Circuit Reward Offerings This Week + Next

[Cerikus]

25 minutes ago, Naroxas44 said:

This is likely because the more egregious bugs need to be fixed from a coding perspective.

Exactly. I already said this somewhere, but I will repeat it. Everyone wanted crossplay. Now we have it. Let's enjoy it.

What people experience now was the standard for consoles. Console players always had to wait multiple days and even weeks for fixes, because CERT.
Now we all have to enjoy it, because we wanted the crossplay so much.

25 minutes ago, Naroxas44 said:

I think they need to re-plan and approach how they're fixing bugs

There is nothing to replan. It's unfeasible to deploy a new build that requires a cert for every bug separately. I will try to explain.

Now we have version 33.0.14. Let's say you have a fix for 1 bug out of 10 reported. Okay, you make a build 33.0.15 and send it to cert.
AND NOW YOU WAIT. It really depends on various circumstances. Supposedly it takes at least a day or even two. 
After two days 33.0.15 must release. At that point you can of course have a build 33.0.16 with other fixes and send it to another cert.
And you wait. And you repeat. Everyone has to have everything ready for a new build every 2-3 days and everyone is under constant pressure of this cert cycle.

OR

You work for some time, focus on fixing as much as possible, not wasting time releasing partial builds and you fix it all in one big pile of fixes and changes.
You release it all when you know it fixed everything you were able to patch and you know it's a stable build.

I don't work at DE, but I think I know what I would choose....

Edited June 8, 2023 by Cerikus

[Nekomian]

26 minutes ago, Cerikus said:

There is nothing to replan. It's unfeasible to deploy a new build that requires a cert for every bug separately.

That's not what I meant by re-plan or approach, I don't think anyone is expecting cert builds that frequently. I'm referring to the actual decision of which bugs are addressed and fixed in the builds themselves because they will be staggered, the planning and priority of fixes (planning can also include which teams address what, or how the workload is distributed). It is always more efficient from a development perspective to package them all together in the one build, but just "fixing as much as possible" is not the same as "fixing the issues that are most severe or that people are having the most". I hope that clarifies my intent with that.

Edited June 9, 2023 by Naroxas44
clarifications

[Cerikus]

36 minutes ago, Naroxas44 said:

I hope that clarifies my intent with that.

Oh I get it now. I see. Well I never noticed them witholding fixes for bugs. I've seen them being unable to find a solution fast. And often there are bugs that are very difficult to discover during testing. Depends on how they actually do it and we will never know that.

Edited June 9, 2023 by Cerikus

[Silligoose]

18 hours ago, Cerikus said:

Well then we are just arguing semantics, because afaik shelved means put on hold indefinitely. It's a big difference.

Indeed. Shelving something can mean putting something on hold temporarily or permanently. It was a minor point of contention which should be resolved now.

18 hours ago, Cerikus said:

Fair point, however there is one big difference. Nintendo, Square Enix and many others we could cite are selling their games. The profit of course comes from microtransaction (if their game has them), but also from people buying the game. Once you buy The Legend of Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom for example, they got your money. DE must "convince you" to play the game, stay and spend money, which you never have to actually do. It's kinda different. Warframe is a live-service f2p game. It MUST produce new content and DE cannot stagger development too much, because otherwise it's a big problem. If this game wasn't releaseing updates often, it would fail. Nintendo or Square Enix or whoever can delay much easier, because people will buy the game anyway. 

Different games use different business models, but brand loyalty (in the case of devs who develop b2p titles/expansions) and player retention (more so in the case of GAAS games, although also applied to b2p games to an extent depending on the devs plans eg expansions, battle passes etc) are important factors to consider and they go hand in hand with player sentiment. Player sentiment and brand loyalty/player retention are impacted positively with good releases and are impacted negatively by releases of poor quality. Again, these are fundamentals that apply to many a company outside the gaming space as well. 

Other companies using other business models also need to convince players to play their game. Other companies using other business models also cannot stagger development too much. These issues are not unique to DE, nor are they unique to F2P games. F2P business models such as the one DE uses does, however, grant some advantages when compared to the more old school b2p model by taking advantage of certain psychological tendencies that impact human behaviour and decisions, such as the sunk cost fallacy. This in turn allows them to get away with worse quality content updates than the b2p model.

DE's content releases have become rather poor and Duviri is an embarrassment when it comes to the sheer amount of blatant bugs, which is my main focus in this thread.

[Felsagger]

4 hours ago, Silligoose said:

These issues are not unique to DE, nor are they unique to F2P games. F2P business models such as the one DE uses does, however, grant some advantages when compared to the more old school b2p model by taking advantage of certain psychological tendencies that impact human behaviour and decisions, such as the sunk cost fallacy. This in turn allows them to get away with worse quality content updates than the b2p model.

DE's content releases have become rather poor and Duviri is an embarrassment when it comes to the sheer amount of blatant bugs, which is my main focus in this thread.

Completely true. 

Solutions. 

1. Play test more the update. Don't show anything until some degree of quality is SECURED. 

2. Bring in few extra play testers, let them publish and let the people react to the content created. This insight prior to launch is very important. DE decides what sticks and what doesn't considering the reaction of the public. 

3. Listen to the community on the real topics such as intrinsic vs extrinsic. This is fundamental for the replay value of the game. QoL in the game matters. 

4. The F2P model is inferior to the B2P model because it let developers get away with buggy launches and inconsistent content. Bungie is a prime example. 

[Cerikus]

51 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

Solutions. 

1. No one will disagree with you on that. The more testing they do the better. But you can't delay updates forever. I admire that you are willing to wait and I support it as well, but the amount of salt everywhere, when something gets delayed, is high.

In a different thread I gave a reality check: Currently there are 55k players. In one hour we generate 55k hours of gameplay and can give feedback on it. How many people would DE have to employ to generate that kind of "testing" in an hour?

2. NO.

f this forum and the open comunication DE created with their playerbase is a testament to something, it's that this playerbase doesn't know what it wants. It's too fragmented, everyone likes something else.

Rebecca apperently has a vision for the game and she follows it. If the vision is good... only time will tell, but the ONLY way the players should give feedback is here on forums based on released content they played.

3. Sure. And I think they do that.

4. I laughed out loud... You can't be serious. Are you saying B2P won't let devs get away with buggy launches??? In a world where people are stupid and they preorder everything?

Should we mention the lastest debacle Gollum? Or many others from the past? 

Edited June 9, 2023 by Cerikus

[Felsagger]

7 minutes ago, Cerikus said:

1. No one will disagree with you on that. The more testing they do the better. But you can't delay updates forever. I admire that you are willing to wait and I support it as well, but the amount of salt everywhere, when something gets delayed, is high.

A mature player understand that good things takes time and testing. Fair delay is ok if it is going to do more good than harm. Duviri was launched prematurely. Fact. 

7 minutes ago, Cerikus said:

In a different thread I gave a reality check: Currently there are 55k players. In one hour we generate 55k hours of gameplay and can give feedback on it. How many people would DE have to employ to generate that kind of "testing" in an hour?

Launching a bugged update leaves a lot to be desired. Presentation matters. 

7 minutes ago, Cerikus said:

2. NO.

f this forum and the open comunication DE created with their playerbase is a testament to something, it's that this playerbase doesn't know what it wants. It's too fragmented, everyone likes something else.

Yes. 

A public opinion matters. Gives an idea of a possible agreement on things and is more honest action with the public. This is a phase that can be done when the whole idea is assembled. DE decides when. 

7 minutes ago, Cerikus said:

Rebecca apperently has a vision for the game and she follows it. If the vision is good... only time will tell, but the ONLY way the players should give feedback is here on forums based on released content they played.

Many minds thinks better than one mind. That is if DE is interested in listening genuinely the community. 

7 minutes ago, Cerikus said:

3. Sure. And I think they do that.

No they don't. They let us write things here. That doesn't mean they are listening. 

Listening means amendments of mistakes, corrections, improvement, positive editing, quick responsiveness on relevant issues and so on. This is a player assisted game. 

7 minutes ago, Cerikus said:

4. I laughed out loud... You can't be serious. Are you saying B2P won't let devs get away with buggy launches??? In a world where people are stupid and they preorder everything?

B2P model has consequences if the developer fails. 

In the F2P model the developer can get away with many things they can't with the B2P model.

7 minutes ago, Cerikus said:

Should we mention the lastest debacle Gollum? Or many others from the past? 

People can simply read and wait. Use their judgment, common sense and their intellect. These are valid alternatives we have in our arsenal. 

[Cerikus]

21 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

Duviri was launched prematurely.

Duviri was already delayed a lot. And no it wasn't launched prematurely. Compared to other Warframe updates from the past, Duviri release was smooth and without huge issues. Also you didn't answer my question. How many people should DE employ, you think?

21 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

A public opinion matters.

Where did I say it doesn't matter. I want people to give feedback. However thinking developers should activelly discuss development with players is an idiotic idea.

21 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

No they don't. They let us write things here. That doesn't mean they are listening. 

Will examples like Archon shard pity system or them reworking Soma incarnon, because community thinks it should be better, Or should I listed hunder other things DE implemented, becuase players suggested it? Just because your idea wasn't implemented, doesn't mean they are not listening. Maybe your suggestion was simply not good enough.

21 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

People can simply read and wait.

Can, but won't. Many people pre-order and will continute to do so, especially because of the FOMO tactics B2P games use to lure in players. Once you pre-order, they have your money and the game can be trash.

F2P has to actually work and "convince" you that you spending money is worth it. They can either have a good gameplay (warframe) or they can use insidious tactics like gacha, lootbox or direct gambling.

Edited June 9, 2023 by Cerikus

[Felsagger]

34 minutes ago, Cerikus said:

Duviri was already delayed a lot. And no it wasn't launched prematurely. Compared to other Warframe updates from the past,

Duviri release was smooth and without huge issues.

Yes it was launched prematurely. Look the amount of hotfixes and how big few of these are. 

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Update_33

The amount is way too much. That says something about Duviri. 

34 minutes ago, Cerikus said:

Also you didn't answer my question. How many people should DE employ, you think?

I can't answer that question because that is something DE developers must determine and solve. 

34 minutes ago, Cerikus said:

Where did I say it doesn't matter. I want people to give feedback. However thinking developers should actively discuss development with players is an idiotic idea.

"Bring in few extra play testers, let them publish and let the people react to the content created. This insight prior to launch is very important. DE decides what sticks and what doesn't considering the reaction of the public. "

I never said that the player should discuss development with the players anywhere in this sentence. I talked about reactions and how people feel when something is substantially completed. Few details and ideas can improve further what happened. This can give the advantage to delay further or simply clean up the mistakes. No one suggested changes during the development process. That is your interpretation. 

34 minutes ago, Cerikus said:

Will examples like Archon shard pity system or them reworking Soma incarnon, because community thinks it should be better, Or should I listed hunder other things DE implemented, because players suggested it? Just because your idea wasn't implemented, doesn't mean they are not listening. Maybe your suggestion was simply not good enough.

If my ideas were excluded or not that doesn't matter. We are talking about how things are IMPLEMENTED. It's a critique that could help developers refine the vision. Suggestions doesn't make a game better but refinement on the implementation and necessary adjustments on parameters can make the game better for the players. 

34 minutes ago, Cerikus said:

Can, but won't. Many people pre-order and will continute to do so, especially because of the FOMO tactics B2P games use to lure in players. Once you pre-order, they have your money and the game can be trash.

Again, people are responsible to use their common sense, patience, analysis and common sense. If people falls for FOMO tactics then they are the ones to blame for their faults. Using the brain matters. Doesn't hurt using their brain or does it? 

Pre order is a mistake. If people do it, that is on them not the B2P system. 

34 minutes ago, Cerikus said:

F2P has to actually work and "convince" you that you spending money is worth it

Rail Jack Launch. There. 

34 minutes ago, Cerikus said:

They can either have a good gameplay (warframe) or they can use insidious tactics like gacha, lootbox or direct gambling.

The so called RNG selector of Warframes and weapons we do not like in Duviri? This is why I prefer B2P games. I know what I will get out of the box when the game is played and reviewed. 

[--SS--Optimizer]

En 5/6/2023 a las 15:25, Mediloric dijo:

You make it sound like the heat death of the universe is going to happen next week. 🤨

No that... maybe a car crash... maybe cancer... or something? someone being mugged or get shoot? 😶 who knows, in this place everything is fun, but life is not only that. But well, I don't want to talk about it anyway, sorry if someone found the comment aggressive, it is not my intention

[Ze_LoBoToMiZeUr]

Il y a 2 heures, .Optimizer a dit :

No that... maybe a car crash... maybe cancer... or something? someone being mugged or get shoot? 😶 who knows, in this place everything is fun, but life is not only that. But well, I don't want to talk about it anyway, sorry if someone found the comment aggressive, it is not my intention

...I mean, to each their own, no offense,  but I hope that you have more important things to do on your to-do-in-a-life list that are more important than an incarnon, because I know that I do and even on my deathbed, incarnon stuff would be the least of my concern

[(PSN)IdoThea]

On 2023-06-06 at 9:26 PM, Packetdancer said:

FWIW, the released list of Warframes available via normal Circuit was put onto the wiki page -- you can check it here. It's week 6 that got bugged out, so next week the normal-mode cycle resumes with week 7; it loops after week 11, going back to the first week. (Which, presumably, will now work properly.)

just got missing Ivara parts yesterday lol so no need to wait for it now. first I got chassis from void fissure spy mission also got ash prime systems so that was double luck. 

Then decided that might as well try to get neuroptics since it's only piece missing and went straight to Pluto Proxima Spy and I was sure I'd have to run that mission couple times but after completing neuroptics popped up as reward. 

nice to feel blessing of RNGesus.

[(NSW)Super_Kami]

The Steel Path Circuit was reset but the normal circuit for augments has continued? Will this change again next week?

[(PSN)les2zamours]

On 2023-06-05 at 7:54 PM, [DE]Megan said:

Tenno!

Sunday night, we confirmed reports that the Circuit rotation did not roll over and was a duplicate of the previous rotation.

After discussing a resolution this morning, the team has decided to keep this week as a duplicate, as many of you are working towards those rewards and wish to continue. Next week it will rotate as intended.

Apologies for the blip in the rotations!

 

* To clarify some confusion, the next rotation will be Week 1 rewards.

I was laughing so hard I decided to make a post, thank god I was wrong. 

Edited June 19, 2023 by (PSN)les2zamours

[SykoticTX]

6 minutes ago, (PSN)les2zamours said:

BUGGED AGAIN, ahahahahahhahahahah, will y'all continue to suck DE's toes? or realise they can't get their game right? 

No. It just took a few minutes to flip over. It's all good and we are on Week 2 rotation now. Everyone go get your Latron adapters. 

[(PSN)les2zamours]

1 minute ago, SykoticTX said:

No. It just took a few minutes to flip over. It's all good and we are on Week 2 rotation now. Everyone go get your Latron adapters. 

had to restart the game here, but yeah,  one of the best week is here

Edited June 19, 2023 by (PSN)les2zamours