Warframe speculation: Joe mad's werewolf

[CypressEDF]

11 hours ago, TomCruisesSon said:

Yeah, they've been pushing Wolf themed instead of Werewolf themed because they already have enough frames with Clawed Berserker abilities.

If people really want to go full Clawed Berserker. You can subsume War Cry + Augment + Claws on any frame you want.

But I didn't want another mindless single button hack and slash from the werewolf.  The transformation should have added a new form of movement on normal and open world missions, and his combat in wolf form should have been fleshed out with combos, the ability to grab, throw and swing enemies around.  Saying we didn't want to make a werewolf because we have other melee frames is a lazy excuse and a lack of creativity. 

[CypressEDF]

15 hours ago, Pakaku said:

The problem with themes is I don't think even DE bothers to follow set themes that closely. Protea stands out, she's an engineer with a bunch of buildables for abilities... and then for some reason a time-themed fourth ability?

You're exactly right, less and less have DE chosen a theme and stuck true and respectful to it.  They've finally admitted the new frame isn't a werewolf, but we asked for a werewolf not a Shaman wolf spirit thing.  Joe Mads art deserves better such as a hellhound, or some other darksiders theme.

[Leqesai]

It makes more sense for the frame to be Wolf themed than Werewolf themed though. 

 

I'll reserve judgment until I actually try the frame. IMO it looks pretty cool from the concept art.

[(XBOX)Rez090]

23 minutes ago, CypressEDF said:

They clearly know this because the foil to a werewolf, a vampire, was done correctly seductive when Garuda released.

Sorry to burst your bubble but wrong frame. You meant to type Revenant.

[(PSN)Cargan2016]

we dont know what its abilities will be for all we know one of its abilities could have it change to a kubrow like form and have only mele based attacks.  seeing as all we have so far is the base design

[(PSN)Cargan2016]

24 minutes ago, CypressEDF said:

All I know is the poll asked if we wanted a werewolf, we said yes...now their making a Shaman wolf spirit frame...not cool DE...Fenrir looks so much better as a werewolf.

https://twitter.com/anzuarden_art/status/1430582016186019844

we dont know what her abilities will be all we have is a single design image for all we know she could have any over her abilities change her into a wolf like kubrow and either be timed or a toggle and have us restricted to mele.  we have next to no information about her so its stupid to start jumping to conclusions about what she will or wont be.

[Skaleek]

Well, Revenant was the vampire frame and you tell me how many of his abilities are vampire themed.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

41 minutes ago, CypressEDF said:

1.) What makes a werewolf? 

typically fur, fangs, and a weakness to silver, if you're goign by the generic pop-culture standard: just about every nation in the world has their own take on the Werewolf though. a transformation akin to Nidus or Chroma isn't necessarily out of the question thoguh, as we don't know what those ghostly-looking Wolf heads will do; could be that as you kill enemies, more of them appear and perhaps other features of the frame change too.

44 minutes ago, CypressEDF said:

2.) Appearance:

I'll admit they're leaning more into the demonic/Cerberus/hellhound side of the canine theme personally, they only vaguely look like wolves becasue of the "ears", without those it would look like any other monster. still, it'll eventually get a deluxe skin/Tennogen, so I'll just wait for that like I have done with all the other frames (can't wait for Styanax Tennogen!)

47 minutes ago, CypressEDF said:

Gameplay impact:

I hope it's not going to be yet another exalted claw ability; between Valkyr, Garuda and Sevagoth we already have more than enough claw users, but that's pretty much the only weapon a werewolf has, aside from biting. i'd suggets the ability to maul enemies pitbull-style, but such single target abilities are usually frowned upon in our horde shooter, so my money is on its kit being somethign completely left-field and not what we would expect of a typical werewolf. as long as it's not boring, it'll do I guess.

just about every conceivable theme for a warframe has been explored or touched on at this point, so I find it a real struggle to hype for any new frames. 

[(PSN)Cargan2016]

9 minutes ago, Skaleek said:

Well, Revenant was the vampire frame and you tell me how many of his abilities are vampire themed.

atleast half

his 1st ability Entrall most Classic vampire books and movies give Many or all vampires ability to entrall some one

his 3rd ability is a dash threw the enemy and steal health and shields from any he passes threw.   seems pretty well like a vapire type ability to me

[Skaleek]

3 minutes ago, (PSN)Cargan2016 said:

atleast half

his 1st ability Entrall most Classic vampire books and movies give Many or all vampires ability to entrall some one

his 3rd ability is a dash threw the enemy and steal health and shields from any he passes threw.   seems pretty well like a vapire type ability to me

All in the eye of the beholder. I can get on board with idea of enthrall being vampire-esque, since thralls are a vampire staple. I think arguing his 3 is vampire-like is stretching, just my opinion.

[(XBOX)Lord ChibiVR]

39 minutes ago, (XBOX)Rez090 said:

Sorry to burst your bubble but wrong frame. You meant to type Revenant.

Shhhhh.... 

 

Don't give Gears any ideas.

[(XBOX)Rez090]

10 minutes ago, (PSN)robotwars7 said:

I hope it's not going to be yet another exalted claw ability

No, let it be this but instead of claws its wolf heads used in a punch that bite. Could make them be ethereal.

[sunderthefirmament]

1 minute ago, Skaleek said:

I think arguing his 3 is vampire-like is stretching, just my opinion.

It's mist form, which is another hallmark of some vampire mythology.

[(PSN)Cargan2016]

Just now, Skaleek said:

All in the eye of the beholder. I can get on board with the 1 idea of enthrall, since thralls are a vampire staple. I think arguing his 3 is vampire-like is stretching, just my opinion.

How is leaching life from target not vampire like that is literally the entire premise of vampires period that is not open for interpretation

[(PSN)Cargan2016]

1 minute ago, sunderthefirmament said:

It's mist form, which is another hallmark of some vampire mythology.

I had completely forgotten about that but this too

[(PSN)robotwars7]

1 minute ago, (XBOX)Rez090 said:

No, let it be this but instead of claws its wolf heads used in a punch that bite. Could make them be ethereal.

that would look cool, but it's still functionally just another frame where you melee spam to kill stuff. I'm hoping her kit will have a *little* more to it than that..

[TeaHands]

1 hour ago, CypressEDF said:

But I didn't want another mindless single button hack and slash from the werewolf.  The transformation should have added a new form of movement on normal and open world missions, and his combat in wolf form should have been fleshed out with combos, the ability to grab, throw and swing enemies around.  Saying we didn't want to make a werewolf because we have other melee frames is a lazy excuse and a lack of creativity. 

 

Their paraphrased words. Not mine. And those are neat ideas, apparently DE doesn't have the capacity to pull something like that off so they went down another route for the frame.

[Loza03]

1 hour ago, CypressEDF said:

1.) What makes a werewolf? 

Werewolfs have always been a symbol of an inner beast, a physical manifestation of pure masculine, beastial rage (That doesn't mean all werewolves are male, but masculine in nature).  So to me, when a game like warframe creates characters based on a well known theme, I have the expectation they honor the details of that theme.  One of the major aspects of a werewolf is transformation, the beast is usually hidden in an unsuspecting or elegant form to contrast their vicious beast form.  The frame we're getting removed that aspect, already that feels like a disregard for the theme.  Secondly, when talking about representing a theme, this frame should be male, each frame's gender is symbolic of their theme, equinox for example is purely female, yet her night form is more feminine and her day form is more masculine just like the lore behind yin and yang.  So what you're representing a werewolf by theme, a feminine appearance doesn't make any sense, it feels disrespectful they gave our werewolf the Mesa treatment and turned our wolf into an overly busty erotic model.  That's not what werewolves are about.  They clearly know this because the foil to a werewolf, a vampire, was done correctly seductive when Garuda released.

Actually... no.

The idea of the 'Wolf Man' who turns into a horrific monstrosity, let alone a human/animal hybrid, that's 80 years old tops, that first appeared with that movie. 

The earliest known 'Werewolves' by any respect turned into full-blown wolves, but they retained all their human cognition and personality, and it would have been a test of skill and morality to not kill somebody (which was a requirement to turn back). And to be clear, this version of Werewolves is a few thousand years old, being Greek in Origin with some Roman myths like this. Other incarnations dropped the idea of actually turning into a wolf entirely, being either possessed by insanity that drove them to believe they were a wolf or projecting their spirits into the form of wolves. Granted the 'insanity' version were violent murderers, but many of the 'spirit Werewolves' are outright heroic, with the ability being either granted or permitted by God to slay evil. Sure most of these were still men, but that can be largely attributed to most mythology being a sausage fest. 

Wolves in general were feared, yes, but also greatly respected for much of human history, given how 'fact of life' there being wolves around was. It's only really when British settlers who had driven wolves out of England then landed in America and got very suddenly reacquainted that the image of wolves being completely monstrous showed up. Before this Wolves held many different symbolic forms, but one was a symbol of Motherhood and Fertility, thanks to the she-wolf that raised Romulus and Remus (and in turn the Jungle book, and it's become a pretty common trope from there). So for a she-wolf frame to have fairly sizable 'symbols of motherhood and fertility' is pretty on brand for wolf symbolism.

DE have often liked subverting or referring to less obvious aspects of mythology when creating frames. Whilst Revenant does clearly struggle to juggle both his Eidolon and Vampire themes, within the latter he more largely draws upon Vampires being seductive (in the mind-control sense), near-unkillable shapeshifters than their more conventional blood associations, which Garuda ties in to. So DE drawing upon the older 'Spirit Wolf' depiction of a Werewolf for their take on the concept is far from unusual.

 

I will give that the wolf skull body armour seems a bit much though.

[Abisma-Lunoire]

There are some good names out there. I want to add too!

I personally like:

Lyca, Lykha(Laika) for Lycanthrope
Amoux french for eagle wolf which made me think of 'Werewolf in Paris' orz
Ylva (I think it would be nice to have another Y name to keep Yareli from being lonely XD.. but I also like the sound "Eel-vah")

but I love:😍
Bardoul (meaning axe wolf or axe-wielding wolf)
Skoll/ Hati (Wolf that chases the sun/ Moon) I like these for weapon names as well 

[(XBOX)UndeadNidhogg]

2 hours ago, CypressEDF said:

I've seen a lot of hype for the new wolf inspired warframe next up on release, and I want to be so excited for the frame, but everytime I see more news about her, the more I feel like DE baited me to be hyped and then switched out what I wanted for something else.  I have a few points and I wanted to start some discussion on the matter, get some input and see if there's anything I'm missing.

 

1.) What makes a werewolf? 

Werewolfs have always been a symbol of an inner beast, a physical manifestation of pure masculine, beastial rage (That doesn't mean all werewolves are male, but masculine in nature).  So to me, when a game like warframe creates characters based on a well known theme, I have the expectation they honor the details of that theme.  One of the major aspects of a werewolf is transformation, the beast is usually hidden in an unsuspecting or elegant form to contrast their vicious beast form.  The frame we're getting removed that aspect, already that feels like a disregard for the theme.  Secondly, when talking about representing a theme, this frame should be male, each frame's gender is symbolic of their theme, equinox for example is purely female, yet her night form is more feminine and her day form is more masculine just like the lore behind yin and yang.  So what you're representing a werewolf by theme, a feminine appearance doesn't make any sense, it feels disrespectful they gave our werewolf the Mesa treatment and turned our wolf into an overly busty erotic model.  That's not what werewolves are about.  They clearly know this because the foil to a werewolf, a vampire, was done correctly seductive when Garuda released.

 

2.) Appearance:

When a fan created the Fenrir art (link at bottom) for a werewolf frame I was hyped out of my mind because it looked like the perfect blend of werewolf and warframe.  Even the name felt right with how many mythological names are in the game.  But then DE released their consept art...and I found myself looking at a boney creature with dragon skulls for armor.  How is that anything like a werewolf?  The art looks downright incredible, outstanding really, but not as a werewolf.  I would be unbelievably happy if she was released in a two part Christian lore theme, where she is a demon and the next frame is an angel.  It would both fill out more mythological themes and match the art.  But I digress, Hildryn looks more like a werewolf than what's currently being teased.  The designer or Fenrir, anzuarden_art hit the mark spot on, in normal form Fenrir has an elegant almost regal appearance, but as a beast, every attribute is accentuated and more vicious.  Instead of the amazing contrast in both gameplay and fashion frame, we only have one fixed appearance and it looks nothing like a werewolf to me.

 

3.) Gameplay impact:

When Titania released, she added and entirely new play style to normal mission nodes.  We could now take the interesting but under utilized arching gameplay and use it on any mission, amazing.  A werewolf frame should have done the same.  If transformation was implemented (like they have already done with Titania) they could create a new way to experience combat and a new form of movement.  While something as drastic as crawling on walls like a xenomorph would be hard to implement, something like volts speed mixed with a Goliath leap from evolve and something like a kubrow run would make for something unique and fresh.  DE said many times they didn't want to make another Valkyr, yet the werewolf wouldn't need to be, instead of a single button hack and slash, they could flesh out his melee, make unique ground pounds, grabbing enemies, combos, howls and jaw focused moves and make him totally unique from her.  Furthermore his designe could have been the inverse to Baruuk, like having a meter build up with the more violence and bloodshed you cause, maybe the transformation is uncontrollable and happens when the meter is full, though I would prefer it not to be it still would have been better than the generic unwolf like thing DE is showing us.

 

In short, I'm angry with the current concept because it feels like a bait and switch, they teased a werewolf and gave us nothing of the sort, killing all the potential of what he could have been for both a werewolf and the art Joe Mad made.  His picture is worthy of a unique hellhound or enchantress or demon, but instead their forcing in a wolf concept.  I seem to be the only one feeling lied to and just want to hear if anyone else agrees with this; and if you disagree feel free to let me know on what points and why.  Is there a bigger picture I'm missing?  Because I think a werewolf should have combined elements from Titania, Baruuk, Styanax/Atlas(summoning companions/pack), and fresh mechanics, but now none of this is coming.

https://twitter.com/anzuarden_art/status/1430582016186019844

Someone has a werewolf obsession, and therefore isn't gonna be happy no matter what DE does here because "I know werewolves best, not YOU DE. See all MY werewolf posters and MY werewolf pajamas!? My mommy bought me these and your werewolf doesn't look like that so I'm not happy."

[(PSN)Cargan2016]

22 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

The earliest known 'Werewolves' by any respect turned into full-blown wolves, but they retained all their human cognition and personality, and it would have been a test of skill and morality to not kill somebody (which was a requirement to turn back). And to be clear, this version of Werewolves is a few thousand years old, being Greek in Origin with some Roman myths like this. Other incarnations dropped the idea of actually turning into a wolf entirely, being either possessed by insanity that drove them to believe they were a wolf or projecting their spirits into the form of wolves. Granted the 'insanity' version were violent murderers, but many of the 'spirit Werewolves' are outright heroic, with the ability being either granted or permitted by God to slay evil. Sure most of these were still men, but that can be largely attributed to most mythology being a sausage fest. 

 

Yeah I was hoping for something like this when they first announced the next frame was going to be a werewolf I was imagining a 2nd or 3 ability that turned us into a kuburow.

 

And if want an actuall traditional werewolf in recent media just look at twilight( yes i know cringe)  but Jacob and them where very much your traditional werewolfs

[DeckChairVonBananaCamel]

1 hour ago, (PSN)Cargan2016 said:

How is leaching life from target not vampire like that is literally the entire premise of vampires period that is not open for interpretation

garuda is like modern vampire interpretations like blade. its all "blood blood blood" all the time
 

Revenant is the other stuff, his 1st and 2nd are two different sides of mind manipulation, his 3rd is mistform which as @sunderthefirmament said is pretty classic.
... his 4th is a sparkly lightshow which lets face it, thats twilight 😂

[(PSN)Cargan2016]

2 minutes ago, DeckChairVonBananaCamel said:

garuda is like modern vampire interpretations like blade. its all "blood blood blood" all the time
 

Revenant is the other stuff, his 1st and 2nd are two different sides of mind manipulation, his 3rd is mistform which as @sunderthefirmament said is pretty classic.
... his 4th is a sparkly lightshow which lets face it, thats twilight 😂

even his 4th could be considered a classic traditional ability in a way as some have a distract and redirect ability the "light show"  is just a game design trope as they do redirect incoming damage back into the beams.  something similar really was about only way they could of had that ability translate into game and stay on theme,  Do i agree with decision to make it hay look im a moving disco decoration no but that was De's decision and didnt exactly ask my input

[(XBOX)DragonMan 2700]

30 minutes ago, Abisma-Lunoire said:

There are some good names out there. I want to add too!

I personally like:

Lyca, Lykha(Laika) for Lycanthrope
Amoux french for eagle wolf which made me think of 'Werewolf in Paris' orz
Ylva (I think it would be nice to have another Y name to keep Yareli from being lonely XD.. but I also like the sound "Eel-vah")

but I love:😍
Bardoul (meaning axe wolf or axe-wielding wolf)
Skoll/ Hati (Wolf that chases the sun/ Moon) I like these for weapon names as well 

 

Yay those are pretty nice. The name my heart desires is Lykra 💗 

 

This is going to be her axe, and I think your suggestion of Bardoul is the perfect name for it👌 

[(XBOX)DragonMan 2700]

Dam I L💗ve this art, I hope they make a t-shirt of her gonna buy that day one.