missions sufficiently well.

Many of the bounties make things impossible. None of those are addressed here. I have read all the comments and have yet to see a good guide to the exact locations of the accolades or any sort of explanation on how to solo kill an angel under 5ish seconds because that’s roughly what the expectation is when playing in a pick up group. Slower than that and the mission will fail. If you can provide those based on the assumption that I am mediocre and everyone else in the group is way worse, because that is the reality in almost every game, I will applaud you. If you can’t do that then, well, the result is that I am right and you are not. It is what it is.

I am an endgamer and I still need focus, I still need endo, relics will never be irrelevant and I still need a many copies of the new arcanes to max them out. Not even mentioning, that I want to start fashioning my dormizone soon, so I will need a lot of standing. Also, Incarnon weapons are great even for endgamers.

I usually do everything solo. Sometimes we play with my friend, so we are two and I / we have never experienced anything close to what you are saying.

Guide for accolades:
They spawn either in the same tile or in the tile that directly next to the tile with the Cephalon. Accolades make a very loud noice that you can pick up from pretty far.
Golden instinct will lead you to it.
The ghost children from the Zariman flashlights will lead you to it.
Parallax special airsupport ability will mark it on your map. 
What else do you want???

Angel killing guide:
Deal damage until it retreats into the void. Jump into the void.
Use Madurai, because void strike will help you remove its shields in a second. It also skips the "catch the orbs" mechanic.
Repeat and it's dead. If you cannot deal enough damage to Angels health. Get better weapon or mods, strip its armor or use high DPS frame.

Do you know that in cascade you cannot let enemies have captured exolizers?
Do you know that the enemies marked by red square can capture your exolizers (because of that you must kill them asap)?
Do you know that killing enemies in the bubble of your captured exolizer lowers the meter (so you have more time)?

Do you know that one of the the best endgame farms is currently Steel path cascade? How is that possible, if the mission is unplayable on the normal difficulty???

What other bounty tasks make the cascade impossible to finish

[Frendh]

5 hours ago, (PSN)shiwan8 said:

 Learning the places does not help when you have to look everywhere regardless...

No, you do not have to look everywhere. Void angels can only spawn in certain rooms (EDIT: You get a waypoint to the void angel when it is required for the mission!). Usually three rooms per mission. Easy to find because they are gigantic compared to all other rooms. Accolades have a sound effect when you get close and they seem to always spawn within a certain distance from the pink stations.  If you refuse to practice and learn to improve then I suggest you invest 20p and get the Parallax orbiter. It has an ability that will way point plumes, accolades, ayatan sculptures, somechords, cephalon fragments, kurias and probably warframe fighter scannables. 500m radius I think. Find a pink station, hit scan. Never tried it, but guessing that should do it.

All that information I got just by playing the game. You can probably find out more details by doing proper research.

If I solo those missions regularly I will probably fail occasionally. But not enough to warrant an overhaul. You should be used to this already, you have 4k hours in the game. 

I am not opposed to tweaking the mission. But tweaking numbers is NOT the same as an overhaul.

[Mag_Gaming]

😂

No, no it doesn´t.

On 2022-08-16 at 11:23 AM, LeoniePiggy said:

???

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Yes. 👍