Spawn Rates - PCHost - Some Questions

[jeopardy2808]

Hello my fellow Tenno!

Because of another topic here in the forum someone told me, that the spawn rate of enemies is depending on the host i am connecting to.

If i connect to a PCHost (or i start a new session as PCHost) the session has a higher spawn (normal) rate of enemies.

If i connect to a "CrossplayHost" like PS, XBOX or Switch, the spawn rate is reduced.

One Tenno told me yesterday that even if i am able to make a group of 4 PC-Players (1PCHost) the spawn rate is still reduced due to the
fact that crossplay is activated. Is that true?

Because i have seen some comments of  Console-Players that they have a higher spawn rate of enemies if they are lucky to join a session with a PCHost.

So what is actually true?

Should i deactivate crossplay to have a higher spawn rate (i see differences while focus farming SO/ESO) or does it even matter because if i
am the host of a game as PCHost the other players will benefit from it due to higher spawn rates on Switch, Xbox, etc.?

I am not selfish and if others can benefit from it that i play on PC ok why not.  But being "downgraded" just because of CrossPlay activated is
not so cool.

[(XBOX)C11H22O11]

Only last gen console hosts should be giving you reduced spawn rates like PS4, Switch and Xbox one.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

if you switch off crossplay, you might struggle to get squads at all; people have mentioned that before, and no squads means fewer spawns anyway.

the crux of the issue is this: with crossplay enabled, everyone needs to be using hardware of the same level for consistent spawns, but that's not possible currently because some people will be on top end PCs and current gen consoles, while others will be running potatoes and last gen consoles that simply can't handle it. the only way to truly solve the issue is to bite the bullet and drop support for older hardware, which would then allow everyone who can still play to play the game at peak performance: DE could also then safely up the spawns without having to worry about systems being fried. 

the downside of course is that if you're one of the unlucky sods with yesteryear's systems, you're forced to either upgrade or get left behind: it's not nice, but at some point, something like this is gonna happen; no game can be supported on every platform forever. at some point it will be in warframe's interest to drop older console systems and raise the PC minimum spec requirements, maybe when PS6 comes out along with whatever PC gamers have at that point.

it won't be anytime soon... but it IS gonna happen eventually. 

[RLanzinger]

To @jeopardy2808,

First, the most sure way is to find out by yourself !

How ? 🧐

Here the less complex way to find out quantitatively :

1-Start Warframe (to have a clean EE.Log)

2-Go to ESO (greater spawn rate)

3-Do a 6-8 waves missions then exit

4-You can count the number or kill OR betterway : look at the spawn rate in EE.LOG

• Open you navigator (Firefox)
• Go to the EE.log directory (%localappdata%\Warframe\EE.log)
• Open the EE.log
• Look for (Ctrl-F) the terms "AI [Info]: OnAgentCreated /Npc/"
• Any a bit advanced text editor will give you the numbers of occurrences
• By scrolling manually you can see the highlighted spawns

Redo it with PC players with/without crossplay ... the compare

Here an example tracking an ESO bug :  On left High consecutive spawn rates, at Right : Low burst of 3 Spawn rates

 

About What I experience about spawn rates :

-MAX Spawn rates depend on the host only; It IS a lot lower on Switch because the machine performance cannot handle more enemies and ESO are easier to do... (less to kill). Having a switch host mean less enemies and in consequence less spawn rates (nothing new here).

-Normal Spawn rates depend on How fast you and your mates can kills the enemies :

• Having high ping limit mean players are a bit slower, slowing down the kills rate/spawns rate (network at fault)
• Having high end consoles players as hosts or players usually don't slow much unless on openworld.
• Having Crossplay active mean a bit more tolerance in PING implying a bit more ping/lags which will slowing down the spawns (network at fault)

=> Crossplay is not usually at fault (unless having 2-3 host migration), the network IS !!!

If you want to avoid network issues, use the minimal Ping Limit but as usual, you will have less players to play with and a bit more host mig / SOLO play.

If you want to play with friends (on invite) use the maximal Ping Limit to avoid host migration but as usual, you will less fps / more lags.

[SneakyErvin]

1 hour ago, jeopardy2808 said:

One Tenno told me yesterday that even if i am able to make a group of 4 PC-Players (1PCHost) the spawn rate is still reduced due to the
fact that crossplay is activated. Is that true?

That part is false, it fully depends on the host. And it is only last gen consoles that result in a lower spawn rate.

So the best suggestion would be to have crossplay active and just leave any mission with a last gen host when you notice it and want a higher spawn rate. There are cases where I dont care, like if I do defense, excav or so on. I really only care if I run survival or ESO in groups. For defense I'd honestly prefer last gen spawns, since it would mean quicker waves.

[jeopardy2808]

I really love the fact that the relays are full of people and when i only want to have fun being less efficient (ESO, Survival) it is totally fine this way.

I won't deactivate crossplay for that....


But farming focus (ESO, i am not good at this stealth version) i would rather prefer in deactivating it to max the efficienty.

Thank you for your answers!

[(XBOX)Cotton Tail]

2 hours ago, (PSN)robotwars7 said:

i

the crux of the issue is this: with crossplay enabled, everyone needs to be using hardware of the same level for consistent spawns, but that's not possible currently because some people will be on top end PCs and current gen consoles, while others will be running potatoes and last gen consoles that simply can't handle it. the only way to truly solve the issue is to bite the bullet and drop support for older hardware, which would then allow everyone who can still play to play the game at peak performance: DE could also then safely up the spawns without having to worry about systems being fried. 

the downside of course is that if you're one of the unlucky sods with yesteryear's systems, you're forced to either upgrade or get left behind

I agree that this would seem to be the logical conclusion - a similar pattern seen across many IT systems. However, I wonder how DE would square this with the port of the game to mobile? As far as I know that’s still going ahead. I’m a bit out of the loop these days but I’d be surprised if mobile can match next gen consoles. 

[(XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom]

2 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

And it is only last gen consoles that result in a lower spawn rate.

Yea no. Got a Series X and it's still noticeable, especially when you actually compare kill rates. Console still caps at ~110 solo KPM, when PC can push 170 solo KPM.

[Tiltskillet]

1 hour ago, (XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom said:

3 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

And it is only last gen consoles that result in a lower spawn rate.

Yea no. Got a Series X and it's still noticeable, especially when you actually compare kill rates. Console still caps at ~110 solo KPM, when PC can push 170 solo KPM.

 

Thanks very much for testing this.

I'm curious what you know about if and how platform affects defense missions.  Is spawn rate throttled at all on console?   Does console have to clear fewer enemies?  Does the best wave completion time seem any different?

[(XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom]

2 hours ago, Tiltskillet said:

I'm curious what you know about if and how platform affects defense missions.  Is spawn rate throttled at all on console?   Does console have to clear fewer enemies?  Does the best wave completion time seem any different?

I'm not sure of the specifics with Defense. Testing enemies spawned shouldn't be too hard, just need a PC player to provide some numbers to compare with.
A round 5 solo Hydron with Gara spamming Mass Vitrify took 111 sec, with 113 enemies killed (20, 21, 23, 24, 25 killed per wave respectively).
Another round 5 one took 117 sec with 112 enemies killed (21, 22, 21, 23, 25 killed per wave respectively).

[Tiltskillet]

6 hours ago, (XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom said:

I'm not sure of the specifics with Defense. Testing enemies spawned shouldn't be too hard, just need a PC player to provide some numbers to compare with.
A round 5 solo Hydron with Gara spamming Mass Vitrify took 111 sec, with 113 enemies killed (20, 21, 23, 24, 25 killed per wave respectively).
Another round 5 one took 117 sec with 112 enemies killed (21, 22, 21, 23, 25 killed per wave respectively).

I did one of these on PC.  116 enemies: 21, 22, 23, 23, 27.  I'm ashamed to share my time, so it still could be spawn rate is throttled

[(XBOX)C11H22O11]

7 hours ago, (XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom said:

I'm not sure of the specifics with Defense. Testing enemies spawned shouldn't be too hard, just need a PC player to provide some numbers to compare with.
A round 5 solo Hydron with Gara spamming Mass Vitrify took 111 sec, with 113 enemies killed (20, 21, 23, 24, 25 killed per wave respectively).
Another round 5 one took 117 sec with 112 enemies killed (21, 22, 21, 23, 25 killed per wave respectively).

I keep getting 116 kills, did it with Lavos, Saryn and Gara( I meant that I did the mission 3 times with each of these frames solo)

[SneakyErvin]

22 hours ago, (XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom said:

Yea no. Got a Series X and it's still noticeable, especially when you actually compare kill rates. Console still caps at ~110 solo KPM, when PC can push 170 solo KPM.

Are you 100% sure and taking all differences between PC and Console into consideration here? Tested it on nearly the same tile layout? Compared controller vs controller on the two different platforms and so on? There is already quite a difference between tile layout, and when you factor in paraphernalia differences the KPM is also impacted. A KB/M setup should naturally allow for a higher KPM thanks to much higher reaction and movement speed overall.

[(XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom]

2 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Are you 100% sure and taking all differences between PC and Console into consideration here? Tested it on nearly the same tile layout? Compared controller vs controller on the two different platforms and so on? There is already quite a difference between tile layout, and when you factor in paraphernalia differences the KPM is also impacted. A KB/M setup should naturally allow for a higher KPM thanks to much higher reaction and movement speed overall.

Survival tests where literally Khora vs Khora. No movement or reaction speed needed. Same tilesets.

[Tiltskillet]

14 hours ago, (XBOX)C11H22O11 said:

I keep getting 116 kills, did it with Lavos, Saryn and Gara( I meant that I did the mission 3 times with each of these frames solo)

What generation of console?

It seems like a better comparison might be SP Hydron.  It could be the total spawns for base Hydron are just not an issue for platform, whereas maybe they would be with the SP spawn modifier.

[(XBOX)C11H22O11]

2 minutes ago, Tiltskillet said:

What generation of console?

It seems like a better comparison might be SP Hydron.  It could be the total spawns for base Hydron are just not an issue for platform, whereas maybe they would be with the SP spawn modifier.

Series X

[jeopardy2808]

Hey!

I deactivated "Crossplay" just to test the spawn rate - and it is true - Spawnrate is "much" higher with only PCHosts.

BUT: When i join a relay now...i mean....what the hell? it looks like i am playing this game alone...and when i activate CrossPlay again
i only see ConsolePlayers.........

 

[SneakyErvin]

19 hours ago, (XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom said:

Survival tests where literally Khora vs Khora. No movement or reaction speed needed. Same tilesets.

But was it actually on the same tile setup, same connecting corridors and so on, same camp spot over a course of tests etc? The flow of a map does alot on the end result. And with the LoS added to Khora, reaction time is a factor, since you cannot just hit a wall anymore. And was it the same loadout and build on both platforms?

[(XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom]

26 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

But was it actually on the same tile setup, same connecting corridors and so on, same camp spot over a course of tests etc? The flow of a map does alot on the end result. And with the LoS added to Khora, reaction time is a factor, since you cannot just hit a wall anymore. And was it the same loadout and build on both platforms?

You don't need the exact same everything to notice a huge difference. Now here's the counter question for you. How do you know (at least think) that current gen consoles don't have reduced spawns.

[SneakyErvin]

1 hour ago, (XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom said:

You don't need the exact same everything to notice a huge difference. Now here's the counter question for you. How do you know (at least think) that current gen consoles don't have reduced spawns.

You kinda do when we can already notice a big difference alone on the same node with the same loadout but with a different tile layout. I'm not saying you are right or wrong, I'm asking if you've actually considered all factors and tested it all out for enough samples to go on.

And I "know" since I havent experienced a noticable drop in spawns when some consoles host, while I notice a massive difference with others. Either that means that defense, excav, interception and disruption follow different spawn limitations, or all consoles aside from PS5 are treated as last gen. 

[(XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom]

6 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

You kinda do when we can already notice a big difference alone on the same node with the same loadout but with a different tile layout. I'm not saying you are right or wrong, I'm asking if you've actually considered all factors and tested it all out for enough samples to go on.

Here, go do SP Elara for 20 min, staying in the small spawn tileset (not the big one). Use you cheesiest loadout or w/e, then say what your KPM was.

Elara has only 2 spawn tiles and both have extremely consistent spawns.

[SneakyErvin]

4 minutes ago, (XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom said:

Here, go do SP Elara for 20 min, staying in the small spawn tileset (not the big one). Use you cheesiest loadout or w/e, then say what your KPM was.

Elara has only 2 spawn tiles and both have extremely consistent spawns.

How would that solve anything when I'm a PC player questioning a claim about next gen console spawn rate testing? 🤔

I cannot physically test what you claim, hence why I ask you how much and how properly you actually tested it to arrive to the conclussion you did. Whatever I can do on PC is just data for PC spawn rates.

[(XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom]

4 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

How would that solve anything when I'm a PC player questioning a claim about next gen console spawn rate testing? 🤔

I cannot physically test what you claim, hence why I ask you how much and how properly you actually tested it to arrive to the conclussion you did. Whatever I can do on PC is just data for PC spawn rates.

So I can compare my KPM obviously. You need 2 numbers to compare after all. You want everything to "be the same", so I'm willing to indulge. Elara is the most consistent survival tileset. Unless you don't want to actually test claims.

[AegidiusF]

Il y a 22 heures, Tiltskillet a dit :

It seems like a better comparison might be SP Hydron.  It could be the total spawns for base Hydron are just not an issue for platform, whereas maybe they would be with the SP spawn modifier.

Le 13/04/2023 à 21:19, (XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom a dit :

A round 5 solo Hydron with Gara spamming Mass Vitrify took 111 sec, with 113 enemies killed (20, 21, 23, 24, 25 killed per wave respectively).
Another round 5 one took 117 sec with 112 enemies killed (21, 22, 21, 23, 25 killed per wave respectively).

Le 14/04/2023 à 03:58, Tiltskillet a dit :

I did one of these on PC.  116 enemies: 21, 22, 23, 23, 27.  I'm ashamed to share my time, so it still could be spawn rate is throttled

I don't think that a Defense is the best for comparisons about enemy spawn. I've tested too, both on normal mode (21+22+23+24+27 = 117) and Steel Path mode (60+63+66+66+72 = 327), solo, no specters. On normal mode, I got the same enemy spawn as you : 117. We should perhaps be testing it on Steel Path Survivals, what do you think ?

Here are the screen captures :

[Tiltskillet]

1 hour ago, (NSW)AegisFifi said:

I don't think that a Defense is the best for comparisons about enemy spawn.

It's just a separate question.  With Defense's odd success conditions I was curious if it played faster, slower, or the same with console hosts, all else being equal.