Circuit Reward Offerings This Week + Next

[SpicyDinosaur]

14 hours ago, _Anise_ said:

awsome that I need to find out about these things from the forums xD

why make it so you have to uninstall them ? why not just make them unlimited uses ?

Why would you need them to be? Or are you just looking for reasons to complain, because that's what it sounds like. You cry foul, someone notes that you are wrong and don't have to worry about the problem, and you scramble for some other thing to complain about. FFS.

 

Worst case scenario is something that didn't have a prime gets primed and you have to collect 20 more pathos clamps and a few resources and do 5 tiers of SP circuit. Is that really that unbearable? If so why do the content to begin with?

 

And considering these forums are where DE posts almost the entirety of info they give us outside of devstreams, yes, you do have to go to the forums to find things out, Satan forbid!

[Cerikus]

22 hours ago, Silligoose said:

1) No other solution is realistic in your opinion. You are welcome to that opinion, but I do not agree.

2) What is your point regarding "backseat devs" then? You don't like bugs, but you also don't like people who talk about how some of the bugs demonstrate incompetence, or how the devs could improve their GAAS? 

It could have been handled better. It could have been handled worse. I do not agree that DE's approach was "the most reasonable and fair" from a player's perspective. I do believe it to be yet another reason to not have a lot of faith in DE anymore. We've reached an impasse.

My point regarding "backseat devs" is about people claiming how easy it is to fix something. It's simply ridiculus. Maybe it is easy, but you don't work there, you have no idea how it's coded and why the bug happened.

Okay then. How? How it could have been handled? What would you do?

[_Anise_]

4 hours ago, SpicyDinosaur said:

Why would you need them to be? Or are you just looking for reasons to complain, because that's what it sounds like. You cry foul, someone notes that you are wrong and don't have to worry about the problem, and you scramble for some other thing to complain about. FFS.

yet you scramble to complain about me ? ok they are making it so they can be removed  good great ! even awesome !

It was just my thought process, "they are making it so you can remove them" my head goes to "so why have them limited in the first place ?" because it genuinely fugging baffles me!! and I like answers, because "god forbid" I find information interesting !

somewhere in the design process they decided to add incarnon adapters, in the process they also decided that these adapters can go into normal and prime weapons, so there must have been consideration that someone may put one of these in a regular weapon? then if a weapon variant is release or they upgrade they might want it in the better version of the weapon? knowing that made these adapters intentionally limited use and NOT reusable at the time

(which the game tells you NOWHERE, just like half the stuff you need to find out from the forums or the wiki or even testing it in game, this expansion has been in development for over 3 years)

so am I allowed to think and question stuff ?

also not "wrong" because I didn't read some random post somewhere saying they will eventually make it so you can remove them, it was correct in terms of what was currently available at the time of writing in game! (remember modular archwing and third orb boss !  Soon™)

you don't need to white knight

Edited June 7, 2023 by _Anise_

[SpicyDinosaur]

5 minutes ago, _Anise_ said:

o am I allowed to think and question stuff ?

No, never. That was the point I was making.

 

You still don't need more than one of each type if they are removaeble. And it would be minimal effort to get another one in case you wanted one for like the braton prime and the braton vandal.

 

After 1.7k forum posts you should know this forum and the wiki (and the subreddit, as well, to a great degree) are where info is obtained. That or watching the dev streams. Some stuff they put in game in the news terminal but that just links back to the forums.

 

Also, I didn't really scramble, just responded in exasperation after each post you made, upon learning something you didn't know, was completely negative as if DE was personally insulting you or something. And it's not that some negativity isn't justified at times with DE, but in this case your problems were being responded to with good news, and each successive response was as if DE was acting out of malice with any changes.

[_Anise_]

2 minutes ago, SpicyDinosaur said:

You still don't need more than one of each type if they are removaeble. And it would be minimal effort to get another one in case you wanted one for like the braton prime and the braton vandal.

exactly why I question it being removable ? they are dedicating development time to making it so you can pull it out ? when its easy to get a second one ..

so I ask again, why not just make them unlimited use ?

[--N--]

2 minutes ago, SpicyDinosaur said:

Also, I didn't really scramble, just responded in exasperation after each post you made, upon learning something you didn't know, was completely negative as if DE was personally insulting you or something.

I don't think @_Anise_'s response (to me) was "completely negative". It's a fair question to ask why the incarnons aren't just unlimited use, one time unlocks. IMHO they don't need to be, being one time use is consistent with the rest of the game (potatoes, forma etc.), and being able to uninstall them is good enough for the common use case of upgrading to the prime/better version of the weapon.

As for cases like Braton Prime and Braton Vandal, I think it's fair to require you to farm two adaptors if you want both weapons to be upgraded.

[_Anise_]

8 minutes ago, --N-- said:

.

I think that response stated my curiosity, I guess they don't want people to do extra work if they upgrade weapons to prevent them sitting on adapters rather than using them but still want them to walk the extra mile if they plan to keep both weapon variants !

Edited June 7, 2023 by _Anise_

[Silligoose]

24 minutes ago, Cerikus said:

My point regarding "backseat devs" is about people claiming how easy it is to fix something. It's simply ridiculus. Maybe it is easy, but you don't work there, you have no idea how it's coded and why the bug happened.

Okay then. How? How it could have been handled? What would you do?

Some bugs are easy to fix. One doesn't need to be employed by the developer in order for comments regarding bugs to be considered valid. 

I gave an example of a solution in my second post on pg 8.

 

[Cerikus]

19 minutes ago, Silligoose said:

Some bugs are easy to fix. One doesn't need to be employed by the developer in order for comments regarding bugs to be considered valid. 

I gave an example of a solution in my second post on pg 8.

Yeah... your comment is valid, but that doesn't mean it's necessarily true in this case.

I read your solution. So... Did I understand that you would want the team to create a new UI element?

Are you sure? Because for that to work there would have to a be a UI element that would open up a promt, where it would ask you what you want. Then it would have to adjust your account based on your preference, adjust the whole Circuit and award you the points and the rewards without breaking anything or losing your progress.

They paused hotfixing because of the upcoming update, but you would forget that and pull people that handle UI to create the element, programers to code the thing, people who handle writing of texts to do their job. Then you would give all of it to the people who would adjust it for all 4 platforms. You would send this whole thing to cert. You would wait for Sony and Microsoft and Nintendo to approve it, so you could release it. Hoping all of it actually happens before Friday, because if not, you've wasted hours of people's labor. You would stagger progress on the new update for several days, because that's the good solution?

Damn.

 

[Silligoose]

3 minutes ago, Cerikus said:

Yeah... your comment is valid, but that doesn't mean it's necessarily true in this case.

I read your solution. So... Did I understand that you would want the team to create a new UI element?

Are you sure? Because for that to work there would have to a be a UI element that would open up a promt, where it would ask you what you want. Then it would have to adjust your account based on your preference, adjust the whole Circuit and award you the points and the rewards without breaking anything or losing your progress.

They paused hotfixing because of the upcoming update, but you would forget that and pull people that handle UI to create the element, programers to code the thing, people who handle writing of texts to do their job. Then you would give all of it to the people who would adjust it for all 4 platforms. You would send this whole thing to cert. You would wait for Sony and Microsoft and Nintendo to approve it, so you could release it. Hoping all of it actually happens before Friday, because if not, you've wasted hours of people's labor. You would stagger progress on the new update for several days, because that's the good solution?

Damn.

 

As stated previously, I believe the solution I presented is better for players.

No, I did not forget DE decided their player base deserves so little respect that Hotfixes have been shelved and players should just endure the myriad of bugs.

You are talking about elements so basic kids are taught how to do it in their first year of programming, yet you try to make it sound as though it is a massive project 🤣

[Cerikus]

7 minutes ago, Silligoose said:

As stated previously, I believe the solution I presented is better for players.

In a magical land of make belive. I agree with you. Yeah. It's better. True. Can you consider that it may be unrealistic to actually do?

8 minutes ago, Silligoose said:

No, I did not forget DE decided their player base deserves so little respect that Hotfixes have been shelved and players should just endure the myriad of bugs.

They weren't shelved. It's been only what? 7 business days? Do you know that it's problematic to hotfix while preparing a CERT build? I never wanted crossplay exactly because of this. On consoles this was absolutely the standard. PC players now have to get accustomed to this as well, because releases have to submit to the CERT process.

13 minutes ago, Silligoose said:

You are talking about elements so basic kids are taught how to do it in their first year of programming, yet you try to make it sound as though it is a massive project 🤣

Yes, it is easy and basic, but it actually has to be done.... Like... Do you understand that even the easy thing has to be done by real people? That those people I listed have to stop working and do this other thing? That's why people in the leading positions have to consider what is worth doing and what is not.

I admire that you would stagger the development to implement something that you consider best for players, but company cannot be run like that.

[HazelMeade]

On 2023-06-05 at 7:34 PM, MrGrimm150 said:

I just refuse to get the Sibear incarnon because I refuse to acknowledge the Sibear exists. That cryotic cost is just a hallucination, no one would think that's a reasonable amount of cryotic. Its just a mass hallucination.

Oddly enough Darvo has Sibear on "sale".

[(XBOX)sinamanthediva]

Really people is this rather obscure debacle ruining anyone's life to such a degree that will require years of therapy to deal with the horrors of having the same Incarnon choices for one additional week? No!  I am just glad DE even acknowledges their mistakes at this point because many more game breaking bugs have been put in a list yet somehow get ignored for whatever reason.  It's a slight inconvenience  or annoyance to have the cycle not follow the given parameters we were told but it's not worthy to  the degree of woe that I have endured in this post.  I'm totally fine with not distracting DE from their goal of providing a plethora of bug fixes and hopefully a less than usual bug filled upcoming content release.  I don't feel qualified to say how "easy" or "hard" it may be to change the selection of Incarnon weapons being that we are midway thru the week already and my life will go on with little to no discomfort with no changes being made to the current options.  I think at this point we should pick up the shattered pieces of our lives and move on.

It's gonna be ok everyone, breathe!

2 hours ago, HazelMeade said:

Oddly enough Darvo has Sibear on "sale".

Hmmm coincidence or just pure random luck....we may never know!

[ Insert suspenseful music here ]

[SocccPrime]

On 2023-06-05 at 3:11 PM, Mr.Holyroller said:

do you and other people who complain realize that many people either dont have any issues or very quickly seek the work-arounds to minor inconveniences?

please explain the math on how its "not just an extra week"

bugs on release are bad. they're bad for every game, but there's not much that you can do as a consumer aside from boycotting the game.
also, as far as DE's track record, Duviri wasnt even in the top 10 for most buggy updates. (to this day im not sure anything has topped Update 14. maybe im forgetting something else)

so those people that did still have issues are somehow discredited or discounted? As someone who was doing steel path week one, and the various weeks after you're absolutely coping that issues didn't exist because there were multiple hotfixes immediately that discredit your thought process. Also they weren't minor, connection issues, duviri defense objectives instantly deleting, run ending softlocks all existed during week one.  

 

Because what you're looking at in a vacuum is the week itself and not how many weeks have to pass for a rotation to return. Its 6 weeks worth of weapons so at minimum a month and a half for stuff to return. Add on any bugs or extensions and that gets extended further. So for that to be extended further is frustrating because unlike the people who get to enjoy doubling up on stuff they want we get to wait.   

3. Bugs on the release are to be expected, but there's a difference between the occasional errors you can get around and stuff that soft locks your experience or straight-up ends your runs.   Those are things that a significant amount of players on the forum excuse under the pretense of "its hard to be a developer you do not know how it is", but for me that's just a cop-out to excuse the lack of care that goes into Q&A testing for things that shouldn't ever enter the live realm or be patched immediately.  And that's not speaking to the smaller issues, just the ones that are noticeable to the average player who opens the game and tries to experience it.  I don't care about earlier updates being buggier, it's great that they are getting better at testing things.  I've seen and witnessed significant patches and thats not something I ignore either.  What I care more about is maintaining the expectation that major issues like this don't crop up in the future through proper rollouts.  End of the day, there's no use crying over spilled milk and I only engaged to express my frustrations because its a public forum and I'm equally entitled to as much as you are to be here.  

[SocccPrime]

1 hour ago, (XBOX)sinamanthediva said:

Really people is this rather obscure debacle ruining anyone's life to such a degree that will require years of therapy to deal with the horrors of having the same Incarnon choices for one additional week? No!  I am just glad DE even acknowledges their mistakes at this point because many more game breaking bugs have been put in a list yet somehow get ignored for whatever reason.  It's a slight inconvenience  or annoyance to have the cycle not follow the given parameters we were told but it's not worthy to  the degree of woe that I have endured in this post.  I'm totally fine with not distracting DE from their goal of providing a plethora of bug fixes and hopefully a less than usual bug filled upcoming content release.  I don't feel qualified to say how "easy" or "hard" it may be to change the selection of Incarnon weapons being that we are midway thru the week already and my life will go on with little to no discomfort with no changes being made to the current options.  I think at this point we should pick up the shattered pieces of our lives and move on.

It's gonna be ok everyone, breathe!

Hmmm coincidence or just pure random luck....we may never know!

[ Insert suspenseful music here ]

Can you not exaggerate and downplay stuff as if they arent issues? Its something gaming communities do way too much of and it gets old because people only think their experiences matter.  End of the day DE isn't going to do anything further and people acknowledge this, its just weird seeing these type of comments. 

[(XBOX)sinamanthediva]

36 minutes ago, SocccPrime said:

Can you not exaggerate and downplay stuff as if they arent issues? Its something gaming communities do way too much of and it gets old because people only think their experiences matter.  End of the day DE isn't going to do anything further and people acknowledge this, its just weird seeing these type of comments. 

What are you even talking about?  I never said I liked it nor did I say it was NOT a problem.  The point was that it's wed and people are still demanding a different option than what DE has offered which I find as pointless, just like your own words " End of the day DE isn't going to do anything further"  So not sure what your point is exactly.  I am sorry you can't recognize sarcasm and exaggeration as humorous. If you want to label it as weird that is your prerogative.  I just feel there are more important "bugs" that should be corrected first before I grab my pitchfork and march because the Incarnon Weapons are out of order. (another example of my weird sense of humor and apologize if you don't find it amusing)  Comedy is not my profession, clearly.

Have a pleasant tomorrow!

[Nekomian]

6 hours ago, Silligoose said:

You are talking about elements so basic kids are taught how to do it in their first year of programming, yet you try to make it sound as though it is a massive project 

So I've tried to read up on some of the context of this thread (without drowning in the pit of salt lol), and a few of yours stood out to me. While it's true that a lot of the basic principles and elements are straight forward (i.e. add new UI textbox, prompt user for thing, etc.) and handled by boilerplate code and existing engine code, making sure they all function together appropriately at scale is a lot different than first year Java program or whatever. I read your proposed solution, and while it's not bad it's not necessarily feasible for them due to the constraints that game studios have (mainly strict deadlines and cert issues). By the time they would have this implemented (not physically coded, but actually in the public build) the week would be passed, so it's essentially not good use of limited dev time for this specific issue vs the other options presented (or the option they chose).

I'm also not trying to defend or excuse the buggy messes that are present - I've been pretty vocal that they need to provide more QA and testing if time between patches is going to increase due to unified build parity. I'm glad they're keeping the community informed on some of the fixes, but honestly I'd wish they'd take some time to have an entire patch just focused on long standing or game breaking bug fixes (TWW looping, Yareli in general right now with Merulina, numerous loss of functionality issues, etc.). Unfortunately, it's not the best immediate ROI, but it is important to long-term player and game health to address them.

That said, I do understand that has its own challenges - having to unit test all 52 frames with 1000s of mods interactions (not even including decrees, arcanes, ability buffs, etc.) and like 500 weapons is not really feasible at scale, and one change in a later patch can break something that was working prior (which means ideally they'd want to test everything every mainline update to detect that). There's so many mechanics and systems in this game now that every time they introduce a new one it feels destined to break functionality somewhere. That doesn't mean they shouldn't try though, and there's definitely no shortage of bugs or reports that they could start to address. I don't believe any dev team actively wants to sabotage themselves or their player base, but rather it's usually some constraint (time or prioritization of other content is common) that prevents them from doing everything they'd like.

They definitely need to reassess their workflow internally to avoid constant buggy releases or some negative feedback loop occurs; no update will be free from bugs (nor should anyone have that expectation of a perfect build), but there's a certain threshold of tolerance for them and when there's a large amount of them they can affect player gameplay experiences negatively.

[Silligoose]

13 hours ago, Cerikus said:

In a magical land of make belive. I agree with you. Yeah. It's better. True. Can you consider that it may be unrealistic to actually do?

Good. It has been considered from point of writing.

13 hours ago, Cerikus said:

They weren't shelved. It's been only what? 7 business days? Do you know that it's problematic to hotfix while preparing a CERT build? I never wanted crossplay exactly because of this. On consoles this was absolutely the standard. PC players now have to get accustomed to this as well, because releases have to submit to the CERT process.

Hotfixes have been shelved, ie (at least) temporarily put on hold. 

13 hours ago, Cerikus said:

Yes, it is easy and basic, but it actually has to be done.... Like... Do you understand that even the easy thing has to be done by real people? That those people I listed have to stop working and do this other thing? That's why people in the leading positions have to consider what is worth doing and what is not.

I admire that you would stagger the development to implement something that you consider best for players, but company cannot be run like that.

The reallocation of resources (incl manhours) is not a foreign concept within companies, both within the development space and outside of it.  Ever hear of a company called Nintendo EPD? They "stagger development" even if it leads to delays in releases. Ever hear of Square Enix? Same thing. It is done by many, if not most. Some companies try to take too many shortcuts, leave alone too many bugs, all to make a deadline and then we get Redfall. We get LOTR: Gollum. Embarrassing releases that affect player sentiment negatively. Warframe seems to inch ever closer to those titles and player sentiment takes hit after hit.

[Cerikus]

11 minutes ago, Silligoose said:

Hotfixes have been shelved, ie (at least) temporarily put on hold. 

Well then we are just arguing semantics, because afaik shelved means put on hold indefinitely. It's a big difference.

12 minutes ago, Silligoose said:

The reallocation of resources (incl manhours) is not a foreign concept within companies, both within the development space and outside of it.  Ever hear of a company called Nintendo EPD? They "stagger development" even if it leads to delays in releases. Ever hear of Square Enix? Same thing. It is done by many, if not most. Some companies try to take too many shortcuts, leave alone too many bugs, all to make a deadline and then we get Redfall. We get LOTR: Gollum. Embarrassing releases that affect player sentiment negatively. Warframe seems to inch ever closer to those titles and player sentiment takes hit after hit.

Fair point, however there is one big difference. Nintendo, Square Enix and many others we could cite are selling their games. The profit of course comes from microtransaction (if their game has them), but also from people buying the game. Once you buy The Legend of Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom for example, they got your money. DE must "convince you" to play the game, stay and spend money, which you never have to actually do. It's kinda different. Warframe is a live-service f2p game. It MUST produce new content and DE cannot stagger development too much, because otherwise it's a big problem. If this game wasn't releaseing updates often, it would fail. Nintendo or Square Enix or whoever can delay much easier, because people will buy the game anyway. 

[Silligoose]

8 hours ago, Naroxas44 said:

So I've tried to read up on some of the context of this thread (without drowning in the pit of salt lol), and a few of yours stood out to me. While it's true that a lot of the basic principles and elements are straight forward (i.e. add new UI textbox, prompt user for thing, etc.) and handled by boilerplate code and existing engine code, making sure they all function together appropriately at scale is a lot different than first year Java program or whatever. I read your proposed solution, and while it's not bad it's not necessarily feasible for them due to the constraints that game studios have (mainly strict deadlines and cert issues). By the time they would have this implemented (not physically coded, but actually in the public build) the week would be passed, so it's essentially not good use of limited dev time for this specific issue vs the other options presented (or the option they chose).

I'm also not trying to defend or excuse the buggy messes that are present - I've been pretty vocal that they need to provide more QA and testing if time between patches is going to increase due to unified build parity. I'm glad they're keeping the community informed on some of the fixes, but honestly I'd wish they'd take some time to have an entire patch just focused on long standing or game breaking bug fixes (TWW looping, Yareli in general right now with Merulina, numerous loss of functionality issues, etc.). Unfortunately, it's not the best immediate ROI, but it is important to long-term player and game health to address them.

That said, I do understand that has its own challenges - having to unit test all 52 frames with 1000s of mods interactions (not even including decrees, arcanes, ability buffs, etc.) and like 500 weapons is not really feasible at scale, and one change in a later patch can break something that was working prior (which means ideally they'd want to test everything every mainline update to detect that). There's so many mechanics and systems in this game now that every time they introduce a new one it feels destined to break functionality somewhere. That doesn't mean they shouldn't try though, and there's definitely no shortage of bugs or reports that they could start to address. I don't believe any dev team actively wants to sabotage themselves or their player base, but rather it's usually some constraint (time or prioritization of other content is common) that prevents them from doing everything they'd like.

They definitely need to reassess their workflow internally to avoid constant buggy releases or some negative feedback loop occurs; no update will be free from bugs (nor should anyone have that expectation of a perfect build), but there's a certain threshold of tolerance for them and when there's a large amount of them they can affect player gameplay experiences negatively.

I agree with lot you've said. To me it seems as though DE has become more and more content in releasing updates that have blatant bugs and their responses to these bugs, or buggy releases, have been underwhelming to say the least. This latest bug is just another example of this. 

I try to shy away from discussing what is realistic, or what is feasible, as the criteria for what is realistic/feasible is extremely subjective. Some devs would not consider it feasible to release an update that has blatant bugs and unfinished assets, while other devs would not consider it feasible to delay release in order for said bug to be addressed.   

I'd hope they'd reassess their workflow, but a part of me fears they already have and determined that greater profit margins lie with the buggy releases, at least in the short term, in spite of negative sentiment that may result. Corner cutting seems to be becoming part of DE's MO and it has bled into various departments in this game. Their criteria for what is feasible and what is acceptable has decreased in standard to such an extent I have lost faith in DE and it appears they have lost their pride and passion for Warframe. 

[Mr.Holyroller]

13 hours ago, SocccPrime said:

so those people that did still have issues are somehow discredited or discounted? As someone who was doing steel path week one, and the various weeks after you're absolutely coping that issues didn't exist because there were multiple hotfixes immediately that discredit your thought process. Also they weren't minor, connection issues, duviri defense objectives instantly deleting, run ending softlocks all existed during week one.  

 

Because what you're looking at in a vacuum is the week itself and not how many weeks have to pass for a rotation to return. Its 6 weeks worth of weapons so at minimum a month and a half for stuff to return. Add on any bugs or extensions and that gets extended further. So for that to be extended further is frustrating because unlike the people who get to enjoy doubling up on stuff they want we get to wait.   

3. Bugs on the release are to be expected, but there's a difference between the occasional errors you can get around and stuff that soft locks your experience or straight-up ends your runs.   Those are things that a significant amount of players on the forum excuse under the pretense of "its hard to be a developer you do not know how it is", but for me that's just a cop-out to excuse the lack of care that goes into Q&A testing for things that shouldn't ever enter the live realm or be patched immediately.  And that's not speaking to the smaller issues, just the ones that are noticeable to the average player who opens the game and tries to experience it.  I don't care about earlier updates being buggier, it's great that they are getting better at testing things.  I've seen and witnessed significant patches and thats not something I ignore either.  What I care more about is maintaining the expectation that major issues like this don't crop up in the future through proper rollouts.  End of the day, there's no use crying over spilled milk and I only engaged to express my frustrations because its a public forum and I'm equally entitled to as much as you are to be here.  

It's a vacuum either way. For every person that can come on the forums and say the game was/is unplayable there's people who didn't have that experience at all.

It's not about discrediting anyone. It's about the people having issues acting like it's the only experience all players are having. 

It's extremely self-centered to think that everything you experience is everyone else's lived experience

[Pizzarugi]

On 2023-06-05 at 12:25 PM, Thosha said:

"Be a professional victim on twitter"

Conversely, be a professional white knight on the Warframe forums I guess.

[Nekomian]

7 hours ago, Cerikus said:

DE must "convince you" to play the game, stay and spend money, which you never have to actually do. It's kinda different. Warframe is a live-service f2p game. It MUST produce new content and DE cannot stagger development too much, because otherwise it's a big problem. If this game wasn't releaseing updates often, it would fail.

So I like this statement here, because it's accurate about live-service games' content cycles but also highlights that key point: DE is trying to keep players engaged, so that they might spend money on stuff like cosmetics to further development. The problem is more of a balancing act - they need to release content updates regularly to keep things fresh, but also they cannot focus solely on this and not on bug fixes as players will become increasingly frustrated and leave / not spend money. Right now, I think the sentiments people feel are that they're focusing too much on the content updates and not enough on the fixing, resulting in the many posts I keep seeing about loss of progress rewards from circuit / experience and other issues (which just results in their support staff being flooded with missing end of mission rewards tickets tbh).

There's no one solution to this problem and it's not unique to Warframe whatsoever (the sims 4 community also has this issue with constant buggy new packs that go unresolved for years, though it's not quite as "live service" since it's paid DLC access); that said, without adjustments to their current workflow or model, this will continue to be the sentiments people feel. I can't truly speak for their dev cycle as I don't work there, but it feels like their team releases content, fixes release bugs, and repeats ad nauseum; if things break between hotfixes they may end up in a state of JIRA purgatory due to priority levels, known but never addressed due to development constraints.

Many people have suggested they delay content to better balance this cycle, but as stated they need to constantly be producing new things for players to be engaged. I'm of the mindset that if they don't already have this, they need some team solely dedicated to fixing bugs, separate from the one that integrates or designs new content. There might be some overlap between teams, but there's no shortage of old issues completely isolated or unrelated to any of the new systems, and it would really be a breath of fresh air to have consistent bug fixes for not just the most recently released (or what they could reasonably get to) content.

[Cerikus]

54 minutes ago, Naroxas44 said:

Right now, I think the sentiments people feel are that they're focusing too much on the content updates and not enough on the fixing, resulting in the many posts I keep seeing about loss of progress rewards from circuit / experience and other issues (which just results in their support staff being flooded with missing end of mission rewards tickets tbh).

And I totally get that. I understand why people feel that way. The thing that's kinda up for a debate is whether it's really true.

Nobody likes bugs and there is a lot of bugs, but maaan... people probably forgot what used to be the standard in the past or just simply weren't here... Do people remember 2019. That was rough... Do people not remember all the bugs and issues of Plains of eidolon on release? Did people completely forget the mess Railjack was and Scarlet spear?

Why I am not on board with the hate train is simply that I remember. I know it's probably not a good argument, but the narrative "DE don't care anymore" is simply not true.

[Nekomian]

2 hours ago, Cerikus said:

Why I am not on board with the hate train is simply that I remember. I know it's probably not a good argument, but the narrative "DE don't care anymore" is simply not true.

I don't disagree with that, I think they're trying their best (I've said previously somewhere, I don't think any game devs intentionally want to make bad or buggy games) but there's issues with their current workflow that are causing a lot of negative experiences as a result. I'm not encouraging any hatred either, but rather constructive feedback or responses that might highlight the issues with how things are currently going (and what could improve going forward).

Railjack was far, far buggier on release from what I remember, but they also quickly patched most of the critical bugs on PC. Empyrean dropped 12/13/2019 and they hotfixed 9 times within 8 days to fix the majority of critical bugs (crashes, progression issues, etc.). For Duviri, we've had a slower rollout of fixes, with more "known issue, fixed later" bugs in the patch notes I've noticed. This is likely because the more egregious bugs need to be fixed from a coding perspective, and they'd prefer to push them all out at once in a cert build (which wasn't really an issue on PC in 2019). Problem is, it's resulting in major game breaking issues persisting in the current build, even if they've been fixed for weeks in a dev build. I'm seeing the exact same posts over and over (I'm seeing about 30 posts all related to functionality loss from circuit host migrations or experience resulting in missing rewards in the past 3 weeks just in PC Bugs, and I've seen like 15 related to Yareli / Merulina loss of functionality in the past month or so). One person even claims they've had circuit break on them 80 times, so I can understand the frustration.

I think they need to re-plan and approach how they're fixing bugs and releasing in regards to cert builds if the time between them is going to become prolonged, as it's just causing this negative feedback loop that I'm sure no one wants.