New Kuva/Sister weapons (that aren't just adding a prefix and stats)

[Seele]

I was inspired by the recent bemoaning of Nightwave challenges involving the Lich/Sister system, which many players completed and would rather not touch again for just 1000 Nightwave standing. With the time investment and penalties associated with leaving a "nemesis" alive, the complaints are somewhat justified. So, why not add some more new weapons to the pool to entice the old standbys to engage with the content again?

While just taking Stug and increasing its numbers, having it spawn with a bonus element, and naming it "Kuva Stug" is technically enough, I think the Kuva/Tenet weapons are great opportunities to not just bring new numerical values to old favorites, but also change their playstyle (like Hind and Twin Stubba). To that end I have some suggestions, in descending order of personal desirability:

#1) Kuva Twin Marelok

You just had to be there.

(Vaykor) Marelok remains one of my favorite weapons in the whole game, and I have been waiting actual years for a dual wield variant. The Lich system looks like the perfect way to introduce a more advanced (and delightfully ridiculous) version of the lever pistol.

#2) Tenet Spectra

Adds additional beams above and below the central point of aim. Alt-fire to reorient the additional beams to the left and right instead.

Spectra (Vandal) is a cute little guy but really can't even begin to shake a stick at Gaze, Nukor, or Cycron. It would be best to focus it on slash and superlative single-target damage among secondary beam weapons.

#3) Kuva Sobek

I have a soft spot in my heart for Sobek, which was one of the first weapons I ever built.
Many Kuva weapons include an alt-fire to burst the entire remaining magazine, and that would be... a lot, given Sobek's massive capacity.
I think having Primary Fire shoot one shell as it often does, but Alt Fire firing one from each barrel (for a total of two) would give it a somewhat unique function. It wouldn't have the Archon instant-gib ability of Kuva Hek, but would instead be designed for more prolonged engagements, and be able to double-down for harder targets.

#4) Tenet Lanka

Lanka has fallen tragically far from favor, but the Sisters of Parvos could breathe new life into the old Corpus handheld railgun.
As a charge-up sniper rifle, Lanka is already distinct from its competitors. Since alt fire is used to zoom while aiming, perhaps alt fire while not aiming could have it charge up and then unleash its magazine as a concentrated and sustained laser beam to give it some close-quarters ability.

#5) Kuva Korrudo

While the Korrudo is still the newest sparring weapon, it is over 4 years old at this point, and unlike Obex, lacks an improved variant.
I'd want something truly crazy to be done with a Kuva sparring weapon, like Heavy Attack at 12x combo to 

 

I am of the mind that the best use of the Kuva/Sister system is to bring back less-than-popular older weapons with a profound, gameplay-warping new twist that helps them keep up with other modern weapons. I hope I have captured some of that design sense here, and sincerely hope to see some of my old favorites given the Kuva/Sister treatment soon.
(Incarnons are nice, but just not the same. And please, no more corrupted holokeys...)

[quxier]

4 hours ago, Seele said:

 

While the Korrudo is still the newest sparring weapon, it is over 4 years old at this point, and unlike Obex, lacks an improved variant.
I'd want something truly crazy to be done with a Kuva sparring weapon, like Heavy Attack at 12x combo to 

Melees that have projectiles on all heavies (Arum spinosa, Quassus etc)

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Melees that have projectile on just 1st heavy (tenet agendus).

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Melee that suck/push enemies on slide (Telos boltace)

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Melee that has projectile on 2nd heavy (slide heavy) - super slow (Tenet Grigori).

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Melee that requires 5x heavy attack to suck enemies on heavy (Voruna heavy blade).

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Melee that requires 12x heavy attack to have projectile (your Kuva Korudo)

 

I could add few more but you can see the pattern. The more complex mechanic is the less useful it will be. Plus, I have not mentioned other limitations (e.g. slow heavy attacks, blocking your movement etc).

Seriously, just do that "beam attack" and just scale damage with multiplier. On low multiplier it could be used to CC enemies (e.g. every hit gets enemies stunned & disarmed). At high multi (e.g. 12x) it kills enemies in range, leaving some "burning fire".

[keikogi]

5 hours ago, Seele said:

5) Kuva Korrudo

While the Korrudo is still the newest sparring weapon, it is over 4 years old at this point, and unlike Obex, lacks an improved variant.
I'd want something truly crazy to be done with a Kuva sparring weapon, like Heavy Attack at 12x combo to 

That's the best sparing weapon I ever seen 

1 hour ago, quxier said:

could add few more but you can see the pattern. The more complex mechanic is the less useful it will be. Plus, I have not mentioned other limitations (e.g. slow heavy attacks, blocking your movement etc).

It's just that de is not willing to make unreliable stuff good enought to be worth the effort. I'd this would te best charge attack on the game both voruna and kullervo would go for it 

 

[Lesharin]

I agree with the marelok being one of my favorite secondaries in the game as well, would love to see it get a dual kuva version, it would be even better if it was the rocket launching variants of the kuva shield Lancers, I hope the marelok at least gets an incarnon on one day

[(XBOX)O37GEKKO]

14 hours ago, Seele said:

Kuva Korrudo

i can see your idea more likely to translate into an incarnon form korrudo...

they're already running 200% reds and hit like a truck... a kuva variant would just nerf the disposition and the korrudo are great how they are.

also, korrudo are kinda hard to get, really low drop rate on domas... if a better kuva variant was more accessible through liches, they'd lose their exclusivity. 

[Seele]

5 hours ago, (XBOX)O37GEKKO said:

i can see your idea more likely to translate into an incarnon form korrudo...

they're already running 200% reds and hit like a truck... a kuva variant would just nerf the disposition and the korrudo are great how they are.

also, korrudo are kinda hard to get, really low drop rate on domas... if a better kuva variant was more accessible through liches, they'd lose their exclusivity. 

-A theoretical Kuva Korrudo's disposition would be independent of Korrudo, as that is how riven disposition works. If anything it would increase the disposition of base Korrudo as its usage stats went down. Or it would, if it could increase, it's already at 1.35x. I also cannot tell you a single time I have seen someone else using Korrudo, it can't be terribly popular.

-Nothing is reserved to exclusivity in this game except Excalibur Prime, Lato Prime, Skana Prime, and Excalibur Umbra Prime.

-We already see countless Prime Warframes who are substantially easier to obtain than their base versions, Wraith variants that are tradeable and therefore potentially easier to obtain than base versions, etc. It's certainly nothing new for a low drop rate item to get an upgraded variant that is more easily/consistently obtained.

[(PSN)Tomplexthis]

Kuva stug

Kuva gorgon

Kuva grakata

Tenet glaxion

Tenet vandal

Tenet dera.

 

Or add infested liches

Maybe add puncture. Slash. Gas viral. Corrosive. Blast

 

[Seele]

On 2023-07-15 at 6:00 AM, (PSN)Tomplexthis said:

Kuva stug

Kuva gorgon

Kuva grakata

Tenet glaxion

Tenet vandal

Tenet dera.

 

Or add infested liches

Maybe add puncture. Slash. Gas viral. Corrosive. Blast

 

I do think Stug could use some love but had no great ideas for an upgraded variant. Also not confident it counts as Grineer.

Gorgon has two enhanced variants, prisma is quite powerful and it has an Incarnon on the way. As iconic as Gorgon (and Grakata) are to the Grineer, they have enough going for them, I feel.

Glaxion I considered as well, but it does have a Prisma and I have never found it to be especially fun to play. Not sure what new space they could explore with a Tenet Glaxion.

Not sure what a Tenet Vandal would be. Vandal is another prefix. Did you mean Tenet Supra? Supra Vandal is rather good, but I would enjoy a Tenet version if they thought of a meaningful change for it.

Dera also has an enhanced variant available, though it is not exceptional and could certainly use something new going for it, but again I myself was short on ideas, and so did not suggest one.

Infested Nemeses are an interesting concept and I'd be surprised if there weren't already designs in the works for them.

[(XBOX)O37GEKKO]

Kuva AkStug

[Xbalanque84]

What about an atlatl/spearthrower of some sort? Maybe with the javelins held in the free hand? The simplicity of such tech strikes me as something the Grineer might use. Alternatively, it could use mechanics similar to the throwing secondary fire of spearguns.

 

Edit: What about a Tenet Serro?

 

Edit 2: What about a Kuva Sheev? And given that the Sheev is based on Peruvian tumi knives, what about something based on Andean-style maces? In particular, the design of Moche maces/warclubs come to mind:

Spoiler

ori_2319_666332128_1152405_IMG_20160328_204634.jpg (1233×735) (antiques.com)

As you can see, this type of mace would work well in the sword and shield category, though thematic fidelity would likely dictate that the hand shield be relatively small. The shape of these warclubs also resonates with the general aesthetic of the Grineer.

 

Slightly off-topic, much as I love DE for adding a tumi to the game, the Sheev is held incorrectly in-game. IRL, tumis were generally held with the crescent blade pointing down, opposite the thumb. In their capacity as sacrificial knives, the finishing move usually entailed holding the blade next to the neck and dragging it laterally across the throat.

Spoiler

Moche-decapitator-god-618262320.jpg (1006×1024) (lookatsouthamerica.com)

(Incidentally, while this painting recreates Moche sacrifice, the inset photo is a tumi made by the later Sican-Lambayeque culture.)

 

Edited July 26, 2023 by Xbalanque84
New ideas

[Seele]

On 2023-07-25 at 11:31 AM, Xbalanque84 said:

What about an atlatl/spearthrower of some sort? Maybe with the javelins held in the free hand? The simplicity of such tech strikes me as something the Grineer might use. Alternatively, it could use mechanics similar to the throwing secondary fire of spearguns.

 

Edit: What about a Tenet Serro?

 

Edit 2: What about a Kuva Sheev? And given that the Sheev is based on Peruvian tumi knives, what about something based on Andean-style maces? In particular, the design of Moche maces/warclubs come to mind:

A Kuva Javlok that works like you describe here would be interesting. Truth be told, while I was reviewing the list of Grineer weapons to find ones lacking souped-up variants, Javlok crossed my eyes. I tried to think of a fun new twist they could introduce to speargun gameplay, but came up short. Spearguns are a cool concept, but I've never found them especially fun in practice myself.

Of the two, I think I would prefer a Javlok to a Serro, but so long as they innovated on the current speargun gameplay I would be happy!

Sheev is another interesting consideration. It's always baffled me that such a largely unappealing weapon was, for so long, impossible or near-impossible to obtain. It could definitely use some love, and all these references you've added are fascinating.

[Xbalanque84]

9 minutes ago, Seele said:

A Kuva Javlok that works like you describe here would be interesting. Truth be told, while I was reviewing the list of Grineer weapons to find ones lacking souped-up variants, Javlok crossed my eyes. I tried to think of a fun new twist they could introduce to speargun gameplay, but came up short. Spearguns are a cool concept, but I've never found them especially fun in practice myself.

Of the two, I think I would prefer a Javlok to a Serro, but so long as they innovated on the current speargun gameplay I would be happy!

Sheev is another interesting consideration. It's always baffled me that such a largely unappealing weapon was, for so long, impossible or near-impossible to obtain. It could definitely use some love, and all these references you've added are fascinating.

Yeah, I could see a Kuva Javlok. That said, I'm sick to death of bows in everything in general, and would like to see atlatls get some love too :P

I brought up the Serro because it was one of the first weps I made when I was starting out... only to almost immediately scrap it because of how disappointing it was. Given how DE is clearly trying to increase usage/late game viability of early-game mastery fodder with incarnons and kuva/tenet weps, Serro seems like an obvious next move in the event they add something to the tenet roster.

My pleasure. I've been interested in Precolumbian civilizations and cultures since I was a kid (mostly Mesoamerican and the Andean regions), and it saddens me that such cultures receive such little attention. Granted, there are historical reasons for that; in the Andes for example, the closest thing to a writing system that developed were quipu, arrays of knotted string in which complex information was coded based on weave, weft, turn direction, dyes, patterns, etc. As such, I actually did a double-take when I first saw them add the Sheev. Sadly, as I said, they're holding it wrong in-game (to say nothing of the lackluster base stats).

No input though on a possible Moche-style warclub? Like I said, they fit the Grineer aesthetic; Hell, they look like Lech Kril's head.

[Seele]

4 hours ago, Xbalanque84 said:

Yeah, I could see a Kuva Javlok. That said, I'm sick to death of bows in everything in general, and would like to see atlatls get some love too :P

Javlok is a speargun, not a bow! To my knowledge the only Grineer bow is Kuva Bramma.

4 hours ago, Xbalanque84 said:

No input though on a possible Moche-style warclub? Like I said, they fit the Grineer aesthetic; Hell, they look like Lech Kril's head.

I think they're really cool, and do fit the world! But, this thread is about revitalizing some old favorites rather than introducing new weapons. We do have a decent amount of Kuva/Tenet weapons with no "base form" counterpart, so we could absolutely get a Kuva (Grineer warclub name); why not start your own thread suggesting it?

[Fred_Avant_2019]

Kuva Quad Grakata or go home.

(Dead serious btw, sufficient amount of headshots when you're reloading would manifest extra grakatas spawning from the void)

Edited July 27, 2023 by Fred_Avant_2019

[Azchenon]

I just want a tenet convectrix, ideally faster to reach the middle, better ammo economy, and better crit. Or something. Just something to make it neat, please, I love the convectrix. Also a tenet stahlta...?

Or tenet Athodai, and Kuva buzzlok

[Els236]

Kuva Grinlok would be the only weapon they could possibly release that I'd have any interest in putting 5 Forma on to rank it up.

Otherwise, unless they are absolutely busted compared to their OG counterparts (meaning actually usable), not many would ever bother to max them out. 

[(PSN)chris1pat8twins]

The idea for Kuva Korrudo gives off more Tenet Staticor vibes. Where pressing Alt. Fire makes it charge all the ammo clip into the massive beam that also has a much wider explosive radius. 

[HasagiReportJngl]

How about Kuva Kulstar? The common Kulstar have got interesting mechanics but poor stats make it trash.