The Steel Path Circus

[Kaiga]

 

For the steel path circuit being the main repayable meat of the Duviri update, it would be much less of a clown show with a couple of pretty straightforward tweaks:

-Finally fixing the host migration bugs: Jimmy in Montana losing connection when a plane flies over shouldn't mean your hour+ of work is lost and you're stuck as duviri drifter until everyone quits

-Less RNG: having at least one weapon or frame from a curated list would make this mode 200 times better, and avoid the "game decides you suck" problem that prevents this from being an actual endgame mode.

EDIT: some of the people in the replies are claiming bad rng complaints are simply high MR players who sold everything whining- remind me how a fully built stug, yareli, and ripkas does against levelcap enemies, again? You could have everything built in the game and still get terrible rolls, and have objectively less fun than someone who actually gets to use the gear they've spent the last 5 years fine tuning, this is a stupid whataboutism point that doesn't address the core issue of most of the masterable content being not comparable in performance to the current meta requirements. "Just build everything in the game and pretend it's endgame viable, duh!" This is a very silly response.

-Defense being fail-able shouldn't throw the entire hours long run away: the riskyness of defense objective health scaling being the most difficult part of the mode is ridiculous, as is your progress not counting. You did the work, you should get the rewards you did earn, but not the part you failed. 

 

And a few other things like eximus actually dropping riven slivers, thrax actually having a weakness, enemies working correctly when mind controlled/thralled, but those are the big three.

[CosmicHermitCrab]

Yeah, BugFrame has been an issue in Warframe's history of major patches, even in the past (first open world) Cetus Plains update. I suggest playing it with friends (premade) or solo like me, less bugs that way for some odd reason.

Folks might counter-argue that it's a F2P game, but then I'll respond back, "Why even get hyped then?"

[Alukawaii]

Personally, I prefer that they improve the Warframe with control abilities, that the Eximus are affected by the Warframe's abilities even if it is for 50% of the time, best for high levels, my limit was level 800 in circuit sp, having a squad that is separated both in control, defense and attack is ideal

[CosmicHermitCrab]

18 minutes ago, Alukawaii said:

Personally, I prefer that they improve the Warframe with control abilities, that the Eximus are affected by the Warframe's abilities even if it is for 50% of the time, best for high levels, my limit was level 800 in circuit sp, having a squad that is separated both in control, defense and attack is ideal

Sounds like the old undo eximus rework complaint. I have to admit though, that's not a bad idea, except it's based on RNG. So for players that do later game content, the change won't do enough for either direction.

Crowd control was very meta in the era of Trials/Raids, but raids no longer exist now.

So the current meta now is more inclined to self-dmg-buffs, some form of survivability such as invisibility, and certain debuffs on enemies (such as nezha's warding halo for making enemies receive more damage), and taking advantage of certain status procs.

The thing was, there was an old meta where you could stun-lock enemies from doing anything, even during LoR trials, so you don't need to kill enemies at all, but still have to finish the related objectives. I think DE disliked this, so they did the eximus rework.

The thing is though, there are very few abilities that only have usefulness for crowd control. Even frost's ultimate now has a use besides just freezing enemies.

So I think the best solution to this current "eximus rework" problem is just reworking warframes or buffing their control-crowd-abilities to have additional effects besides just only CC.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

1 hour ago, Kaiga said:

thrax actually having a weakness,

they do have a weakness, it's called "armor stripping then hitting them until they die. chances are either 1 out of your 5 frames or one out of your 8 weapon choices will be somethign decent, and then you've also got decrees. if an armor stripping item comes up, take it and go to town on those Thrax.

[kamisama85]

1 hour ago, Kaiga said:

-Finally fixing the host migration bugs: Jimmy in Montana losing connection when a plane flies over shouldn't mean your hour+ of work is lost and you're stuck as duviri drifter until everyone quits

Instead of waiting for a solution, form a party with actual friends you can rely on, or go alone. Yeah I'm sure you're tired of hearing people say "go solo" by now. But you can either sit around waiting and being frustrated or just man up and get the job done. You're not wrong to be frustrated about host migrations, but this has been a known problem since the start of the game. Play in a pub and risk it, or form a group with friends that have reliable computers and internet, or go alone.

 

1 hour ago, Kaiga said:

-Less RNG: having at least one weapon or frame from a curated list would make this mode 200 times better, and avoid the "game decides you suck" problem that prevents this from being an actual endgame mode.

The problem is not the RNG. The problem is you have created an enormous pool for yourself for the game to choose from by racing to Legendary 3 and throwing everything into the closet to rot. Why race to LR3 if you are not going to bother raising the proficiency of weapons or frames? MR16 is about as high as you need to be for actual access to content. But you are in this mess now, and your best way out of this is to actually spend the time and customize the weapons to have at least the important build no matter how basic. Decrees will take those weapons to the next level without having to forma them. You simply need to set them as the infantile version of a fully forma'd build and let them be available with the necessary stats to multiply with decrees in the circuit.

 

1 hour ago, Kaiga said:

-Defense being fail-able shouldn't throw the entire hours long run away: the riskyness of defense objective health scaling being the most difficult part of the mode is ridiculous, as is your progress not counting. You did the work, you should get the rewards you did earn, but not the part you failed. 

Know your own limits, and know the limits of your party. That is your responsibility. Just because you might be a little bit proficient, does not mean your random party will be up to your level nor should they have to be. You should know when you need to quit out and come back to restart the circuit. Instead of trying to squeeze peanuts worth more of EXP out per extra round in the long run, just restart when it looks like the next round will probably be your last and take your win and leave. If you aren't willing to go with a pre-made party or solo, then it's not going to be in your control how your round plays out if you aren't accepting the risks that come with it.

 

1 hour ago, Kaiga said:

And a few other things like eximus actually dropping riven slivers, thrax actually having a weakness, enemies working correctly when mind controlled/thralled, but those are the big three.

I got around 140 riven slivers alone in SP last weekend during the boost period alongside 130 steel essences in a 1.5 hour session alone. If you aren't getting riven slivers at all, you need to reevaluate how you are farming. Kill more monsters, get more drops. This includes riven slivers. You might need to take a closer look at just how fast you are actually killing enemies. if you are struggling to do so, then back to the drawing board for you.

As for Thrax, if you aren't able to slap them with a few hits on SP and kill them, then that's probably why you are also struggling with riven sliver farming. Sounds like you need to go back and actually review your knowledge of your arsenal, builds, and then apply that to circuit as well.

 

 

 

 

[trst]

Host migration is always going to be an issue to some extent. Best they could probably do is implement the failsafe they use for Fissures where you can get the Prime drops sent to your inbox and apply that to Circuit progress.

Reducing the RNG element that much defeats the entire point of it and the Decree system. Players could just fill that list with gear that's level cap viable and ruin the entire mode. Meanwhile Decrees already make nearly everything viable for a lengthy run.

And Defense is the only fail state of the mission type and it was already nerfed to be harder to fail. Remove it's fail state, or remove it entirely, and they'll need to add it in elsewhere. Especially when the mode can effectively play itself thanks to Decrees.

[Voltage]

This is most of my feedback for this mode:

I can't really think of anything more important. Honestly; the randomized equipment is surface level compared to the larger elephants in the room.

[(PSN)GEN-Son_17]

1 hour ago, kamisama85 said:

Instead of waiting for a solution, form a party with actual friends you can rely on, or go alone. Yeah I'm sure you're tired of hearing people say "go solo" by now. But you can either sit around waiting and being frustrated or just man up and get the job done. You're not wrong to be frustrated about host migrations, but this has been a known problem since the start of the game. Play in a pub and risk it, or form a group with friends that have reliable computers and internet, or go alone.

 

The problem is not the RNG. The problem is you have created an enormous pool for yourself for the game to choose from by racing to Legendary 3 and throwing everything into the closet to rot. Why race to LR3 if you are not going to bother raising the proficiency of weapons or frames? MR16 is about as high as you need to be for actual access to content. But you are in this mess now, and your best way out of this is to actually spend the time and customize the weapons to have at least the important build no matter how basic. Decrees will take those weapons to the next level without having to forma them. You simply need to set them as the infantile version of a fully forma'd build and let them be available with the necessary stats to multiply with decrees in the circuit.

 

Know your own limits, and know the limits of your party. That is your responsibility. Just because you might be a little bit proficient, does not mean your random party will be up to your level nor should they have to be. You should know when you need to quit out and come back to restart the circuit. Instead of trying to squeeze peanuts worth more of EXP out per extra round in the long run, just restart when it looks like the next round will probably be your last and take your win and leave. If you aren't willing to go with a pre-made party or solo, then it's not going to be in your control how your round plays out if you aren't accepting the risks that come with it.

 

I got around 140 riven slivers alone in SP last weekend during the boost period alongside 130 steel essences in a 1.5 hour session alone. If you aren't getting riven slivers at all, you need to reevaluate how you are farming. Kill more monsters, get more drops. This includes riven slivers. You might need to take a closer look at just how fast you are actually killing enemies. if you are struggling to do so, then back to the drawing board for you.

As for Thrax, if you aren't able to slap them with a few hits on SP and kill them, then that's probably why you are also struggling with riven sliver farming. Sounds like you need to go back and actually review your knowledge of your arsenal, builds, and then apply that to circuit as well.

 

 

 

 

This!

I think players try too hard to remove personal inconveniences instead of properly preparing themselves. We FINALLY get an opportunity to test how good our collection is and I'm enjoying witnessing some of my less used weapons being able to still pack a punch, especially with the decrees in the mix. I also enjoy the punishment for mistreating my arsenal and getting worked for it, praying I can last long enough to get the decree combination needed to fix my laziness. It's freakin AWESOME!!

[Kaiga]

18 hours ago, kamisama85 said:

MR16 is about as high as you need to be for actual access to content. But you are in this mess now, and your best way out of this is to actually spend the time and customize the weapons to have at least the important build no matter how basic.

Your replies assume a silly amount about me, and everyone else with similar complaints and are very skill issue hand-wavey so I'll get to the point, particularly with this-

The circuit is not unplayable anymore. It is perfectly doable, but it doesnt have to suck in the ways it does, which is the point of the thread, if you bothered to read instead of just going "wahh baby MR3 don't know his limits".

I've done all of these suggestions and the game still gives me godawful rolls, which are godawful not because I don't have them built properly (I do, the one thing you got right is that I am actually legendary 3 and have all of my items built to reasonable completion with getting them in the circuit in mind), but because these things aren't viable against approaching level cap enemies, regardless of how you build them or what decrees you get. Again, the point of the thread.

The melees are the one exception to this, as the melee decrees offer a giant amount of power, but your fun shouldn't hinge on getting a frame that can leverage rolling guard and shield gating or not against levelcap enemies. Survivability is the chief concern deep into the circuit, and that does limit the number of viable frames and setups. 

18 hours ago, kamisama85 said:

The problem is you have created an enormous pool for yourself for the game to choose from by racing to Legendary 3 and throwing everything into the closet to rot

"Just build everything in the game and pretend it's endgame viable!"

This point is immensely stupid because it doesn't matter what MR you're at, you'll get the random items anyway and with lower levels, you don't even have the ability to customize them. I also didn't do this, so again, big L🤷‍♀️

I know youre invested in this, but stop trying to defend every lazy or bad design decision DE has made in the 5 years it took to produce this update by saying "well the player just needs to do x to play around it!".

It is possible with not much and good luck, even the operator cheese, but it's an unreasonably annoying for something that should have been thought through a long time ago. That's the point. 

[CosmicHermitCrab]

Um, guys, you can literally solo SP Circuit (for about 9 rounds) with just a customized Operator alone...just saying, it's not that impressive to overcome.

That said, I think they should add more mechanics to make SP Circuit more forgiving with its randomness for newer players, such as extra Duviri intrinsics can be another form of currency for buying random loadout rerolls. SP mode doesn't necessarily have a gate against newbies, too. (Full live run of the SP Circuit Mission with only Operator in Video's Description)

Might as well satisfy the casual playerbase, like we usually have done, since you can easily cheese it with the operator.
 

[(PSN)slightconfuzzled]

Agree a little, disagree a little. 

Host migration bugs are the worst, Often out of players control, and even some players can unintentionally, or even intentionally screw over others. Had one Host that decided to stay... until the literal last second, and then leave. The other three players, we got bugged, and lost our rewards. If the Host had to leave, sure, thats fine, we probably would have extracted as well, just choose to leave, so we know, and have warning. So we can leave too, or risk the Host migration. That being said, these are clearly bugs, we know DE at least wants to try and fix them. Ideally they could be faster, but ideally a lot of things would happen. Fully agree either way. 

Hmm, maybe. A part of me thinks that the RNG is what makes the mode. We also already do get options/choices, its not completely RNG. Too much choice in such a game mode could destroy its challenge/difficulty. I acknowledge people have different ideas and perceptions of fun, priority, challenge, and so on. I just think a curated list would add more unnecessary complications and issues. Like hypothetically, if a majority of players only used curated weapons, then a lot of design and intent behind the mode arguably disappears. You might as well just make the mode ESO. Now, questioning and disagreeing with the intent and design behind the mode, and what it wants to do, sure, thats also fine, just at some point the discussion becomes about what is feasible/practical. Like I have friends who just don't like farming/grind games, can't really do much to change that, but its fine to question/critique, just... its more of an abstract/game wide conversation. 

Likewise, contentious, I acknowledge and understand some of the issues and complaints. To myself though? If Defence is next and you don't think you can handle it? Sign for you to extract. If you want to risk it? Then risk it. Also solo? Well then its just understanding and knowing your own limitations. Maybe the mode isn't designed so you push it to Round 20. If you get back luck with RNG and Decrees and don't feel confident and like you might loss progress? Leave. In a group? Risks involved, you might feel like prior example, but you might want to Communicate with the rest of the team. Or observe them, use your game knowledge to make a decision. Some of my builds I had, had potential, but knew I needed certain Decrees to make work, at least as far as to be super optimal. I knew my team mates could "carry" till then though. Sometimes its vice versa. Like i know the Banshee with an Attica might not be able to output as much DPS as the Saryn with an Arca Plasma. Its fine. Communicate with your team, "Yo, I think we should leave, unless any of you guys think otherwise?" or "Defence might be tough, but my build is set up for it, we can do it". Basically you have to think about it and not just blindly click "Next". Players have control here, they decide to risk or not. (Bugs notwithstanding)

People have different ideas of what end game means, and what it wants from players. So end game to me, in Warframe, is largely subjective. Game going, these weapons suck, but you are a end game player right? Well use your knowledge of synergy, weapons weaknesses, and strengths, enemy behaviour, movement, and somehow make it work. We'll even throw in a sweetener for you, with Decrees. Which may actually made the mode easier for you... Who knows, its RNG, your experience will change around a bit, try and adapt each time. That sounds decently end game (not the be all to end all of end game, but decent). 

[(PSN)GEN-Son_17]

1 hour ago, CosmicHermitCrab said:

That said, I think they should add more mechanics to make SP Circuit more forgiving with its randomness for newer players, such as extra Duviri intrinsics can be another form of currency for buying random loadout rerolls. SP mode doesn't necessarily have a gate against newbies, too. (Full live run of the SP Circuit Mission with only Operator in Video's Description

I don't think you can't access SP Circuit without clearing the star chart. I that is incorrect, then I definitely would not want to make it easy for new players to get their hands on rewards that powerful. It should be well earned through completing the base game and learning more about the game through the quests. Otherwise, what's the point of it all?

[CosmicHermitCrab]

5 minutes ago, (PSN)GEN-Son_17 said:

I don't think you can't access SP Circuit without clearing the star chart. I that is incorrect, then I definitely would not want to make it easy for new players to get their hands on rewards that powerful. It should be well earned through completing the base game and learning more about the game through the quests. Otherwise, what's the point of it all?

The max level in clearing the basic star chart is level 40. If you want to have a requirement or gate for SP while making it inaccessible from newbies, there should be a much harder requirement/s.
I agree though a little bit near the end of your post, it doesn't feel like there's much point in farming most things in Warframe, currently.

[(PSN)GEN-Son_17]

5 minutes ago, CosmicHermitCrab said:

The max level in clearing the basic star chart is level 40. If you want to have a requirement or gate for SP while making it inaccessible from newbies, there should be a much harder requirement/s.
I agree though a little bit near the end of your post, it doesn't feel like there's much point in farming most things in Warframe, currently.

The levels don't matter like that. The whole point of clearing the chart to access all of the quests in order to have access to endgame, aka SP. There's a whole world of info and experience to be had for those new players. I cannot even fathom what hour 1 even looks like considering I'm probably over 3500.

[CosmicHermitCrab]

29 minutes ago, (PSN)GEN-Son_17 said:

The levels don't matter like that. The whole point of clearing the chart to access all of the quests in order to have access to endgame, aka SP. There's a whole world of info and experience to be had for those new players. I cannot even fathom what hour 1 even looks like considering I'm probably over 3500.

Yeah, I can relate to the 1 hour thing, I have over about 5.7k of hours, atm. However, it's hard to find folks to play with, just for companionship, if they themselves are struggling a lot with the content you are carrying them thru. What makes Warframe different from most Online Multiplayer Games is that a veteran can play most forms of content together with a newbie and they both enjoy it and gain useful rewards from it. I suffered from so many players quitting the game because they couldn't figure out how to make plat or overcome an obstacle in the game.

Warframe announced in many patch notes that one of their core game philosophies is to have later game modes that can be accessed by casual players, such as Tricaps (Eidolons in Cetus Plains Night Cycle). This view that SP Circuit needs to have a gate against casual players undermines this game philosophy from DE that they want to enforce from early on.

Because of this, in a way, it's the very reason why folks often say the endgame is FashionFrame and there's no true endgame per se.

So what's it going to be, DE? Do you want a game focused on casual gameplay or endgame? You tried doing both and it's not really working out now...

[CosmicHermitCrab]

1 hour ago, (PSN)slightconfuzzled said:

People have different ideas of what end game means, and what it wants from players. So end game to me, in Warframe, is largely subjective. Game going, these weapons suck, but you are a end game player right? Well use your knowledge of synergy, weapons weaknesses, and strengths, enemy behaviour, movement, and somehow make it work. We'll even throw in a sweetener for you, with Decrees. Which may actually made the mode easier for you... Who knows, its RNG, your experience will change around a bit, try and adapt each time. That sounds decently end game (not the be all to end all of end game, but decent). 

I like the thinking behind this. Reminds me of my idea to make it to that the players can customize their default loadouts on all Warframes/Weapons. That way the "best players" playing in Circuit are the ones that know how to mod their gear properly and not just being MR Legend 3 with most gear min-maxed like me. Newbies have been complaining the default loadouts of the said weapons and warframes are what's trash the majority of the time, not the actual items. DE was responsible for providing us with premade default loadouts because they want to save time in picking the items, but I think this is the wrong direction for this roguelike game mode; the players should choose their good/bad mod loadouts on weapons/warframe of RNG choice. Warframe has always been a game more in regards to taking advantage of knowledge than skill.
Just keep the current default mod loadouts in the circuit mode, and allow the players to actually remod that same default loadout during and before the cave instance.

 

[(PSN)AyinDygra]

The Circuit, for all the "if you want Warframe content from the update, just do this mode" hype, falls flat for me as well, and some of those changes would help remove some of the pesky, nagging, wrongnesses imbedded in the very concept of the mode.

In particular, the combination of the randomness of frames and weapons making it impossible to plan for your run and potentially coordinate with a pre-made team, which is what most end-game type activities require of members, is completely impossible. Combined again, with the increased fragility of the Defense target innate to being the target of steel path buffed enemies, being the crux failstate for part of the endless mode being something that you can't always do anything about (given the random frames and weapons, you can't guarantee enemies won't destroy the defense target.)

The host migrations have been a sore spot for a long time now, increased with cross-play, for whatever reason. For an "endless mode", host migrations are even worse than the rest of the game. Losing all the things you've collected is painful punishment for something out of your control, not even due to a loss of the game mode. This combined with defense being one of the objectives, with the notes I made above, makes it feel even worse. I will also add that the "choice" screen, to either stay or leave, is much too fast. It doesn't give anyone time to think, and if you get your attention taken away by real life for a moment, you can miss it. Also, it feels really bad to be the only person deciding to pull out of an endless mode, while the rest choose to move on... and since there is no way for the game to let in other people to replace you, as the others continue, it's even worse.

The Circuit takes a bunch of the worst elements of Warframe, and magnifies them and their significance greatly.

(I also think the fail state of endless missions shouldn't wipe out all of your progress, just the progress on the stage that you failed. That's always felt entirely wrong to me, and punishes pushing your limits, rather than encouraging people pushing... playing safe.)

[Veridian]

The only point I agree with is that de should fix how the Host migration and connection issues bug the entire thing.

Leave rng alone. A lot of this complaining only proves how so many L3 rushed through MR blindly.

Why do I always get at least 1 viable weapon? Simple, because I have at least 1 copy of every weapon family with at least half upgraded and I'm not trying to "game" the game by throwing gear away.

As for defense.

Did we reach the point where everyone should be getting a participation trophy in gaming?

If anything, I'd like to see more modes with a fail state. Where's the excitement if I'm just ticking off objectives for 7000 points? 

My least favourite is survival tbh, since it's just 5 minutes of trying to stay awake.

 

Also, please stop using the word work. This isn't working, this doesn't even involve much of an effort.